Changeup

Hi 3B:

My son is 11YO, and he has pitched and received pitching instruction for over two years now. He can locate his two-seams and four-seams well - he no longer worries about the ability to throw a strike. His mechanics are smooth and a number of coaches have commented about them. As the curve is not an option for quite awhile, we have taken the approach this year to work on his change-up.

His instructor is now sort of semi-retired but has trained him at various times since he was 7 YO. So, we are about 5 half hour lessons into this year...

To answer your question, he throws a circle change (last year he threw circle and then had a coach who wanted a friction change). We have treated things as if all is brand new. The guts of what we have learned can be found in most books. Here are some things I recall from the past few weeks:

From a number of counts, we have heard to drop the speed about 10% (about 5-6 mph in my son's case). The ball should be thrown to just upset the batters timing. If that were the case, you should be dropping 7 mph.

As I'm sure you know, the mechanics for the Change Up should be the same as the fastball - hard to achieve I would guess if you're taking to much off.

The ball should be out in the four fingers but make contact with the palm at the base of the fingers. Apparently, many players keep the ball too deep in the palm - as my son did last year.

The thumb should rest where it is most comfortable. In the past, my son was worried about the formation of a circle around the side of the ball using the thumb. We were instructed to get the ball comfortable in the four fingers and let the thumb go where it feels good. The trainer does not even contact the ball with the thumb when he throws it - it's a four finger throw.

For a couple of weeks it was difficult - the ball would squirt all over the place (I think we were getting one strike in five or six pitches). Much of this was due to the fact that my son was adjusting his mechanics - it's hard for an 11YO to get the concept of 10%. He was hunching a bit... then guiding too much... taking too much off... not extending to the target enough with the throwing arm.

Much of the correction resulted from just standing up and throwing the ball back and forth using the grip. Not too much thinking about it, just getting the grip and throwing. As well, we started throwing the ball back and forth from the knees.

Tonight is the first night where he has begun to get it (he had been holding the ball a little too far out in the fingers). During lessons, I normally catch for him, allowing maximum time for him with the instructor. He threw a steady stream altering between fastball and change-up with a decent strike count (about 70% on the Change Up).

This weekend, he will start two innings in an exhibition game against a good team - and he will get the chance to use it with a bit of strategy. He needs to flip the ball around a bit on the sofa at home getting used to moving between grips without looking.

He left the lesson today pretty confident - it will be great if he has a good day on the weekend.


Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by Notlongtilicantcatchim:

As I'm sure you know, the mechanics for the Change Up should be the same as the fastball - hard to achieve I would guess if you're taking to much off.
..Much of this was due to the fact that my son was adjusting his mechanics - it's hard for an 11YO to get the concept of 10%. He was hunching a bit... then guiding too much... taking too much off... not extending to the target enough with the throwing arm.

Why would you worry about how much you take off?

You should throw it with the same arm speed and angle, allowing the grip to provide the change in speed.

redbird is correct. Change nothing but the grip.

I would say that about 10-12 mph off your fastball is just fine.

I would not recommend pushing the ball down in the palm. It isn't necessary.

You can throw the circle change or three finger change. It really doesn't matter. Find out which works best for you.

circle change.
it's about 10-12 difference than my fastball.
I locate it pretty well, and as a LHP, can turn it over a little bit for some tail/run.

Hi Folks:

Sorry about that... I wrote that like he was trying to achieve a speed that was 10% less. It was actually explained to us the way you have described it; Regular mechanics with Changeup grip. The speed becomes whatever it becomes and it was said to be typically a 10% drop.

In describing the grip itself, I didnt say it was deep in the palm - I was trying to say that the ball still made some contact where the fingers join the palm. Prior to that my son had been holding the ball out in the fingers.

Cheers

A side note to throwing the change
When you locate it, focus on hitting your catcher's shoe, as opposed to a spot on his knee...
This is so you keep the changeup down, if you focus on the shoe, it ends up at the knees

Thats what Glavine says

quote:

Originally posted by 3bpitcher:
I was just wondering what kind of changeup everybody threw and how many mph difference there was between it and your fastball. I throw a circle changeup and on a good day it is about 12 mph less. I throw high 70s. Also, how effective is it? How often can you get it in for strikes?

Never trust absolute MPH differences.

The best pitchers (e.g. Greg Maddux) have an 8-10 PERCENT (not MPH) difference between their FB and their CU. It's important that you think in terms of PERCENT and not MPH.

A CU that's 10 percent slower than one's fastball is fast enough to not obviously be a change-up but still slow enough to screw up a hitter's timing.

My 13 year old son throws his change up similar to a knuckleball. Except that instead of a pushing motion from his hand he rolls his hand on top of the ball creating a front spin. The ball just seems to tumble towards the hitter with the bottom falling out at the plate.

quote:

Originally posted by craftylefty:
My 13 year old son throws his change up similar to a knuckleball. Except that instead of a pushing motion from his hand he rolls his hand on top of the ball creating a front spin. The ball just seems to tumble towards the hitter with the bottom falling out at the plate.

That would make it a curveball, which means it may not be a safe pitch to throw at that age.

Thanks guys. All of this info is great. I have really been working on my change up lately and today my fastall was 72 and my change up was 55. Now i know the pain guy said not to trust absolute mph differences but i think that is enough. I mean I dont have an overpowering fastball by any means and my changeup is going to be my out pitch.

quote:

Originally posted by 3bpitcher:
Thanks guys. All of this info is great. I have really been working on my change up lately and today my fastall was 72 and my change up was 55. Now i know the pain guy said not to trust absolute mph differences but i think that is enough. I mean I dont have an overpowering fastball by any means and my changeup is going to be my out pitch.

If people start creaming your CU, then it's probably coming in too slow. If I were you, and my FB came in at 72 MPH, I would throw my CU 65 MPH rather than 55 MPH (unless your CU has tremendous down and in break).

My changeup is sort of interesting in that it goes down and away to a righty. I am a right handed pitcher and it acts sort of like a curve ball. My coach said it is unlike anything he has ever seen.