College coach says not interested..your thoughts on why.

There is really no way to speculate on why he was rejected without having seen him play.  

My best WAG would be a $$$ crunch/consideration, in state vs. out of state.  Probably not fully funded. 

CatsPop posted:

My best WAG would be a $$$ crunch/consideration, in state vs. out of state.  Probably not fully funded. 

This is correct. Don't take it personslly, its a business. And appreciate the fact that the coaches got right back to your son regarding the decision.

In addition to X number of scholarships the coach also has a budget. An out of state player costs more. It could be a couple of in state catching recruits are also performing well. 

There could have been something in his mechanics the head coach picked up on the assistant missed. 

You just keep plugging and it works out.

Sounds like stand up guys. High character coaches are ALWAYS honest w/ Players/ Recruits.

As far as why? Don't waste your time. Cross them off the list and move on to the next recruiting event .

Its tough to hear, but I think this coach did your son a favor.  Its a lot better then having him string him along or just stopping communication.  

Just another example of how excruciating this process is.  We seem to be in the stringing along camp, so I think I'd rather that painful phone conversation. 

In retrospect, maybe have your son ask why, but I'm sure he froze up thinking the conversation was going to go a different way.  Sounds like your son is a good player, keep plugging away...

Yes.its appreciated that they notified him right away...that shows me as well that they are an upstanding program..could someone please explain further the in state vs out of state considerations that programs must deal with?..thanks in advance...and yes we will keep plugging.

joes87 posted:

Its tough to hear, but I think this coach did your son a favor.  Its a lot better then having him string him along or just stopping communication.  

I agree. much better than just stopping conversation or even worse continue to give positive signs to keep you around as a plan C if everything else fails.

CatcherDadNY posted:

Yes.its appreciated that they notified him right away...that shows me as well that they are an upstanding program..could someone please explain further the in state vs out of state considerations that programs must deal with?..thanks in advance...and yes we will keep plugging.

If a program is fully funded, with only 11.7 scholarships to award, and the minimum is 25% bb money and a max of 27 players to award, coaches have a budget they must work with and unless an out of state recruit is able to afford the expensive OOS costs, especially tuition, the opportunity goes to the in state player. Unless there was a prior discussion about ability to pay, it isn't something most coaches are willing to do.  That's why most college rosters are made up of in state players.  It's very hard to expect people to be able to repay 100k or more when in state tuition is more affordable.

If the program isn't fully funded @11.7 then it might not be out of the ordinary to offer the opportunity. But still, as stated, college costs are rising and what one semester may be at time of recruitment may be much higher in 4 years.  Recently in a discussion with a parent, they had to take out 3 loans to pay for 2 semesters of an out of state program.  My mouth remained opened when told the costs for an out of state player.

It's pretty hard to really know 100% what really was on their minds, but they did seem to have interest in your son.

Reset the search, but be aware of total costs of all programs beforehand. 

Thanks tpm...very informative answer.

CatcherDadNY posted:

Thanks tpm...very informative answer.

No problem, pm if you have any more questions. Always remember that the more knowledge one gathers, the better prepared for the journey.

I have a question though, where did the coaches come to watch your son play?

BTW, is a D1 coach allowed to call right now, thought they had to wait until July 1?  Not trying to call out the coach, it's just so hard to understand the rules.  Or is the text to call a way to get around that?

CTbballDad posted:

BTW, is a D1 coach allowed to call right now, thought they had to wait until July 1?  Not trying to call out the coach, it's just so hard to understand the rules.  Or is the text to call a way to get around that?

July 1 is for off-campus contact (face to face). The coach could not have had that conversation with CatcherDadNY's son at the field after the game (assuming this was not on their campus). Phone and text contact starts September 1st of junior year.

Your son is doing something right if he has that level of attention from the coach. Especially if a head coach takes the time to watch him play. The fact that they let you know right away helps you move on to the next target school(s). Disappointing for sure but there is a silver lining. If for whatever reason your son starts looking at a D2 or D3, that NC school's recruiting coordinator could be come a very nice reference for another coach looking for info. I would have your son thank the NC recruiter for taking his time to watch, then ask if he can use him as a reference in the future in the appropriate situation. Good luck!

