College coaches

Who's trying to approach the coach? You or your son? When and where? It was never my experience. Its never been an issue with either of my kids. Therefore I've never asked others. Coaches aren't any different than the real world. If you line up fifty management people from the work world some will be great leaders. Some will be full of them self.

My son and other players on the team feel he is totally unapproachable, I will not attempt to talk the coach, not my kind of thing.  But if a kid goes in to ask about what it would take to get some PT and all he says is "youre dressing and traveling arent you" and gives virtually no constructive feedback at all.  This guy has been around the block too, no newbie.

it is college. Let the kid deal with it.

Kids job not yours.

 

College baseball is about wining and putting the best 9 out there. This means that there are MORE kids not playing than are.

 

This is why you do "due diligence" when selecting a program. If your son with your help had talked all of the coaches, former players, current players, parents, administrators, fans, members here at HSBBW it would not come as a surprise. 

Good timing on this post. I was just talking to two freshmen softball players about this same thing this weekend. Their from the same HS and travel team but go to different colleges and were compairing the fact they are both having the same experience. I told them their coaches aren't bad nor are they wrong. It's just different. Your travel coach was your buddy. Your HS coach was your buddy. Your college coach IS NOT your buddy. They both laughed and said their travel coach said the exact same thing. Lol

Agree, no need to be a buddy to my son.  However, a person making over 100k for coaching baseball should have the capability of communicating on a certain level.  If he is giving my son a scholarship shouldnt he expect to have answers and constructive criticism.  When its a new coach and you are in his first recruiting class its hard to determine what he is like, as we al lknow they are cordial and nice in initial meetings etc.

About 18 players typically impact the season. This leaves 17 players potentially approaching the coach about playing time. I can understand why a head coach wouldn't want to deal with it. If I were a player wanting answers I would go to my position or hitting coach. Then a follow up question to the explanation could be, "If I put in the extra time, will you help me?" Make every situation constructive.

Welcome to the site and with all due respect - what is your son going to do about it?  This coach won't change his ways just because he / you are unhappy he can't give any answers to questions.  Your son has three options....

 

1) stay in the dark and possibly end up being a negative influence

2) transfer to another school to a coach who is more approachable

3) work his butt off so he stands out over everyone else and the coach cannot afford to leave him out of the lineup.  Basically become the perfect team mate

 

I'm not trying to tick you off but there is nothing anybody here can do to help your situation.  There's no insight to provide or anything that's really helpful.  Now if you're here to just vent then no problem.  I agree with you LOL 

BOF has nailed this.  Whichever college/university baseball program your son decides to play for has to be researched in depth.  You have to talk to the players and I'm not talking about the one chosen to walk your son around campus on an official visit.  Sit down at a lunch with them and listen to what is really being said about the team and coaches.  You, as a parent, have to ask these tough questions before the name is on the line.  I know parents think that if they ask this or that then the coach will lose interest in their son.  If that is the case, then you don't want your son playing there. 

lasorda, I tend to think you have the "expectations" misaligned.  The coach provided the scholarship.  I don't know that I can agree that it also follows that scholarship creates the "expectations" for the answer to the question you have summarized, especially during the season.

From your posts, I wonder if the coaches response is shorthand for saying your son had Sept., Oct., Nov., Dec., Jan. and 3 weeks of Feb. to listen, observe, ask and get the answers to the question what "would it take to get PT?"

RJM and BOF are on point. The coaches are working long hours before and after games to get the guys who are playing to play better and in positions to be properly prepared for each situation in  each upcoming game. To get a question roughly 1/2 way through the season on what "do I need to do to get PT" might well be telling the coaches the player didn't listen, observe and learn during the entire period of time those answers are being provided.

Personally, I think there was a message in the response you attributed to the coach and your son needs to figure out what that message was/is.

