Coaches Negative Comments

quote:

Kids roll with this stuff better than parents.

Might vary by the player and/or sport.
I do think you can take a highly competitive athlete, put them in a football helmet and pads and challenge them with about anything. They go hit someone, make a play, and everyone cheers and no one cares how they got motivated.
Do that s with the same player on a baseball field and our experience is that competitive, highly competitive and driven players don't roll well being called a coward, afraid, gutless and pathetic.
Say those same words to the same player who is competing every day and then spending an hour before and after practice in the training room, who is having cortisone injections and taking pain pills to play, and not only does it not roll well, it can produce both immediate, intense feelings and those that also last a long time.

I would like to clarify a few issues. My son should have told his coach earlier in the day that he could not pitch. However, he kept thinking that by some miraculous situation, he elbow would feel good enough to throw. He also knew if he went in, that he would be expected to pitch five to seven innings. Yes, he should have had that talk long before they hit the field.

I do not agree with Coach May (I believe he was the one that said this). "Too hurt to pitch, too hurt to play." This is untrue. I have seen many players with elbow issues who were able to hit and potentially play first base, etc. Throwing a ball in the high 80's repeatedly versus playing a position or batting are two very different issues.

Today, the coach did apologize to my son and state that he was out of line and was upset due to how the game before the varsity played out. That is no excuse to berate and belittle anyone. If you wouldn't speak that way to your wife or husband, children, parents, etc. then you shouldn't speak that way to a baseball player or any other athlete.

I am a firm believer that you get respect when you give respect.

Our son most likely would have never told us of this situation had we not brought it up to him. He would not want us to talk to the coach on his behalf. Yes, "kids roll with this stuff better than parents." We are like bears protecting our cubs at times. That doesn't make us bad people.

My son is not soft. Actually, he plays outside of high school for a VERY difficult coach. To be blindsided by his high school coach was very unnerving to my son. This is one reason I originally asked advice on how to handle this situation.

Seriously, there is quite a difference between a high school coach who is also a teacher that works for a school system that we support through our tax roles versus a college coach.

We aren't in little league any more and believe me, we realize this. I still say the AC was way out of line and there is NO justification for his actions.

My son does still have the respect of his teammates and he will not let this situation interfere with the rest of the season. Would we ask the AC to Thanksgiving dinner? No.

Like it often does, the situation worked itself out in twenty-four hours. This is why coaches often say if there's an issue give it twenty-four hours before going off. Chances are there won't be a need.

Some coaches won't treat players with respect the same way they treat their family. And we don't have any idea how they treat their family. It's just something that has to be dealt with from time to time.

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"Would we ask the AC to Thanksgiving dinner?"

No?

Well then how about inviting him over for leftovers on Friday?




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I have mixed feelings on this entire situation now. I didn't know that the source of the information was coming from the opposing coach, and that theyard's Family was friends with him and other players on the opposing team's roster? With that said, I'm going to surprisingly disagree with Coach May on this one.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for the words and wisdom that Coach May brings to the table on this site...I'm a Big Fan! However, I find it hard to believe that anyone would expect their son to suck it up after being verbally berated by an assistant coach. How many parents would sit idol after their 16-17 year old kid was called gutless & pathetic in front of his teammates? The AC did a Very Poor job handling the situation, whether his statement was true or not! I also believe that you can still be a Position Player (especially if you have a good stick) and not pitch. Obviously, if theYard's son was purposely ducking the other team, there should be consequences. But we'll never know the entire story, unless the HC chimes in! By the way, I'm Very Tough on my own son, and I expect him to be tough mentally and physically. I also don't mind Hard A$$ coaches, as long as they treat all the kids with respect. Would I have wanted my son to Stand Up to the AC? You Bet! But I'd want him to take the high road and do it with respect, even if he didn't receive it on his end.

I haven't been on this site long enough to be aware of the numerous "Coach Bashing" threads. I'm sure that Coach May has dealt with numerous parental issues over the years and this hit a Hot Button! I wish there was a way for the coaches in question to defend themselves. Perhaps that is what is happening here? Hopefully the issues that theyard's son is having will be rectified soon, and her next post will be good news on how well her son played in his next HS game!

No problem guys I certainly understand. First of all if a kid is too hurt to pitch he is too hurt to play the field. Why? If he is playing first base and he needs to make that cut throw to the dish and the game is on the line he is going to do it. Why take the risk? Secondly if he is elbow is too sore to pitch could he possibly hurt it more batting? I dont know and neither do you. So why take the risk?

