Coach's advice for 2015

There was noticeable improvement in my son's game was when he passed on basketball to work on physical conditioning (strength and agility) over the winter soph year. The following winter an instructor altered his swing for his strength development and the results were even more noticeable.

My only question in your son's situation is, Is the recommended training available for a fee at the same facility he's already training. I'm always suspicious when I can follow the money in a situation. Strength and agility are good. But don't get sucked into spending money at a certain facility. My son did certified FASST (Fitness, Strength, Speed, Agility Training).

Its difficult to say with out seeing your kid play.

I am not sure its really an either/or situation, unless academics are a problem. I would think condiditioning and lifting would not interfer with the opportunity to get at bats and work on his swing with live pitching. Then again I know nothing about the quality of fall league play in your area and how that might play into the coach's suggestion.

My son works out year round and takes advantage of any opportunity for decent live pitching ab's. Lifting does help with hitting.

Nole44,
First of all, welcome to the HSBBW and thanks for taking the time to post a great question.
I would venture to say that from the time our son hit HS until his last day in Minor League baseball, the words "getting stronger" and "getting faster" would ring in his ears. From what we saw, from the time he he committed to and ultimately stepped onto a college baseball field, getting stronger and faster is almost a must for position players.
An integral aspect of strength and conditioning in college baseball, for position players, is baseball strength and speed, being explosive.
I have said this many times on the site, and since you are in Florida, it might be easier for you and your son: to see the importance of speed and strength and see the significant variations, it is so helpful to visit a Milb complex during Spring Training. You can sit in the center of 4-6 fields and watch the difference in the level of play from Low A to AAA. The first thing noticed is the speed of the players and how vastly different it is as the players progress. The other aspect is strength and power and it really changes as position players progress. The same is true in college baseball between in incoming freshman and a returning junior/senior.
On the strength side, it is very important, perhaps critical in my opinion, to have coaching and oversight from someone with baseball specific knowledge. It isn't just strength and power; it has to be baseball specific.
I am not sure why your son's coach expressed that he has reached his plateau. Perhaps it was to provide some additional motivation?
I can tell you that being "explosive" and getting stronger and faster are awfully common expressions at the next level. It is unbelievable how hard players above HS work in their off season. Yes, it makes a noticeable difference.

quote:

2015

You son is what, 15...? Coach says he will not get any better... Hmmmm...?

I think that 15 year olds do get bigger and stronger as they get older, at least that's what I've seen in humans.

This is not saying that his advice is not good or that strength and speed training will not help your son, but I think he may be projecting a bit too much...

Why can't your son do both? It is fall ball, there aren't many games and he can train around practicing or playing, seems like it would be a perfect time to do it.

- Good luck, whatever you decide.

quote:

Originally posted by Nole44:
Coach told him to skip fall baseball to just focus on weights and speed drills to prepare for the spring high school and summer travel seasons.

My son did this and it worked out well for him. Gained weight, muscle, speed and agility.

He is a pitcher, so we shut him down for that fall.

Infielddad,

I agree 100%. We have been very fortunate to see very good college (FSU…of course), minor league, and major league baseball.

Addressing the plateau, his swing is fundamentally sound (not my words) and he can fly out to center with the best of ‘em. His coach told him he can take BP and play in games forever and probably will still have a good fundamental swing…and still fly out to center.

He’s stressing the importance of strength and speed at the expense of playing in the fall.

Nole44 - I agree with infielddad and respectfully disagree with the coach's advice. I don't see why this has to be an either/or proposition? He can only work on speed and strength so often in the day and that should still leave plenty of time to play baseball. Sure, he might be a little tired from the training, but I would never give up the game for training alone.

Baseball is the ultimate skill sport. The only way you can get better at it is to play it. Speed and strength will enhance it, but imho, I would never forgo playing it - assuming that is something he likes to do anyways.

