where can I find the UIL rules that cover a High School coaches behavior and responsibilities? Teachers are held to codes of conduct, etc., what are the coaches?
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UIL website
You can also contact, Mark Cousins [markcousins@austin.utexas.edu], he can forward you the info or give you a location for it on the web.
You can also contact, Mark Cousins [markcousins@austin.utexas.edu], he can forward you the info or give you a location for it on the web.
been there, done that.
i was told by more than one person "if you don't like your high school coach, move out of the district."
i was told by more than one person "if you don't like your high school coach, move out of the district."
OK, I'll take the bait...what is the situation?
quote:Originally posted by funneldrill:
OK, I'll take the bait...what is the situation?
FD.......I was wondering too, but afraid to open up a can of worms!!
it's a local "can of worms" that many are aware of...The HS team gets laughed at because of the antics and/or sympathy goes out to the players for having to endure the unprofessional and abusive verbage and expressions. More talent has been lost or surpressed by the person "in charge". The team has had some success in the past few years IN SPITE of the individual No team or individual recognition is "allowed" and if someone finds themselves in the spotlight, they become a target and are "shown up" by the insecure adult.
"Hypothetical" example...a pitcher gets press for an amazing outing-next chance he is left on the mound after 4 homeruns in one inning...pitcher even motioned to come out-very humiliating.
Another "hypothetical" example...player makes an "ugly" play-but does get the out to end the game. Instead of celebrating the win and going over the play later-the player is berated and sat for at least 2-3 games...his replacement makes several errors yet has no reprocussions.
I have no bitterness about playing time for my son-he managed quite well for himself without any input from the "coach", (he will continue to play in college). My point is, if I acted like an a__ at my job, I would be fired. If I verbally abused minors at my job, I would be fired. If I didn't instruct my students, yet punished them for not performing, I would be fired. If I withheld water and/or put my students in harms way, I would be fired.
Why is an "aleged" coach allowed a free pass? I want to look over their rules and restrictions and see if these kids have any rights.
Baseball is a great game, why would we celebrate someone who has ruined it for so many? I'm done at the particular facility and have nothing to gain except satisfaction.
"Hypothetical" example...a pitcher gets press for an amazing outing-next chance he is left on the mound after 4 homeruns in one inning...pitcher even motioned to come out-very humiliating.
Another "hypothetical" example...player makes an "ugly" play-but does get the out to end the game. Instead of celebrating the win and going over the play later-the player is berated and sat for at least 2-3 games...his replacement makes several errors yet has no reprocussions.
I have no bitterness about playing time for my son-he managed quite well for himself without any input from the "coach", (he will continue to play in college). My point is, if I acted like an a__ at my job, I would be fired. If I verbally abused minors at my job, I would be fired. If I didn't instruct my students, yet punished them for not performing, I would be fired. If I withheld water and/or put my students in harms way, I would be fired.
Why is an "aleged" coach allowed a free pass? I want to look over their rules and restrictions and see if these kids have any rights.
Baseball is a great game, why would we celebrate someone who has ruined it for so many? I'm done at the particular facility and have nothing to gain except satisfaction.
quote:
I have read these and the "coach" in question did shake hands with the other coach and officials...that's it.
quote:Originally posted by screwball:
been there, done that.
i was told by more than one person "if you don't like your high school coach, move out of the district."
I have many reasons besides baseball as to why it would be important to stay...he is the one who needs to leave.
It must be something in the water.
I feel your pain!
I feel your pain!
This person must drink a special brand of water because it's pretty bad. I've spent more time hunting on the UIL site for behavioral rules and consequences and am getting nowhere,so far...I haven't given up. I did contact the gentleman suggested above from UT and am waiting to hear back from him.
quote:Originally posted by thebottomline:
...pitcher even motioned to come out-very humiliating.
Not defending the coach, but if I had a pitcher motion to be taken out (for performance reasons, not pain, obviously), I'd probably have him throw as close to a complete game as possible.
He might need to learn how to compete.
And Mark Cousins is a good guy and should be willing to listen to any insight or complaints. You're heading down the right road.
quote:Originally posted by ironhorse:quote:Originally posted by thebottomline:
...pitcher even motioned to come out-very humiliating.
Not defending the coach, but if I had a pitcher motion to be taken out (for performance reasons, not pain, obviously), I'd probably have him throw as close to a complete game as possible.
He might need to learn how to compete.
And Mark Cousins is a good guy and should be willing to listen to any insight or complaints. You're heading down the right road.
Let's say, "hypothetically", that the pitcher had just thrown over 130 pitches a few days prior...you're in playoffs...and the other team has had at least 4 homeruns off of you in the same inning...would you at least go check and see if it was physical pain? OR, would you put your team's success in jeopardy to prove a point? Do you think that at least one trip to the mound might be in order? The pitcher's competitiveness and history has shown that the kid is genuine and not just in it for himself to "look good"...he's a team player.