Now I never defended the coach in this situation because I never would or will defend a coach acting in this manner if this is indeed how it went down. I don't come on here to defend coaches. If people to start five hundred coach bashing threads so be it. I just do not see where they helps anyone really deal with the issue. When the parent can no longer control the situation or have any influence over the situation what experience does the player have to draw upon to assist him in this matters?

Glad it all worked out.

16 and 17 year olds players do not need mommy and daddy taking up their battles on a baseball field or in the dugout---I am sorry this is not the way it happens---a 16/17 year is a young adult and needs to stand on his own two feet

The AC is probably a "young buck" and still feeling his way--it has now come to light that the players could have informed the coach earlier in the day that there was a potential problem---all the player needed to do was to alert the HC during the day that there might be a problem so the HC was prepared for it, not drop the bomb on him at the last minute.

I have a travel team and most of my coaching staff are "young bucks" and trust me they make their share of mistakes--they can tell that our dinner meetings or in room meetings during a tournament weekend can get pretty heated regarding their deportment and play calling--BUT they are learning and I am a salty old dog who wants perfection from them both on the field and off.

Our players also know that if they have a problem they are to come to me or one of the coaches to discuss it---do not run to your parents

I also agree with Coach May regarding "if you are too hurt too pitch you are too hurt to play"-- the worst thing for a hurt arm is a snap throw in a "get the out" situation

quote:

Originally posted by theyard:
Today, the coach did apologize to my son and state that he was out of line and was upset due to how the game before the varsity played out. That is no excuse to berate and belittle anyone. If you wouldn't speak that way to your wife or husband, children, parents, etc. then you shouldn't speak that way to a baseball player or any other athlete.

Would we ask the AC to Thanksgiving dinner? No.

People make mistakes everyday. No one can take them back, but what they can do if they are big enough people, is to admit their fault, make apologies, and move on.

From the tone of your post here, it seems as though you are not big enough to accept other peoples failings and then amends for their shortcomings. That last comment is evidence of it.

If the only people allowed at your Thanksgiving dinner table are those without fault, there's no one there to carve the turkey.

Boy, this post got everybody worked up.

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The ideal teachable moment....

IMO TWO clearly distinct issues here...Medical issues and belligerent coaches.

First, the pure medical one. There are soft/serious injuries, coaches, kids and parents. Your job as a parent is to see what kind of mix you have and act accordingly knowing that HS sports is a differnt kind of activity than a Softball game at picknick. There are mixes where I certainly would have pulled my sons or forbid them to play if the Injury/coach/player /parent mix was really risky, or just simply stupid...However in 20 seasons of HS and college ball haven't done that a single time and they played through some pretty debilitating pain and injury with calculated risk. Some of those they will carry for a lifetime but ask any serious athlete and you will find that precious few get out of sports completely unscathed, there are most often risidual knicks, dings and wear it comes with the territory, sorry. It is a trade off for the lessons learned and the experiences had.

That being said...I have an entirely different view on the second point...belligerent coaches...

Take a good look around, while there are many superior individuals out there...The world is also chock full of power hungry, egomanical, sociopathic, coaches, bosses, teachers, supervisors, doctors who work in an emotionally abusive manner. Your son will see this guy in different diguises for the rest of their lives....in their athletic endeavors in HS and college...and their academic and business careers...and the fates of their careers and their families are going to hinge at some point on your son's ability to deal with these idiots on their own. And sadly, many times they will have all the power cards and you will not be able to make them back down without risking your grades, your career, the well being of your family. The sooner your son learns to live with them and work his way around them the better. Does this make it right? no. But it does make it reality.

44
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quote:

16 and 17 year olds players do not need mommy and daddy taking up their battles on a baseball field or in the dugout---I am sorry this is not the way it happens---a 16/17 year is a young adult and needs to stand on his own two feet

Agreed, Mom and Dad should not interfere, BUT... we do expect more out of adults even "young bucks" if they are charged with handeling our kids.

Just the virtue of being 16 & 17 yrs does not give them the wisdom of how to handle situations. Years of experience gives us the guidance to deal with difficult situations, I see no reason why one would expect this young man not to discuss the situation with an adult and seek advice. I thought that was what parents do, guide their kids to make the right decisions.

