Coaching philosophies

Well, having all three is sure a benefit! I think even the best pitcher is going to struggle without defense behind him and some run support. Unless of course we're talking a pitcher who is just unhittable.

If I had to choose one or the other though, I guess I'd choose the defensive side - give me a good pitcher with a tight field behind him and I think you'd have a good chance of being in every game.

I would vote that pitching/defense will take your team farthest. When I was in high school my team had a .240 batting average but we had 3 good starting pitchers and a shortstop who did not make an error the entire year. The CF was a 6th round pick of the Astros - he caught everything.

In '06 when my kid's team won State we had defense and pitching. When your top two pitchers don't average a strike out an inning, the fielders have to be making a lot of plays. We didn't hit particularly well - we won two or three playoff games 1-0.

IMO if your high school starting pitcher strikes out over 10 guys a game, he stands a much better chance of winning basically because their are fewer things to go wrong. Why do you think so many coaches tell guys to "put the ball in play?"

Nice topic.

I agree with pitching and big defense...this summer I've seen way to many errors in the various infields I've watched and undisciplined throws to the cutoffs.

I also feel that these kids..big hitters too, should be drilled to the bone on bunting and learning to shorten up the stroke in situational hitting...To often, especially on the summer travel teams, the bunt goes down the tubes and the ground ball or base hit attitude does not exist..drives me nuts.

It depends on the level, as JK is about to find out.

The common answer has always been pitching and defense, but that isn't really all there is to it at the college level. Pitching may or may not keep you in it, especially when you get to the bullpen.

Defense is completely offset by offense. If you can swing it, they'll find a position for you. What that means, is that all the slick fielding in the world won't insure your spot on the field, but a mighty stick sure will.

In college, a 3R homer will cover a number of mistakes and bad pitches. You want to win games in college, bring the sticks.

Pitching, with lots of K's wins in HS. Defense tends to be iffy and I've seen even great HS Hitters stopped by great pitchers....and with the K's and few walks you will win.

Defense!!! Defense!!! Defense!!!!

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Defense!!! Defense!!! Defense!!!!

Absolutely, most HS pitching staffs are contact guys

I recently heard from a high school varsity coach that he would rather put an error-prone player with a big bat in a key defensive position than a solid defensive player with an average bat. I always thought that you could manufacture a run here or there, but you can't create defense. To say nothing of the aggravation you are inflicting upon your pitching staff when your better defensive players are not in the game.

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Originally posted by JKennedy:
I recently heard from a high school varsity coach that he would rather put an error-prone player with a big bat in a key defensive position than a solid defensive player with an average bat. I always thought that you could manufacture a run here or there, but you can't create defense. To say nothing of the aggravation you are inflicting upon your pitching staff when your better defensive players are not in the game.

I know a kid who was all-conference as a middle infielder. Two key stats: he hit .480 and committed 24 errors.

The team finished around .500 and quotes from the coach constantly referenced the defense letting the pitchers down. Hmmm...go figure.

My humble opinion... unless you hit 40+ home runs as a team, or K 9+ per game, the biggest variable I see from game to game is defense. Assuming you have below superior hitting and below superior pitching, superior defense will win you a lot of games.

You have 21 outs. Every error can extend an inning indefiately. Making the routine play is essential.

If you have a kid that can't hit, he may cost you an inning in a 7 inning game (3 at bats = 3 outs). An error can give the other team an undetermined number of extra runs.

It is a tough choice, but I take defense.

Depends on what position you are talking about . Middle guy -- you have to consider defense ... Corner guy --- I would take the bat over defense in most cases . The better bat will usually win out thruout all levels .

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Corner guy --- I would take the bat over defense in most cases .

a defensive Third base in high school baseball is critical

You could say that for any infield position . Most corner guys should be able to hit ---and hit for some power -if they are going to stay on the field at the college level and beyond . I have to believe that most college coaches do not want a weak hitting 3rd baseman in their lineup . Some high school coavhes might look at it differently . I guess it all depends on how the rest of your lineup shakes out.

Pitching and defense, no doubt. At the end of a tournament or season you are often sitting there saying, "if we only had one more quality arm!"

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You could say that for any infield position

Huh? do you read your own posts.

playball2,

I sent you a PM with contact numbers in case of rain.

Playball

Arent they all critical ?? Some guys just arent going to be as strong defensively as the next guy... but if they carry a big enough bat , then those guys justify their time on the field . A consistent good hitter that produces can makeup for any deficiencies he might have on defense . Is that clear enough for you ?

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Is that clear enough for you ?

No, it isn't. Not at 3rd base which was my response. Players statistically will drive in less runs that games played. players with big bats and small gloves DH. You stated in your first post that it was position specific, then in your next post you said it could apply for any infield position. Which one is it. In HS baseball, teams with defensive liabilities at third will lead to a lot of losses. Fact.