Nole44,
Of course I can only speak from the experience of our son and his teammates and now those he is coaching.
At your son's age, missing a Fall of baseball means little, maybe nothing, in terms of his development and his future is my thought. Of course our son played HS football all 4 years so I speak from a perspective that Fall baseball was not part of his sports experience until college.
Using the upcoming Fall as a time for a baseball/position player specific strength and conditioning(speed) program can be an opportunity to transform him to a next level or two and a player you won't recognize next Spring. I am not sure it needs to be either or for your situation, but I do think a Fall focused on speed/strength is very valid.

As others have stated, hard to say without seeing him. I would guess that the coach is painting the "plateau" picture to get your son to fully buy into the speed & strength program.
This is a great age to start that commitment if he hasn't already. If he's already playing lots of ball and having success, sounds like a good plan.
Pretty much every HS kid I see that makes that commitment for the first time during the off season comes back in a much better position to succeed.

Thanks to everybody for their input and advice. He has a few more baseball events in July and August before we/he decide to shut it down for the fall.

I’ll pass it on If he throws 90+ on the gun or hits one 450+ in the spring!

Again, I appreciate and value the input.

quote:

Pretty much every HS kid I see that makes that commitment for the first time during the off season comes back in a much better position to succeed.

Was a significant gain in every aspect of the game once the training became more specific and intense.What that coach said that he needs to train more and become more strong,fast,quicker,athletic and he may see more gains in his overall game.

An interesting aspect of this is the baseball specific training which was mentioned.

In other words, while taking this Fall off from playing games, will he in fact be taking hundreds of ground balls in a controlled situation, developing his footwork and hands?

Will he be honing his skills at the plate developing strike zone awareness and pitch recognition?

Will he be improving his overall skill level by virtue of an intense training program, along with his speed and strength training?

I am reminded that down in the Latin Academies, rarely do they ever play games, they focus on technique and development. Japan is similar I believe.

So, if you are speaking about development, it more effective to develop in game situations, or under the watchful eye of an instructor?

Most of the kids who compete in a PG event can hit, field, and throw better than the average baseball player. What my sons coach is pointing out is the difference between a good PG (or D1, D2, D3) player and a great PG (or D1, D2, D3) player is speed and strength (power).

As far as the plateau, his coach is saying, in his experience, the fundamental skill in hitting a baseball can only be taken so far (a kid can be taught and apply the skills learned to hit a pitch). Once a kid has learned how to hit, he must develop the speed and strength to hit the ball with force and power.

In his mind, developing the speed and strength right now is more important than playing.

It’s definitely a quandary.

Good points FF.

quote:

Originally posted by Nole44:
As far as the plateau, his coach is saying, in his experience, the fundamental skill in hitting a baseball can only be taken so far (a kid can be taught and apply the skills learned to hit a pitch). Once a kid has learned how to hit, he must develop the speed and strength to hit the ball with force and power.

I wonder what Ted Williams would say about that who was the greatest hitter of all time imho. He said he swung a bat until his hands bled and then swung some more. Hitting must be constantly worked on imho so I disagree with you there.

One thing I did not mention in my previous response is, this decision may not be as tough in the warm weather climates where your kids play on average many more games than kids here in the North. Thus, it may not be a huge sacrifice to take the fall off. If he loves baseball and is not burned out however, I would still never advise it.

In hindsight I believe taking the fall off a couple of seasons ago to work on strength, etc, would have been a good idea for my son.

He is a catcher, so working out during the season is always tricky. So far this year he has been on teams which have played approximately 65 games. He has to be very careful about how heavy he lifts and how hard he works out on game days. When his Legion season ends in the next week or two, he is planning a very heavy workout regime (working with a trainer). His goal is to add strength and weight. He is already working on agility.

Some kids don't need it as much as others. However, I believe my son will benefit greatly from it.

Don't get me wrong, he has been working out a lot over the past few years, it is just a matter of how intensely he can work out when he has a game to play.

I think live at bats are important.I think the player can play a reduced schedule in the fall,and use time to condition as well.

Mine has always needed lots of at bats live.

I value the coach and his involvement in developing players in our area. I’ll take everybody’s input and help him develop a workout plan for my son.

I guess a working consensus is work on strength and speed, continue to practice fundamentals, and participate in a reduced fall season.

Theses forums are awesome. Thanks again.

And I agree, Ted Williams was the man!