I know there are benefits to choking up. I am trying to get my HS to understand this.
Can anyone help with the pros and cons of choking up.
Also, can anyone give me any links to articles on choking up.
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I am not a fan. Choking up changes the weight and length of the bat, which that batter has become comfortable with through repetition. There's a difference between shortening a swing and shortening a bat. I don't see any benefit whatsoever in altering what a batter is used to.
If a batter chokes up on every pitch, then that's fine. As long as its consistent. But a "two-strike approach" does not consist of changing the length and weight of the bat. That can't be beneficial.
If a batter chokes up on every pitch, then that's fine. As long as its consistent. But a "two-strike approach" does not consist of changing the length and weight of the bat. That can't be beneficial.
If you choke up 2 inches, now the bat is 2 inches shorter.
If my pitcher son (just using him as an example) sees a kid choking up, the next pitch is low and outside for an easy out.
If my pitcher son (just using him as an example) sees a kid choking up, the next pitch is low and outside for an easy out.
quote:Originally posted by J H:
I am not a fan. Choking up changes the weight and length of the bat, which that batter has become comfortable with through repetition. There's a difference between shortening a swing and shortening a bat. I don't see any benefit whatsoever in altering what a batter is used to.
If a batter chokes up on every pitch, then that's fine. As long as its consistent. But a "two-strike approach" does not consist of changing the length and weight of the bat. That can't be beneficial.
It doesn’t change the “weight” of the bat. It changes the “feel” of the bat. By moving the hands close to the balance point, it effectively makes the bat lighter and easier to control. Combined with a shorter swing, the thought is putting the ball in play anywhere weakly is far preferable to a strike out.
I'm not a huge fan either. Shorten the swing and put the ball in play I totally agree with. Saw one of my son's teammates choke up yesterday 2 inches on a 32 inch bat. SultanofSwats son must have been pitching because both pitches were low and away and resulted in K's.
quote:Originally posted by KC Dawg:
I'm not a huge fan either. Shorten the swing and put the ball in play I totally agree with. Saw one of my son's teammates choke up yesterday 2 inches on a 32 inch bat. SultanofSwats son must have been pitching because both pitches were low and away and resulted in K's.
Are you implying that the only reason the batter struck out was because his bat was 2 inches too short.
quote:Originally posted by 2bag:
I know there are benefits to choking up. I am trying to get my HS to understand this.
Can anyone help with the pros and cons of choking up.
Also, can anyone give me any links to articles on choking up.
Well, let me try to help out.
Pros: More control, slightly smaller diameter of stroke.
Cons: Less power, less plate coverage.
IMO, good arguments for both sides.
quote:Originally posted by Low Finish:quote:Originally posted by 2bag:
I know there are benefits to choking up. I am trying to get my HS to understand this.
Can anyone help with the pros and cons of choking up.
Also, can anyone give me any links to articles on choking up.
Well, let me try to help out.
Pros: More control, slightly smaller diameter of stroke.
Cons: Less power, less plate coverage.
IMO, good arguments for both sides.
+1
Question: if you normally use a 32" bat and decide to "choke up"
then use a 33" bat and you will have larger hitting space on the barrel.
Bonds of course "choke up" the bat. I have the Bonds model at my home and the handle and knob have a cone which aids in "choking the bat".
The reason to choke the bat is to increase "bat speed" and not hit "weak" grounders. If you want to play "pepper" do this before the game.
As a coach, I prefer a strike out with a hard swing than a weak grounder which can produce a double play.
Bob
then use a 33" bat and you will have larger hitting space on the barrel.
Bonds of course "choke up" the bat. I have the Bonds model at my home and the handle and knob have a cone which aids in "choking the bat".
The reason to choke the bat is to increase "bat speed" and not hit "weak" grounders. If you want to play "pepper" do this before the game.
As a coach, I prefer a strike out with a hard swing than a weak grounder which can produce a double play.
Bob
Bonds choked up on every single pitch. There is absolutely no problem with that. It is when you start changing the feel of the bat that you have a problem. Consistency in grip should be prevalent each and every pitch.
