College Knuckleballer?

Reviving this thread....

Oldest son (college senior) had been seriously working with his college pitching coach & catcher this Fall on his knuckleball.  Based on son's account (he is his toughest critic) it was unhittable in internal and external scrimmages.  This is a pitch he threw when he was younger, and it was quite good.  However, college hitters are a different matter entirely.  This could potentially be added to a repertoire of 4 pitches he already commands.  

The ask.....just want to know if there are any current/former college pitchers (or parents of college pitchers) that tried this in real competition.   How did it go?   Was it effective?  What were the challenges?  Any input is appreciated.

I'm under the general impression that the problem with the knuckleball for a pitcher who has an acceptable FB/CB/whatever is that it's difficult to mix the knuckler in as a secondary pitch while maintaining the delivery that makes the other pitches work. And that's before consideration of the other downsides to the knuckler (like finding a catcher who can catch it or a coach who'll give it a chance).

I tend to agree with the above. Knuckleballers become knuckleballers because they usually become  unsuccessful with their other pitches.  It's usually not the secondary pitch but the primary, from my understanding for reasons above.

IMO your son should be concentrating on the more important stuff, especially if he wants to go to the next level, where the FB and CU and CB and even the cutter (think Mariano Rivera) are much more desired.  He might get away with being successful this year, which is great, if it doesn't mess up his other stuff.  

Some people think that the more pitches that you have in your delivery makes you desirable, but then there is that opinion jack of all trades but master of none. 

Just an FYI story, my son and another pitcher were caught by his pitching coach ( their last year in college) trying to throw knucklers in practice. He told them  if they weren't starters they would have been benched.

Either way, best of luck and keep us informed.

The coach sounds like a real winner.    

I'm sure the pitchers were not serious. 

Yes he is a real winner!

Kevin O'Sullivan the Head Coach of University of Florida and former Clemson pitching coach.

As far as the pitchers being serious, my son was the 71st pick of the draft that year and the other the 4th.

You don't work your butt off as a pitching coach to get your guys to the next level only to have them mess it up by trying to throw a pitch that is not that easy for most.

I have definitely come to the conclusion that you never offer anything of value here other than to stir the pot.

I would say TPM's opinion would be popular among most college coaches. If Fenway's son's coach doesn't agree with that and wants to have his knuckleball be part of his arsenal of pitches, I say why not. I for one would love to see it.

I agree I was only pointing out that there are various opinions (mine included), and a lot has to do with what the pitcher already brings to the table. If this will help HIM become a better pitcher why not.  One will only know when the time comes if it's working or not.

I am not saying that the coach is making a bad decision for Fenway's son. He did ask if anyone's player had experienced it and I was telling a story that happened to son back in college.

Referencing that son's coach must have been a winner, is just another ludicrous, stupid example of the type of answers given by some when asked advice.

Don't post if you have no clue who or what you are posting about.

Thinking about it I don't think that I have ever seen a college KB pitcher. I am certainly not an expert, but I guess that says something about the success of the pitch. 

My son was messing around with a knuckle curve this summer (which he also threw when he was younger) and I asked him if he was going to try throw it this fall and he said "I can't throw it for strikes consistently and if I can't do that then the coach won't let me throw it, nor would I even attempt it"

My son says his head coach "goes crazy walking around the dugout screaming like a mad man if a pitcher is not throwing strikes" 

I think the real problem with the KB is that it is a HB (Homerun Ball) if you can't throw it consistently. 

Speaking of pot, don't you have something on the stove?  

Is this supposed to be funny?, because I don't find your humor amusing.

Again, don't post negative stuff unless you know who you are posting about.

Thanks for the replies.  I appreciate it, and I know you are trying to help.  I seek honesty.  Some of the thoughts you've shared have crossed my mind when he first told me he was working on the knuckleball.  I also had reservations but I know he and his coach know what they are doing.  Ultimately, it is their call to implement something they've practiced into a live game.

Truthfully, I think most of this is situational.  He earned a weekend starting pitcher spot his freshmen year, and sophomore year.  He was first team all-conference sophomore year, and was injured last year (junior year).  His team won the conference his sophomore year, and he was a big part of it.    He's 100% healthy now as a senior, and he had a great Fall season.   He's not that interested in being drafted (he has pending job offer) so this will be his last college baseball year unless something really strange happens.  His team is loaded with experienced pitching this year.   We haven't discussed it face to face yet, but I suspect he is doing anything he can do to be effective on the mound and help his team win another championship.  I've been watching college baseball pretty closely for the last 5-6 years.   I have yet to see a knuckleball in competition, so that is why I'm asking this board this particular question.  I have my reservations, but I trust his judgment 100%.  He knows what he is doing mechanically, and mentally at all times.  Pitching is a chess match to him, and the knuckleball could be another chess piece.

My biggest concern is the running game.  He's very good at holding runners, and picking them off.  He's been working with the presumed starting catcher, and he's got a good arm/pop time.   I'm going to assume the knuckleball will be thrown occasionally, and the catcher has learned how to block it.  His 4 normal pitches were pretty good in 2 of the last 3 years.  So, I guess if he can mix it in as a setup or finishing pitch (throwing it for a strike) it may not be such a bad thing.   But, I don't see him using the knuckleball as a primary pitch since his other pitches are pretty good.

Again, thanks for the thoughts.

Yeah, they certainly can get kind of angry when you don't throw strikes.

Fenway,

I don't think I have ever seen a KB either in the college game and I have not seen it on the milb level either.  Now I know why Sully was not happy with the boys!

Best of luck to your son, let us know how he does.

Fenway, 

In another thread, I looked at the history of various MLB knuckleballers.  Nearly all had been conventional pitchers who turned to the knuckleball after they turned pro when injury, age, or natural ceiling threatened their careers.

WIth that background, it is surprising to hear that your son is making the switch, given the success he has had as a D1 pitcher, how late in his college career it is, and how ambitious his non-baseball career goals are.  Do you know whose idea this is and what prompted it?

FWIW, last year the Orioles directed one of their minor league pitchers, a journeyman who reached AAA in his late twenties, to switch to the knuckleball.  Not sure of the reasons for it or how well it's progressing.  

TPM & Swampboy,

Thanks for the replies.   I do recall going to a Portland SeaDogs (Red Sox AA) game a few years ago and there was a knuckleball pitcher in MiLB.   I wish I could remember his name.   I know my son would remember it.   So I know there are possibly a few knuckleballers out there in MiLB.   No doubt they decided to be knuckleballers to extend their careers.  

In my son's case, the knuckleball would be an additional pitch not a primary pitch.  That is one of the reasons for the posting question.  His velocity may actually be more than it was a couple years ago (he re-habbed, no surgery), and he is commanding all his pitches.  I suspect it was his idea, but I'll know more in a few weeks when he comes home.  No idea what prompted it.  I'm getting the sense this is new territory/new situation which I kind of expected.

Freeway;

Our MSU Baseball Team entered the College World Series with a knuckleball pitcher Bud Erickson who won 6 games in the Big 10 conference. There was no question that he was a major factor to our team.

Also on the team was the three QB from the Rose Bowl team, including Earl Morrall, future NFL and three players, who later played MLB.

"Throw" the knuckleball, if you desire. As long as you win, no one will say a word, except the hitters.

Bob