I can see your point in some situations- seen it happen and it can be a learning curve...this was not one of them.
I wish I could say that this was an isolated incident...
Mark Cousins is very helpful and I appreciate the information he was able to pass on to me.
quote:Originally posted by thebottomline:quote:Originally posted by ironhorse:quote:Originally posted by thebottomline:
...pitcher even motioned to come out-very humiliating.
Not defending the coach, but if I had a pitcher motion to be taken out (for performance reasons, not pain, obviously), I'd probably have him throw as close to a complete game as possible.
He might need to learn how to compete.
And Mark Cousins is a good guy and should be willing to listen to any insight or complaints. You're heading down the right road.
Let's say, "hypothetically", that the pitcher had just thrown over 130 pitches a few days prior...you're in playoffs...and the other team has had at least 4 homeruns off of you in the same inning...would you at least go check and see if it was physical pain? OR, would you put your team's success in jeopardy to prove a point? Do you think that at least one trip to the mound might be in order? The pitcher's competitiveness and history has shown that the kid is genuine and not just in it for himself to "look good"...he's a team player.
I can see your point in some situations- seen it happen and it can be a learning curve...this was not one of them.
I wish I could say that this was an isolated incident...
Mark Cousins is very helpful and I appreciate the information he was able to pass on to me.
Sir,
I would check to see if your local school district has an "athletic manual." My district does and it is very clear as to what you would want to find out about. Not every district has this type of document, but they should.
I am sorry that your experience with HS baseball has not been a very positive one.
quote:Originally posted by ironhorse:quote:Originally posted by thebottomline:
...pitcher even motioned to come out-very humiliating.
Not defending the coach, but if I had a pitcher motion to be taken out (for performance reasons, not pain, obviously), I'd probably have him throw as close to a complete game as possible.
He might need to learn how to compete.
That is a rather ignorant statement IMHO.
Every pitcher who has or will ever pitch is going to have a bad day every now and then. Staying on the mound when they are having an off day will benefit absolutely no one.
Just curious...is this more FC bashing in lovely, crimefree FM?
Ummm...triple post?
Ummm...triple post?
quote:Originally posted by Texan:
That is a rather ignorant statement IMHO.
Every pitcher who has or will ever pitch is going to have a bad day every now and then. Staying on the mound when they are having an off day will benefit absolutely no one.
A pitcher needs to learn how to try and fight through an "off day." He might reach down and get out of a two-out jam when he doesn't feel like he has his best stuff. That's something he can build on from a confidence standpoint. It also might be something he can look back on when he's having an off day and he's the only option for us.
Anybody can get outs when they feel "on." A kid learning how to pitch through adversity and make adjustments would be a great benefit to the kid and the team. If you think that's ignorant I don't know what else to tell you.
As far as the topic, I obviously don't know all the details. My simple point was that I want a kid who never wants to come off the mound (with the obvious exception of physical issues), regardless off if he's getting hit. If he gives up four bombs I want him to bear down and say "screw these guys. I'm striking out the next three." And if he gets pulled I want him ****ed that he didn't get the opportunity to strike 'em out. As soon as he asks to come out he's given up. I don't like that.
And that's why you're the ironhorse! 
quote:Originally posted by ironhorse:
A pitcher needs to learn how to try and fight through an "off day." He might reach down and get out of a two-out jam when he doesn't feel like he has his best stuff. That's something he can build on from a confidence standpoint. It also might be something he can look back on when he's having an off day and he's the only option for us.
Anybody can get outs when they feel "on." A kid learning how to pitch through adversity and make adjustments would be a great benefit to the kid and the team. If you think that's ignorant I don't know what else to tell you.
As far as the topic, I obviously don't know all the details. My simple point was that I want a kid who never wants to come off the mound (with the obvious exception of physical issues), regardless off if he's getting hit. If he gives up four bombs I want him to bear down and say "screw these guys. I'm striking out the next three." And if he gets pulled I want him ****ed that he didn't get the opportunity to strike 'em out. As soon as he asks to come out he's given up. I don't like that.
Four HR's in one inning is a sign of an off day from which there will be no recovery. And that is hardly a "two out jam".
It's one thing to be in a jam. Sure a pitcher needs to work his way out of a jam. Never said pitchers didn't need to do that. But just because he got in a jam doesn't mean he is having an off day.
I want a kid who if he knows something is wrong is honest enough to tell me. So he doesn't hurt the team. And if his arm is tired or hurt, I also want him to tell me. No excuse for risking serious injury.
Mental toughness does not mean that a pitcher is never honest with a coach.
