This world of fantasy sports is foreign to me...but I will relay this story to my son so he knows this going into college next year. Seems a bit extreme to me...
http://video.foxnews.com/v/534...9001/?#sp=show-clips
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Playing fantasy sports (not to do it) was explained very clearly to my son's team at the beginning of fall ball. It is clearly a NCAA violation, as weird as it seems, but if money is involved, it is an infraction.
Also, son was questioned on who owns his car, how long he has had it, who pays for the insurance, etc. A lot of information for a very used 2007 Toyota Corolla.
U of R (basketball) was also in some heat with the NCAA a few years back with the use of text messaging. Texting was the wild wild west in 2007, and the NCAA made new rules regarding it during that time. Maybe clearer rules will come out of all this.
NCAA rules are strict. And Head coaches are careful. HC of the program my son is in made all the players 'sign off' twitter before the season opener a few weeks back. No tweets allowed! During season
Keewart and Strained- thank you for this insight...great stuff to know. The world we live in is so different with technology/ social media, etc. today. Athletes are so much more in the spotlight in college...
keewart posted:Playing fantasy sports (not to do it) was explained very clearly to my son's team at the beginning of fall ball. It is clearly a NCAA violation, as weird as it seems, but if money is involved, it is an infraction.
Also, son was questioned on who owns his car, how long he has had it, who pays for the insurance, etc. A lot of information for a very used 2007 Toyota Corolla.
U of R (basketball) was also in some heat with the NCAA a few years back with the use of text messaging. Texting was the wild wild west in 2007, and the NCAA made new rules regarding it during that time. Maybe clearer rules will come out of all this.
There really isn't a way to make the rule clearer. You bet on college sports and any remuneration is involved, it's illegal.
It's why when I ran a bar, patrons would offer to bet me on games (I live in one of the rivalry states from my home, so I cheer for the opposite of most.) Even for a beer, I had to tell them no.
Ridiculous if you ask me. Guess they can't enter any March Madness brackets either?? How about some modicum of common sense?
I get it, it's a rule, they knew it and they broke it. That being said, I have no idea why they wouldn't allow athletes to play...unless of course they are playing fantasy college sports....which I'm fairly certain doesn't exist. I think it would be a good way for athletes to help cover the the portion of the the tuition that the NCAA refuses allow in scholarships.....lol. Maybe if every athlete got a full ride and stipend like football and basketball they wouldn't have to worry about needing a little extra cash 
It's pretty easy to see why this rule exists: there is a long storied history of college players falling into the clutches of gamblers - usually this come to light within the context of point shaving.
Today, a person can gamble on any sport at virtually every level - including college baseball.
Falling into debt as a direct result of a gambling habit is well documented (read the fine print on every casino advertisement). If a person chooses to extract themselves, there are gamblers always looking for an edge. I can understand and see the potential problem the rule addresses.
bballman posted:Ridiculous if you ask me. Guess they can't enter any March Madness brackets either?? How about some modicum of common sense?
The NCAA and common sense don't fit in the same sentence.
I know a professional baseball player who won 125k in a fantasy football league, it was run from the clubhouse, with members of the team...he was in for zero but acted a GM and got half the winnings...but college kids can't play because the potential of fixing games? Stupid.
Matt13 posted:keewart posted:Playing fantasy sports (not to do it) was explained very clearly to my son's team at the beginning of fall ball. It is clearly a NCAA violation, as weird as it seems, but if money is involved, it is an infraction.
Also, son was questioned on who owns his car, how long he has had it, who pays for the insurance, etc. A lot of information for a very used 2007 Toyota Corolla.
U of R (basketball) was also in some heat with the NCAA a few years back with the use of text messaging. Texting was the wild wild west in 2007, and the NCAA made new rules regarding it during that time. Maybe clearer rules will come out of all this.
There really isn't a way to make the rule clearer. You bet on college sports and any remuneration is involved, it's illegal.
It's why when I ran a bar, patrons would offer to bet me on games (I live in one of the rivalry states from my home, so I cheer for the opposite of most.) Even for a beer, I had to tell them no.
Actually, most states now have statutory exceptions in their gambling laws for "social gambling" which is defined, in its simplest form, as non-public gambling in a social setting among people of the same social group. This excepts things like office or bar March Madness rackets and home poker games at which no rake is taken or profit made by anything outside actual wagers made between participants.
Goosegg posted:It's pretty easy to see why this rule exists: there is a long storied history of college players falling into the clutches of gamblers - usually this come to light within the context of point shaving.
.
