Coach to coaches question...

Very bluntly you have only two realistic options: deal with it quietly or leave.

 

He's the head coach and you work for him,.if you have already expressed opinions and nothing has changed, continuing to express them or badger him is only going to cause friction. 

 

Searching for a new job is the only other option. If its so bad you would consider a lateral move then do so, but maintain a good relationship with your current school.

 

I've been in your exact situation, another HC opportunity came up and I took it, since where I was the HC spot wasn't a guarantee. I can't tell you how happy i am. 

 

Finding a HC opportunity is all about biding your time. Unfortunately that's the only advice I have.

If I were in your shoes, I would be looking for a different coaching position.  It appears obvious this coach and you are not on the same page.  

Like Ironhorse said, you have limited options where you're at.  Unfortunately, good high level coaching is difficult to find.  And frankly, at least in my area, many high school "coaches" are glorified dodgeball instructors.  They don't have the "program" mentality either and they end up hanging around for years (i.e.; we had a local HS football team not win a game in something like 4 years). 

 

But here is a thought, given that HS Baseball has changed.  Is their any chance to get involved with a HS "prospect" or "showcase" team?  Nowadays, parents and players are looking for paid professionals to help get their kid to the next level.  The kids are committed and you can do exactly what you're looking to do. 

Who is coaching JV?

personally I would rather be head coach with that group and develop them into a great team.

Do u coach a summer team?

I have been dealing with it as quietly as possible. My competitive nature kicks in all too often and frustration runs high. I apply to every HC job I find would be most beneficial to myself as well as the school applying too, but most of the interviews end the same; "We are looking for someone with HC experience." I've had HC experience in a few other sports, and guaranty I would be a better option than most other candidates they select. I am not egotistical, more so highly confident in what I can bring to the table and how to develop a well respected program.

 

I received the input I was looking for, which was what I already felt. I am reaching out to see who all has been through this same situation, and how you dealt with it. I know one day I will get my shot, I just hope I can hang in there, with this program, until then. Growing attached to the kids is just one of the reason's I would consider staying and sticking it out.

How long have you been at this school?

A few years. Not long enough to set deep roots, but long enough to know I am not willing to go another season if nothing changes. I hate to have that attitude, but it's almost a force of hand, at this point. I love this game and I love teaching/coaching this game. I'm really hoping and praying something opens up for me this coming off-season.

Coach_Mills, I have not been in this situation exactly (I've never had aspirations to be a HC), but I have been an Asst. Coach with frustrations over philosophical differences and game and practice management.  I feel for you, and FWIW, I think your school is lucky to have a coach like you, who so obviously cares about developing the program and its players.

 

if you don't have deep roots with this program, and aren't tied to the school by virtue of the teaching there or something, honestly, I'd move on.  Life's too short for these frustrations.  In my experience, coaches who seemingly put so little effort into the development of their program and practice plans usually do it that way because "real life" intervenes and they simply lack the time to do it properly, or (more rarely) they are just unsure of how to do it.  Either way, those coaches usually welcome the help if they have somebody willing to do the work, but it sounds like you've already been down that road.  Maybe if your approach is less about philosophical differences and more about filling in with things the coach doesn't seem to have time for, it will generate a less dismissive/adversarial response?  

 

If not, time to move on.  And, if the issue in HC job interviews elsewhere is lack of HC experience, I agree with whomever suggested taking a HC position for a select/summer team.  If you do well there, that should help fill in that perceived gap in your résumé.

 

Whatever you choose to do, good luck to you.

I have been a HC for a high school summer league for the past few seasons. I have that on my resume. I would be ecstatic if he told me to run the daily practice role. We would be SOLID IMO. I get in one on one and teams drills as often as I can slip them in, but it's still not enough to develop the talent of all the players fully. 

Coach Mills,

 

Assuming that you follow others' advice here and begin to look around, I wouldn't hesitate to turn to my former college coaches to assist with the effort. If they're typical, they have well-developed ties to high school coaches. They may also have heard of any college-level assistant positions that might be coming open if that's a path that would be of interest to you.

 

Best wishes to you as you work through your current situation.