I rarely disagree with Coach May, but IMO this was not Coach bashing - the coach was in error as he admitted. The kid was looking for advice, as was theyard poster. Looks like it worked out.

This is all stemed from the comunication between the player and the coach only.

Player is ultimatley responsible to notify his coach if he is unable to perform ASAP not mom or dad. In this day of text and e-mail to phones it takes seconds to get the info to the proper person.

If the player takes care of his responsibilities, this does not even occur, not saying the coach was right.

If this happened to my son I would first of all ask him. "Well were you hurt? Ok no problem then you couldnt play anyway. Did he **** you off when he said that to you? Ok. Did you get in his face and tell him that he did? Why not? Well when you decide your man enough to stand up for yourself let me know. Otherwise deal with it or turn your stuff in.


Wow, encouraging kids to get in the face of thier coach.
This is not good advice.

Yep - getting in the coaches face = bad
Sounds like someone is raising a bully rather than a man who can rationally think. Most deal better with logic and reason, rather than bluster and emotion.

Just realized CM said this - Really Coach? You have no problem with a kid getting in your face?

Folks


I don't know about Coach May but I do not have a problem with a player getting in my face---it shows he is becoming a man--in fact I tru;ly like it when the players get in my or my coaches face regarding what may be happening--it tells me they care and want to take care of it, then and now

quote:

By the way, this man is in his forties.

These young bucks, can't trust 'em before they turn fifty. Of course you kin count on them thar 16yo young men to do the right thing.

Amazing how some of these threads can get twisted because someone takes a post out of context because they couldn't be bothered to read the whole thread.

quote:

I don't know about Coach May but I do not have a problem with a player getting in my face---it shows he is becoming a man--in fact I tru;ly like it when the players get in my or my coaches face regarding what may be happening--it tells me they care and want to take care of it, then and now

I couldn't disagree with that statement more. What's missing from kids today is respect for authority, not the ability to get in one's face. They need to be taught to have civil conversations with people...not to get in the authority figure's face whenever they disagree or feel "disrespected". I don't think you mean a person has to get in your face to prove they care and want to take care of things....but if you do, that's sad.

We all would love for our 16/17 year old's to stand up for themselves, that's a No Brainer! But How it's done separates right and wrong IMHO. I was that kid that would have gotten into the coaches grill when I was seventeen...I was Hothead, and I don't want my son to be like that! A very good player here in California (potential high round draft pick) felt the need to get in the coaches face, and the heated arguement turned physical. Now he's unfortunately missing his senior year, and who knows how it's going to affect his status in the future?

As far as the "arm situation" in relation to Can't Pitch...then Can't Play a Position on the field goes, I'm still going to disagree with CM & TR. I don't know theyard's son's abilities on the baseball field? But I would think that if a player has an excellent stick and can still contribute on the field, they'd find a place for him. I would be willing to bet that the majority of coaches that contribute to this site would find a place for a kid in that situation. Last year, my then Sophomore son was going to be the Varsity Closer, and play the OF. Unfortunately he sprained his UCL, and missed five weeks to rehab his elbow. He was released to play the OF, but was advised to take it slow by the Orthopaedic Surgeon before toeing the rubber again. I'm thankful that his HS & Summer Coach still allowed him to play the OF without his services on the mound! Believe me, I know my son wanted to pitch, but that was secondary compared to his overall arm health.

Like I stated earlier, hopefully everything is okay with the original poster's situation...and the next post we read from "theyard" is how well her son is doing!

I take exception that some are making CM look like the bad guy. My son can play anyday for Coach May, and I don't care if he has to get in his face or not.
In no way did he say that the player should have gotten in the coaches face, all he was saying is that they have to learn to handle it themselves, which the player seemed to be trying to do, if he didn't handle it right going to the coach earlier and that set teh coach off, then you learn from those mistakes. BTW, appeard to me that CM was only giving a scenerio between him and his son.

And he was right, that if you are hurt you are hurt, any coach my son ever played for if he said he couldn't pitch but ready to take the field and hit, he'd get ripped and those coaches wouldn't care who was listening. He might have even been asked to leave.

theyard, you said that you came asking for advice, but it seems that you had already taken steps (your husband called the HC that evening) so I was just wondering why you asked for advice?

The way I see it, most coaches take their job seriously, we as parents see it as power hungry individuals, I have never seen that ever, so we must be lucky.