So, I've gone back and forth the on this issue. I needed wisdom. So, I read Paul Woody's article in our local paper which is close to the issue at hand (http://www.richmond.com/sports...13-861d2a77e8d8.html) and I just couldn't side with Woody 100%. I'm in agreement with Goosegg as to why this rule needs to exist, but my problem is I just can't seem to get my brain and my conscience to agree that the NCAA may actually be right about something. It is a definite struggle.
I know from day one of Fall practice that college coaches tell their players not to bet or get involved in anything related to fantasy sports in ANY sport. This is a rule and not a guideline. It is an absolute and you're told not to cross that clearly marked line. I've never been known as a "rule follower", but this one would have got my attention back in my college days. I think the NCAA got everyone's attention and now it is time to move on by reinstating these players for a lapse in judgement. As always, JMO.
roothog66 posted:Matt13 posted:keewart posted:Playing fantasy sports (not to do it) was explained very clearly to my son's team at the beginning of fall ball. It is clearly a NCAA violation, as weird as it seems, but if money is involved, it is an infraction.
Also, son was questioned on who owns his car, how long he has had it, who pays for the insurance, etc. A lot of information for a very used 2007 Toyota Corolla.
U of R (basketball) was also in some heat with the NCAA a few years back with the use of text messaging. Texting was the wild wild west in 2007, and the NCAA made new rules regarding it during that time. Maybe clearer rules will come out of all this.
There really isn't a way to make the rule clearer. You bet on college sports and any remuneration is involved, it's illegal.
It's why when I ran a bar, patrons would offer to bet me on games (I live in one of the rivalry states from my home, so I cheer for the opposite of most.) Even for a beer, I had to tell them no.
Actually, most states now have statutory exceptions in their gambling laws for "social gambling" which is defined, in its simplest form, as non-public gambling in a social setting among people of the same social group. This excepts things like office or bar March Madness rackets and home poker games at which no rake is taken or profit made by anything outside actual wagers made between participants.
I'm referring to NCAA rules.
bballman posted:Ridiculous if you ask me. Guess they can't enter any March Madness brackets either?? How about some modicum of common sense?
Rick Neuheisel lost his job as Washington football coach after competing in a March Madness pool. His bigger mistake was it had so many participants the winner's share was $3,000.
Goosegg posted:It's pretty easy to see why this rule exists: there is a long storied history of college players falling into the clutches of gamblers - usually this come to light within the context of point shaving.
Today, a person can gamble on any sport at virtually every level - including college baseball.
Falling into debt as a direct result of a gambling habit is well documented (read the fine print on every casino advertisement). If a person chooses to extract themselves, there are gamblers always looking for an edge. I can understand and see the potential problem the rule addresses.
Boston College point shaving scandal
old_school posted:I know a professional baseball player who won 125k in a fantasy football league, it was run from the clubhouse, with members of the team...he was in for zero but acted a GM and got half the winnings...but college kids can't play because the potential of fixing games? Stupid.
Pro athletes aren't supposed to gamble either. It's posted in the locker rooms where they can see it every day.
Matt13 posted:roothog66 posted:Matt13 posted:keewart posted:Playing fantasy sports (not to do it) was explained very clearly to my son's team at the beginning of fall ball. It is clearly a NCAA violation, as weird as it seems, but if money is involved, it is an infraction.
Also, son was questioned on who owns his car, how long he has had it, who pays for the insurance, etc. A lot of information for a very used 2007 Toyota Corolla.
U of R (basketball) was also in some heat with the NCAA a few years back with the use of text messaging. Texting was the wild wild west in 2007, and the NCAA made new rules regarding it during that time. Maybe clearer rules will come out of all this.
There really isn't a way to make the rule clearer. You bet on college sports and any remuneration is involved, it's illegal.
It's why when I ran a bar, patrons would offer to bet me on games (I live in one of the rivalry states from my home, so I cheer for the opposite of most.) Even for a beer, I had to tell them no.
Actually, most states now have statutory exceptions in their gambling laws for "social gambling" which is defined, in its simplest form, as non-public gambling in a social setting among people of the same social group. This excepts things like office or bar March Madness rackets and home poker games at which no rake is taken or profit made by anything outside actual wagers made between participants.
I'm referring to NCAA rules.
My reply was in reference to your job running a bar.
I am not really sure why some are having trouble understanding this. All NCAA student athletes are required to take classes on the rules. Gambling is against the rules.