I am not a coach, but I am very good friends with an assistant coach that had the exact same issues.  Unfortunately, this AC was a little too vocal about HCs lack of knowledge and capability, and HC found out and did not bring AC back the following year.  I do not blame HC because even though HC not good, HC has the right to expect absolute loyalty, (like any company head manager or owner).  AC's only option, (if AC does not find his own HC job), is to find program where the AC agrees with HC philosophy.  If that HC is a good coach that will reflect well on AC and help propel AC to a HC job eventually.

What he said above...........

 

Its difficult trying to figure our why a HS HC is picked and once in position IMO they leave when they choose to do so. 

Ditto to what iron horse said. I would add instead of telling him how you would do it different. Why not ask him the how and why he is doing it like he does. Never know, you might learn something.

OK so I've been there before as well only with a Hall of Fame Coach who knew a lot.  Still, I had things I had learned in college and from reading books ... and so I wanted to do those things.  I was his assistant coach for 12 years.  As I progressed in my time there I was given more and more responsibilities.  I ran with them.  To be sure had I caused conflict, he would not have trusted me and given me more responsibilities.  How does that old saying go, "you catch more flies with sugar than vinegar."  Take some drills you like.  Incorporate them in ways that do not mess with his practice schedule.  If he does not have a practice schedule, as him for some OF or IF and see if he will let you take them to another diamond or hit fungos in between BP tosses so that you can work with them.  If you want to improve hitting, suggest to the coach that such and such could really benefit from a drill you learned and then see if you can set up a station or two on the side during BP.  Slowly work others over there.  There are so many ways that you can be positive and improve these players if you don't concentrate on your dislike or disgust for the HC.  I think the point was also made, that you might just learn some things from the HC as well.  When I was a young whippersnapper I thought I knew it all.  Now I know that I don't know anything.  That makes me smart because now I listen and learn.  Something to think about.

It's his program. You can and should offer suggestions. But it's his call and his program. Behind the scenes offer suggestions and voice your opinion. Outside of that support him and do your job to the best of your ability. When or if you find yourself in a situation where you can't do that the find another job.

When your a HC your going to demand that your staff is loyal and does it the way you feel it should be done. Your going to do it your way. Your going to expect your asst coaches to support you.

You may be more qualified than the guy you work for. You may be a better HC. But until you are your not. Either ride it out until you are or seek another job that allows you to do it your way. Good luck and be careful.

Coach B- I do exactly everything you mentioned. I do not crash the party with my ideas, so to speak, but I make suggestions. I run my drills when I get the opportunity to work with one or a few on the side. I always bring up how we need to work game-like situations and work them at game speed. He agrees mostly but these suggestions typically never come to fruition. Practice is ending before we "get to it". What I have been doing lately is telling the kids I will stay after and hit extra fungo or cage/tee work if needed. The problem with that is the kids feel their practice is over for the day and they barely broke a sweat. There is plenty more I can give details that is not being done, but I'm not wanting to make it a complete complain-fest on my part. Have you ever felt that half the teams loses were due strictly because they were not appropriately prepared? This is becoming a trend over the past few seasons.

"Do your job to your best ability"

 

That's just the thing, mismanagement has proven to allow underachievement for the team as well as the solid assistant coaches imo. Handcuffing assistants to help develop, and players to not put in much x's and o's work is not the answer. Thanks for your input though.

No problem. But your the asst coach no HC wants. Nothing should be said to anyone about a fellow coach or team mate outside of your program. Unless a life is in danger or there is some sort of criminal activity is going on. You go face to face. If you get to the point you can't support the man you move on. You don't undermine the program regardless if your a better coach or not it doesn't matter it's his program.

If your not careful you end up being that assist coach who undermines his boss. That guy no one wants to work with. No one trusts. Don't you know that your asst coaches are going to think they know a better way one day than you do? Never air it in public.

I have worked with coaches in the past that I thought were clueless. We have all had a boss at some point and time we felt was clueless. You deal with it face to face and if that ain't good enough you live with it or move on. If you don't move on and attempt to undermine him you need to understand no one is going to come out of it without baggage.

