The sad part about it is that those who want to coach read hear and see what is going on now and say why put up with the it. I had a great experience for close to 30 years. but at the end there began what many have described. Just a few situations where you had to defend yourself because somebody made it a point to let the powers to be they had issues. Most of the coaches I competed against and were of my tenure left within a couple years. On seeing them they would say the parents were a pain in the neck. the problem is it is not all parents as a matter of fact just a few can make coaching a chore. It is what it is.
Coach,
Thank you for your years of service. I wonder how many lives you've touched in a profound manner? I think that you must focus on that and not the few fools in the stands. The safety of the crowd allows a those idiots to say things they would never dare speak to your face. The first time you respond, you lose. Stay above those and continue your professional demeanor. There need not be any communications from the coaching staff with anyone other than players.
E-mail, in my opinion, is not the way to deal with something like this. I've seen some Coaches address general fan behavior, as parents and representatives of the school, during their first General parents meeting prior to the season. Separate meetings for each level is advisable (9th, JV and Varsity). You have a great opportunity then to explain your Coaching style, your feelings about how you will determine playing time, if and how you might assist players to the next level and other pertinent topics.
Don't allow the few to ruin a great opportunity for upcoming player to play for you. Those that you are accountable to, likely know what they have. Let your performance, record and integrity speak for you. The rest you can't control
God speed and best of luck!!
Thank you for your years of service. I wonder how many lives you've touched in a profound manner? I think that you must focus on that and not the few fools in the stands. The safety of the crowd allows a those idiots to say things they would never dare speak to your face. The first time you respond, you lose. Stay above those and continue your professional demeanor. There need not be any communications from the coaching staff with anyone other than players.
E-mail, in my opinion, is not the way to deal with something like this. I've seen some Coaches address general fan behavior, as parents and representatives of the school, during their first General parents meeting prior to the season. Separate meetings for each level is advisable (9th, JV and Varsity). You have a great opportunity then to explain your Coaching style, your feelings about how you will determine playing time, if and how you might assist players to the next level and other pertinent topics.
Don't allow the few to ruin a great opportunity for upcoming player to play for you. Those that you are accountable to, likely know what they have. Let your performance, record and integrity speak for you. The rest you can't control
God speed and best of luck!!
THE BOTTOM LINE FOR ME IS VERY SIMPLE---THE PARENTS AND THEIR COMMENTS DO NOT EXIST---IT IS YOUR TEAM AND YOU DRIVE THE BUS NOT THE PARENTS IN THE STANDS--------JUS KEEP ON KEPIN ON !!!
I agree with TRHit, just keep doing what you are doing. I know that is really tough to stomach, but if you lose your temper or cool in front of these parents it will not be good for you in the long run IMHO.
Many of us on this site have been in similiar shoes with ungrateful parents and players as travel baseball coaches, high school or other. I've always said if you really want to get to know people, start a travel baseball team. I understand it is really, really hard to swallow the parental criticism......what they say can be somethimes very hurtful. But they have no idea what it is they are saying, and they have no idea what it is like to walk a mile in your shoes.
As they say, no good deed goes unpunished. Unfortunetly, most players and parents will not realize how good they have it until their next baseball experience or later on in life. I'd strongly urge you to keep your actions and beliefs on the "high road".
I wish you the best of luck.
Many of us on this site have been in similiar shoes with ungrateful parents and players as travel baseball coaches, high school or other. I've always said if you really want to get to know people, start a travel baseball team. I understand it is really, really hard to swallow the parental criticism......what they say can be somethimes very hurtful. But they have no idea what it is they are saying, and they have no idea what it is like to walk a mile in your shoes.
As they say, no good deed goes unpunished. Unfortunetly, most players and parents will not realize how good they have it until their next baseball experience or later on in life. I'd strongly urge you to keep your actions and beliefs on the "high road".
I wish you the best of luck.
quote:agree with TRHit, just keep doing what you are doing.
some have tried but the climate today sometimes makes it difficult. the problem is that some administrators do not have your back. they wilt when push comes to shove.
quote:...the problem is that some administrators do not have your back.
That won't be an issue here. Tremendously respected coach inside and out. The only real issue is a very small (2-3) number of parents making fools of themselves, embarrassing their sons and making a good person (coach) feel badly.
The coach's record and integrity are impeccable and speak for itself.
Its more of a commentary on how things have evolved in youth and HS sports. I hear it a lot (more) at other schools...it just finally reached this one on a small scale...but that doesn't diminish the hurt and frustration.
