HERE IS MY ALL TIME FAVORITE!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSH1KH4Bcj4
quote:Originally posted by Dear old Dad:
CoachB25,
This thread was started in an attempt to hear about some trick plays. You and some other posters had nothing to offer yet felt compelled to hijack this thread to promote your own personal coaching philosophy. Is that rude or discourteous?
I reread all the posts and there are some subtle and not so subtle insults aimed at any coach who uses trick plays. From the start of this thread, TripleDad was put on the defensive when all he wanted was some friendly input on trick plays.
So, I stand by my earlier statement, I do not want a lecture on the do's and don'ts of coaching in this thread. If I did, I would start a thread asking for advice.
Hijack a thread? The topic of any coaching theory would not only involve the discussion of that topic but would also involve the negative of such a train of thought. In my previous posts, I disucssed one of many thoughts on the preparation of defending "trick plays" namely having a pitcher "stepping off" at any given time which was the point of setting the situation up with both the runner and the 2nd baseman. I WOULD THINK THAT MOST POSTERS WOULD FIND SUCH CONTRIBUTION AS PERTINENT TO THIS DISCUSSION. Suggesting that "subtle" reference are made against any coaching philosophy by either Tom or myself is to demonstrate that you lack any understanding of Tom or myself. "Subtle" is not a word usually used with regards to our positions on anything. I gave my position on this topic and TripleDad responded. We're both good to go.
I was thinking about the time issue. If I was a HS coach, given the time restraints involved, just getting them ready to play with the basics would be difficult enough!
Heck, With my young ones, tryouts are in the fall, we may play a few games Sept. Oct. Then they get a few months off until Jan. We work indoors until late mid Mar. From there we go hard until August.
And with the 16+ players, they play their HS ball and when their last game ends they are usually headed to a tourny with their summer team that next weekend. Again, time is in short supply.
Heck, With my young ones, tryouts are in the fall, we may play a few games Sept. Oct. Then they get a few months off until Jan. We work indoors until late mid Mar. From there we go hard until August.
And with the 16+ players, they play their HS ball and when their last game ends they are usually headed to a tourny with their summer team that next weekend. Again, time is in short supply.
I have just now read this entire thread. I have no tricks, but just a couple quick comments regarding a couple situations mentioned.
The first one has to do with the catcher who put the ball inside his chest protector. Baseball rules say that if the ball is lodged in (or in between) the catcher's or umpire's equipment, then it is a dead ball and all baserunners will advance one base.
The second one is more philisophical. Somebody had mentioned that they don't like it when the kids throw to bases unecessarily. I always encourage young players to throw to bases (either ahead or behind the runners).
My reasoning is that if they think they have any chance at all to get a runner out, I want them throwing. When they are aggressive like that and not fearful of the repercussions of making errors, they simply become better players. The thrower gets better, the receiver gets better at catching and tagging, and ultimately all the players involved get better. That is really one of the reasons to coach young players....to assist them in getting better.
A team which has coaches who tell them "don't throw the ball around" on a regular basis will have players who do not improve as much as the team whose coaches encourage them to throw it around.
The first one has to do with the catcher who put the ball inside his chest protector. Baseball rules say that if the ball is lodged in (or in between) the catcher's or umpire's equipment, then it is a dead ball and all baserunners will advance one base.
The second one is more philisophical. Somebody had mentioned that they don't like it when the kids throw to bases unecessarily. I always encourage young players to throw to bases (either ahead or behind the runners).
My reasoning is that if they think they have any chance at all to get a runner out, I want them throwing. When they are aggressive like that and not fearful of the repercussions of making errors, they simply become better players. The thrower gets better, the receiver gets better at catching and tagging, and ultimately all the players involved get better. That is really one of the reasons to coach young players....to assist them in getting better.
A team which has coaches who tell them "don't throw the ball around" on a regular basis will have players who do not improve as much as the team whose coaches encourage them to throw it around.
quote:Originally posted by Dear old Dad:
1.) Coach needs a baserunner. Calls the on deck batter into the dugout and rubs a baseball on the kids elbow until there is a red mark. When the kid is at the plate he pretends an inside pitch hit him and shows the umpire the mark as proof. Similarities to this one are used at all levels of baseball as players try to have loose fitting uniforms to work their way on base any way they can.