If a player can't "catch up" to a fastball then there aren't a lot of "good" options besides choking up and shortening the bat.
The idea that it effects you hitting the low outside pitch is perposturus...more than likely it's a bad hitter that couldn't hit with any bat.
I do agree that hitters should practice their 2 k approach in batting practice and drills as it is a situation they will face in over 30% of their at-bats.
The idea that it effects you hitting the low outside pitch is perposturus...more than likely it's a bad hitter that couldn't hit with any bat.
I do agree that hitters should practice their 2 k approach in batting practice and drills as it is a situation they will face in over 30% of their at-bats.
quote:Originally posted by bsballfan:
If a player can't "catch up" to a fastball then there aren't a lot of "good" options besides choking up and shortening the bat.
The idea that it effects you hitting the low outside pitch is perposturus...more than likely it's a bad hitter that couldn't hit with any bat.
I do agree that hitters should practice their 2 k approach in batting practice and drills as it is a situation they will face in over 30% of their at-bats.
Short term, there aren't many options to help a player catch up with a fastball. Long term, if you can't catch up with a fastball, you need to change your mechanics.
It does hinder hitting the low outside pitch. Williams choked up an inch on his bat. His worst hitting zone? The low, outside pitch.
As a hitter who doesn't choke up, I'd say that choking up does affect your ability to hit the low and away pitch. Be it physically or psychologically, choking up affects your approach. Obviously, if your approach with two strikes is choke up and put it in play, you may accomplish hitting the low and away pitch by moving closer to the plate than you were early in the count. Something to ponder.
Since 70% of the pitchers are right handed and the two hitters were left handed, the hitters *Williams and Bonds] had the advantage.
Williams stood "off" the plate to get a longer look at the ball, Bonds crowded the plate, because the "scouting" book on Bonds was "up and in", however both had 20/15 vision and if the pitcher missed by 1", it was the game.
"Low and away" for right handed hitters from RHP is the method taught by pitching coaches, however "crowding" the plate does not help.
If a pitcher can place it on the outside corner "shake" his hand and ask him to do it again. Do not give up on the inside, that is RBI's.
Only don't miss when you receive a .400 BA pitch. Be ready!
The "batters box" is your classroom.
Judge the pitch and change your position relative to the speed, sink, break.
All pitchers throw in patterns and good hitters know they cannot hit all pitch's, so they wait and narrow down to one or two pitches in a specific location.
This is a "logical" guess hitters. My teacher was Edgar Martinez, Mariners
in a one hour "one on one"discussion.
Bob
Williams stood "off" the plate to get a longer look at the ball, Bonds crowded the plate, because the "scouting" book on Bonds was "up and in", however both had 20/15 vision and if the pitcher missed by 1", it was the game.
"Low and away" for right handed hitters from RHP is the method taught by pitching coaches, however "crowding" the plate does not help.
If a pitcher can place it on the outside corner "shake" his hand and ask him to do it again. Do not give up on the inside, that is RBI's.
Only don't miss when you receive a .400 BA pitch. Be ready!
The "batters box" is your classroom.
Judge the pitch and change your position relative to the speed, sink, break.
All pitchers throw in patterns and good hitters know they cannot hit all pitch's, so they wait and narrow down to one or two pitches in a specific location.
This is a "logical" guess hitters. My teacher was Edgar Martinez, Mariners
in a one hour "one on one"discussion.
Bob
quote:Originally posted by Low Finish:quote:Originally posted by bsballfan:
If a player can't "catch up" to a fastball then there aren't a lot of "good" options besides choking up and shortening the bat.
The idea that it effects you hitting the low outside pitch is perposturus...more than likely it's a bad hitter that couldn't hit with any bat.
I do agree that hitters should practice their 2 k approach in batting practice and drills as it is a situation they will face in over 30% of their at-bats.
Short term, there aren't many options to help a player catch up with a fastball. Long term, if you can't catch up with a fastball, you need to change your mechanics.
It does hinder hitting the low outside pitch. Williams choked up an inch on his bat. His worst hitting zone? The low, outside pitch.