Infielddad makes a good point in your son needing to figure out what the message is.  My child is playing hurt. She "rolled her kneecap" and is having some considerable pain trying to run.  Anyway, coach took her out of a game with 2 innings left to play.  She wanted to know from us, parents, what she was being punished for.  Naturally, she was upset and not thinking.  I asked her to think about how coach acts, communicates, ... and ask herself if she was being punished.  She said that coach is a communicator and that he would have gotten after her if she had done something bad.  So, I said maybe he just sat you down because he wanted to rest that knee.  Lasorda, your son knows some of the answers as well.  You don't spend that much time together without knowing a little about what is going on.  Of course, my advice is always that he should ask to talk to his coach if he is in the dark.  JMHO!

Infield, definitely respect that answer.  I appreciate the feedback here gang.

Love Infield's response as well as others.  Also, regarding "unapproachable"...

 

Son is second year in college and has gone through two cycles of roughly 100 players showing up in fall, several cuts down to around 28 or so, and only about half of those 28 get regular PT.  Certainly, almost every one of these players are talented, were accomplished HS performers and come in with the intention of winning a spot.  So, that's potentially about 160 kids in two seasons asking coach what they can do to earn a spot on the team/ in the lineup, many of whom will be cut (let alone not get regular PT) and all of whom are not starting for a reason.  So, I think a bit of an "arm's length" approach is somewhat to be expected and at least understandable.

 

I know these numbers are not the same at most schools but the point is the same.

College coaches can't be all lumped together in any summary statement. 

 

I think what CAN be said is that whatever reality your son faces with his college coach is a reality that he will have to deal with. He won't change the coach. 

 

My son had two head coaches during his college career. The first one was WAY on the "unapproachable/non-communicative" end of the spectrum. Verbal, mental, even physical abuse was his coaching style. The players hated him. One year, two thirds of the team actually went to the Athletic Director in open mutiny to reveal the kind of things the coach did to the players. The AD backed the coach. 

 

My son was close to quitting at various times, but stuck it out. The coach mellowed a little bit, but in the end, his absolutely over-the-top style did him in. Players transferred, quit, and underperformed. The team never won much, coach got fired.

 

My son never liked the coach, but he did more-or-less figure out how to detach himself emotionally from the coach's antics. Many of his teammates could not. 

 

It was hard, as a parent, to watch this. But I kept telling myself that there are worse things than learning how to adjust to an irrational, abusive boss. It wouldn't be the last time he had a coach that he didn't like, and yes, this was extreme, but if he could survive this (and perhaps even excel in the midst of it) then it would be something he'd carry with him for the rest of his baseball career and life.

 

That's how it worked out. To this day, my son knows that he can endure almost anything because he was able to survive this coach. It's in the category of "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger." 

 

So my advice to any parent facing some version of this kind of coach is to just stand aside. Let your kid deal with it. It's not ideal, but there are some positive things in terms of your son's character that will definitely come from it. 

 

As a postscript, the coach that took over my son's college team in his senior year was almost the opposite of the first coach. A wonderful man, a great coach. Still a harda**, but baseball demands that. But never abusive over the top, and a very good communicator. 

 

We were thankful that our son had a year under the new coach after three years under the "terrorist regime.' But looking back, I am not sure I am sorry that he went through it. I think facing the three years of hardship has shaped him in a way that would never have happened otherwise. 

 

So, my counsel is to keep your own counsel. Let your son find his peace with an unreasonable situation. It won't be the last time he has to do this in his life and in his career, and this is a very good training ground for both.

 

 

       
       

lasorda1234, will be sending you a PM, sometime soon.

It's not always so black & white, but often more grey area...

* Coaches generally put their best PR face forward, when trying to get a prospect to commit.
* Geographically, & / or financially, it may not be feasible to go watch a Coach, and see how he runs his program.
* While HSBW is a tremendous resource, it, like anything else, is not always a perfect solution...
** meaning:
* Search bar info can yield old or no information, at times.
* Questions posted may go unanswered completely.
* Or they may get answered in such a manner, that isn't always "helpful", but hurtful. Maybe, why there are so many lurkers.