Don't think that this doesn't stop them from gambling among friends. But online..that's just plain stupid.
roothog66 posted:Matt13 posted:roothog66 posted:Matt13 posted:keewart posted:Playing fantasy sports (not to do it) was explained very clearly to my son's team at the beginning of fall ball. It is clearly a NCAA violation, as weird as it seems, but if money is involved, it is an infraction.
Also, son was questioned on who owns his car, how long he has had it, who pays for the insurance, etc. A lot of information for a very used 2007 Toyota Corolla.
U of R (basketball) was also in some heat with the NCAA a few years back with the use of text messaging. Texting was the wild wild west in 2007, and the NCAA made new rules regarding it during that time. Maybe clearer rules will come out of all this.
There really isn't a way to make the rule clearer. You bet on college sports and any remuneration is involved, it's illegal.
It's why when I ran a bar, patrons would offer to bet me on games (I live in one of the rivalry states from my home, so I cheer for the opposite of most.) Even for a beer, I had to tell them no.
Actually, most states now have statutory exceptions in their gambling laws for "social gambling" which is defined, in its simplest form, as non-public gambling in a social setting among people of the same social group. This excepts things like office or bar March Madness rackets and home poker games at which no rake is taken or profit made by anything outside actual wagers made between participants.
I'm referring to NCAA rules.
My reply was in reference to your job running a bar.
Right. But the reason I would turn them down is because of NCAA rules.
I think playing fantasy football or entering a pool for March Madness are far from what you would consider gambling. I would consider them more social interaction.
Now if a team is in the pool of 64 in the NCAA tournament, there's no question the players shouldn't enter a pool. Anyone else, I think it's overboard. And fantasy football, it's not even teams involved.
Like I said, how about a little common sense from the NCAA. But that's just my opinion...
bballman posted:I think playing fantasy football or entering a pool for March Madness are far from what you would consider gambling. I would consider them more social interaction.
Now if a team is in the pool of 64 in the NCAA tournament, there's no question the players shouldn't enter a pool. Anyone else, I think it's overboard. And fantasy football, it's not even teams involved.
Like I said, how about a little common sense from the NCAA. But that's just my opinion...
It's not about the player's team being involved. It's about a player losing, getting in debt and becoming susceptible to shady people.
Gambling and alcohol use is a YUGE problem among athletes. Learning to be responsible should be stressed to all athletes. Finding yourself in debt in college isnt cool.
TPM posted:Gambling and alcohol use is a YUGE problem among athletes. Learning to be responsible should be stressed to all athletes. Finding yourself in debt in college isnt cool.
Gambling and alcohol is a huge problem, period. Learning to be responsible should be stressed to all. Finding yourself in debt in college is what most people end up with, whether it is due to binge drinking, gambling, or paying tuition. The NCAA isn't looking out for the athletes here, it's looking out for the institutions who are penalized when this stuff comes to light and penalties are handed down. College is a debt incurring life event for a majority who take it on, and a small fraction add to it by gambling.
SanDiegoRealist posted:TPM posted:Gambling and alcohol use is a YUGE problem among athletes. Learning to be responsible should be stressed to all athletes. Finding yourself in debt in college isnt cool.
Gambling and alcohol is a huge problem, period. Learning to be responsible should be stressed to all. Finding yourself in debt in college is what most people end up with, whether it is due to binge drinking, gambling, or paying tuition. The NCAA isn't looking out for the athletes here, it's looking out for the institutions who are penalized when this stuff comes to light and penalties are handed down. College is a debt incurring life event for a majority who take it on, and a small fraction add to it by gambling. Give me a break, these "kids" are old enough to go die in Iraq or Afghanistan for their county but not play fantasy sports?! That's rich.
RJM posted:bballman posted:I think playing fantasy football or entering a pool for March Madness are far from what you would consider gambling. I would consider them more social interaction.
Now if a team is in the pool of 64 in the NCAA tournament, there's no question the players shouldn't enter a pool. Anyone else, I think it's overboard. And fantasy football, it's not even teams involved.
Like I said, how about a little common sense from the NCAA. But that's just my opinion...
It's not about the player's team being involved. It's about a player losing, getting in debt and becoming susceptible to shady people.
Gee, sounds a lot like what's happened big now with the Trump administration...just sayin'....
SanDiegoRealist posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:TPM posted:Gambling and alcohol use is a YUGE problem among athletes. Learning to be responsible should be stressed to all athletes. Finding yourself in debt in college isnt cool.