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Talked the other day to a young man who graduated five years ago and went to work assisting a well respected moderate term HS coach...spent a year there and thought VERY highly of the coach...but thought that the parents were well over the line.
Turns out the parents got the coach canned at the end of the year and have done so every year since...5 years, 5 coaches...is this the way of the future?...a revolving door?
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BTW...watching the Nats/Giants and I think the Nats need another pitcher...soon.
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quote:Originally posted by justbaseball: Its more of a commentary on how things have evolved in youth and HS sports.
Talked the other day to a young man who graduated five years ago and went to work assisting a well respected moderate term HS coach...spent a year there and thought VERY highly of the coach...but thought that the parents were well over the line.
Turns out the parents got the coach canned at the end of the year and have done so every year since...5 years, 5 coaches...is this the way of the future?...a revolving door?
BTW...watching the Nats/Giants and I think the Nats need another pitcher...soon.
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quote:Turns out the parents got the coach canned at the end of the year and have done so every year since...5 years, 5 coaches...is this the way of the future?...
Unfortunately in some situations the future is now .
Check out what happened to three 'long-time' coaches at a school in our league. Once in a while, the school might win the league in a particular sport, but they're usually middle of the pack. Is it the coaches, or is it the luck of the draw with what talent they're presented with?
"While the circumstances surrounding these personnel moves varied, there was a stark similarity to them: All three coaches were told that the use of parent and student surveys, filed electronically and sometimes anonymously, played a role in their dismissals."
Ex-Haverford coach: Why was I fired? (full article)
“One year it’s, ‘We love the job you’re doing.’ The next it’s, ‘We don’t want you back. We’re going in a different direction,’” McNichol said of Haverford’s year-to-year review process.
“Evidently I did something to get fired. I’m not exactly sure what that was.”
After spending parts of three decades on the bench at Haverford, McNichol last month was removed from his post. Yet he was not the longest-tenured coach to be fired by Haverford this year.
Jorge Severini, the 22-year boys s****r coach, also was told he would not be retained for the 2011 season. And only a few days ago, Haverford’s nine-year ice hockey coach Brian Cleary was let go, as well.* (*The township owns a rink and ice hockey is a school-sponsored sport, not 'club status', like most area teams. Thus, the coach is a school district employee.)
While the circumstances surrounding these personnel moves varied, there was a stark similarity to them: All three coaches were told that the use of parent and student surveys, filed electronically and sometimes anonymously, played a role in their dismissals.
The Daily Times learned that Haverford Township School District is the only one of Delaware County’s 15 school districts to employ an anonymous survey that plays a role in the school’s contract discussions with coaches.
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“When I met with (Haverford athletic director Joann Patterson March 28), she said she didn’t make the decision,” McNichol said. “When I met with the principal (Jeffrey Nesbitt), he said it came from higher up. It’s one thing to let me go, but my question all along has been who made the decision? And why was the decision made?
“I’ve been told it was the surveys. Then I was told it was wins and losses. I’ve also heard they wanted to go in a different direction. So which was it?”
The advent of anonymous surveys has confounded more than a few — McNichol included.
Haverford’s survey system, found easily by navigating the school district’s website, does not require a log-in. In fact, it does not require the survey-takers to have a connection to the school or its students, either.
At least that was the case prior to this month, when the survey went dark. The section of Haverford School District’s website that offered the survey has been deactivated in the weeks following McNichol’s termination.
"While the circumstances surrounding these personnel moves varied, there was a stark similarity to them: All three coaches were told that the use of parent and student surveys, filed electronically and sometimes anonymously, played a role in their dismissals."
Ex-Haverford coach: Why was I fired? (full article)
“One year it’s, ‘We love the job you’re doing.’ The next it’s, ‘We don’t want you back. We’re going in a different direction,’” McNichol said of Haverford’s year-to-year review process.
“Evidently I did something to get fired. I’m not exactly sure what that was.”
After spending parts of three decades on the bench at Haverford, McNichol last month was removed from his post. Yet he was not the longest-tenured coach to be fired by Haverford this year.
Jorge Severini, the 22-year boys s****r coach, also was told he would not be retained for the 2011 season. And only a few days ago, Haverford’s nine-year ice hockey coach Brian Cleary was let go, as well.* (*The township owns a rink and ice hockey is a school-sponsored sport, not 'club status', like most area teams. Thus, the coach is a school district employee.)
While the circumstances surrounding these personnel moves varied, there was a stark similarity to them: All three coaches were told that the use of parent and student surveys, filed electronically and sometimes anonymously, played a role in their dismissals.