And you are sure that choking up is why he struggled with that pitch?
Tony Gwynn choked up and that was his best "hitting zone"
quote:Originally posted by Bob Williams:
Since 70% of the pitchers are right handed and the two hitters were left handed, the hitters *Williams and Bonds] had the advantage.
Williams stood "off" the plate to get a longer look at the ball, Bonds crowded the plate, because the "scouting" book on Bonds was "up and in", however both had 20/15 vision and if the pitcher missed by 1", it was the game.
"Low and away" for right handed hitters from RHP is the method taught by pitching coaches, however "crowding" the plate does not help.
If a pitcher can place it on the outside corner "shake" his hand and ask him to do it again. Do not give up on the inside, that is RBI's.
Only don't miss when you receive a .400 BA pitch. Be ready!
The "batters box" is your classroom.
Judge the pitch and change your position relative to the speed, sink, break.
All pitchers throw in patterns and good hitters know they cannot hit all pitch's, so they wait and narrow down to one or two pitches in a specific location.
This is a "logical" guess hitters. My teacher was Edgar Martinez, Mariners
in a one hour "one on one"discussion.
Bob
Good stuff, sounds a lot like what Ted Williams advocated for when he said "Guess? YES!"
Aaron and Clemente often swung at a "low and away"pitch so they would get it again. They were ready and hit it to right center.
Larry Young, Delmon's father called me from the Fall Arizona league after Delmon signed his bonus contract.
Larry told a story of the game that day,Delmon, age 18 swung at a bad pitch and the pitcher threw the same pitch. Next pitch, Delmon hit it off the right center field fence.
During our annual Goodwill Series in Australia, I listened to Delmon, then age 15 tell the two hitters batting ahead of him what to expect from the Australian pitcher.
This is "logical" guessing.
"Can we teach" this or is a hitter born with this ability. I do not know. Ted Williams called it "proper thinking".
Bob
Larry Young, Delmon's father called me from the Fall Arizona league after Delmon signed his bonus contract.
Larry told a story of the game that day,Delmon, age 18 swung at a bad pitch and the pitcher threw the same pitch. Next pitch, Delmon hit it off the right center field fence.
During our annual Goodwill Series in Australia, I listened to Delmon, then age 15 tell the two hitters batting ahead of him what to expect from the Australian pitcher.
This is "logical" guessing.
"Can we teach" this or is a hitter born with this ability. I do not know. Ted Williams called it "proper thinking".
Bob
quote:Originally posted by Bob Williams:
…"Can we teach" this or is a hitter born with this ability. I do not know. Ted Williams called it "proper thinking".
Do you really believe it’s a genetic trait that some people have and others don’t, and those that don’t have no hope of ever acquiring the ability?
As a hitter, I would walk into a ball park and check the wind, the distances to the fences, the height of the mound, the holes in the batter's box, the location of the sun.
Before the game I watched the opposing pitcher in the bullpen. What is his arm angle for the curve, fast ball. Is he locating the 3 pitches for strikes, if not, I reduced the pitcher to one pitch which he has confidence for the initial innings.
When he pitched to our first hitters what is his pattern? Did our hitters hit ground balls, then the pitcher has a "sinker". Sinkers and sliders are his pitches. If the pitcher has a "rising" fastball, then his breaking ball is a "hard" curve.
Yes, a hitter can learn by study and concentration on his role. "What is the hitter's role?
"To see the ball". If he sees the ball, he can hit it!
George Brett called it "fine focus".
Bob
Before the game I watched the opposing pitcher in the bullpen. What is his arm angle for the curve, fast ball. Is he locating the 3 pitches for strikes, if not, I reduced the pitcher to one pitch which he has confidence for the initial innings.
When he pitched to our first hitters what is his pattern? Did our hitters hit ground balls, then the pitcher has a "sinker". Sinkers and sliders are his pitches. If the pitcher has a "rising" fastball, then his breaking ball is a "hard" curve.
Yes, a hitter can learn by study and concentration on his role. "What is the hitter's role?