2.) Runners on 1st and 3rd and less than 2 outs. Batter hits fly ball but not deep enough to score the runner from 3rd. The batter gets to 1st base just as the ball is being caught. When the catch is made he sprints for 2nd base. The goal of this play is to entice the fielder who caught the ball to throw it to 2nd base, allowing the runner on 3rd base to score. The trick to this play is that the runner on 1st base is still there and is not at risk. The batter is already out when he sprints for 2nd base and cannot be put out again.
3.) This play is the lowest of the low and people still don't beleive me when I tell it to them. Runner slides safely into 3rd base and the play should be over as the 3rd baseman has the ball. The 3rd base coach in a menacing way says to the 3rd baseman, "What did you do to that ball? Let me see it." When the 3rd baseman tosses the ball to the coach he sends his runner home. This play was actually done in a freshman H.S. game.
quote:Originally posted by TripleDad:
Coach, the high horse comment was probably in response to posters insenuating those of us that do use plays are either unethical, disrespecting the game, or just bad coaches.
The three plays listed above are all unethical, disrespecting the game, and used by bush league and bad coaches.
In your examples you are literally asking a kid to fake an injury and lie, and having a grown man intentionally embarrass a 14 year-old boy.
Freaking embarassing. Sorry if that's high horse-ish.
quote:Originally posted by ironhorse:quote:Originally posted by Dear old Dad:
1.) Coach needs a baserunner. Calls the on deck batter into the dugout and rubs a baseball on the kids elbow until there is a red mark. When the kid is at the plate he pretends an inside pitch hit him and shows the umpire the mark as proof. Similarities to this one are used at all levels of baseball as players try to have loose fitting uniforms to work their way on base any way they can.
2.) Runners on 1st and 3rd and less than 2 outs. Batter hits fly ball but not deep enough to score the runner from 3rd. The batter gets to 1st base just as the ball is being caught. When the catch is made he sprints for 2nd base. The goal of this play is to entice the fielder who caught the ball to throw it to 2nd base, allowing the runner on 3rd base to score. The trick to this play is that the runner on 1st base is still there and is not at risk. The batter is already out when he sprints for 2nd base and cannot be put out again.
3.) This play is the lowest of the low and people still don't beleive me when I tell it to them. Runner slides safely into 3rd base and the play should be over as the 3rd baseman has the ball. The 3rd base coach in a menacing way says to the 3rd baseman, "What did you do to that ball? Let me see it." When the 3rd baseman tosses the ball to the coach he sends his runner home. This play was actually done in a freshman H.S. game.quote:Originally posted by TripleDad:
Coach, the high horse comment was probably in response to posters insenuating those of us that do use plays are either unethical, disrespecting the game, or just bad coaches.
The three plays listed above are all unethical, disrespecting the game, and used by bush league and bad coaches.
In your examples you are literally asking a kid to fake an injury and lie, and having a grown man intentionally embarrass a 14 year-old boy.
Freaking embarassing. Sorry if that's high horse-ish.
Ironhorse, I agree with you completely that those plays are an embarassment. I would never attempt any of those plays. In fact, they're worse than an embarassment. I have seen them though. And this thread is about trick plays. So I see nothing embarassing about posting them. After all, this is a thread about trick plays. So, because this is a thread about trick plays, I mentioned them along with a couple of trick plays that I have used.
quote:Originally posted by TripleDad:
HERE IS MY ALL TIME FAVORITE!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSH1KH4Bcj4
Did you notice that the stands were completely empty.... I think this was a setup
Yes Cong, it looks like a comedy spoof!
Entertaining though.
Entertaining though.
quote:Originally posted by Dear old Dad:
Ironhorse, I agree with you completely that those plays are an embarassment. I would never attempt any of those plays. In fact, they're worse than an embarassment. I have seen them though. And this thread is about trick plays. So I see nothing embarassing about posting them. After all, this is a thread about trick plays. So, because this is a thread about trick plays, I mentioned them along with a couple of trick plays that I have used.
Fair enough.
quote:The first one has to do with the catcher who put the ball inside his chest protector. Baseball rules say that if the ball is lodged in (or in between) the catcher's or umpire's equipment, then it is a dead ball and all baserunners will advance one base.
I wish I would have known that rule then. I would have argued it! But I thought that rule only applied to the umpire. (dead ball) And are you sure about the runners advancing?
quote:The three plays listed above are all unethical, disrespecting the game, and used by bush league and bad coaches.
In your examples you are literally asking a kid to fake an injury and lie, and having a grown man intentionally embarrass a 14 year-old boy.
