Good point PG.
My son's former teammates were from everywhere, NY, PA, CA, VA, WA and Wisconsin just to name a few. Others who signed pro ball were recruited from other states as well.
The geography and economics has changed somewhat, but I do know that some of those recruits can afford to pay the now 28K a year tuition.
quote:As I said it happens, but for some reason rz just doesn't beleive me.
My queen, will you please step off your throne and knock it off. I never once said it doesn't happen, I said it doesn't happen often that a player goes into a program accepting nothing for the good of the program when they deserve something. You said "it happens all the time, everywhere". The discussion evolved into the inequities of States who are actually providing State funded scholarships that are not counted against the baseball numbers. I said that was BS and you as a Floridian argued the fact.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
For sure the rest of the country can find players in the big herd hotbeds.
While the herd might be smaller in other parts of the country, those at the top of the national herd, are also recruited heavily by the top programs that are in the big herd parts of the country.
PG, Did any of those players go to a program and accept minimal scholarships so the program could use the money elsewhere. Am I that far off the mark to say very few quality players voluntarily "bite the scholarship bullet" and walk on for the program to further recruit?
quote:Originally posted by rz1:
My queen, will you please step off your throne and knock it off.
That's not nice.
You yourself have said you like a good debate but no reason for name calling. JMO.
quote:PG, Did any of those players go to a program and accept minimal scholarships so the program could use the money elsewhere. Am I that far off the mark to say very few quality players voluntarily "bite the scholarship bullet" and walk on for the program to further recruit?
To be honest, I don't know the answer to that question. While we know thousands of kids who have gone on to play college baseball, I can't ever remember asking a single one of them how much scholarship money they received.
That's why it has always bothered me when I see people say they have been responsible for some exact figure, usually millions of dollars, of scholarship money. That would be almost impossible to track, especially after the first year offer.
One of the most secretive things in baseball is the exact "baseball" scholarship money that most players receive. I've always thought that was a private thing, any how!
I suppose there are a lot of cases where good players would go to a high profile college for much less money than a lesser program offers. I know several who have paid the entire freight just to have a chance at a school like Arizona State for example. Those guys seldom, if ever, make the roster at those schools, though.
For the most part IMO the top players simply have too many good options in order to pay large sums of money when they can go elsewhere for practically nothing. Then again, I've been poor for most of my life and think like a poor man!
I do know that there are many who would pay everything they have to get the opportunity to play professional baseball. They are the reason I will never feel sorry for any professional baseball player who is just scraping by on a small salary.
quote:Originally posted by rz1:
PG, Did any of those players go to a program and accept minimal scholarships so the program could use the money elsewhere. Am I that far off the mark to say very few quality players voluntarily "bite the scholarship bullet" and walk on for the program to further recruit?
Some of those were top recruits in the country. No where did anyone ever refer to that this happens to the top elite players in the country. Even no11 said that in her experience that teams are giving out to top recruits only. I was refering that it happens to recruited players, not those who tryout in the fall and get nothing because there is no money left.
That's a horse of a different color.
JMO.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:quote:Originally posted by rz1:
My queen, will you please step off your throne and knock it off.
That's not nice.
You yourself have said you like a good debate but no reason for name calling. JMO.
I thought it was a rather "majestic" statement on your part to summarize my opinion as not believing you. I never once said that I doubted it has happened, I only disagreed that it happens "all the time". It wasn't name calling, it was applying a title in regard to your statement.
My statement that it happens all of the time meant that it happens, most likely more than you or I know and is going to become a reality with economics. BTW, many programs have discontinued giving $$ to 5th year seniors who graduate in 4 even with a year left.
Again that was why I originally said BE HONEST in the recruiting process. There might just be a situation where the coach is in financial need and if you are able to pay for your son's full education, he would give a roster spot becaue a player he offerd couldn't afford to come. On the other hand one should be honest to the coach, if you cannot afford the opportunity and he really wants you he may have a way to get it done. Let them know this early in the process. You never know how things will turn out and this all goes back to my original post on page one.
That was name calling and as for me, I'm done.