The Daily Times learned that Haverford Township School District is the only one of Delaware County’s 15 school districts to employ an anonymous survey that plays a role in the school’s contract discussions with coaches.
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“When I met with (Haverford athletic director Joann Patterson March 28), she said she didn’t make the decision,” McNichol said. “When I met with the principal (Jeffrey Nesbitt), he said it came from higher up. It’s one thing to let me go, but my question all along has been who made the decision? And why was the decision made?
“I’ve been told it was the surveys. Then I was told it was wins and losses. I’ve also heard they wanted to go in a different direction. So which was it?”
The advent of anonymous surveys has confounded more than a few — McNichol included.
Haverford’s survey system, found easily by navigating the school district’s website, does not require a log-in. In fact, it does not require the survey-takers to have a connection to the school or its students, either.
At least that was the case prior to this month, when the survey went dark. The section of Haverford School District’s website that offered the survey has been deactivated in the weeks following McNichol’s termination.
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Wow! That stinks!
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Wow! That stinks!
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No, the situation with the Haverford doesn't stink. He was head coach for 14 years and the team's record during that time was 128-205.
There are several aspects to job description for a head coach, and the won-loss record may not be the most important, but 0.384 is probably low enough to justify replacement, even assuming the coach was exemplary at every other aspect of the job.
There are several aspects to job description for a head coach, and the won-loss record may not be the most important, but 0.384 is probably low enough to justify replacement, even assuming the coach was exemplary at every other aspect of the job.
'Tis the season apparrently. A similar situation occurred this week to a local coach with three state championships and six former players currently in MLB.
Area baseball wins leader Mike Smith is fired by Lake Brantley
Smith coached 26 seasons and had 534 wins with the Patriots
April 28, 2011|By Buddy Collings, Orlando Sentinel
Mike Smith was fired as Lake Brantley baseball coach after 26 seasons and three state championships on Wednesday, hours before the Patriots lost a one-run district semifinal game.
Smith, the winningest high school baseball coach in Central Florida history, informed his team of the dismissal after the Patriots (14-12) lost 3-2 to top seed Lake Howell (20-7) in a Class 6A, District 2 semifinal game at Sanford Memorial Stadium.
"I have 14 seniors and I told them I was graduating and leaving with them," Smith said Thursday. "They laughed, but I told them I wasn't kidding."
Nor was he happy.
Smith, 63, hopes to coach for five more seasons, and said he was stunned when Brantley principal Mary Williams called him to her office before the team left for its tournament game to break the news.
"She said she didn't have a reason except that it's just time for a change," Smith said. "It really surprised me because of all the success we've had and the number of kids we've put into college and pro ball."
Smith compiled a career head coaching record of 665 wins and 283 losses, including 534-240 at Lake Brantley. He was 131-43 in six seasons at Bishop Moore (1980-85) before shifting to Seminole County.
Brantley won state championships in 1990, 1997 and 2008. The '90 team, led by 14-year Boston Red Sox catcher Jason Varitek and Brantley's current pitching coach, Brad Rigby, was ranked No. 1 nationally by USA Today.
Smith groomed six major leaguers, including four who are at that level now: Varitek, third baseman Felipe Lopez of Tampa Bay, second baseman Rickie Weeks of Milwaukee, and pitcher Jonny Venters, now in his second year with Atlanta.
"Mrs. Williams was very nice in talking to me," Smith said. "She knew all the numbers. I asked her what have I done for you to take this away from me. She said, 'You've done all you can do here'."
Smith said he has 2½ more years in Seminole County's DROP retirement program as a business teacher. He planned to coach the Patriots through 2013 with that timetable and then hoped to be granted an extension.
Instead, he said he will now look for another coaching position.
Williams' secretary said the principal was unable to take calls on Wednesday due to a day-long countywide meeting of principals.
Link
Area baseball wins leader Mike Smith is fired by Lake Brantley
Smith coached 26 seasons and had 534 wins with the Patriots
April 28, 2011|By Buddy Collings, Orlando Sentinel
Mike Smith was fired as Lake Brantley baseball coach after 26 seasons and three state championships on Wednesday, hours before the Patriots lost a one-run district semifinal game.
Smith, the winningest high school baseball coach in Central Florida history, informed his team of the dismissal after the Patriots (14-12) lost 3-2 to top seed Lake Howell (20-7) in a Class 6A, District 2 semifinal game at Sanford Memorial Stadium.