"To see the ball". If he sees the ball, he can hit it!
George Brett called it "fine focus".
Bob
quote:Originally posted by Bob Williams:
…Yes, a hitter can learn by study and concentration on his role....
If that’s true, what difference does it make if it’s a genetic trait or not? Having something be easier to acquire because of genetics shouldn’t make the assumption be that having the genetic trait makes them more likely to perform better.
quote:Originally posted by Stats4Gnats:quote:Originally posted by Bob Williams:
…Yes, a hitter can learn by study and concentration on his role....
If that’s true, what difference does it make if it’s a genetic trait or not? Having something be easier to acquire because of genetics shouldn’t make the assumption be that having the genetic trait makes them more likely to perform better.
Can "all kids" learn math? sure....do they no.
Can "all kids" learn to study pitchers and learn to "guess properly"? sure....do they no.
quote:Originally posted by Stats4Gnats:
Are you implying that the only reason the batter struck out was because his bat was 2 inches too short.
No, I was just describing what I saw. That said, I would think that a shorter bat would make it more difficult to hit the pitch on the outside corner.
Good discussion!
Pitching and hitting is like a "chest" game.
If you use a 32" then choke a 33".
Williams and Bonds both use a 34" bat.
"It is a beautiful game within the game"
Bob
PS: Tony Gwynn and Pete Rose focus on hitting the outside pitch to opposite field and the pitcher
knew this.They both adjusted
If you use a 32" then choke a 33".
Williams and Bonds both use a 34" bat.
"It is a beautiful game within the game"
Bob
PS: Tony Gwynn and Pete Rose focus on hitting the outside pitch to opposite field and the pitcher
knew this.They both adjusted
quote:Originally posted by Bob Williams:
Pitching and hitting is like a "chess" game.
If you use a 32" then choke a 33".
Williams and Bonds both use a 34" bat.
"It is a beautiful game within the game"
Bob
PS: Tony Gwynn and Pete Rose focus on hitting the outside pitch to opposite field and the pitcher
knew this.They both adjusted
I believe Williams used a 35" bat, but choked up about an inch, so you're correct.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...Vod8&feature=related
This was "Classic" Ted Williams.
His "passion", the love of the game and his single minded focus to be the best is the strongest motivator to hitting, fishing or flying a jet.
"Baseball teaches Life"!
Bob
This was "Classic" Ted Williams.
His "passion", the love of the game and his single minded focus to be the best is the strongest motivator to hitting, fishing or flying a jet.
"Baseball teaches Life"!
Bob
Choking up on a longer bat is more effective than being down at the end of a shorter bat because the part of the bat below the hands acts as a counterweight. That's the purpose of the large knob on a lot of the modern bats. There're limits though. Obviously a significantly lighter bat can be swung faster than a heavier bat even with choking up, but choking up on a 34 vs being at the end of a 33 is going to work better for most hitters. Here's a way to demonstrate the effect. Take a bat and hold it parallel to the ground with one hand at the end up the bat. Rotate the bat to vertical and back down to horizontal a few times. Not very easy. Now grab the bat well up on handle and do the same thing. Much easier because of the counterweight.
Personally, I think the mindset that one gets from choking up with 2 strikes more than offsets it being different from the previous swings but that probably varies from person to person.
In the end, it is a matter of personal preference more than anything else and being comfortable with whatever approach a hitter chooses is probably the most important thing.
Personally, I think the mindset that one gets from choking up with 2 strikes more than offsets it being different from the previous swings but that probably varies from person to person.
In the end, it is a matter of personal preference more than anything else and being comfortable with whatever approach a hitter chooses is probably the most important thing.
I hate choking up with a passion and don't teach it but if I have a kid come in who does it and does it well I'm not going to change them. A hitter should get a bat that they can handle no matter the count. If you have a bat that's so heavy you have to choke up to create bat speed then go to a lighter bat. If you have a bat that's so long you have to choke up to get better control then get a shorter bat.