#1 & #3 Yes. #2 basic trick play, have seen it often and doesn't bother me. Usually base ump foils it anyway.
quote:The second one is more philisophical. Somebody had mentioned that they don't like it when the kids throw to bases unecessarily. I always encourage young players to throw to bases (either ahead or behind the runners).
At 7 and 8. We stop the lead runner and let the ball die. Don't throw it around because a swingen bunt will turn into a home run.
At 9 and 10 we throw the ball all over the place, it kills us early in the season, but at the end of the season it makes a HUGE difference in our defense.
At 11, 12, 13 we do throw behind runners, but now were into more situational plays. During a routine play I don't want my kids throwing to bases where there is no chance for an out. Especially at third.
Here is a play for 11-12 only. 10u the kids are not good enough & 13+ the fields are too big.
Man on third, catcher intentionally overthrows third on attempted pick. My leftfielder is right there backing it up. I want my leftfielder to be there obvious. I don't want to make this play at home plate. Usually what happens is the runner3 breaks for home as soon as the ball passes, but third base coach realizing the play has been backed up "BACK" "BACK"!! The ball is already on its way to third.
Here is how I call my plays in: My plays are all numbers. Sometimes a play may involve up to 5 6 players. It is difficult to give a hand signal and know that everyone got it, I don't want to tip off the other coach either. Like I said my plays are numbers
I will yell them out like this. If the play is a 23
I will yell "YOUR WAY 23" or "LOOK ALIVE 23" OR "GET IN THE GAME 23". I don't have a 23 player on field but my kids get the signal and it appears to the other coach the standard baseball babble
from the the coach.
So in the above play, I call the number. My catcher knows to overthrow, my left fielder is coming over early for backup, the pitcher is coming over to back up the throw to third, and first base is coming to back up home or be there for the run down if there is one. Not a very tricky play but effective and doesnt take long to put in.
I may be old school, as they say, but why spend time teaching kids to make an error
In my book not proper teaching
In my book not proper teaching
Jeez TR
Not an error, a throw.
The TIME spent on that play vs. the reward makes the time spent insignificant. As far as time goes I usually have plenty of it. Pracitices go 2 hours. The first 1.5 hour is spent doing what I want to get done that day. The last half hour we either play games(wiffle ball, elimination etc..fun tuff)or work on plays/situationals or sometimes the dreaded coach speech. Different every practice.
Not an error, a throw.
The TIME spent on that play vs. the reward makes the time spent insignificant. As far as time goes I usually have plenty of it. Pracitices go 2 hours. The first 1.5 hour is spent doing what I want to get done that day. The last half hour we either play games(wiffle ball, elimination etc..fun tuff)or work on plays/situationals or sometimes the dreaded coach speech. Different every practice.
quote:I don't have a trick play other than the standard 1st and 3rd situations both offensively and defensively.
Obviously, the usual portfolio of plays on 1st and third aren't really "trick" plays per se, but it does bring up an interesting point:
practicing 1st & 3rd plays in my opinion is one of the BEST ways to practice fundamentals. It has a little bit of everything: baserunning, catcher throw downs, rundowns, lots of catch and throw, reading situations, etc.
So, at least in this case, practicing these plays is a great way to develop fundamentals. I am wondering if there are any real trick plays that are actually well suited to developing fundamentals when they are practiced?
Guys
Look at the young players in the bigs ., Many are so unsound fun****etally it is sickening
Trick plays don't win games---solid baseball does---that will never change
Look at the young players in the bigs ., Many are so unsound fun****etally it is sickening
Trick plays don't win games---solid baseball does---that will never change
TR you getting a bit repetitive.
Do you agree that practing all the variations on 1st & 3rd situations is a good way to develop fundamentals?
Do you agree that practing all the variations on 1st & 3rd situations is a good way to develop fundamentals?
Rob
Sorry if you feel that way
Are you talking fundamentals in those situations or "trick plays"?
Sorry if you feel that way
Are you talking fundamentals in those situations or "trick plays"?
I'm talking about practicing the various 1st and 3rd plays, and the defense against things such as the delayed steal where pitcher steps off, runner intentionally tries to get in rundown to get the runner on 3rd home.
I've seen teams spend 15 minutes every practice doing this, because it practices baserunning, pitching from stretch, throw downs, run downs - lots of fundamentals.
I've seen teams spend 15 minutes every practice doing this, because it practices baserunning, pitching from stretch, throw downs, run downs - lots of fundamentals.