As far as coach bashing, I think the reference is about the many posts that have shown up lately regarding problems with players and coaches and it always seems to be the coaches fault (for whatever reason). And yes there have been some things said about parents that have been uncalled for. Most of us are parents here, and it's our job as parents to help others understand how it all works. Now some of that may be some tough love we give each other, but in reality isn't that how we all learn by giving tough love?

Yes, I would be livid if that had happened to my son (sleak to him when others were listening and hope that conversations would be held in private) but regardless of how it went down, I would have told him he needs to handle it on his own (I don't care what age he was) and I would NOT have gotten involved.

This is a very difficult game, with very high expectations on every level, and IMO one of the biggest things in becoming succssful later on, is learning, at a young age, how to deal with all types of coaches and managers because you are going to find them different wherever you go.

IMHO there is varying definitions from every person in regard to getting "in a coaches face" and the key is "with respect". My guess is most coaches had pretty competitive streak themselves in HS and if they had something constructive to say they probably did. The learning portion is about picking your battles, the time, the place, and making sure the remarks are coming out the right end.

Here's what getting in your coach's face looks like...never acceptable, not even for the straw that stirs the drink.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
I take exception that some are making CM look like the bad guy. My son can play anyday for Coach May, and I don't care if he has to get in his face or not.

For the record, I'm in NO way trying to make CM look like a bad guy! If you read one of my earlier posts, I stated that I have a tremendous amount of respect for what he brings to this site. I've been on here for a short time, but I recognized immediately that he is one of the good guys. I would say that I agree with 99.9% of his advice, and he obviously helps a lot of kids and parents. This just happens for me to be one of those .01% times that I disagree. No Big Deal, I will continue to read his posts and the great advice he dishes out to all of us!

TX-Husker, that is "in your face", but who is in who's face? My only point was if someone says...

"He was in my face"
"I'm going to get in his face"

Some may see the incident and say "he was not in your face", or, "You call that getting in his face, you looked like a beat-down puppy dog?" It's all a perception. I have my "in-face" perception, Coach May has his, and everyone else in this world is also entitled to their own. I'm sure everyone here at some time has been accused of getting in someones face and you end up shrugging your shoulders and saying it was only a conversation.

Who knows really how this situation, or any other plays out in real time . But it's great discussion board fodder.

I understand, rz. It's hard to say when you're not there in the moment. I guess my point is a coach can get in a players face at times with certain types of people. I do understand that's effective and maybe even necessary..at times. I'm just a believer in praise in public, criticize in private. Rarely, does that not work from the top down...in my experience. I cannot imagine a scenario short of physical harm that would justify my son getting in his coach's face.

quote:

I'm just a believer in praise in public, criticize in private.

We are definitely on the same page and that private/public factor put things a whole different light.

Good point for rz, it means different things to different people. To me getting in your face also might mean getting a butt chewing. And it's just an expression.

What I meant in my statement was that CM is a pretty knowledgeable guy, and a very good coach, so if my player needed a strong talking too because he wasn't doing what he was suppose to, that's ok with me. But the player should always remember his place, he is the player, the other guy is the coach. There should always be that respect shown, even if you can't stand the guy.

JMO.

And, that's what we mean by violent agreement!

quote:

I cannot imagine a scenario short of physical harm that would justify my son getting in his coach's face.

You often see pitchers, at all ages, who shows his "displeasure" on a coaching decision to yank him with either facial expression, body language, or maybe a back-n-forth conversation while the coach is on the mound. Everyone knows they are not discussing the weather, but it is obvious the pitcher wants to stay in and is not happy with the coaches decision.

Is that an action of "showing up the coach", expressing public "dissatisfaction" toward the coach, or just being a competitive athlete?

You don't have to show up your coach in front of the players, coaches and fans on both sides to express your opinion. Once expressed, it's the coach's call and the players job to respect and support the decision. If he can't do that, he doesn't belong on the TEAM.

IMHO I'd rather see a pitcher leave a game with an attitude rather than with his tail between his legs accepting defeat. If need be, a coach can have a "discussion" after the game if he sees the attitude disruptive to the team.

Different strokes for different folks. My view is a pitcher that can't control his emotions on the mound, can't be trusted to control the game from it.