"I have 14 seniors and I told them I was graduating and leaving with them," Smith said Thursday. "They laughed, but I told them I wasn't kidding."
Nor was he happy.
Smith, 63, hopes to coach for five more seasons, and said he was stunned when Brantley principal Mary Williams called him to her office before the team left for its tournament game to break the news.
"She said she didn't have a reason except that it's just time for a change," Smith said. "It really surprised me because of all the success we've had and the number of kids we've put into college and pro ball."
Smith compiled a career head coaching record of 665 wins and 283 losses, including 534-240 at Lake Brantley. He was 131-43 in six seasons at Bishop Moore (1980-85) before shifting to Seminole County.
Brantley won state championships in 1990, 1997 and 2008. The '90 team, led by 14-year Boston Red Sox catcher Jason Varitek and Brantley's current pitching coach, Brad Rigby, was ranked No. 1 nationally by USA Today.
Smith groomed six major leaguers, including four who are at that level now: Varitek, third baseman Felipe Lopez of Tampa Bay, second baseman Rickie Weeks of Milwaukee, and pitcher Jonny Venters, now in his second year with Atlanta.
"Mrs. Williams was very nice in talking to me," Smith said. "She knew all the numbers. I asked her what have I done for you to take this away from me. She said, 'You've done all you can do here'."
Smith said he has 2½ more years in Seminole County's DROP retirement program as a business teacher. He planned to coach the Patriots through 2013 with that timetable and then hoped to be granted an extension.
Instead, he said he will now look for another coaching position.
Williams' secretary said the principal was unable to take calls on Wednesday due to a day-long countywide meeting of principals.
Link
Nobody is safe - we're all in trouble.
I would like to see where Lake Brantley is in about 10 years after this move.
I would like to see where Lake Brantley is in about 10 years after this move.
Two words...government baseball.
quote:Originally posted by coach2709:
Nobody is safe - we're all in trouble.
I would like to see where Lake Brantley is in about 10 years after this move.
Another local legend Sonny Wise, was cut loose from Apopka HS about five years ago. The coach had Zach Grienke and a bunch of other pro and college players on his teams over 25 years, winning nearly 600 games. The ball park was one of the best in Orlando. The program has steadily declined to the point of being nearly irrelevant.
I think it might be age (discrimination or descretion).
Doesn't matter how good, how many wins, how many you have helped get to the highest level, the older you get, the more people say you can't relate anymore. Old school doesn't work for some anymore, as evident in some posts we often see from parents and young players.
I am not saying this is so in this case, but I think it's what is happening.
Isn't it that way in the workplace today, people getting "forced" out to retire sooner.
Doesn't matter how good, how many wins, how many you have helped get to the highest level, the older you get, the more people say you can't relate anymore. Old school doesn't work for some anymore, as evident in some posts we often see from parents and young players.
I am not saying this is so in this case, but I think it's what is happening.
Isn't it that way in the workplace today, people getting "forced" out to retire sooner.
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Don't tell my wife...or her students!
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Of course I'm a little old school too. Our house is a dead give-a-way!
We used to have a lot of neighbors. We can't figure out where they all went.
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- "Old school doesn't work for some anymore..."
Don't tell my wife...or her students!
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Of course I'm a little old school too. Our house is a dead give-a-way!
We used to have a lot of neighbors. We can't figure out where they all went.
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quote:"She said she didn't have a reason except that it's just time for a change," Smith said.
Now remember she is the principal of the school. this would be the same principal who would want every reason why a teacher failed a student. the would want the teacher to document every test assignment etc etc. A successful coach asks for an answer and he gets I do not have a reason but a change is needed? Administrators in schools want everybody else to explain what they do and why they do it if there is a problem. I can just imagine a teacher explaining a decision with " I did not have a reason for (fill in the blank). Who can you trust?
Its pressure brought from sources she will not name. Lets be honest I bet this Lady could careless what the record of the baseball team is. I bet she would careless if they cancelled the program period. She is just trying to avoid conflict with some behind the scenes goons. Easy way out? Get rid of the coach.
Most administrators these days would be fine and dandy with HS sports being dropped period. Then they could deal with less issues.
Most administrators these days would be fine and dandy with HS sports being dropped period. Then they could deal with less issues.
quote:Originally posted by Coach_May:
Its pressure brought from sources she will not name. Lets be honest I bet this Lady could careless what the record of the baseball team is. I bet she would careless if they cancelled the program period. She is just trying to avoid conflict with some behind the scenes goons. Easy way out? Get rid of the coach.