In that case I am with you--no problem
quote:I'm talking about practicing the various 1st and 3rd plays, and the defense against things such as the delayed steal where pitcher steps off, runner intentionally tries to get in rundown to get the runner on 3rd home.
I've seen teams spend 15 minutes every practice doing this, because it practices baserunning, pitching from stretch, throw downs, run downs - lots of fundamentals
Rob, yep, it also teaches a kid to "THINK AND REACT"
and know the situation in real time. We could start a thread on the first and third situation alone. There are tons of variables; Delayed steals, throw throughs, multiple cutoffs, pick plays etc.. Great stuff!!
quote:So, at least in this case, practicing these plays is a great way to develop fundamentals. I am wondering if there are any real trick plays that are actually well suited to developing fundamentals when they are practiced?
The interesting thing about teaching a situational play/trick play is...if you put a play in defensively, you are also teaching the offensive counter and vise versa. A coach should not put one in without the other. A quick example:
Pick play at 1st: As a coach I observe the opposing baserunners closely. Let's say at 1st base there is a runner that either glances back at first while taking the lead, takes the lead too ubruptly, or has really bad foot work. I have a pick play for those situations(and we practice it). While teaching the team this pick play I am also reinforcing the importance of how to lead off properly offensively. You can show/tell a kid a million times, but to demonstrate WHY has impact.
I was watching a game (HS) with my 13yr old this spring. Runner on first popping off the base way to fast. My son says, "that kid is an out against us"!
I say "yup, you noticed?"! Every kid on my team would have noticed!!!!
Now, you may say that is not a trick play, but it IS a play; it's called by the coach, signaled to the catcher, catcher runs the play. It takes work and timing. Many coaches may say it is not worth their time. It is worth my time!!
Hello to All:
We have a couple of plays that would qualify as trick plays. However, they all have been done at a level much higher than 12-16 yo's that I coach. One has been done to win a College World Series. Anyone remember the AJ Pierzynski play in the World Series two years back?
When it comes to those who state that practicing trick plays is a waste of time in comparison to practicing fundamentals, here is the list of fundamentals that are practiced when we practice our trick plays(these take maybe 20 minutes out of six hours of practice time) :
1) All pick-off moves and requisite footwork ... which we use anyways
2) Pitchers backing up bases
3) Outfielders backing up throws correctly and at the correct time ... most outfielders are very tardy
4) Diving and sliding catch fundamentals
5) Run-downs as they often result afterwards
6) Where pitchers must go when a player is picked off at a particular base
7) Cut-off communication
8) Pitch-outs and proper catcher footwork and quickness
9) Naturally, we work on baserunning fundamentals, and how to get out of run-down
10) Pitchers learning to change tempos to hold runners close
These are just those I can remember.
I hate to waste practice time as much as the next coach, but why would you not work on your fundamentals as you work on your trick plays. If all you do is the actual trick part of the play, I agree practice time is better spent elsewhere.
By the way, I have done classroom-type practices, and the kids love these. That way, when we are on the field, I do not have to introduce how to run the play, we only have to execute how to finish the out.
Finally, trick plays educate kids on opposing teams. I welcome when other teams try stuff on us. It is only for the betterment of our players.
Coach JD
We have a couple of plays that would qualify as trick plays. However, they all have been done at a level much higher than 12-16 yo's that I coach. One has been done to win a College World Series. Anyone remember the AJ Pierzynski play in the World Series two years back?
When it comes to those who state that practicing trick plays is a waste of time in comparison to practicing fundamentals, here is the list of fundamentals that are practiced when we practice our trick plays(these take maybe 20 minutes out of six hours of practice time) :
1) All pick-off moves and requisite footwork ... which we use anyways
2) Pitchers backing up bases
3) Outfielders backing up throws correctly and at the correct time ... most outfielders are very tardy
4) Diving and sliding catch fundamentals
5) Run-downs as they often result afterwards
6) Where pitchers must go when a player is picked off at a particular base
7) Cut-off communication
8) Pitch-outs and proper catcher footwork and quickness
9) Naturally, we work on baserunning fundamentals, and how to get out of run-down
10) Pitchers learning to change tempos to hold runners close
These are just those I can remember.
I hate to waste practice time as much as the next coach, but why would you not work on your fundamentals as you work on your trick plays. If all you do is the actual trick part of the play, I agree practice time is better spent elsewhere.