Again that was why I originally said BE HONEST in the recruiting process. There might just be a situation where the coach is in financial need and if you are able to pay for your son's full education, he would give a roster spot becaue a player he offerd couldn't afford to come. On the other hand one should be honest to the coach, if you cannot afford the opportunity and he really wants you he may have a way to get it done. Let them know this early in the process. You never know how things will turn out and this all goes back to my original post on page one.
That was name calling and as for me, I'm done.
RZ1,
As TPM said, it does happen that some top players will pass up or give back their baseball $$ in order to help out the team and get other top players who need the money more.
We were talking to a top D1 school and the coach who was giving a talk to our team pointed out that one of their top pitching recruits had been offered a large scholarship but wanted another player to come to the school with him who was a top hitter, so he gave up a lot of his money so the hitter could afford the school. Turns out the pitcher was drafted high and did not attend the school and the hitter went on to be one of their most valuable all time hitters who was drafted 1st round three years later.
Stuff happens!
As TPM said, it does happen that some top players will pass up or give back their baseball $$ in order to help out the team and get other top players who need the money more.
We were talking to a top D1 school and the coach who was giving a talk to our team pointed out that one of their top pitching recruits had been offered a large scholarship but wanted another player to come to the school with him who was a top hitter, so he gave up a lot of his money so the hitter could afford the school. Turns out the pitcher was drafted high and did not attend the school and the hitter went on to be one of their most valuable all time hitters who was drafted 1st round three years later.
Stuff happens!
quote:Originally posted by Homerun04:
RZ1,
As TPM said, it does happen that some top players will pass up or give back their baseball $$ in order to help out the team and get other top players who need the money more.
No argument from me that it does happen, but IMHO it happens very seldom when looking at the college picture as a whole. The case you mention, if I read it right, falls into a grey area of giving up $$ for a friend, rather than the program. Would he have done the same for a stranger? What was the "give-back"? Did the pitcher give it all back?
quote:Originally posted by rz1:
No argument from me that it does happen, but IMHO it happens very seldom when looking at the college picture as a whole. The case you mention, if I read it right, falls into a grey area of giving up $$ for a friend, rather than the program. Would he have done the same for a stranger? What was the "give-back"? Did the pitcher give it all back?
It does not happen a lot but it does happen.
The pitcher never made it to campus so basically he gave it all back.
A few other stories, one of a top pitcher was asked to give up some of his money and delay it for his fifth year to help pay of other players that the school had over recruited and ended up on campus. Turned out ok since he needed TJ and he will end up playing his fifth year.
Another kind of bend on the story, one player who was highly recruited by several schools, he chose instead of going to a top ranked private school, he ended up going to a UC school for less money, his family ended up donating 6 figures to the help the program in other ways....
And one last example, a top pitcher (second rounder) gave back his baseball money to the program, I have no clue which players it ultimately allocated to but they will be getting their CWS championship rings in a couple of weeks, pretty good return for their memories!
You are right it does not happen a lot, but it does happen.
It is all well and good that a player offers to give up some of his scholarship to get another player BUT I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it is not his money that he is giving away, but rather his parents. There is not a kid in the world who would not do anything to help his program, but again, it is not his money that he is playing with. I would have to tell my son that it is a very noble gesture, but unless he wants to get a job, it ain't happening. Scholarships, IMO, should be issued on talent and not need. I can't imagine a boss asking his emplyee to take a pay cut because his family had a healthy inheritence. The two just do not go together.
I understand offering books and a well off family being able to accept that, but I do not comprehend offering books to a player becasue he is "independently wealthy".
I understand offering books and a well off family being able to accept that, but I do not comprehend offering books to a player becasue he is "independently wealthy".
When you talk the economics at colleges keep in mind the schools that are baskeyball driven like Kentucky, Duke, UCONN---there is much money as a influx here--UCONN in fact just recently signed a multi million dollar deal with NIKE which in part will underwrite many scholarships
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
When you talk the economics at colleges keep in mind the schools that are baskeyball driven like Kentucky, Duke, UCONN---there is much money as a influx here--UCONN in fact just recently signed a multi million dollar deal with NIKE which in part will underwrite many scholarships
Good point but there again those schools are exception to the rule when you look at the whole college picture.
I agree that they are the exception