Class or League age?

IMO, at the HS age level the bias has to be to play with your class because that's how schools recruit.  I wouldn't make it any harder than it already is. 

I was just on the phone with my wife talking about the same thing.  I feel that you play where you have the best chance to see the most playing time while balancing improving your skills.  I'd look at the coaches and see who could help my son get better.  Which team he plays on should have no bearing on his ability to play beyond HS.

 

Quick story to prove that point.  My son played 18U for 3 years, his 1st year the team was in a small tournament with only 6 teams.  Turns out there was a scout that watched all 4 games his team played and called the coach the next week to discuss what he say.  He was there to see another kid play on another team and just happened to see ours play and he liked a couple of kids.  He gave us(I was coaching) a scouting report on every kid on our team and was absolutely spot on with what he saw.

IMO it may not be a bad decision to play with the 15u team this year especially if he does not yet have the skills to make an impression upon college coaches.  That said, this would likely be his last chance to "play down" from his class.  Apparently there must be some pros to the 15u team given your son's desire to play with them.  Depending on each team's goals and schedules, the 15u team could conceivably get more exposure.  His fall (?) team will not impact his ability to showcase or attend camps where he will be slotted with his class.

We have decided to go down the road of what will be the most fun.  Fun means 1st playtime, 2nd level of competition, 3rd winning more often than losing.  Find the best team where he is a top 1-5 player, with highest level of competition, that wins it's fair share of games. 

 

I'd be more interested in knowing how the schedules of the two teams stack up. If the 15u team plays 16u and gets competition against better teams and play in games with better exposure, don't let the age classification scare you off.

Once a kid masters the 60/90 field he should play up to the level of his ability. Starting in 7th grade he should never play below his grade level.

What if he has limited playtime at his grade level.  A majority of 7th graders are 13U, 8th 14U, 9th 15U, 10th 16U.  If your young (13) 8th grader only plays limited time on 14U teams wouldn't it make more sense to play 13U where he never comes off the field?  My point being is he is a bottom half player on 14U teams and a top half player on 13U teams.   

Playing time is important. I'm making the assumption the kid can get on the field. My son was 5'2" when he played 13u and 5'4" when the 14u season started. He was eligible to play a year down. When he played 13u he could have played LL. I felt he was better suited playing up with his grade. He wanted to play with and against players in his grade.

Playing time is most important. That said at the HS level you need to try to play at age level if possible. From what I'm seeing playing up is fine but playing down is bad. At least in terms of recruiting. 

14 and below my bias would be toward the best coaching/training he will get.  Most teams should rotate players at that level (something to ask), so playing time shouldn't be an issue.  Also, being a "bottom of the roster" player isn't a bad thing.  It teaches you how to compete and play up to your competition.  Good coaching/training will set you up for a long time going forward.  Your goal is to get to HS and contribute.

 

BUT, when you get to HS things change.  If you're looking to get to the "next level" you need to get in line with the recruiting timeline.  So that should take precedence.  If you got good coaching at the younger levels, you know what to do to stay sharp. 

I think it depends onwhat his goals are after high school.  If he thinks he wants to take a shot at college, I think he needs to play grade.  My oldest is a July kid too and that's what we did.  The only thing that might sway me is if the 15u team is an organizaion of some prominenece that might be significantly better equipped to get the kid recruited than the 16 organization.  The other thing to consider is whether he is good enough to sign on to the 15 team and get moved up to their 16 unit.   That might be worth some consideration.  That said, all things equal, he should be playing his grade at this point in his baseball life.

If getting recruited is your goal go with grad class.  If not age...always play the most competitive you can if tour goal is to keep playing beyond the youth years...also, you can always play down on the side to get extra reps in

There are some good "best practices" on this forum, and playing with high school class is one of them. Ideally, you would want him to play for the other organization's 16U team next summer, but you didn't mention that as an option. Just given the limited information you supplied, I would lean toward the 15U team. Mainly because you mentioned JC and DII/III. IMO, he's not likely to get recruited by those school next summer (his sophomore year) on either team, so let him play with the better team (and where he wants). His big recruiting year will be junior year of high school, and that summer/fall.

I would suggest playing with his class. Ultimately that is who he will be compared to and competing against. College options will be presented in the summer between his Junior an Senior year. My 2015 is a summer birthday (young for grade year) and did not complete until the summer between his Junior and Senior years and had many D1, D2 and D3 options to play beyond HS.  What players need to focus on is getting better, stronger and faster. RC are not only looking for baseball players but are mainly looking for athletes who can play baseball! 

This piece of advice that I bolded and underlined above....how many others agree with this?