By the way, I have done classroom-type practices, and the kids love these. That way, when we are on the field, I do not have to introduce how to run the play, we only have to execute how to finish the out.
Finally, trick plays educate kids on opposing teams. I welcome when other teams try stuff on us. It is only for the betterment of our players.
Coach JD
Tripledad, at the high school level and above, I truly believe that kind of thing should be picked up by a catcher, 1st baseman, or pitcher without the coach having to call it. I know I have found myself specifically looking for that kind of thing. And at the same time, I've noticed teammates doing the same kind of thing and it's a quick correction.
Bulld, a big maybe.
Often times it is subtle, especially poor footwork
Often times it is subtle, especially poor footwork
quote:Originally posted by Bulldog 19:
Tripledad, at the high school level and above, I truly believe that kind of thing should be picked up by a catcher, 1st baseman, or pitcher without the coach having to call it. I know I have found myself specifically looking for that kind of thing. And at the same time, I've noticed teammates doing the same kind of thing and it's a quick correction.
Many HS catchers fear the wrath of his coach for throwing to first. Thus having the coach call the play is a good way to build/show confidence in a catcher (i.e. how many times have you heard a youth coach scream at a catcher for throwing to a base?)
A valuable pick off play for a catcher is "the casual fake throwback" to the pitcher. This is effective when you get a runner on first that likes to maintain a large lead until the catcher tosses the ball back to the pitcher. The catcher sets up the runner by:
1. Catch ball
2. Walk in front of home plate w/o looking at the runner
3. Casually Toss ball back to the pitcher
4. Catch ball
5. Walk in front of home plate w/o looking at the runner
6. Step towards pithcer but throw to first.
The first time my son used this play was against a HS team with a really good reputation for running the bases. He caught the runner looking at his coach and the coach looking at his runner. Neither one of them saw it coming. Their leads were much shorter the rest of the game.
Dear Old Dad talked about a 2nd & 3rd play. We saw that several times at tournaments and came up with a defensive play to counter it.
Close game,2 outs, runners at 2nd & 3rd. 3rd base coach is getting R2 to take a big lead so that he can score on a hit. The defensive coach starts the play by calling for the catcher to "Get his head in the game" (You can pick your own signal). The catcher gets down to give the sign. The pitcher is looking in for the sign. The catcher puts his fist into the mit, this signals the ss to run as fast as he can to 2nd. The pitcher still hasn't looked at the runners. When SS breaks the catcher removes his fist from the mit. That signals the pitcher to properly turn and fire the ball directly to 2nd. The ss should be there by the time the ball gets there. R2 usually breaks after the SS does and is usually out. After all he has been watching the pitcher for any looks, and didn't see any.
This is a timing play. It will only work once. But in a close game, later innings when you need that out - it can give your team the mental boost to go on for the win.
Close game,2 outs, runners at 2nd & 3rd. 3rd base coach is getting R2 to take a big lead so that he can score on a hit. The defensive coach starts the play by calling for the catcher to "Get his head in the game" (You can pick your own signal). The catcher gets down to give the sign. The pitcher is looking in for the sign. The catcher puts his fist into the mit, this signals the ss to run as fast as he can to 2nd. The pitcher still hasn't looked at the runners. When SS breaks the catcher removes his fist from the mit. That signals the pitcher to properly turn and fire the ball directly to 2nd. The ss should be there by the time the ball gets there. R2 usually breaks after the SS does and is usually out. After all he has been watching the pitcher for any looks, and didn't see any.
This is a timing play. It will only work once. But in a close game, later innings when you need that out - it can give your team the mental boost to go on for the win.
If there are 2 outs just make the play at first, inning over.
Offensively the runner at 2nd should not be taking an unusually large lead anyway.
If I have a runner get picked for the last out with a man on third, he's running poles.
To defend the double squeeze play is very easy. It is just a matter of teaching your defense the situation AND being aware when the offense has it on.
Offensively the runner at 2nd should not be taking an unusually large lead anyway.
If I have a runner get picked for the last out with a man on third, he's running poles.
To defend the double squeeze play is very easy. It is just a matter of teaching your defense the situation AND being aware when the offense has it on.
I keep hearing about no time to teach plays. I don't understand it. I must be blessed. I coach a Varsity HS team. If my kids can't demonstrate an understanding and execution of the "fundamentals" they are not on my team.
That being said, here are a few I take the "time" to teach.