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In HS baseball, teams with defensive liabilities at third will lead to a lot of losses. Fact.

Truer words may never have been uttered.

im not a coach but i think relief pitching helps. we didnt have it this year

The same can be said for the shorstop position and second base as well . Cant win if you dont score . Ill play the .400 hitter with some power at third instead of the .250 guy who might be a litle better defensively ..if it came down to just those two at that position . That was the point i was trying to make . For you to say that third base is more critical than short or second is just an opinion ..not a fact . Ive seen lots of more balls hit toward the middle than third over the last few years at the high school level .

Former manager Earl Weaver's philosophy on this subject certainly worked for him and the Orioles for many years .

I always called the guys who were defensively challenged "ball magnets." No matter where you put them in the field, the ball seemed to find them! 3B, 2B, 1B, RF .......... didn't matter.

That's too funny nc - #3, a born catcher, in a freaky situation was called upon to play a grand total of one inning at second base in his entire life. Guess where every single ball was hit that inning? He fielded every one like he was still wearing full gear. Hilarious. Longest inning of his (and my!) career! He was indeed a ball magnet that day!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YKxf3OkpJc

this would be my coaching philosophy if I had to have one

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For you to say that third base is more critical than short or second is just an opinion ..not a fact .

Undisputed fact

Playball-

I want to believe you but where do you come up with this? (As I remember three groundballs going thru our SS's legs a few years ago)

Playball

The only facts in baseball are the statistics . Your statement is nothing more than your opinion . Where can we find this " undisputed " fact ?

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Undisputed fact

Undisputed no more...

NC42, I believe three is embellished. But I believe your third baseman kept us in the game. Mr. Nobody there are very few statistics that are undisputed, however statistically I am confident that a large number of HS coaches will tell how imperative it is to have a defensive third baseman.

A consensus among the coaching ranks is one thing ... undisputed fact is quite another .

What infield position would you consider it not to be imperative to have a good defensive player on your team ?

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What infield position would you consider it not to be imperative to have a good defensive player on your team ?

2nd/P/1st. the right side has more time to recover from a mistake, right handed hitters are not adept at hitting oppo, pitch away from your left handers who's typically long swing will hit into your best side of defense. You may call it consensus , I have not met a HS coach who has stated anything less.

I believe this is correct in MLB and College, look up any team to verify but 1B has the most putouts, and SS has the most chances on any team.

Every position needs to be covered by someone who can "pick it", you could go 2 games and never have a ball hit to you then the bottom of 7 all the sudden your getting shots right at you. Every position is equally important.

When I started this thread, the position I had in mind was shortstop. I have repeatedly seen our best defensive shortstop sit, while others with bigger bats but admittedly lesser defensive skills play the position. And it wasn't even that the offensive results were much different, just that the coach liked the others players approaches better. The end result was more errors at the position and little, if any, increase in offensive production.

Some people really under value a great first baseman also.... Many people think of it as a simple position. However, a team with a great player at 1B can help make up for other infielders weaknesses....

But as the old saying goes, you HAVE TO BE STRONG UP THE MIDDLE. C, 2B, SS, CF. A team with a good set of those will win a lot of games.

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Originally posted by Hit it hard:
Some people really under value a great first baseman also.... Many people think of it as a simple position. However, a team with a great player at 1B can help make up for other infielders weaknesses....

But as the old saying goes, you HAVE TO BE STRONG UP THE MIDDLE. C, 2B, SS, CF. A team with a good set of those will win a lot of games.

Hih - Couldn't agree more with your assessment. A first baseman with a strong glove is an infielder's best friend.

Further, a strong middle infield is imperative to compete at the higher levels. A tandem who can turn DPs with precision is, often times, what separates the good from the really good teams. There's a whole lot more to playing 2B than merely fielding ground balls.

I know thew Niles North coach thinks third base defense is especially important in high school. Because of bunt coverages, the 3b is asked to do a lot and may handle more balls than the ss or 2b.

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A tandem who can turn DPs with precision is, often times, what separates the good from the really good teams. There's a whole lot more to playing 2B than merely fielding ground balls.

Pittsburgh Pirates have led MLB in DP's the last three seasons (Wilson and Sanchez)not sure they have separated themselves from the really good teams yet. Tremendous duo though.

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Originally posted by Playball2:

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A tandem who can turn DPs with precision is, often times, what separates the good from the really good teams. There's a whole lot more to playing 2B than merely fielding ground balls.

Pittsburgh Pirates have led MLB in DP's the last three seasons (Wilson and Sanchez)not sure they have separated themselves from the really good teams yet. Tremendous duo though.

Playball...throughout this thread, you have continually cited to HS coaches and situations in support of your opinions (or undisputed facts). Now, you refer to a major league ball club in defense of your latest assertion. With all due respect, I'm getting awfully confused here as to what, exactly, we're talking about.