I'm not suggesting you are doing that. I'm just suggesting that you don't. I have known coaches that were very bright hard working guys that simply couldn't keep it in house out of frustration and a desire to do it their way. Only to find out that other HC's see it as a disloyal power hungry guy that couldn't wait his turn. Word travels quickly. Good luck

You are being unclear in your post. No one ever said anything about undermining him. Go back and read my previous posts if you're inclined to. I am simply asking how people has dealt with my specific situation and you come out and say "I'm the assistant coach no HC wants..." Which is quite the opposite. I am the head coach that most HC's would love to have as an assistant. Then you go on to say "I'm not suggesting you are doing that." I'm not sure where you are going on this post. Why would I come on here to ask my question? A. Anonymity- I could be coaching in your town, or thousands of miles away.

B. To get like minded people who have been in my situation and pick their brains.

 

As far as one day with my assistant coaches, I'm going to let them work their trade. I won't handcuff. As I said earlier, I have been HC in a few different sports. I have been considered successful as well. How you may ask? By allowing my assistants to work their craft. I would like to believe I'm the guy you would love to have work for you as well as the guy you would love to work for. Simple as that. 

First, there is a lot of wisdom in Coach May's Posts!  Typical that he provide such content.

 

Coach Mills, by letting your assistants do their work, what are you going to do when they feel that their way is better?  When Coach May posted, "Do your work to the best of your ability," you stated that that was what is wrong.  It is what is right.  You are not the HC and so, you work in ways that still build the program.  It is not your say or program.  In so many ways, it is a learning opportunity for you.  Also, there just might be some method to the madness that the HC employs.  I played and did well.  I had my ideas and thought that the HC I first coached under had some strange ideas.  Still, after watching him over and over, I finally understood and he was spot on with what he was doing.  Coaching baseball in HS is not a one size fits all.  So many of the good ideas I had as an assistant coach didn't work when I became a HC.  For me, it was good to have a mentor to call to ask a question or two of.  I don't think I know of one assistant coach who walks into a HC position totally prepared.  Maybe you will disagree with this but the reality just might be different.  One thing for sure, you have access to some good advice here on this site and so, keep in mind that most of us coaches have been there and done that.  (I hate that phrase.) 

 

Take care,

 

Darrell Butler

 

Edited to add:

 

BTW, and to give you some background on me, I have been the HC in four different sports.  I have a winning record in everyone of them and not just barely over .500.  In baseball, I have been involved in a few hundred HS wins and have coached a couple of national championship teams. 

CoachB- As far as letting my assistants work: I greatly hope "their way is better". That's one of many of my jobs as a HC is to go find assistants who love to coach the game, but don't want the added pressures of being the HC. My practices (in my respective HC sports) have been organized and timely. I print out stations to be practiced that day and give them to the student-managers. My assistants know what we are going to work on that day. As long as they know their duties, and I trust them to teach the kids what to do properly (as I always have), there tends to be very little room for complaining. 

 

As far as learning from the method of the madness. You are correct. I have learned in most cases things not to do. Some of the things were simply confirmed from my previous understandings. 

 

Bottom line is I appreciate all the input everyone has given on this thread. I thank you for your time writing your thoughts and opinions based on your own understandings. I wish you all luck in your respective seasons. Talk to you all soon, in other threads.

This thread has attracted some of the best coaches on here.  I don't think any meant to sound harsh.....just blunt.  I have learned something from almost all of my asst. through out the years. (even my current one named catfish.....ok so I have learned about competitive bbq from him, but it is something)

 

I had an asst for a couple of years at a school that we made the play-offs every year, and I know we did things that he did not agree with.  I left and he did it the "proper" way and only won one game that year. He called me later that year and said he now understood why I did some of the things I did. He has since gone on and coaches at one of the better baseball schools in the area. He still calls and ask for advice. He learned that you coach like you have to, not like you should.