Runner on second. Pitcher goes for the pick, pretends to overthrow, but hides the ball against his side. Makes a motion that he is upset and hangs his head. Second baseman dives toward second, shortstop dives for second, center fielder turns and runs to the fence, everyone else on the field yells "Get the Ball!" and points toward centerfield. Pitcher sprints toward second base. We catch the runner in between and tag him out.
Runner on second. Pitcher has 2-0 count on batter. I go to the mound and pretend to chew out my pitcher. Pitcher hangs his head, pretends to be upset or distraught and goes into the wind-up. No one else on the team reminds him about the runner, so he stays in the wind-up. Usually, a coach worth his salt will notice and pull the runner farther away. Now, with a wide arc of the pitcher's arms, over the head, my pitcher steps back with his pivot foot.(must be practiced to avoid the balk) and spins to pick. Works over 70%.
Offense: Squeeze variation. 1st and 3rd, or 3rd. I yell, "Let's go, I need a run". Runner on third goes when the pitcher comes set. Has to be on the set, not the motion. We are trying to force a balk. If we can't, pitcher will make a throw to home, my batter hits the ball.
Alternate, we have the runner on 1st walk to second. Runner on third takes two m ore steps, then sprints home during the commotion at second.
All within the rules.
That being said, here are a few I take the "time" to teach.
Runner on second. Pitcher goes for the pick, pretends to overthrow, but hides the ball against his side. Makes a motion that he is upset and hangs his head. Second baseman dives toward second, shortstop dives for second, center fielder turns and runs to the fence, everyone else on the field yells "Get the Ball!" and points toward centerfield. Pitcher sprints toward second base. We catch the runner in between and tag him out.
Runner on second. Pitcher has 2-0 count on batter. I go to the mound and pretend to chew out my pitcher. Pitcher hangs his head, pretends to be upset or distraught and goes into the wind-up. No one else on the team reminds him about the runner, so he stays in the wind-up. Usually, a coach worth his salt will notice and pull the runner farther away. Now, with a wide arc of the pitcher's arms, over the head, my pitcher steps back with his pivot foot.(must be practiced to avoid the balk) and spins to pick. Works over 70%.
Offense: Squeeze variation. 1st and 3rd, or 3rd. I yell, "Let's go, I need a run". Runner on third goes when the pitcher comes set. Has to be on the set, not the motion. We are trying to force a balk. If we can't, pitcher will make a throw to home, my batter hits the ball.
Alternate, we have the runner on 1st walk to second. Runner on third takes two m ore steps, then sprints home during the commotion at second.
All within the rules.
MVHS,
Question on your Squeeze variation. Doesn't the pitcher just fake to third, then get the runner un a rundown? Could you explain what typically happens during this play with the ball? I'm having a hard time seeing the pitcher balk because he should be looking right at the runner at that time. What % of success do you have?
I like and have used with success , your other plays. I've never seen the play at second fail, except in practice. I've always wondered if we would look foolish or what?
BTW, have you or anyone else heard of the "Norwegian play". I was chatting with a coach at a tournament and he said he saw and was going to try it. He would not explain it at all, thinking he would use it on us sometime.
Question on your Squeeze variation. Doesn't the pitcher just fake to third, then get the runner un a rundown? Could you explain what typically happens during this play with the ball? I'm having a hard time seeing the pitcher balk because he should be looking right at the runner at that time. What % of success do you have?
I like and have used with success , your other plays. I've never seen the play at second fail, except in practice. I've always wondered if we would look foolish or what?
BTW, have you or anyone else heard of the "Norwegian play". I was chatting with a coach at a tournament and he said he saw and was going to try it. He would not explain it at all, thinking he would use it on us sometime.
mvhs, Imho your fist play at second is bush and any coach worth his salt is not going to use it for fear the next time his team comes up to the plate someone gets it. get it? This might work in youth ball and I'm sure you've used it many times w/ success.still a bush play.
Coach Labeots,
At the HS level, most, if not all pitchers, pitch from the wind-up when a runner is on third. Now this changes during a 1st and 3rd. 1st and 3rd, we will use the walking steal, delayed steal, or the "trip/falldown".
Success is determined by the level of the pitcher. A competent pitcher with a good pick move to first, will seldom balk. Therefore my batter has to save my runner. Success is 60% so far. I've encounter some good match-ups with catcher and pitcher, where the pitcher will pitch-out as the runner comes.