Gambling and alcohol is a huge problem, period. Learning to be responsible should be stressed to all. Finding yourself in debt in college is what most people end up with, whether it is due to binge drinking, gambling, or paying tuition. The NCAA isn't looking out for the athletes here, it's looking out for the institutions who are penalized when this stuff comes to light and penalties are handed down. College is a debt incurring life event for a majority who take it on, and a small fraction add to it by gambling. Give me a break, these "kids" are old enough to go die in Iraq or Afghanistan for their county but not play fantasy sports?! That's rich.
There is someone who always tries to justify things by bringing that stuff up.
And if anyone and their parents are smart, they wont go into debt playing baseball in college.
A lot different than getting into debt over betting on any sport.
TPM posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:TPM posted:Gambling and alcohol use is a YUGE problem among athletes. Learning to be responsible should be stressed to all athletes. Finding yourself in debt in college isnt cool.
Gambling and alcohol is a huge problem, period. Learning to be responsible should be stressed to all. Finding yourself in debt in college is what most people end up with, whether it is due to binge drinking, gambling, or paying tuition. The NCAA isn't looking out for the athletes here, it's looking out for the institutions who are penalized when this stuff comes to light and penalties are handed down. College is a debt incurring life event for a majority who take it on, and a small fraction add to it by gambling. Give me a break, these "kids" are old enough to go die in Iraq or Afghanistan for their county but not play fantasy sports?! That's rich.
There is someone who always tries to justify things by bringing that stuff up.
And if anyone and their parents are smart, they wont go into debt playing baseball in college.
A lot different than getting into debt over betting on any sport.
What am I justifying, TPM? I am simply stating that as a person of majority, these "kids" are all of the sudden legally responsible for their decisions. I have no problem with the rule per se, but to say it's there to protect the athletes from gambling themselves into financial ruin is ridiculous.
The gambling rules are to protect the integrity of the game. Otherwise it becomes as legit as wrestling.
Truly absurd. That about sums it up....as newspapers all over the country prepare to sponsor basketball "contests", printing brackets of the....wait for it....NCAA tourney teams. They should spend their time on allowing kids to transfer when the coach they love departs 2 months after they sign their loi. Serious issues....not fantasy sports.
RJM hit it: it's about the integrity of the game.
Gamblers like an edge; the edge can come in the form of insider information (injuries) or in the form of sub par performance (booted that ball somehow; missed that FT).
An adult is responsible for their own decisions; but, a bright line rule is needed to prevent nefarious people from undermining the integrity of the game.
Like many NCAA rules, at the margins, the rules don't seem to make sense. For those who view fantasy sports as somehow outside gambling, what if the fantasy sport costs a thousand dollars to enter and the kid "borrows" the entry fee from the local bookie? And loses? And can't repay? What then?
Want to test your prowess in March Madness? Take your baseball team, fill out your brackets and the winner gets bragging rights. No muss, no fuss
TPM posted:
There is someone who always tries to justify things by bringing that stuff up.
And if anyone and their parents are smart, they wont go into debt playing baseball in college.
A lot different than getting into debt over betting on any sport.
this not one of your better or more thought out comments, it is actually stupid....
old_school posted:TPM posted:
There is someone who always tries to justify things by bringing that stuff up.
And if anyone and their parents are smart, they wont go into debt playing baseball in college.
A lot different than getting into debt over betting on any sport.
this not one of your better or more thought out comments, it is actually stupid....
I think stupid is not being able to post comments correctly.
It's a private organization and it has a right to enact whatever rules, penalties, etc. it thinks is needed to protect the integrity of its brand. However, let's not buy into the idea they try to sell as a stated purpose that the NCAA is there to protect and support the student-athlete. Institutions are members of the NCAA, student-athletes are not.
Despite this, though, it seems quite hypocritical that the NCAA sees a need to hold such a strong line against anything it considers gambling, all the time authorizing use of its brand (NCAA and "March Madness") and logos to CBS, ESPN, etc. for use in promoting bracket pools which account for the private exchange of billions of dollars each year. They know such promotion boosts their ratings leading to larger TV contract $$. It's good business (like MLB aligning themselves with the fantasy companies), but maybe they could back off of the blatant hypocricy just a tad.
I don't believe the debate is over the hypocrisy of the NCAA. Almost everyone who had had a kid play college sports is aware of the hypocrisy. I've called them borderline Mafia who extorts the college neighborhood for protection. But they do make the rules. If the rules are broken there are penalties.
Is Steve Alford (in college) being suspended for being a calendar boy for charity stupid? Especially considering the NCAA eventually allowed players images to be used for NCAA profit in video games. Of course. But gambling brings perils to the game. Some fantasy sports participation is for fun. Some of it is for big money. The best solution is keep athletes away from potential gambling.