Most administrators these days would be fine and dandy with HS sports being dropped period. Then they could deal with less issues.
I agree. No move like that is made without
You only have to be growing older in America to understand the reality of age discrimination. It is a lack of respect for the wisdom that experience brings and ironically I have found public education administrators to be some of the most discriminatory against experienced educators. As if somehow effective, intelligent, productive teachers need replaced because they fail to recognize "progressive" thinking in education. Just how far has this progressive thinking gotten us lately?
You have to adress the problem or it will become a bigger one. Did the parents sign a conduct contract in the beginning that states what the expectations are. If so remind everyone of that in an e-mail. Let them know that any concerns should be discussed in person and that negative comments during a game brings down the players and will not be tolerated. I've seen the same with teachers in a classroom-a few parents get others going with their complaints. As long as the information is conveyed in a professional manner I would not worry about the AD-just let them know in advance what you are doing if you feel that is necessary. Chances are if you are having winning seasons they won't care. Parents come/go, a good coach is hard to find. I find those that complain the most contribute the least. These parents may be embarassing their own kid and you would be doing your player a favor putting a stop to it.
Tired of this:
Do I know you? Do you know a pro scout R. Schroeder?
Do you allow your parents to 'hand' water bottles to their sons before or during the game?
Did you have a players and parents meeting before the season and during the season?
You have a college degree. Use your communication tools. Show leadership, "walk tall".
Ask yourself;"what do the parents want"? Don't guess, ask them quietly. You will be surprised.
Every game HS or college I attend I see your male parents
standing together, hands in their pockets. Concern on their faces. They are strangers, I chat with them and ask the questions. "It makes my day"!
Best wishes, you will succeed!!!
Bob
Do I know you? Do you know a pro scout R. Schroeder?
Do you allow your parents to 'hand' water bottles to their sons before or during the game?
Did you have a players and parents meeting before the season and during the season?
You have a college degree. Use your communication tools. Show leadership, "walk tall".
Ask yourself;"what do the parents want"? Don't guess, ask them quietly. You will be surprised.
Every game HS or college I attend I see your male parents
standing together, hands in their pockets. Concern on their faces. They are strangers, I chat with them and ask the questions. "It makes my day"!
Best wishes, you will succeed!!!
Bob
quote:She is just trying to avoid conflict with some behind the scenes goons. Easy way out? Get rid of the coach.
It is a lot easier to give in to the parents. The same thing goes on in academics.
Yes Bob, you know me. You sent me to Australia twice, via New Zealand and China once, via Korea. You treated me like a king and got me involved in the Area Codes back when they were literally groupings by area code. You selected me to coach in the the Goodwill Series also. You were a very important mentor to me back in the day.
Thank you for the support and advice and help along the way.
Tired of this...
Thank you for the support and advice and help along the way.
Tired of this...
Please call me or send e-mail.
We had great trips. Thank you for the memories.
I realize your "frustrations" and maybe I can help.
What are you doing May 28-30. We have a tournament in Sonoma County.
Bob
<www.goodwillseries.org>
We had great trips. Thank you for the memories.
I realize your "frustrations" and maybe I can help.
What are you doing May 28-30. We have a tournament in Sonoma County.
Bob
<www.goodwillseries.org>
Personally, I wouldn't be confrontational with the parents. It might shame some into realizing that they are doing nothing but causing harm to the team but others are going to realize that they are getting under your skin and are going to continue to do what they do in the hope that maybe you will start doing what they want to do.
I am going to assume that you have a good relationship with the boys you coach. I personally would call a team meeting and let the kids know that you are hearing the stuff coming from the stands and that you hope it isn't affecting what is going on in their heads. Most high schoolers are savvy enough to realize what their parents are doing and realize that it is harmful. Let the boys know that you are there to support the team and them as an individual and that negative comments by anyone outside the team gets very little if any consideration when it comes to coaching and playing decisions. Remind them that you will always be there to support them and that any kid with an interfering parent will continue to get your support-despite what that parent is doing.
I am going to assume that you have a good relationship with the boys you coach. I personally would call a team meeting and let the kids know that you are hearing the stuff coming from the stands and that you hope it isn't affecting what is going on in their heads. Most high schoolers are savvy enough to realize what their parents are doing and realize that it is harmful. Let the boys know that you are there to support the team and them as an individual and that negative comments by anyone outside the team gets very little if any consideration when it comes to coaching and playing decisions. Remind them that you will always be there to support them and that any kid with an interfering parent will continue to get your support-despite what that parent is doing.
Maybe your HUGE win today will make things better! 