At the high school level in other teams (including really good ones) the types of swings I see hitters take (in two states) with two strikes and choking up are atrocious. Vast majority of them are out in front trying to hold their hands back to make contact and then they usually hit weak balls to the IF.
If you have a bat you can handle then all you have to do is open the zone a little more and swing at more pitches on the edges. You will accomplish the exact same thing as someone who knows how to swing with a choked up bat.
I know Ted Williams did this and Barry Bonds did that but last time I checked I wasn't coaching those guys. I'm teaching a bunch of high school kids who will be done at the end of their senior year. The kid I coached who got drafted never choked up and had amazing bat control. I didn't teach him that - he already could do it when I got him.
Hitting is the most complicated easiest thing to do in sports. All you have to do is see the ball and hit the ball but when you start trying to get your body to do it right is when it gets all messed up. So why add another-ish type of swing to it by choking up? Keep the overall swing the same and have them extend the zone.
Go ahead blast away because this is the hitting forum and I just spoke blasephmy.
At the high school level in other teams (including really good ones) the types of swings I see hitters take (in two states) with two strikes and choking up are atrocious. Vast majority of them are out in front trying to hold their hands back to make contact and then they usually hit weak balls to the IF.
If you have a bat you can handle then all you have to do is open the zone a little more and swing at more pitches on the edges. You will accomplish the exact same thing as someone who knows how to swing with a choked up bat.
I know Ted Williams did this and Barry Bonds did that but last time I checked I wasn't coaching those guys. I'm teaching a bunch of high school kids who will be done at the end of their senior year. The kid I coached who got drafted never choked up and had amazing bat control. I didn't teach him that - he already could do it when I got him.
Hitting is the most complicated easiest thing to do in sports. All you have to do is see the ball and hit the ball but when you start trying to get your body to do it right is when it gets all messed up. So why add another-ish type of swing to it by choking up? Keep the overall swing the same and have them extend the zone.
Go ahead blast away because this is the hitting forum and I just spoke blasephmy.
quote:Originally posted by coach2709:
I hate choking up with a passion and don't teach it but if I have a kid come in who does it and does it well I'm not going to change them. A hitter should get a bat that they can handle no matter the count. If you have a bat that's so heavy you have to choke up to create bat speed then go to a lighter bat. If you have a bat that's so long you have to choke up to get better control then get a shorter bat.
At the high school level in other teams (including really good ones) the types of swings I see hitters take (in two states) with two strikes and choking up are atrocious. Vast majority of them are out in front trying to hold their hands back to make contact and then they usually hit weak balls to the IF.
If you have a bat you can handle then all you have to do is open the zone a little more and swing at more pitches on the edges. You will accomplish the exact same thing as someone who knows how to swing with a choked up bat.
I know Ted Williams did this and Barry Bonds did that but last time I checked I wasn't coaching those guys. I'm teaching a bunch of high school kids who will be done at the end of their senior year. The kid I coached who got drafted never choked up and had amazing bat control. I didn't teach him that - he already could do it when I got him.
Hitting is the most complicated easiest thing to do in sports. All you have to do is see the ball and hit the ball but when you start trying to get your body to do it right is when it gets all messed up. So why add another-ish type of swing to it by choking up? Keep the overall swing the same and have them extend the zone.
Go ahead blast away because this is the hitting forum and I just spoke blasphemy.
The "just make contact" philosophy with 2 strikes is ridiculous, IMO. I prefer Mickey Mantle's advice of "Swing as hard as you can at every pitch."
coach2709 - I agree that opening up the zone is key to high school ball players. Many HS level baseball players do not understand the strike zone, or its size relative to the plate. Many do not approach the plate with a game plan, what pitch to look for and when. Where to hit the ball in relation to where the infield is playing or if runners are on base.
If hitting with a purpose, having a plan before you step up to the plate, or "situational hitting" were taught properly many hitters would not fall behind in the count.
Hit the pitchers mistakes; yes it is a guess up there but make it an educated one; know what pitch you want and know when you should be seeing it; the strike zone is one ball width to the inside and one ball width to the outside of the plate. I have not seen many HS pitchers that consistently paint the inside corner. Think about this, good pitchers know the holes in most of their opponents swing - do you know the holes in the pitcher arm/pitch selection?
