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College Recruiting Offers - Opportunities evaporating

C 32CountMember
I've been reading about the college recruiting process and trying to put it to use for my son. I've learned a lot but obviously not enough. Now I have a question that I don't know the answer to. I tried to keep this short but couldn't.

My son is a senior and a position player at a hs known for academics rather than sports. However, he has played on very competitive baseball teams each summer that has won some national titles and been very competitive in PG events the last few years.

He has gotten notice for his baseball skills from colleges and professional scouts. He stopped growing at 5'10 and weights 165. I feel that may be one of the reasons he is not attracting some of the attention he wants. His 60 speed is 7.0. He is known as a very good contact hitter and for his great defense and is ranked easily within the PG top 500. He has won MVP awards and set high school and county records (county is known for baseball in a metropolitan area), even for his travel team.

He received several inquiries from D1, D2 and D3 colleges over the last year. July 1st came and very few phone calls came. Finally, the phone started ringing about a week later. Several mid to lower level D1's, several D2 and NAIA schools. Only one offer from a lower level D1 school. A few calls from top D1 schools came at the end of July and early August and he has been receiving regular phone calls from coaches at a few mid-majors and 2 SEC, 2 ACC schools but no additional offers.

The SEC and ACC schools have each said he is on their list but not in their top tier. They've been keeping him on a string. One SEC school told him last week they were going to offer him next week if their first guy turned them down.

He has two Ivy's that are seriously interested but we just found out that we don't qualify for financial aid (Darn that promotion in 2005!). We can't afford to send him to an Ivy on our dime without struggle.

Maybe we were too picky. He is a very good student and wanted a top 30 college and a top 50 baseball program (or an Ivy). He really had his heart set on an Ivy but was satisfied with his 'backups' if things didn't work out.

So right now we have one offer from a school that doesn't have strong academics or a strong baseball program. His mother and I have other opinions but he is excited about attending. Other than that, we have no offers and the Ivy's may not be a possibility. He's lost contact with some of the mid level colleges because he hasn't initiated contact. He is very busy and chose to spend what little time he had focusing on the SEC and ACC schools that were contacting him weekly as well as his Ivy interests.

5 to 7 professional scouts are following him and a few told us he will be drafted. I'm sure our expectations were too high, but we can't quite understand the lack of firm college offers.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed? We'd like to 'market' him and initiate contact with some of the schools that contacted him earlier in July or even contact schools that haven't shown an interest that meet his/our criteria. We're concerned that schools already have their recruiting paths laid out.