Good discussion. I have never and will never demean a player in front of his team mates , fans , opposing team , etc etc. Never have and never will. It serves no purpose other than to have your team , that player and everyone that sees it lose respect for you. And its just not right. Like I said many times already if this situation went down the way it was posted the coach was dead wrong.

Now if a player has a problem with me I want that player to come to me. I do not expect him to go behind my back I expect him to come to me. If I have a problem with a player I am going to go to him. I am not going to go behind his back. I am going to do it at a time and place that is appropriate. And I expect the same from the player as well.

My whole point and people can disagree and thats fine. In a situation like this the player needs to go to the coach and tell him how it made him feel. He needs to go to the coach and tell him he does not appreciate the way he was treated. And he needs to go to his head coach and tell him the same thing. Just like the player should expect the same thing from his coach if the coach is upset with the player.

Do I get in players faces? If its a team issue I get in the teams face. If they are not ready to play , if they are not giving the effort I demand or mental focus I will get in the teams face and let them know. If its a single player I will get him to the side and let him know exactly what the problem is and what I expect him to do about it. Now I expect the same thing in return. If a player feels that I have not treated him fairly I want and expect him to come to me and tell me exactly how he feels. I respect that. I do not respect him going behind my back and b*tching and moaning about something and he wouldnt expect me to do the same thing to him.

My players are told by me that if they have a problem with me or dont like something to come to me and we can talk man to man. They also know I am going to defend them and fight for them if needed. And they know I am never going to say anything about them in a negative manner in front of anyone at anytime. And they know if I have a problem I will come to them.

This situation if it happened as reported was wrong and I have not defended it and never would. What I did say is the player FIRST needs to address it with the AC and the HC. They need to know the player is not going to except this and he is going to stand up for himself.

I coach in practice HARD. I demand mental focus and a tremendous work ethic. If I need to make a point I make a point. Its always done to teach and learn. In games I hardly say a word other than something positive and encourage. Thats just my style. I am glad this worked out for the player.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:
IMHO I'd rather see a pitcher leave a game with an attitude rather than with his tail between his legs accepting defeat. If need be, a coach can have a "discussion" after the game if he sees the attitude disruptive to the team.

Junior had a pretty heated conversation with his coach during a big game a few weeks ago on the mound...a bunch of scouts were there. One of the scouts that was there, came to see him again later in the week and was chatting me up. He laughed about the episode. His comment was, "I can always tame the tiger, but I've never been able to make a tiger out of a lamb".

Some players like the tough coaches.

Looks like my son will need to change summer teams as his current team is folding. He has the opportunity to play for a hard a**, crazy coach he played for two years ago. His response? "He's my favorite coach ever". He wants to play for him. This coach benches players for bad slides. Calls them out for messing up. He treats everyone the same, and some kids don't like it.

My point isn't that this is the same situation, so no need to point out that out. My point is that a little crazy can be ok for some players, and some players actually prefer playing for the tough ones. My son's least favorite coaches? The ones who never get riled up, and never hold players accountable.

Back to the current discussion: I'm with Coach May on this one.

twotex

You have a PM

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
I guess my point is a coach can get in a players face at times with certain types of people. I do understand that's effective and maybe even necessary..at times.

What about that HS coach who watches to much ESPN, or was brow-beat by a coach while he was growing up and thinks it's his God given right to berate players publicly regardless of the issue. He's the guy who as adults we would categorize as a "real dick".

If he is out of line. and everyone feels that way, who stands up for the team and/or the players?

Many here say that parents should stay well away, but, at the same time they say players shouldn't challenge a coach. The possible answers are..........

1. A player
2. A group of players
3. A parent
4. A group of parents
5. A group of players and parents and the AD
6. Deal with it because it's his team

It looks like a poll question to me

quote:

If he is out of line. and everyone feels that way, who stands up for the team and/or the players?

The team captain(s)...

Sounds like a lack of communication.....the kid should have made sure the coaches were aware of his injury instaed of just assuming they knew....there is nothing more aggravating than getting to the a field and a kid decides to tell you they cant play for one reason or another.....

aonther question......
is this as big of a deal to your son? or this this coming from only a parents viewpoint?

quote:

We all would love for our 16/17 year old's to stand up for themselves, that's a No Brainer! But How it's done separates right and wrong IMHO.

Yes How it is done is what seperates right from wrong. I don't see anyway that "get in your coaches face", can be interpeted as the right way.

However the player asking to speak with the assistant or head coach, and going over the situation calmly is the right approach.