WestCoastPapa posted:

Your son is doing something right if he has that level of attention from the coach. Especially if a head coach takes the time to watch him play. The fact that they let you know right away helps you move on to the next target school(s). Disappointing for sure but there is a silver lining. If for whatever reason your son starts looking at a D2 or D3, that NC school's recruiting coordinator could be come a very nice reference for another coach looking for info. I would have your son thank the NC recruiter for taking his time to watch, then ask if he can use him as a reference in the future in the appropriate situation. Good luck!

No you dont want to use them as a reference because we dont know for certain what they were thinking. 

It doesnt always turn out well.

Great replies all...thanks..the tournament was black bear South Carolina...good competition and quite a few scouts there...saw a few equally talented catchers there from the south but none had his 6.8 60yard speed...Im feeling it will take a coach that will value speed and athleticism over a lot of the slow, heavy legged catchers out there...possibly seeing him as more versatile...he is 6ft 180lbs at 17 years old..

The fact that a recruting coordinator came to see him is a good thing....the fact that he brought the head coach out to see him is even better.  To me this means that your son is likely a good enough player to make it at that level.  My son had the same thing....several contacts....RC loved him....HC came out and it ended right then (different reason, lol, son had a rough game and acted like a 10 year old, but that's a different story for a diffrerent day lol)   Point is that HC's done come unless the RC is pretty sure he wants the kid.  I kind of agree with the others....talent wise, he's probably good enough, but the issue with out of state may be in play here....especially since they told your son they were going with "local" guys.   I'm sure he'll get more chances.  good luck

CatcherDadNY posted:

Great replies all...thanks..the tournament was black bear South Carolina...good competition and quite a few scouts there...saw a few equally talented catchers there from the south but none had his 6.8 60yard speed...Im feeling it will take a coach that will value speed and athleticism over a lot of the slow, heavy legged catchers out there...possibly seeing him as more versatile...he is 6ft 180lbs at 17 years old..

Catchers are not recruited for speed but rather pop time and power and leadership. It may very well be that your son needs to let coaches know that the catcher position isnt written in stone.  You dont want to sit behind someone for 3, 4 years.

great job to your son, we were in your shoes a few years ago.  Sounds like he'll end up somewhere good!  Tell him not to get discouraged at all!  Look at it this way, they could have told you to come on in and give it a shot, along with the other "local" boys, and then cut him at the end of the fall or spring!  That's the situation you want to avoid if possible.

Thanks.

CatcherDadNY posted:

Great replies all...thanks..the tournament was black bear South Carolina...good competition and quite a few scouts there...saw a few equally talented catchers there from the south but none had his 6.8 60yard speed...Im feeling it will take a coach that will value speed and athleticism over a lot of the slow, heavy legged catchers out there...possibly seeing him as more versatile...he is 6ft 180lbs at 17 years old..

A Catcher running a 6.8 sixty  will end up playing in a great college program provided the rest of their game fits what coaches are looking for.

it is amazing how athletic some of these Catchers are coming out of high school these days.  Just from my relatively small town (population 200,000 in Wisconsin) there is a 2019 Catcher who runs 6.9 committed to Missouri State, a 2018 who runs 7.0 heading to Creighton, and another 2018 Catcher heading to Gonzaga who runs a 6.9

3and2Fastball posted:

CatcherDadNY posted:

Great replies all...thanks..the tournament was black bear South Carolina...good competition and quite a few scouts there...saw a few equally talented catchers there from the south but none had his 6.8 60yard speed...Im feeling it will take a coach that will value speed and athleticism over a lot of the slow, heavy legged catchers out there...possibly seeing him as more versatile...he is 6ft 180lbs at 17 years old..