Now, for a weak pitcher, success jumps to 100%. Either I get the balk or the pitcher hangs the ball.
Overall success for this play is 75%. Not many practice preventing the forced balk. As you probably guess, this is something we do practice.
I've never heard of a "norwegian" play. Or at least a play called that. If you find out what it is, I'd love to hear it.
At the HS level, most, if not all pitchers, pitch from the wind-up when a runner is on third. Now this changes during a 1st and 3rd. 1st and 3rd, we will use the walking steal, delayed steal, or the "trip/falldown".
Success is determined by the level of the pitcher. A competent pitcher with a good pick move to first, will seldom balk. Therefore my batter has to save my runner. Success is 60% so far. I've encounter some good match-ups with catcher and pitcher, where the pitcher will pitch-out as the runner comes.
Now, for a weak pitcher, success jumps to 100%. Either I get the balk or the pitcher hangs the ball.
Overall success for this play is 75%. Not many practice preventing the forced balk. As you probably guess, this is something we do practice.
I've never heard of a "norwegian" play. Or at least a play called that. If you find out what it is, I'd love to hear it.
quote:Runner on second. Pitcher goes for the pick, pretends to overthrow, but hides the ball against his side. Makes a motion that he is upset and hangs his head. Second baseman dives toward second, shortstop dives for second, center fielder turns and runs to the fence, everyone else on the field yells "Get the Ball!" and points toward centerfield. Pitcher sprints toward second base. We catch the runner in between and tag him out.
Most experienced coaches have seen this play many many times. It rarely works. Third base coach should always hold runners when he doesn't have site of the ball. There is a variation of this play
that works a little more often. I will post it later.
quote:
Runner on second. Pitcher has 2-0 count on batter. I go to the mound and pretend to chew out my pitcher. Pitcher hangs his head, pretends to be upset or distraught and goes into the wind-up. No one else on the team reminds him about the runner, so he stays in the wind-up. Usually, a coach worth his salt will notice and pull the runner farther away. Now, with a wide arc of the pitcher's arms, over the head, my pitcher steps back with his pivot foot.(must be practiced to avoid the balk) and spins to pick. Works over 70%
This is a balk. When the pitcher takes his arms over his head he is simulating a pitch. He can't step off and throw. I saw a similar play in a college game a few years ago. Late in a tie game, no outs, 1st batter smokes a double. Pitcher is visibly upset, kicking dirt, stomping around. Coach is yelling at the pitcher to keep his head in the game. Pitcher all mad, toes the rubber as if to go into the windup. Third baseman is saying "stretch, stretch, stretch" Runner seeing this crazed pitcher about ready to go to the windup is taking extra steps to steal. Pitcher steps off and throws to 2nd, runner out by a mile.
quote:Offense: Squeeze variation. 1st and 3rd, or 3rd. I yell, "Let's go, I need a run". Runner on third goes when the pitcher comes set. Has to be on the set, not the motion. We are trying to force a balk. If we can't, pitcher will make a throw to home, my batter hits the ball.
This should NEVER work at the high school level. Pitcher should just step off. Your runner is dead.
This play does work with 9u-12u sometimes. When I coach young ones the FIRST thing taught to the pitchers is to step off on command. I pound this into my young pitchers.
I have seen a few lefties balk this, but it is usually because he makes a startled movement at "runner" or turns his shoulder to look while still on the rubber.
I could not see how that could run from the stretch. Now that I hear the squeeze play is when the pitcher is from the wind-up, that play was run against us this summer. Our pitcher stepped off and threw home, and was called for a balk. The ump was not ready for that play, insisted our pitcher never stepped off. I later found out that team had run that play successfully 7 out of 9 times. We only played them once in a weekend tournament and they had not run that in prior tournament games. This was Varsity Legion.
I'll be interested what some of you think of this:
Runner at 1b. He steals. Catcher throws a "pop-up" to the middle infield. Infielders come over, call it, and catch it. Runner, if not listening to his base coach, believes it is a fly ball and runs back to 1b. He's tagged out easily.
Curious as to what you think. Will fill in some more information later.
Runner at 1b. He steals. Catcher throws a "pop-up" to the middle infield. Infielders come over, call it, and catch it. Runner, if not listening to his base coach, believes it is a fly ball and runs back to 1b. He's tagged out easily.
Curious as to what you think. Will fill in some more information later.