Thanks for all of the advise I've gotten from hsbbw over the last few years. Any advise would be appreciated.
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fanofgamefanofgame5,000+ posts
I am not an expert. But things can still happen his senior year. My son got a D1 offer in April of his senior year. A school he had never even contacted. He ended up not there but things can happen all the way into the summer. But in the mean time keep contacting and sending letters. Your son sounds set on playing at the higher level D1s as many of the boys are. Maybe your being picky, but if your son is set on playing at a certain school then let him keep going after it. If he is that set then maybe a junor college could be an option. My son is at one and we are actually very relaxed and happy with his decision. I thought it would be the end of the world a year ago. he had good grades and good SAT but wasnt getting the attention he wanted. There were a lot of good academic D3s looking at him but he wasnt sold. We really backed off and let him go after his dream. I know he will play somewhere in two years barring no injuries. He is happy with his decision. I feel for what your dealing with , sounds very similar to my sons situation going into his senior year. Good luck to you, you will get a lot more expert advice than mine. I am just a mom but I know one thing it has to be their choice even if it turns out to be bad one, then they learn from it. Its hard to let that happen but we finaly did and our house is at peace and looking forward to fall ball. My son hit his first college HR in college today so that was exciting. Best of luck keep us posted.
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
First you need to ignore the scouts' comments of "he will be drafted". Maybe he will and maybe he won't. Proceed as if he won't. Every recruiting situation is different so there is no cookie cutter approach to selecting a college. You might need to put a little pressure on the coaches by asking point blank questions. They tend to leave players "dangling" and sometimes an adult (if the son is not assertive) needs to ask "Where exactly does my son stand with you?" --- this could shed some light on the situation. I also might add that having three people (2 parents and a player) with different opinions of where he should attend school and different opinions of academics vs. athletics does create additional confusion in the recruiting process. The family needs to establish how to go about the process and who will make the college selection. In other words the family needs to get on the same page. I think this would give your son a better sense of direction. We can only make decisions based on information we have gathered and it sounds as if you're not getting sufficient information in the coach/player conversations. Ask more questions.
I see this is your first post on the HSBBW and a good one I might add. Hopefully others will express their opinions about your questions and your son will find a good fit both athletically and academically.
Fungo
T threestrikesyourout10+ posts
It is not over till 8/16 of there senior year. My son sign his 7/24 of his senior season kids leave/the draft. These coaches will talk to you if they want your son.I talk to the coach of a big 12 school that seen my son in Alanta he had money left offer my boy in mid july.He did not except he went to a mid major to have a chance to play as a two way player.I would hold on contact the coaches if it goes past jan 15 then sign with a juco still contact coaches after that make sure you play summer ball with 2010. so the coaches will come see him also go to camps of the school he wants to attend.
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
The SEC and ACC schools have each said he is on their list but not in their top tier. They've been keeping him on a string. One SEC school told him last week they were going to offer him next week if their first guy turned them down.
...
Maybe we were too picky. He is a very good student and wanted a top 30 college and a top 50 baseball program (or an Ivy). He really had his heart set on an Ivy but was satisfied with his 'backups' if things didn't work out.

Welcome to the hsbbweb Smile Good questions indeed!

There is plenty of time. Secondly, don't wait for the phone to ring. Agressively research and/or contact each school he has previously heard from and I'll bet there is a jewell on the list he just has not considered.

A top 30 and a top 50 may be possible but he might not ever see the playing field at a program like that. I would be reluctant to be some coach's second choice so would quit waiting for the phone to ring from those programs.

Finally, baseball is most fun when you win. My son and I would rather win at another division than lose at D1. That gets old in a hurry and most likely there will be no scouts watching your games. There are premier D2, D3, and NAIA programs out there that meet all of your sons requirements and still leave open the possibility of playing past college (if he desires). Some of the best baseball in America is played in the Peach Belt Conference, for example. Go back and look at your list of schools who have previously contacted him. I'll bet there is already a superb candidate just waiting for you to contact them.
Infield08Infield081,000+ posts
quote:
But, my question to the HSBBW community, how do you decide which schools you actually send applications to by November 1st?


99batspeed, you send applications to the schools you would be interested in attending if baseball were not a factor. If you get an offer after that date from a school you did not apply to, the coach will do all in his power to ensure that you get accepted to the school -- even if it is the summer after your senior year.

32count, you've gotten some good advice so far. Here are a few additional thoughts....

* Even if your son is drafted, he may not be drafted until the 35th round, which would mean little to no signing bonus and little chance at making an impact in the MLB. Yes, being drafted means that his college tuition would be paid for after he leaves the pro baseball system, but it also means that his opportunity to ever play college ball would be stripped away. Also, assuming that he doesn't make it to the majors, it may be very difficult for him to muster the drive and motivation to attend college as a 22-year-old or a 25-year-old.
* Given the fact that your son has maxed out at 5'10" and currently weighs 165, he may be in over his head trying to attend a top 50 baseball school. It might behoove you to lower your sights a little. You say he is easily in PG's Top 500 list. That is good, but top 50 baseball schools probably target Top 200 players from the outset and work their way "downward" as their A-list prospects begin declining their offers.
* Being kept on a string is a good way to describe your son's current situation with the SEC and ACC schools. This also occurred to my son last year, who got weekly calls for 2 months and then was told that they wouldn't be able to make an offer after all. (Obviously, my son was a B-list prospect for this school and their A-list prospect accepted an offer, so they marked my son off the list.)
* It is still actually pretty early in the recruiting process and your son may get a lot of calls later this month, in October, and early November. Be patient if the right fit has not come along yet!
* I'm not saying this is optimal, but if an Ivy League school strongly appeals to your son, he can always take out college loans.
* Definitely have your son market himself to the schools which contacted him a month ago and also to other schools in which he's interested.
* The most important thing to emphasize is that everything will work out in the end!! I can completely empathize with your impatience, frustration, and lack of understanding, as that was where my family was at this time last year, but based on what you've shared about your son and his talent level, I feel very confident that he will have multiple offers from multiple divisions as his senior year progresses.