Our situation, Dad had a Stroke 4/2012. Lost ability to speak, etc. Can't be the voice of reason for his son, that he'd like to have been. It's been challenging.  When things fell to" Mom", I felt totally inept.
We have never been the kind of parents to ever go to a Coach!  Son knows it is his to handle. And tries to. Never had the need to, before College. It's been a learning & growing experience.  And with rehabbing from TJ surgery, that Coach wanted him to have, prior to starting Freshmen year...it's kind of left son at a point of unclarity.  No support or interest during this time, from Coaches. But, this time has allowed son, a bird's eye view of Staff & program. And witnessing many starters coming down with season ending injuries, even before the season began. And he quickly learned what 4 letter word is the Coaches favorite word. He uses it often and frequently at players, regardless of whom is present. 

Took an 18 hr. Train trip with our son over Spring Break. Ironically,  son's seatmate, sitting behind Dad & I, ended up being a baseball player from our area. They had played against each other in High School, and visited some of the same colleges.

Let's just say...it's hard to sleep overnight on a train, and you can certainly learn a lot about how College, Coaches & Baseball Programs really are!!!

Oh... I forgot...JMO!!! 

Sometimes I wonder how much of the issue is the coach and how much is players accustomed to being worshipped from LL through high school now facing the first time in their baseball life they're just one of the players on the roster. I'm guessing the latter is more of an issue than the former.

       
       


Possibly, there are Prima Donna's in anything. Hopefully, a team has been coached with the philosophy of "There's No 'I' In Team"! For Baseball truly is a team effort. That same kind of bonding with teammates, can serve as support, encouragement, and motivation. College ball is a lot different than High School. Everyone was former High School starting players. The best will start. But, if you don't,  don't let up. Work at it, and when your opportunity presents itself, be ready to make the most of it. Let your playing, do your talking.

My two cents.....Nope.  I don't have those feelings at all.  Recruits and players pick the program and coach....they have the final say where little Johnny goes to college to play college baseball.

 

It really doesn't matter what the Boards experience is, because the reality of it is his college coach is his boss.  Every boss is different.  Again, these decisions come down to the player as he gets to choose his boss.   In my world this is entirely on the recruit and eventual player.

 

He will have many bosses in his life time and may have had a few already.  He needs to figure it out, and look to his future.  Most players and recruits get caught up in "today", and don't understand what motivates their boss.  It is no different than the business world.  Bosses like to hire people that are going to make them look good and open doors for their next career move.  It is no different with College coaches.

 

As a college baseball parent, it is best to observe, councel, and be there for him if he wants to talk about it.  Ive seen great and dynamic coaches and I've seen terrible coaches.  Remember this program was his choice, so if there is anyone to be mad at it is the guy in the mirror.

The looking in the mirror part I dont think is the biggest part here.  I mean the kid was recruited by the coach as his first recruiting class, the dog n pony show was in place and wowing him on his past accomplishmentsas a coach etc.not a ton of investigations truly could have been done with players etc.Then low and behold he brings in 2 JUCO kids just out of the blue which wreaked a little havoc in his ability to get immediate PT last year in his position, however he did get in halfway last yr and performed quite well and started the last 20+ games, but now he all of a sudden has to fight and scratch to play, and believe you me its not like anyone on this team tears it up whether it was in the fall or winter let alone going into this spring.  The AD I know has been approached, not by myself.  Anyhow, this is just a venting situation for me as was described before.  I have only encouraged my son to go talk to the coach as thats the only way to get some reaction and if he does not then he will need to just continue to work hard and cheer on the team which he does, there is no doubt about that.

 however he did get in halfway last yr and performed quite well and started the last 20+ games, but now he all of a sudden has to fight and scratch to play

 

Thats the nature of sports above the HS level.  You are constantly looking over your shoulder to see who is coming up behind you.  I ran track in college.  Though no one would admit it every year they were nervous to see who the frosh , the transfers and the JUCO kids were.  Always somewhat stressing that the "new kid" was going to be better then you and take your spot away.  I qualified for the national championship my sophomore year (basically in the top 16 in the country).  I was unable to compete due to an injury.  I qualified again my jr. and sr. years.  It did not guarantee that the coach was not going to bring in someone better or that I was immune from having to earn my position every year.  I would say the fact that there was always the uncertainty of someone taking your spot away was a motivating factor to keep a lot of kids from getting complacent and stop trying to improve themselves.  