Quite honestly, I wouldn't leave a kid in for four HR's in one inning.
As a coach, it is pretty easy to judge if a pitcher is just looking for an excuse to get off the mound (e.g., is lacking in mental toughness). Only had that happen once or maybe twice over the years, and both times at the younger ages.
My better sense is telling me to stay out of this one since I don't have a dog in the fight .....
so....now that I am listening to my better sense I removed my observation and opinion.
so....now that I am listening to my better sense I removed my observation and opinion.
I would not feel comfortable giving a who, what and where. "Bashing" only feels good for a minute, getting answers and being proactive is all I can do. I'm aware that there are always going to be good and bad opinions about most subjects and neither should invalidate the other BUT everyone should be held accountable for their conduct and actions. It would be a lot easier to let it all go and let the next guy fight the fight. I'm disappointed I didn't start sooner, I can't change that, but I guess it's never too late.
I appreciate all the advice and suggestions as to where to find information...I have not found an athletic guide/manual yet for our district but I'll
keep looking.
If the kids are held to conduct rules and regulations, surely the coaches are too. Let me say that I've come across coaches from every level of play for many sports and I have great respect for them...haven't seen anything like this that is tolerated.
I appreciate all the advice and suggestions as to where to find information...I have not found an athletic guide/manual yet for our district but I'll
keep looking.
If the kids are held to conduct rules and regulations, surely the coaches are too. Let me say that I've come across coaches from every level of play for many sports and I have great respect for them...haven't seen anything like this that is tolerated.
quote:Quite honestly, I wouldn't leave a kid in for four HR's in one inning.
What if it were on the first 4 pitches he threw in the game and was completely healthy and rested?
Did the other team roll out sombreros? 
PS3 was once left in a game for 65 pitches in .2 innings, surrendering 13 runs -- yeah, some of you remember that outing. I'm a very forgiving dad. hehe
There are two sides to FC. Unfortunately, most people never get to see the positive side. Too bad.
PS3 was once left in a game for 65 pitches in .2 innings, surrendering 13 runs -- yeah, some of you remember that outing.
I'm a very forgiving dad. hehe There are two sides to FC. Unfortunately, most people never get to see the positive side. Too bad.
so you're using this forum to find out what kind of witchhunt to conduct, AFTER your son is finished, instead of WHILE it was happening? On top of that, you're not "comfortable" with who or where? Why not? As a former HS coach(basketball), this seems a bit questionable. The person I asked about has treated my sons quite well at his camps, and they seem to like the fact that he is "old-school".
Apparently, you don't know whom I am talking about, and that is how I wanted it...I'm not on a witch hunt...and the person I'm talking about doesn't know a thing about "old school". In my situation, I have A/one son who is done, and I respected his wishes so he could accomplish what he needed inspite of his particular coach.
You "seem" to think too much about this...I know of coaching myself and have great respect for the ones that have integrity. You might feel more comfortable letting go of this thread...I requested some information if anyone was willing to give it-I got it-I'm appreciative...you are welcome to the opinion you have made with your limited facts. The facts are limited because it concerns me, not you. Thank you for your time.
You "seem" to think too much about this...I know of coaching myself and have great respect for the ones that have integrity. You might feel more comfortable letting go of this thread...I requested some information if anyone was willing to give it-I got it-I'm appreciative...you are welcome to the opinion you have made with your limited facts. The facts are limited because it concerns me, not you. Thank you for your time.
I asked because it is my business IF it was the person I referred to b/c he coaches at the school my sons will attend, and if they are fortunate enough to make the team, I hope he is still there. In 25 years in public education, I have seen some crazy things taken to school boards about coaches who were friends, rivals, colleagues, and everything in between.
I apologize if I offended you, it just seems that doing it after the fact is not the way to go..imo.
I apologize if I offended you, it just seems that doing it after the fact is not the way to go..imo.
This may be a dumb question bottomline, but have you personally gone to the coach to discuss your concerns?
quote:Originally posted by Texan:
Four HR's in one inning is a sign of an off day from which there will be no recovery. And that is hardly a "two out jam".
It's one thing to be in a jam. Sure a pitcher needs to work his way out of a jam. Never said pitchers didn't need to do that. But just because he got in a jam doesn't mean he is having an off day.
I want a kid who if he knows something is wrong is honest enough to tell me. So he doesn't hurt the team. And if his arm is tired or hurt, I also want him to tell me. No excuse for risking serious injury.
Mental toughness does not mean that a pitcher is never honest with a coach.
Quite honestly, I wouldn't leave a kid in for four HR's in one inning.
As a coach, it is pretty easy to judge if a pitcher is just looking for an excuse to get off the mound (e.g., is lacking in mental toughness). Only had that happen once or maybe twice over the years, and both times at the younger ages.