I'm normally with the "play your grade" crowd, but we found ourselves in the same position as you this year (son is a 2017).  After weighing all options, son opted to play with the 15U vs 16U squad.  This was based on the fact that all of their tournaments except 1 are at the 16U level, half of the team is his grade level and have 1-2 years varsity experience, and they are more competitive than the 16U team.  Also have excellent coaches and this team really wanted him to fill a key role.  He couldn't be happier with his decision.  Not sure on where he'll end up for next season, but this year it worked out well.  

 

 

Other thing to consider here is kid pushing himself due to competition around him.  At the higher levels of baseball ther is a big difference from one age to another til you get to.that 15 or 16 yo level when maturity starts leveling out some.  So caco for your particular situation you have to ask yourself how would my kid stack up against other 2020's.  In the long run how he compares to 2021's is irrelevant.   And I just believe if he were with other 2020 kids it would push him to get better.  My kid plays with his age and class so there is no option to play 'down' or with age depending on how you look at it.  But.he is an older 2020 and sometimes I wonder if.he wouldn't be better off playing up.  There is a false comfort playing with his class.  I think he may feel more pushed and work harder if he were up a year and behind the curve a little.  Bottom line though I agree with most that if your son wants to eventually play college got to play with your class.

Here is my take on this as we are going through things (2017).  BTW, this is assuming the kids reason for playing summer ball is to get college exposure.  If he is playing just to play or to improve his skill set then thing change...

 

I would make sure I am playing AT grade level.  Those playing below grade level are not going to get many looks.  Think of it this way.  An RC heads out to a tourney to watch talent.  Different age groups are playing.  Unless there is a total stud playing at the Frosh or Soph level they are not going to be randomly watching those games.  They are going to be looking at the Jr's and Sr's.  I've seen it happen many times these past couple of years.  30 guys crowded around the backstop of the Jr's and no one watching the game at the field 40' away.  Mostly because its Frosh playing.  Neither of the games featured a total stud that everyone was wanting to see.  

 

Plus throw in the fact that if they are watching a team play and one of the players stands out, but is not a stud, they will look more into him.  If they find out he is a Jr playing with the Soph's they are going to be asking themselves why is he playing down vs. playing at grade level.  The logical conclusion is that he could not make a team at his age group or that he does not have the confidence to play at his age group.

 

All that said, you still need to be in the right program to be seen.  The majority of the programs out there will not get the kids the exposure they need.  The programs that I am familiar with, that know how to get the kids the exposure they need, do not allow kids to play with other classes.  They may have a kid play up for a few games but for the most part they keep them with their class.  They will not have a kid play down.

 

 

There is something that I think is being overlooked. Based on the post, maybe I'm assuming too much, but it seems like the younger team might actually be the better team. Also, by 15u, most of those teams are playing the majority of their schedule in 16u tourneys. There just aren't that many specifically 15u tourneys out there. I don't think it matters who he's playing with as much as who he's playing against. A 16u team that isn't very competitive and plays mostly local, low-level tourneys, for example, can't help a kid nearly as much as playing with a 15u unit that plays high-exposure tourneys. This isn't like the difference between playing 14u and 15u. Both 15u and 16u are high school level and mostly play in the same tourneys.

I apologize to the OP, didn't mean to derail your thread, my kid has an August birthday so we are going through this right now as well.

 

The odd thing is 2020dad, I have taken my son to 4 tryouts, only one was 13u for the best of the best team at a very large program, he was about the third biggest kid there at 5'8, and many kids there were going into 8th grade, like my son, or were already 13 (Must have had a May-July b-day), my son is still 12 for another month.

 

The other 3 tryouts have been for 14u teams, there have only been 3 kids out of all three 14u tryouts that were bigger than my son, and only one kid pitched faster than him.  So while he hasn't had a problem throwing from the 60 foot mound, or the throw downs to second on the 60x90 field, or the throws from 1B to 3B, and I see no difference with the drop 3 over the drop 10 bat, (likely because the fields got bigger, so placement is still the same), I have to question if the caliber of play would be better on the 13u team, which will be playing mostly 14u tourneys.  They may be younger, but they are the elite of the elite down here, they draw the talent.

I agree with Joes87 and but with an exception...programs do not get kids exposure rather kids get their own exposure. Playing tournaments should not be solely relied upon to get in front of a RC.  

 

A player should play with his class on the best possible team and also should attend camps and showcases.  The more exposure the better!

I would agree with that.  My son played "elite" at 13u, which was better than playing weaker age level teams.  But then he made the jump to his age group for HS.  At some point you have to jump up to the grade level.  It's just about finding the right opportunity to do so. 

+1 on being proactive.  Son emails local coaches of whatever tournament he's going to be at with his schedule, a link to his video and a quick note just "inviting them to stop by if they're in town and have time."  We've been surprised at how many actually stop by to watch, even if we don't see them. 