The moment the player commits to the school, the coaches job switches from recruiting the player, to recruiting a better player.  

So true.  Coaches never stop recruiting.  Your job is never safe.  Did good last year?  What do you have this year?  

 

My son's team had 17 new players this year.  Something like 12 were JC and D1 transfers.  And that's not including the transfers that were there the year before.  So starting this year, he's not just competing against who was here last year, but all the new guys as well.  Two of the 3 weekend starters are guys who were not here last year.  The third is a D1 transfer that was here last year, but was out after one start with TJ surgery.  Fortunately, my son is the only one getting significant conference game innings that was here last year.  There are a couple of guys getting some innings here and there, but not many.  One of the guys that wound up being a weekend starter for the 2nd half of the season last year is getting very few innings this year.  Almost no conference innings.  

 

Things are very competitive at the college level.  Even D2.  I would imagine it's not much different in D3, JUCO or NAIA either.  What have you done for me lately?

It's not different, from my experience.

 

My alma mater's a D3. I was a couple of years older than the traditional student and fresh off active duty my junior year (so I was in extremely good shape.) The first half of spring semester, I took a baseball/softball class as FOT from my pretty rigorous coursework. The instructor was the school's HC. On January 31, he had no clue I existed, and February 15, he wanted me on the roster, which means he thought I was better than someone who was already there.

 

Coaches will fill what they need, when they need, when they can find it.

Bingo! Nothing is guaranteed. Not even the roster spot.

While I fully agree with RJM that no roster spot is guaranteed and playing time is less certain, I am really concerned if folks think most college coaches switch to recruiting a new and better player once recruiting the current player ends.

While there may be places that is true, it is also true that college coaches spend incredible amounts of time working to get their current players better.  Some extend considerable patience and many are working long before early work begins and long after practice ends, especially during the college season.

To use one coach we know as an example, the coach arrived home after a Friday night game at around 10:15pm.  Grabbed a quick leftover dinner, said hello to his wife and headed to his office to use the Friday night information to  update his game plan for the game tomorrow at 1pm.

His evening finished around 1:30am.  He was up at 5:30 am before his family, so he could get to an early morning coaches meeting before the team arrived. At 9am he started early work...for those who arrived. This is a volunteer coach who does not get paid and who relishes doing this because his college coaches did it for him and helped make him the player he knew he could be when few others ever thought of him as that type of player.

Good colleges coaches(not all) are incredibly invested in getting their players better game by game, AB by AB.  When that happens, the team is better and it is better next year because they can use recruiting money for another spot in the field or in the line up or on the mound.  11.7 does not give college coaches too many misses.  Our experience is college coaches are very frustrated when players under-perform expectations for whatever reason.

Learned that politics is still alive and well at the collegiate level. Some of what my early post was inadvertently referring to about it not always being so Black & White...but, sometimes more of a grey area...
Case in point, nephew, a LHP & CF, highly recruited, but chose a school for academics and baseball.  Upon signing his LOI, he was first asked by the College H.C., which position was it that he was wanting to play. He excelled at both, and is a good batter too. Well, his response was: "Well, in a perfect world...both!" The Coaches were thrilled! That was what they were hoping he'd say.
Fall Ball...into Spring Season...not much playing time. And it isn't being a Prima Donna, when a player knows that he could play and contribute better than some that are playing. Meanwhile, the H.C. had actually come up to my nephew, more than a couple times, privately sharing that he knew that my nephew was better than X,Y, & Z starting players. But, that his hands were tied, at least for awhile, because of X, Y, & Z's Father's affiliations,  contributions, etc., etc.