If you teach kids to be agressive with the baseball they will be agressive with the baseball. They will have confidence to make plays regardless of the game situation. Our catchers have the green light to throw to any base at anytime. It has allowed us to make plays and it also keeps the other team on their toes. It shortens secondary leads and can force teams to be passive on the bags.
We spend 15 minutes of every practice on first and third defense / offense. We spend 15 minutes on bunt defense / offense. And we spend 15 minutes on pick offs / holding runners. This means the pitchers / mif's / catchers and corner guys all a part of this. The outfielders are also a part of this learning how to move and back up.
This means 45 minutes of every practice we work on these basic fundementals of the game. If you do this your guys will have the confidence to make plays in game situations.
We have a couple of times when we have predetermined pick offs on. Bunt situation runner on first / pitch out fb - throw behind the runner at first etc. These are situations that players need to understand the situation in the game and then go out and try to make a play.
Im not much on gimmick plays or trick plays. If you are spending the time on working on the fundementals of holding runners from all posistions / legit pick off plays / hitting cut off men / bunt o and bunt d / 1st and 3rd o and d - you are spending your time wisely imo.
If you have to coach them up and make decisions for your players during a game they will not play the game instinctively. They will play a step behind waiting on you to tell them what to do. If we have to coach during a game we have not done our job coaching them in practice. JMHO
We spend 15 minutes of every practice on first and third defense / offense. We spend 15 minutes on bunt defense / offense. And we spend 15 minutes on pick offs / holding runners. This means the pitchers / mif's / catchers and corner guys all a part of this. The outfielders are also a part of this learning how to move and back up.
This means 45 minutes of every practice we work on these basic fundementals of the game. If you do this your guys will have the confidence to make plays in game situations.
We have a couple of times when we have predetermined pick offs on. Bunt situation runner on first / pitch out fb - throw behind the runner at first etc. These are situations that players need to understand the situation in the game and then go out and try to make a play.
Im not much on gimmick plays or trick plays. If you are spending the time on working on the fundementals of holding runners from all posistions / legit pick off plays / hitting cut off men / bunt o and bunt d / 1st and 3rd o and d - you are spending your time wisely imo.
If you have to coach them up and make decisions for your players during a game they will not play the game instinctively. They will play a step behind waiting on you to tell them what to do. If we have to coach during a game we have not done our job coaching them in practice. JMHO
Excellent post Coach May. Once the fundementals are down I will add a few plays as time goes on.
TCB, If the Defender yells "I got it" most umps will
call verbal obstruction.
I have seen teams get a way with it like this: When the runner goes, someone in the duggout bangs two bats together(simulating contact), 2nd baseman is by the bag look up at the high ball thrown by the catcher(both arms sticking out, a physical "I got it") this is usually enough to confuse the runner and make a play on him.
I personally don't use the play. I think its pushing it too much.
TCB, If the Defender yells "I got it" most umps will
call verbal obstruction.
I have seen teams get a way with it like this: When the runner goes, someone in the duggout bangs two bats together(simulating contact), 2nd baseman is by the bag look up at the high ball thrown by the catcher(both arms sticking out, a physical "I got it") this is usually enough to confuse the runner and make a play on him.
I personally don't use the play. I think its pushing it too much.
Not a "trick" play but rarely used.
Bases loaded and pitcher does the 3rd-1st move. The man on first usually doesn't think about this move since there's a man on second and has begun getting his secondary as long as the pitcher has a relatively slow and high leg kick. Great to use with bases loaded and full count, 2 outs.
www.blastbat.com
Bases loaded and pitcher does the 3rd-1st move. The man on first usually doesn't think about this move since there's a man on second and has begun getting his secondary as long as the pitcher has a relatively slow and high leg kick. Great to use with bases loaded and full count, 2 outs.
www.blastbat.com
quote:Originally posted by C_PEN_Bears:
Not a "trick" play but rarely used.
Bases loaded and pitcher does the 3rd-1st move. The man on first usually doesn't think about this move since there's a man on second and has begun getting his secondary as long as the pitcher has a relatively slow and high leg kick. Great to use with bases loaded and full count, 2 outs.
www.blastbat.com
I've thought about that as well. Why not to that with a full count and two outs? The runners are going to be moving normally as soon as the pitcher picks up his leg. Very seldom do you see a runner wait until he knows the pitcher is going to the plate. As long as you don't try it everytime, I think it would work great.
One problem you could possibly run into is having your first baseman covering the bag. Normally in this type of situation the first baseman would be behind the runner.