In short, I agree: choking up should not and would not be necessary if hitters had a plan.
If hitting with a purpose, having a plan before you step up to the plate, or "situational hitting" were taught properly many hitters would not fall behind in the count.
Hit the pitchers mistakes; yes it is a guess up there but make it an educated one; know what pitch you want and know when you should be seeing it; the strike zone is one ball width to the inside and one ball width to the outside of the plate. I have not seen many HS pitchers that consistently paint the inside corner. Think about this, good pitchers know the holes in most of their opponents swing - do you know the holes in the pitcher arm/pitch selection?
In short, I agree: choking up should not and would not be necessary if hitters had a plan.
quote:Originally posted by Low Finish:
The "just make contact" philosophy with 2 strikes is ridiculous, IMO.
I cringe when I hear that from a coach. Then I set my infield and call a low and away FB.
As with so many things in baseball, I don't feel there is one right answer for every hitter and/or every situation.
One aspect I very much agree with is the comment of bballdad2016 on having a plan for every AB. A good hitter with a good plan can have very nice results as a 2 strike hitter. I know one aspect our son practiced and now coaches is seeing every pitch by the time he got to 2 strikes. If he had seen every pitch, he was very confident with 2 strikes. If he had not, and especially had not see the opponents best pitch, hitting with 2 strikes was more difficult.
In HS and college, our son would often choke up with 2 strikes for more bat control and a shorter and more direct swing. His view was being a good 2 strike hitter often times was a mental defeat for the pitcher, especially when the hit was a mistake, or the opponents best pitch, which he had already seen in his AB.
Even choked up, he was looking to drive the ball while also looking to work to get a pitch to drive.
In a sense it would have been a waste of his hitting skills to take a Mantle approach since our son was a gap hitter, never one with power. He learned he could drive balls with 2 strikes with bat control and loved the mental edge it gave him in battling a pitcher, especially good ones.
As a college hitting coach, we could see his philosophy with nearly every hitter on his college team this year. They worked counts and most looked fearless with 2 strikes. A few at the top and bottom of the order would choke up an inch or so.
The other comments in this thread on choking up which are highly valuable, in my view, are those of Bob Williams. His experience and knowledge of the game and hitting far surpasses most.
One aspect I very much agree with is the comment of bballdad2016 on having a plan for every AB. A good hitter with a good plan can have very nice results as a 2 strike hitter. I know one aspect our son practiced and now coaches is seeing every pitch by the time he got to 2 strikes. If he had seen every pitch, he was very confident with 2 strikes. If he had not, and especially had not see the opponents best pitch, hitting with 2 strikes was more difficult.
In HS and college, our son would often choke up with 2 strikes for more bat control and a shorter and more direct swing. His view was being a good 2 strike hitter often times was a mental defeat for the pitcher, especially when the hit was a mistake, or the opponents best pitch, which he had already seen in his AB.
Even choked up, he was looking to drive the ball while also looking to work to get a pitch to drive.
In a sense it would have been a waste of his hitting skills to take a Mantle approach since our son was a gap hitter, never one with power. He learned he could drive balls with 2 strikes with bat control and loved the mental edge it gave him in battling a pitcher, especially good ones.
As a college hitting coach, we could see his philosophy with nearly every hitter on his college team this year. They worked counts and most looked fearless with 2 strikes. A few at the top and bottom of the order would choke up an inch or so.
The other comments in this thread on choking up which are highly valuable, in my view, are those of Bob Williams. His experience and knowledge of the game and hitting far surpasses most.
IMHO Hitters spend all year working on their perfect swing, why throw it out with 2 strikes?
At the minor league games I've gone to this year I don't recall seeing any batter choke up with 2 strikes. I did see several home runs hit on two strike counts as the pitchers made a location mistake and the batter put a good swing on it.
At the minor league games I've gone to this year I don't recall seeing any batter choke up with 2 strikes. I did see several home runs hit on two strike counts as the pitchers made a location mistake and the batter put a good swing on it.