 

I had to learn the same thing.  I had a HC that did it differently than I would have done it, but he let me coach my position players how I wanted. He and I had several discussion, but in the end I told him it was my job to make him look good and outside of that office that is what happened.  Well, three straight state championship games later.  I too, realized that there are different ways to get it done.  I still laugh thinking about all of the college coaches and recruiters that showed up to watch practice.  I know they were thinking how do these guys win?  But one year at a 2A school we sent 9 kids to play college ball.

 

Hang in there.  You will find the right fit for you and your style

I agree d8. No one style is a fit for every program/player. I have always had the knack to get my players (boys or girls) to buy into my philosophy and play hard for me. Congrats on your state appearances, and I have no doubt mine are waiting in the wings. I love this sport, and simply do not care for what I feel may be laziness. Whether that is from myself, the players or other coaches (on my side or opposing teams.) Let me just say; I played high school for a hands off type coach. My school had baseball history and talent out the whazoo. We didn't work on any specifics in practice, it was simply BP and infield fungo. No game situations or anything. Why? Because our coach knew our talent alone would get us to the post season. I felt our teams in high school all underachieved, and one season even made it to the state finals but lost. I did not learn technical aspects of the game until I played in college. My college coach taught the game, how I feel, was the "right" way. 

 

No one can ever sell me that this "practice process" is acceptable. Maybe pre-games only. Where is the learning when 15 kids stand around in the outfield and a few take 10-15 hacks of lob balls? I don't like my time being wasted, as I'm sure you all agree and feel the same way.

 

The situation now is the exact same, with the exception of having the pick of the litter baseball players. I am a huge advocate for teaching fundamentals and teaching specific nuances of the game. I'm big into developing the younger kids to be prepared to play varsity level when it's their time. I have never coached a program (in any sport) where we have not progressed over a period of time (that season or getting better from one season to the next, etc.) I feel I make an immediate impact with the kids and they try hard when I'm around. 

 

Like I said earlier, I deep down know my two options: Move on or do what I can and "stick it out" in hopes that things change for the better. 

Did you play for the evil, red empire up the road? I know from talking to some of their former players that is how they ran practice, and they won a lot. The coach they have in there now does more.

HA! Are you talking about Carthage? No, I played for a "powerhouse" in the D/FW area... Same concept though, I'm certain.

You had mentioned you knew the area.  So I took a guess. I remember playing them one year in a close game and they simply refused to bunt or try to manufacture a run. They just stood up there with the philosophy that they could out hit you.

Yeah, I coached out in East Texas. I learned a lot about the haves and the have nots in that region. I also learned the have nots won't admit they have not, but simply place blame on the coaches. HA!

You got that right. I basically had a conversation that ended up with me telling them they had coached him for 14 years and I had coached him for 4 weeks.  If they knew as much as they thought they did their son would be better.

I got a lot of "My kid is the best kid on the team, why aren't you starting him?" Well, because them making little league all stars does not make them varsity quality. He's not even the best kid at his position.

 

You know how the story goes...

If you see room for improvement you make suggestions. If they're ignored you shut up and do things the coach's way. If it's too frustrating to deal with you move on. Never vent your frustrations to others. It will likely get back to the coach. You want to avoid looking for a new position with a reputation for bucking heads with the head coach.

Thanks for the advice, but this post has already moved on in another direction. If there was a delete post button, now is the time to use it. See you at practice today RJM (I jest) I'm sure this old codger, here in Oklahoma, doesn't even know how to turn on a computer (once again, I jest... I think)

Coach mills I got your pm, but can't reply by phone for some reason. I am on the bus headed to tonight's game. I willvshoot you one back prob. Monday

Great! I look forward to hearing from you.

Coach Mills ... I meant the people in your baseball community, not the internet.

I understand. For what it's worth, I am a professional. The kids will never know, by my words or body language alike, if I am in complete disagreement with what's going on. I am highly supportive and do exactly what's asked of me. I throw around my suggestions directly to the coach and go with what he says. I try and be the "inner voice" to he just in case his mind is on something else. We get along very well and enjoy each others conversations. It is nothing personal nor would it ever be. That's the shame of it all, because the work environment is great. It's the philosophical differences in practice/game management that I feel we don't connect. I hope this all makes sense.