Choosing the USA National Teams

WillieBoBo:

I think if we followed the creed below we would be in great shape!

Organizations should be like tall trees that supply support and foundation on one side, while the kids are the fruit and leaves that benefit from that support and make the continued success of the tree possible.

Makes alot of sense to me...how about you WillieBoBo?

Yes, I agree completely.

This is the basic tenet that allows civilizations to thrive and prosper.

The organization in this case is USA Baseball.
http://www.usabaseball.com/sports/m-yth-basebl/usab-m-yth-basebl-body.html

If what we strive for is mediocrity, we can easily attain that.

Sport, being bloodless combat, has its greatest honor in victory.

Unfortunately ...... perhaps the reason that we are not dominating at the world level is that the world has leveled the playing field. The same situation exists in basketball and Canada faces same in hockey. Simply stated there are great players in other countries too

Is the gist of your post that we do not have the talent and/or leadership in this country to be the best in international competition?

Should we become comfortable with mediocrity?

I guess Luxembourg could field a better team at all levels than we can.

CHAMPIONSHIPS...yes!


MEDIOCRITY...no!

That's my vote!

Iv'e been reading allot of post's regarding the USA baseball teams. Hopefully we can get better representation this year for our youth and junior teams. The one thing Iv'e noticed is that no one is saying why. If you look at some of the country's that are involved they don't have nearly the open sports that the US does. These country's have allot of sports but nowhere near what the US does. Yes,we have a large population but we have allot of sports that take up alot of time for the multi sport athlete. Cuba pushes baseball year round and pretty much nothing else. If we where limited on the sports we have, we would be totally dominate in this game. Alot of good high school baseball players do not travel nor do they play summer baseball. Football conditioning is all summer and their is allot of talent from the US that doesn't get seen at the games. So if you look at the teams for example in the JO's there are 144 teams. That's roughly 2200 kids. I'm not sure where you can even find a number for Cuba but i bet it;s ten fold on the numbers. Year round baseball on the same teams will just about beat anyone.

BOBO

What is your "mission" here?

TRhit:

Here's my guess as to WillieBoBo's mission...

"Your mission, WillieBoBo, should you chose to accept it, is to secure the answer to the following question...Gold medals have been eluding our national teams since the year 2000, what suggestions would you make in improving the process or teams?"


This post will not self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck WillieBoBo...

My point in raising the question is to point out that

1)something is wrong with the selection process

2)something is wrong with the idea that we as a nation should not expect more from teams that represent the nation

There is something wrong since the year 2000 and it should be adressed.

Further, if we go back to the beginning of international youth baseball, something is wrong that we have not presented stronger teams.

Nobody who puts together a team to represent anything will be happy as the also ran team.

Label me as a terribly romantic, naive, idiot, but I think you need to find extremely tough competitors, at all of the levels you mentioned, that also play with an extreme amount of heart.

The powers that be who select the rosters need to keep this paramount in their mind when choosing...it certainly is worth a try...it can't hurt can it?

So am I to understand that your point is that the organization who selects the selection committee and establishes the slectiion process is selecting inferior judges of talent and ability?

BOBO

Who and what determines what is inferior?

YOU !!!!!

In international competition, anything other than gold is inferior.

TR,

If you could choose an All Star team from the best 1000 kids you have seen play in a season, how good would you think that team would be?

BOBO

who would you have select the teams ??

You preach but you give no ?solutions

I was hoping for others to present their ideas.

I would begin by choosing winners.

Winning coaches, winning players, winning adminstrators.

I would establish a selection process that would be on going and inclusive of the many organizations afilliated with USA Baseball.

I would be forming a team that has won and knows how to win.

WillieBoBo:

Now that demonstrates a tremendous amount of good ol' common sense...really does!

That should be easy enough to accomplish...that is if you're truly dedicated to winning!

What about ample practice time?

Good point TR. Ample practice makes ample perfect!

Baseball is not a choreographed exercise as football and basketball.

I'm sure you've played pick up games and as long as everyone performs well in their positions, the team would be stellar.

When I mentioned the initial stages in my post, I was dealing with the selection process.

Once the team is selected, then the practice and finesse can be dealt with.

How about my question?

If you could pick from 1000 of the best ball players in a season, at what level would you think that team would be capable of performing?

BOBO

I wouldnt pick it--I would allow my coaches to make the choices so they get the players they want and can work with.

WilliBobo

If you use MLB as a standard, you have to see that the unpredictablity of our game makes it almost impossible to predict accurately.

Everyone starts with what they have on paper, and then in most instances, the team does not produce what you hoped it would.

How can one pitcher win the Cy Young one year and then be so "off" the next?

Chill

The answer is simple--that is baseball !!!

My question was rhetorical, Tom. LOL

If you could pick from 1000 of the best ball players in a season, at what level would you think that team would be capable of performing?

How can you know? One player will step up big time, another will go 0-15 like Teixiera did?
Is he now a bad hitter? Of course not, but it happens.

That is one of the main shortcomings of choosing a team from data alone.

Most often in MLB, pitchers are left in too long on days that they are not 'on'.
An ERA can take a beating when a sinkerballer doesn't keep the ball down.

Teams are formed with redundancy built in the mix. If one player isn't getting it done, someone is capable of taking his/her place.

TR,

On the selction question that you evaded, my point is that there are not merely 1000 quality ballplayers of the eligible players in each group.

There is a better selection process in the Little League World Series to find the best ball players than in choosing the players for our National Teams.

I would venture to say that there are a thousand quality ballplayers in each state to compete at the international level.

What a ridiculous comment! In fact, your whole series of comments on the national teams just reeks of sour grapes. Why don't you reveal what your REAL gripe is?