Joe, it is worse than that.  We where at Vandy and caught a tournament.  There where several scouts with their guns in the stands.  They where watching a LHP.  Gunned every pitch -- mid 80's.  I felt bad for the other teams RHP.  As soon as he came on the field, they put their guns down and started eating, texting, and otherwise not paying attention. 

Seen simliar stuff.  My kids first "real" showcase was between his frosh and soph year in HS.  It was a private affair put on by his program.  About 35 or so college guys there.  The heard thinned down to 4 college guys by the time his class came up to showcase.  

Not only do they stop by but they get to see kids that they didn't know existed as well.  My 2015 got two offers from schools that initially saw him while coming to one of his games to watching an opposing player.

Once you get to high school the lines tend to blur. My son plays on both a 15u team which is specific in a run at the Babe Ruth World and on an 18u Connie Mack team. In between it gets strange. There have been a couple of times where playing with the 18u team may have slightly hurt him when he was at an event where there were also 16u and 17u divisions. All of the D1 schools were watching the 17u and 16u games. the only ones at the 18u games were JC's and DII's needing to fill out there 2015 class. One actually expressed that he was impressed with my son, but really wasn't looking at 2018's and 2017's. Maybe a 2016 would catch his eye, but he couldn't really afford to project that far.

It depends on the program.  I put up a lengthy post on this a couple of weeks back.  98% of the programs and tourneys out there do nothing to get the kids exposure.  Many say they do but the reality is they do not.  There are programs that are exception to the rules.  Here in IL out of the hundreds (thousands?) of travel programs at the HS level there are maybe 5 or 6 programs that know how to get the kids seen.  These few programs play in "closed" events.  Playing against each other most of the season.  They rarely play in traditional tourneys.  Many of them run their own showcases for the college guys and their teams.

 

I also happen to agree with you on the kids needing to do the work to be seen.  The kids still need to market themselves.

I want to emphasize one more thing...although i suggested the grade level path (usually more meaningful when they reach HS)...It is very noticeable from attending a lot of events  that 16u and 17u is the hotbed for scouting...this ties in closely with "early finds" by the big programs, and actual age a lot of kids are turning when they reach that first signing period (more the 17u).  That being said, maybe maximize participation in events of this age bracket if exposure to coaches and scouts is one of your goals.

Someone also mentioned small exclusove tourneys and events..  i have also seen these too and these are golden if the organization owners or coaches have good connections and bring tgose people to the event to focus on thier players.

Let me just point out one thing.  RCs know when they go to watch a game what grade level a team is.  Even if a 14u team is playing in a 17u tournament, the RCs know that team is a 14u team.  Even if the RC watches the game, his thinking is probably going to be, I'll keep an eye out for so and so in two years, he's only 14.  He may not know that particular kid is actually a grade ahead of everyone else on the team.  So, in 2 years, your window may be closed.  

That's not entirely true. Many of the best teams at a given age level will have many kids who are actually above the grad level associated with the age level. For example, I know very well one of the best 14u teams in the country and the roster is almost entirely made up of 2018's. It's actually quite common at the upper levels.

I would then suggest that that is a 15u team. Maybe middle of the pack at 15U? 

I agree wholeheartedly.  To see it from a college's perspective:  Either the kid isn't good enough to play with his class or he isn't willing to compete with kids in his class.  Neither are favorable to the player.

OK, just to keep myself straight with all these grad years and ages being thrown out.  Here's a list of ages along with grad year for next summer.  I'm getting old, have a hard time keeping this all straight.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

17u - 2017

16u - 2018

15u - 2019

14u - 2020

 

My point was if a team bills itself as a 14u team, RCs will ASSUME that all the players are 2020 grads.  Even if they are playing in a 16u tournament.  The only way that RC would know that anyone on the team is actually a 2019 grad would be to ask the coach or the individual player.  If he does not ask, or the coach does not approach the RC to let him know the status of each of his players, that RC will never know that there are 2019 grads on that team.  Whether it be one player or 10 players.  He'll assume that they are all 2020 grads.  Therefore, he will believe that they are too early in his recruiting plan to start approaching them.  If he thinks they are too early to approach, he's not going to ask and he won't know that some of them are approaching his recruiting timetable.  

 

Maybe that clarifies, maybe not.  

Your chart is off by a year (17u are 2016 grads), but I don't think they look at it that way. They see a talent they like, they'll ask or look at the roster for his class.

Actually, they DO look at it that way.  Play with your class.

He said for NEXT summer.  The ages/classes are correct.  One thing some people are forgetting is it is not just about who you play with but who you play against.

Yep. Got it.