As I posted before, not every hitter is the same.
And who said anything about throwing their swing and approach away with 2 strikes?
For every 2 strike mistake HR, one could probably also see a similar number(perhaps more) hitters who are completely fooled and who have a terrible swing and AB, or just swing right through the pitch or hit something someplace other than the barrel of the bat.
Not every organization has the same approach, either.
In Milb, our son's organization, like all of them, graded hitters on each AB. What was different is that organization was one of the teams which gave a higher ranking on the number of pitches per AB. If I remember right, something just under or just over 5 pitches per AB was a good grade.
And who said anything about throwing their swing and approach away with 2 strikes?
For every 2 strike mistake HR, one could probably also see a similar number(perhaps more) hitters who are completely fooled and who have a terrible swing and AB, or just swing right through the pitch or hit something someplace other than the barrel of the bat.
Not every organization has the same approach, either.
In Milb, our son's organization, like all of them, graded hitters on each AB. What was different is that organization was one of the teams which gave a higher ranking on the number of pitches per AB. If I remember right, something just under or just over 5 pitches per AB was a good grade.
quote:Originally posted by bballdad2016:quote:Originally posted by Low Finish:
The "just make contact" philosophy with 2 strikes is ridiculous, IMO.
I cringe when I hear that from a coach. Then I set my infield and call a low and away FB.
Good choice. The mental approach with 2 strikes should change. Mechanics should not, because using the "A" swing on every pitch is a good idea.
If you're not trying to hit a ball hard every pitch, then you're doing it wrong, IMO. Better to strike out swinging hard than to tap out to the second baseman.
quote:Originally posted by Low Finish:quote:Originally posted by bballdad2016:quote:Originally posted by Low Finish:
The "just make contact" philosophy with 2 strikes is ridiculous, IMO.
I cringe when I hear that from a coach. Then I set my infield and call a low and away FB.
Good choice. The mental approach with 2 strikes should change. Mechanics should not, because using the "A" swing on every pitch is a good idea.
If you're not trying to hit a ball hard every pitch, then you're doing it wrong, IMO. Better to strike out swinging hard than to tap out to the second baseman.
Would the 2 strike approach of swinging hard be the same for the #9 or #1 hitter in the line up, no outs, down by 1, top of the 9th and runner on second?
quote:Originally posted by infielddad:quote:Originally posted by Low Finish:quote:Originally posted by bballdad2016:quote:Originally posted by Low Finish:
The "just make contact" philosophy with 2 strikes is ridiculous, IMO.
I cringe when I hear that from a coach. Then I set my infield and call a low and away FB.
Good choice. The mental approach with 2 strikes should change. Mechanics should not, because using the "A" swing on every pitch is a good idea.
If you're not trying to hit a ball hard every pitch, then you're doing it wrong, IMO. Better to strike out swinging hard than to tap out to the second baseman.
Would the 2 strike approach of swinging hard be the same for the #9 or #1 hitter in the line up, no outs, down by 1, top of the 9th and runner on second?
Yes, "swinging hard" doesn't mean "hit a home run". It means hit the ball solidly.
quote:And who said anything about throwing their swing and approach away with 2 strikes?
For every 2 strike mistake HR, one could probably also see a similar number(perhaps more) hitters who are completely fooled and who have a terrible swing and AB, or just swing right through the pitch or hit something someplace other than the barrel of the bat.
Changing your grip with two strikes, i.e. choking up, in my mind is akin to changing your swing. If a player needs to choke up to defend the strike zone with 2 strikes he should consider using a smaller bat or should be choked up on every pitch to take a consistantly good swing.
Sure, players can be fooled with 2 strikes, just like they can be fooled with 1 or no strikes when they guess wrong. My point being I'd prefer most hitters to potentially take their best swing at all three strikes, not just the 1st two and I don't feel most hitters can take their best swing when they choke up with 2 strikes.
Just my opinion.
quote:Originally posted by 2bag:
I know there are benefits to choking up. I am trying to get my HS to understand this...