Well, when nephew finally got to really play, he's stayed starting for the most part. And greatly contributed. 

Not JMO...but, fact!

At every school in this country there is someone sitting on the bench that "knows" he is better than one of the players on the field. If it were up to him, he would be playing. At every school there are parents of players who just can't understand why their boy is sitting on the bench when he is much better than the players on the field.

 

Unfortunately, it is up to the coach rather than the players or their parents. Maybe that's not so unfortunate. Wonder what it would be like without someone in charge of making those decisions?

 

You could say politics or at least favoritism are always involved in a way.  I like this kid more than I like that kid!  That is playing favorites!  Now, if the reason is related to something other than putting the best players on the field that give you the best chance to be successful, you have a bad coach that isn't very competitive.  There are many more good coaches than there are bad.

 

If someone other than the coaching staff is dictating who is in the lineup, you have a very weak coach.

 

One more thing, people make mistakes!  At least I know that I make mistakes.  Coaches make mistakes at times.  Why can't he just be a making a mistake by not playing someone? That sounds better than politics and all the other reasons why someone is not in the lineup.

 

"My son is not playing and I think that is a mistake" That sounds better than the coach is stupid or he is unfair and playing politics.

Found out I could only like the post, not each sentence and paragraph, so....

Some really good responses in this topic.

Here's the deal. The recruiting period is courting time, once the player shows up the honeymoon is over.

Ask anyone if that is true and they will agree 100%. 

 

I agree with those that have said if your son has to go back this time of year and ask what he needs to do to get more playing time, he either slept though the fall or thinks that he is just better than everyone else, or as mentioned, a coach making over a 100K a year should be "nicer" with his responses.  No way!

 

FWIW, the best players in any sport are full of themselves and egotistical, so are the best coaches as well.  If any of your sons are in a winning program, there is a good reason for it. 

 

My son played for Jack Leggett at Clemson. The boards were full of negative comments about him during that time, it was laughable. Not sure my son would be where he is without that experience of playing under Jack Leggett. Did he always think he was a good guy, definetly not.  But reality is, that is why so many of his players get drafted, that is why so many of his coaching staff are HC at very big programs.  Once son learned to adjust his attitude and not expecting the coach to adjust his, things became clearer. 

 

I have to chuckle about the comment of the coach bringing in JUCO guys.  Even coaches with much more experience do that same thing, in fact so does just about every bb program in the country as well as every ML team in baseball so the same.

 

Parents, stay out of it, let your son figure it out for themselves, learn to be a good listener, they do not need your advice, they will be better men for it.

Leggett also played college football. The intensity might come from his partial football mentality.

Jack actually let his coaches coach.  He rarely raised his voice, he didn't have to.  He was the boss, you didn't question anything he did.  You just did it. You figured it out for yourself why later.  If you weren't playing, YOU knew why. When the team lost, he spent hours trying to figure out what went wrong and what he could improve, he never placed blame on anyone but himself.

 

Before one ACC game in 100 degree heat in Jacksonville, the team had to wear their wool jerseys for practice.  He made them suffer just a bit that morning. The team went on to win the ACC championship and on to Omaha that year. He made you think about your game as well as what makes you who you are.

 

But you never went to Jack to ask questions, he made it uncomfortable in that way for his players. If you had a personal problem or trouble with classes his door was always open.  You discussed what you could improve with your hitting or pitching coach.

 

If you cut class, you better just turn in your walking papers. Zero tolerance.

 

He did right by my son and we will always be grateful. But to be honest there wasn't always a love fest going on, it rarely is at ANY program! Parents just don't get that.

 

Some guys are really hated, rightfully so.

 

Not sure if intense is the right word, but yes, the most successful coaches are intense for sure!