A Catcher running a 6.8 sixty  will end up playing in a great college program provided the rest of their game fits what coaches are looking for.

it is amazing how athletic some of these Catchers are coming out of high school these days.  Just from my relatively small town (population 200,000 in Wisconsin) there is a 2019 Catcher who runs 6.9 committed to Missouri State, a 2018 who runs 7.0 heading to Creighton, and another 2018 Catcher heading to Gonzaga who runs a 6.9

And I bet they would be staying local if there was a program there...

I've noticed that is becoming a more athletic position as well..perhaps a start of a trend, my son aside...it means a faster time to retrieve a pitch that ends up at the backstop, with pitchers throwing so many dirtballs on purpose these days, the catcher needs to be athletic and quick as a cat...

A catcher’s foot speed isn’t that important. It’s a plus if he does everything important to catching well. Catching isn’t for the big tubby kid anymore. With travel ball a lot of athletic kids are growing up catching. In the past they would have been the shortstop in their rec league due to the dispersal of talent. 

I wanted to post this earlier but Im on a work trip (Amsterdam, tough one to take) and was in a meeting when I put up my first post...

My son was in a situation very similar to yours.  Basically had a coach flat out tell him no with no explanation.  Very tough to take at the time.  But as I said, he did him a favor.  My son did not waste time contacting the school, nor was he wondering what was going on.  Once the school announced their recruiting class for the year it became obvious why they were not interested.  They only had 2 open positions and both player were lefty pitchers.  They were not looking for righty pitcher or position players.  If it had been another year they may have been interested, but their needs that year did not include the type of player my son was.

You really should appreciate the honesty. I know it's hard to think that way now, but later in the process you'll see it. My 2018 went through some schools that would show just enough interest to keep him hanging and, in retrospect, they were bad fits from the school's perspective and he was probably more of an insurance policy. 

roothog66 posted:

You really should appreciate the honesty. I know it's hard to think that way now, but later in the process you'll see it. My 2018 went through some schools that would show just enough interest to keep him hanging and, in retrospect, they were bad fits from the school's perspective andhe was probably more of an insurance policy. 

My guess is that the insurance policy part probably happens more often than folks realize...stringing along in case option A or B does not pan out. As has been stated on these boards in the past, a majority if not all recruiters do not do something (offer) unless they "have" to in most situations. 

WestCoastPapa posted:

roothog66 posted:

You really should appreciate the honesty. I know it's hard to think that way now, but later in the process you'll see it. My 2018 went through some schools that would show just enough interest to keep him hanging and, in retrospect, they were bad fits from the school's perspective andhe was probably more of an insurance policy. 

My guess is that the insurance policy part probably happens more often than folks realize...stringing along in case option A or B does not pan out. As has been stated on these boards in the past, a majority if not all recruiters do not do something (offer) unless they "have" to in most situations. 

I think you're right; that happens.  We had one school that seemed hot on my 2017 and kept in constant contact, until they stopped.  I checked PG and saw that another MIF from our general area had just committed there. Really good player.  I would have thought he would land in the Pac 12.  My reaction was, yeah, no question I'd take that kid too.

There is nothing wrong with contacting them by email or text and thanking them for their consideration and honesty.  Building bridges rather than tearing them down.  You could also state that since they had seen you play a couple of times, could they give you any things you needed to work on to make you a better player.  Understand some will answer and some won't but it just continues to build relationships and teaches you son that it is ok to ask these questions.  This is not combative but helps them understand that your son wants to be a better player.  I agree with the other posters that you would rather know where they stand than wonder over the next few weeks.

My 2019 recently received a message from an interested program that they are "going in a different direction."  Disappointing, but good to know.  They didn't give a reason, but I suspect he was a backup plan for them and they locked up a player who they had higher on their board.  They were never that hot after my son so we weren't counting on it in any event but it's good to have the certainty now and not waste any further time.  Especially as time is short now for DI 2019 spots.

There are D1 coaches looking for 2019 players. The problem is that there really isnt a lot of what they are looking for. There is a reason why they are still available. 