2bag, what benefits do you feel there are? What are you trying to get your HS to understand? Are you coaching the HS team or trying to coax the HS coaches?
quote:Originally posted by JH:
There's a difference between shortening a swing and shortening a bat.
quote:Originally posted by Stats:
It doesn’t change the “weight” of the bat. It changes the “feel” of the bat. By moving the hands close to the balance point, it effectively makes the bat lighter and easier to control.
Not sure why you make a statement like that? Obviously, the point JH was making was the effect of choking up... lighter weight, shorter length, different balance.
quote:Originally posted by Stats:
Combined with a shorter swing, the thought is putting the ball in play anywhere weakly is far preferable to a strike out.
No, the thought should be - putting the ball in play is preferable to a K. But, there should be no intention to do so weakly. You can shorten your swing and expand the zone but should still swing with the intention of driving the ball. Fight off pitches that are borderline strikes but attack balls that you can attack. The shorter swing increases odds of making contact. It does not mean hit the ball weakly.
quote:Originally posted by coach2709:
If you have a bat you can handle then all you have to do is open the zone a little more and swing at more pitches on the edges. You will accomplish the exact same thing as someone who knows how to swing with a choked up bat.
I agree with this. I also agree with the notion that it varies from player to player. The mistake I see with many players that do like to choke is this...
Most choke but don't move closer to the plate. They are behind or even in the count which increases the likelihood that P will work away. They shorten their bat an inch or so and then don't account for the necessary extra plate coverage. So, in effect, they give up more like 3-4". For some types of hitters against most pitchers, I teach to move closer to the plate with two strikes so you can cover the outer corner the P is trying to hit. If he comes in, fight it off or turn and take it for a free pass. This approach tends to make alot of P's uneasy and sort of evens the playing field when you are behind in the count.
Infielddad - all great posts.
So, for most hitters, it is appropriate to have a two-strike approach where the zone is expanded and a slightly shorter swing (same basic mechanics) is used to increase the likelihood of putting the ball in play (not weakly) and decreasing the odds of the K.
Regarding OP, this can include choking but shouldn't be necessary, depending on the type of hitter and what they are comfortable with.
quote:Originally posted by CollegeParentNoMore:quote:And who said anything about throwing their swing and approach away with 2 strikes?
For every 2 strike mistake HR, one could probably also see a similar number(perhaps more) hitters who are completely fooled and who have a terrible swing and AB, or just swing right through the pitch or hit something someplace other than the barrel of the bat.
Changing your grip with two strikes, i.e. choking up, in my mind is akin to changing your swing. If a player needs to choke up to defend the strike zone with 2 strikes he should consider using a smaller bat or should be choked up on every pitch to take a consistantly good swing.
Sure, players can be fooled with 2 strikes, just like they can be fooled with 1 or no strikes when they guess wrong. My point being I'd prefer most hitters to potentially take their best swing at all three strikes, not just the 1st two and I don't feel most hitters can take their best swing when they choke up with 2 strikes.
Just my opinion.
No problem just a totally different view.
The contrast, from what I have learned is more related to hand/bat speed through the hitting zone.
Some can swing "hard" but not have hand/bat speed in the hitting zone.
Some can swing in a way that is not "hard" but they have amazing hand/bat speed. Hank Aaron immediately comes to mind because he had such strong forearms and wrists.
As he progressed physically, our son got stronger but not, from a scouting perspective, in terms of bat/hand speed. Eventually, with a change in his work in the weight room, the focus went toward his forearms and hands. From the end of his junior year in college to the beginning of his senior year, other coaches and scouts emphasized the difference in hand and bat speed through the hitting zone.
His swing didn't change.
The approach with 2 strikes didn't change.
Taking an inch off the bat with 2 strikes didn't change.
What changed was the hand/bat speed through the hitting zone and the results of the hand strength/bat speed through the hitting zone.
In my view, hand/bat speed isn't always a function of how "hard" they swing or choking up or not. Being able to barrel a ball, seeing the ball long, with bat speed through the hitting zone and a solid, successful 2 strike approach makes the difference for some players.