Let’s stick to one idea at a time.
What I said was that if a kid was asking me to take him out I’d probably leave him in on principle alone (barring injury, obviously, or if it was going to seriously screw over the team). You said that was “ignorant” and if he was having an “off day” it would “benefit no one.”
My point was that it could benefit him and the team in the long run if he learned to fight through adversity.
You didn’t address any of that.
If a kid gave of 4 bombs in an inning I’d probably yank him to, but I don’t know the situation.
If a kid was honest with me about an arm injury or discomfort, I’d get him out of there too.
Any other obvious points?
sorry
ooops...internet connection issues
quote:Originally posted by Ken Guthrie:
What if it were on the first 4 pitches he threw in the game and was completely healthy and rested?
Exactly!!
Ironhorse,
I promise you, you will gain no head way with Mr. Texan.
He has unmatched experience and will continue to show his expertise in coaching concepts and ideas.
they don't pitch in t-ball regards,
Gut
I promise you, you will gain no head way with Mr. Texan.
He has unmatched experience and will continue to show his expertise in coaching concepts and ideas.
they don't pitch in t-ball regards,
Gut
quote:Originally posted by handyrandy:
so you're using this forum to find out what kind of witchhunt to conduct, AFTER your son is finished, instead of WHILE it was happening? On top of that, you're not "comfortable" with who or where? Why not? As a former HS coach(basketball), this seems a bit questionable. The person I asked about has treated my sons quite well at his camps, and they seem to like the fact that he is "old-school".
The guy is trying to get some help. I am a former coach and a current coach's wife and I am all for standing up for our colleagues, but when something seems unethical, as does this, asking for help and getting the CORRECT info is NOT a witchhunt. He has not once mentioned the guy's name. His kid was successful despite the cr*p (I didn't think that would get sensored but it did in my orignal post! ha!) he had to endure and you know as well as I do had they "opened this can of worms" during the season - he would have been retaliated against.
I'm pretty passionate about coaches, but I am more passionate about kids and the effect situations like this have on them.
These type of threads are useless. Take your story to the local ISD and let them handle it. This website is to promote high school baseball, not go after someone you deem to be unprofessional in coaching. Everyone will have a side to the story, some will like the coach and some will not.
PD,
Shut this thread down as we have seen this before. Hiding behind a username using hypothetically is a coward act.
PD,
Shut this thread down as we have seen this before. Hiding behind a username using hypothetically is a coward act.
You are assuming that this is all on the up and up, and not the rantings of a disgruntled parent. His claim that the coach "withheld water" I cannot believe, not after all the deaths that have occurred in FB and the constant warnings to hydrate kids. The districts I worked in would have fired him immediately b/c of the liability issues. I can only say that if this kind of cr*p occurred to my kid, I would not have "observed my sons wishes"-I would have been up his backside for endangering their safety.
If this coach is that bad, I can't figure out why the entire community is not after him, b/c he would deserve it. Being demanding and pushing kids is different from abusing them, and people on the outside-be they parents or whoever-often have to rely on second-hand info or gossip.
All I'm saying is that one person, doing this AFTER the fact, smells like a personal issue against the coach.
If he is that bad, by all means, he should never coach again.
If this coach is that bad, I can't figure out why the entire community is not after him, b/c he would deserve it. Being demanding and pushing kids is different from abusing them, and people on the outside-be they parents or whoever-often have to rely on second-hand info or gossip.
All I'm saying is that one person, doing this AFTER the fact, smells like a personal issue against the coach.
If he is that bad, by all means, he should never coach again.
quote:Originally posted by handyrandy:
If this coach is that bad, I can't figure out why the entire community is not after him, b/c he would deserve it.
Just a general observation. I have seen a horrible coach hang around (fortunately, not at Texan Son's HS). Why? All the parents knew that, as a rule, school administrations back up their employees. And they knew that complaining was unlikely to bring about change. But they did know that complaining would sink their son's opportunities. They knew this because they had seen it happen. So the situation continued.
There are some great coaches, some good coaches and some mediocre coaches. They work long hard hours for almost no pay. But there occasionally is a bad apple, just as is true for any other vocation.
Perhaps this is a disgruntled parent without reason to be so. Or perhaps there is a problem with the coach. I won't guess which is correct.
Texan, I couldn't have said it any better.
quote:But they did know that complaining would sink their son's opportunities.
Complaining......yes.
For standing up for what is right.........no.
If you honestly believe there is a legit problem, handle it if you feel strongly about it.
If you don't, show up and root for your kid and eliminate the focus on it. Your player will certainly feed off of your emotions towards the situation.
Bottom line.............in 10-15 years neither the parent nor the player will think about it twice.
It's life......deal with it. Just don't accept it as what's right.