I dont mean that to negative, but it is what it is.

Yeah, rejection is a part of this business but I agree, it is better to know now. I do find it odd to call the early rejection a "stand up move". I guess I am behind the times on modern etiquette, I remember the days it was SOP to inform prospective candidates to chase their dreams elsewhere as soon as possible.

TPM posted:

There are D1 coaches looking for 2019 players. The problem is that there really isnt a lot of what they are looking for. There is a reason why they are still available. 

I dont mean that to negative, but it is what it is.

Outside of the Power 5 conferences and a few other "national power" schools in other conferences, the vast majority of commits are not ranked 1-499 in their class. In other words, for 70% of D1 schools, their recruits have ranks of "500" or "1000" -- they literally get no one ranked 1-499. Currently there are 75 kids ranked between 1-499 with no commitment listed on PG, plus hundreds of kids with a 500 ranking with no commitment. So it seems hard to believe that they can't find what they're looking for.

TPM posted:

CatcherDadNY posted:

Great replies all...thanks..the tournament was black bear South Carolina...good competition and quite a few scouts there...saw a few equally talented catchers there from the south but none had his 6.8 60yard speed...Im feeling it will take a coach that will value speed and athleticism over a lot of the slow, heavy legged catchers out there...possibly seeing him as more versatile...he is 6ft 180lbs at 17 years old..

Catchers are not recruited for speed but rather pop time and power and leadership. It may very well be that your son needs to let coaches know that the catcher position isnt written in stone.  You dont want to sit behind someone for 3, 4 years.

 

they most likely will cut his ass after 2 so he won't have to be overly concerned about that! your point is good about changing positions but in my experience they don't really ask where you want to play. They just tell what your new position is X and there you go.  

old_school posted:

TPM posted:

CatcherDadNY posted:

Great replies all...thanks..the tournament was black bear South Carolina...good competition and quite a few scouts there...saw a few equally talented catchers there from the south but none had his 6.8 60yard speed...Im feeling it will take a coach that will value speed and athleticism over a lot of the slow, heavy legged catchers out there...possibly seeing him as more versatile...he is 6ft 180lbs at 17 years old..

Catchers are not recruited for speed but rather pop time and power and leadership. It may very well be that your son needs to let coaches know that the catcher position isnt written in stone.  You dont want to sit behind someone for 3, 4 years.

 

they most likely will cut his ass after 2 so he won't have to be overly concerned about that! your point is good about changing positions but in my experience they don't really ask where you want to play. They just tell what your new position is X and there you go.  

Not necessarily true. FAU had 3 guys who could catch. 

The starting catcher ,broke his hamate bone, had a great back up while the other catcher was the DH. All 3 of these guys can mash the ball, if not catching, then they are still in the lineup at 1st or DH, because they are power guys.

The SS , a second round pick, was a catcher in HS and took over the starting role as catcher when the then starter was diagnosed with cancer. The common denominator was they all produced big hits.

If the player is good, they will find a place in the line up, guaranteed.  

roothog66 posted:

You really should appreciate the honesty. I know it's hard to think that way now, but later in the process you'll see it. My 2018 went through some schools that would show just enough interest to keep him hanging and, in retrospect, they were bad fits from the school's perspective and he was probably more of an insurance policy. 

CatcherDadNY,

100% agree with RootHog and others on this point.  God bless the honest coach who tells the recruit that the recruit's time, expectations and money is better spent looking elsewhere for a better fit. 

Tough message that almost every recruit hears one time or another.   Sorry, but disappointment is part of the gig and I know it made my son more determined than ever. 

Good luck to you and your son!

naïve question,  but how does academic money factor in.   My daughter very good grades, below avg sat, act  got offered 12-20k in money at almost every out of state school she applied to and in state private schools.    Can the coaches expect that type of help for out of state prospects?     What I have noticed is that the neighboring states to Texas,  and most of the SEC seem to offer Texas kids decent money especially the kids just outside the top 7%-10% cutoff to get into Texas and Texas A&M.