Leaving aside your obvious axe-grinding towards USA Baseball:

I'm not as familiar with the other national teams, but the Youth National Team has regularly medaled and also has won the gold at least once in recent years. Cuba is usually the dominant team, but remember, Cuba is in a position to choose its team early, practice them at length, and prepare for the series. Carribean players also have the advantage of already being acclimated to the heat.

Our guys are scattered around the U.S. They get about a week to get to know each other and try to learn to play as a unit, under coaches they just met. Then they have to play in places like Mexico (last year) or Venezuela (this year) in AUGUST, for Pete's sake. It's amazing they don't all double over with cramps or heat strokes. (I always wonder why they don't play in Canada or Iceland or some place cooler that time of year.)

Baseball isn't football. The best team doesn't always win. Head to head, the worst team still beats the best team about a third of the time. Single elimination tourneys inevitably suffer from the difficulty in winning several consecutive games; someone comes out the winner, but not necessarily the best team. That's why MLB plays a World SERIES, not a "super bowl of baseball.

What's amazing about our Youth National Team is that they are ALWAYS there at the finish. They have won it all on occasion, but to expect them to beat the world's best teams every single year is downright moronic. Nobody who knows diddly squat about baseball would expect that to happen.

Moronic is making excuses for failure.

Every level of the National teams have Cuba as their main competition.

With that being said, the standard should be in forming a team that will beat the best, Cuba.

I have no particular gripe with any level of the USA Baseball teams except that they fall short in bringing home the gold. (Unless Cuba is not permitted to participate.)

If you are happy with second place, that is your choice.

I have a higher opinion of this nation.

I have a higher opinion of a program who has less to work with yet attains greater results as well.

You can continue making excuses as the quality of baseball continues to deteriorate in this nation and in the make up of our national teams.

USA Baseball Medal Count

Overall Medal Count 1984-2004 (20 years)
Gold 13
Silver 23
Bronze 12

National Collegiate & Pro Medals
Gold 3
Silver 10
Bronze 3

Junior 18-Under Medals
Gold 5
Silver 11
Bronze 9

Youth 16-Under Medals
Gold 4
Silver 2
Bronze 0

Womens 16-Over Medals
Gold 1
Silver 0
Bronze 0

Why would you think that I had an axe to grind with the USA Baseball organization?

What reason do they have to exist besides selecting the best representatives of our baseball players in international competition?

If that was my sole purpose for my existence, I would establish a far better selection process than a one week tournament and another one week try out.

Maybe selecting these teams is too much for them.

Maybe it interferes with some other goal they may deem more important.

By your own admission, the selection process is less than desired.

I think Midlo makes some good points, but I certainly understand where Willie is coming from. One fact about baseball is that it should never be a one game series. Double elim or 3 game sets are more telling. In many other countries, the priority of National Pride comes first and foremost. Here, the are way too many other priorities. The mind set begins at the top. If we were so bent on winning for the country, we wouldn't bring these kids together for 1 week and expect them to gel. We would spend a month with them together practicing and competing to get them ready. At the upper levels, the long ball and excitement dominates the mind set. In international competition, all facets of the game become more enfasized. We could use some adjustment to thinking and planning, but I do believe we will always be right near the top in most levels. I also believe MLB will bring a different approach and leave Selig's favorite manager home next time for a more fundamental manager.
I think its great that we discuss these issue's, but nobody should have a Cow over them.

Good to see that someone is getting it.

Coachric you hit it on the head. If they choose to send a mediocre manager, what can be expected but similar results.

Every member of the selection committee should have reports from every afilliated baseball organization from the 12 year olds up in preparing and grooming our representatives.

If it is too much work for them, maybe they should quit and find something they are better suited for.

I have to agree with Midlo and Coachric; That is, no matter how or who you choose to be on any National Team, you have to give them enough time together to 'gel and perform as a team.

My son was on a team the past two summers that "looked" good based upon the caliber of the individuals. But, IMO, because they come from all over the state and did not practice much together they did not do well as a team. If you expect to "bring home the Gold" more consistently, you need to allow these national teams to work together longer before "going for the Gold".

While we're on this topic...

Are '06 grads who will turn 19 before 1/1/07 eligible for this summer's Junior National Team? ...or is it purely by birth year?

Good to see that the discussion brought you to post.

Why is it that we non-paid baseball folks see the shortcomings in the program so easily?

Birth year, and Jr Nationals are usually by invitation.

"Each year, USA Baseball and its competing National Member Organizations (AABC, American Legion, Babe Ruth, Dixie, NABF, PONY, and RBI) invite the top 144 high school-aged players in America to the Tournament of Stars, where players vie for one of 18-20 spots on the USA Baseball Junior National Team."

Coachric:

quote:

Originally posted by Coachric:
I think its great that we discuss these issue's, but nobody should have a Cow over them.

Especially not a mad cow!

GW4S.... BULLY...!

Willie... Thanks for the feedback. I knew that about the invite, but was hoping for eligibility this summer.

How old is your back to back no hitter kid?
Some good talent in Tampa as well.

Giardina set a new strike out record at the Saladino Tournament striking out 16.

FH:

That's a good one...there's more than meats the sty!

Really FH...some would claim BULLY PULPIT!...way too much pulpit some claim...beefs me where they get that idea!

Erickson is a senior...18 within the past two months if I remember correctly. Back to back no-hitters, and only one hit in the game before that. He's the real deal...Maddox type of pitcher. Signed with Miami.

Giardina is very impressive. He 2-hit us the night we played them. We scored our runs with a bit of creativity. And frankly, I believe he could be even better with a better catcher. His catcher is good, but struggles a bit from the movement on Giardina's pitches. (...not intended as a slam on the catcher, but rather as praise for Giardina.)

Is Carmine throwing tonight, or are they saving him for the final tomorrow?

Woody...I, for one, can cut the floss with swords.