Best wishes as you proceed. Please keep us posted!
C 32CountMember
I love this website. You guys are great! I appreciate each of the comments so far and each of you have given me something to think about.

Fungo, you're absolutely right. We are ignoring the scouts comments but I wanted to share that information to say that he's not a 'big fish in a small pond' necessarily. His talent has been noticed but I hope we're not looking through rose colored glasses about what this means for college recruiting. I really like your idea of questioning the coaches. I've been following the various other recruiting topics with great interest. We're going to have a family meeting to determine our next steps and your comments help a lot.

Fanof the Game & Three strikes, excellent advise as well, and thanks for sharing your experience. My son was interested in having things sewn up by November but it looks like we'll need to do some expectation adjustments. It is good to know from your experience that things can still work out. I'm trying to guide him but also let him work through the process so he'll end up someplace he is happy.

It's good to know there is still time, but it seems like all of the top 30-50 schools are locking up their entire 2009 class. I've been telling him to choose based on the academics and the rest of the college experience and that baseball is the 'gravy'. I've been thinking about suggesting to him that he eliminate baseball from the decision, get someplace he really likes, and try to walk on. I don't want to crush his dream and hope that a good combination (Top 30 or so school and a top 50 baseball program) is still possible.
YoungGunDadYoungGunDadHSBaseballWeb member since 2005
32Count. Welcome to the most informative baseball site for parents available - HSBBW!

From reading your post it made me smile because you sound like a very proud Dad of his son. And rightly so. Your son sounds like a player.

I can speak from experience to your feelings of anxiosness and confusion about this entire process. It is normal I think for our sons to have aspirations to play at the highest level. After July 1 it becomes a reality after a period of time that perhaps they may need to look at other levels if they want to play at the next level. Many on here can attest to the D1 dreams becoming nightmares when they make it there to find out they may not see any major playing time until their Junior year, if then. Some D1 early 08 NLI players from last fall were just informed in early August (08) that they had no place on the team and to look elsewhere.

When it began to become evident to younggun about his chances to actually play early, be close to home, attend a very prestigious academic school, etc. then it made it easier for him and us.

I'm sure you have, but I'll ask anyway. Have you sat down with son and made out a list (in order) of what is most important to your son? I think once you've done that it will become evident as to what programs to market him to. We made a few visits and had interest from schools a good bit away from us and younggun was high on them at the time. But when he realized the distance (by visiting) all of a sudden I could tell by his posture that they all of a sudden went out the window.

Good luck. Try to breath. And most important, try to remain upbeat in front of son because he is just as frustrated and confused as you and needs that anchor to calm him during this time.
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
Actually being a big fish in a little pond might not be as straight forward as you think. If you think that there are not top players in D11 , D111 ,JC ,Naia or small colleges I would retink that idea.
What ever you decide your son had better go prepared to play his best ball and compete against some extremely talented players at all divisions. The main thing these top schools whidh was never in our vocabulary is deeper talent and possibly better coaching but that doesn't stop scouts from drafting out of those small ponds.
Why would you promote walking on to your son?

We didn't finalise our deal until sept 3 weeks before college started. There was still lots of scholarship money available.
Last edited by BobbleheadDoll
Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts
There is a lot of good baseball at high academic schools outside the ACC and the SEC. Though early commitments are more and more common, schools in conferences like the CAA or Big South do tend to be more patient, often scooping up kids who had their hopes set on SEC/ACC who ended up just where your son is. MLB is peppered with players from these schools, too, so it's not like there aren't pro opportunities there if that's what your son wants for his future. In fact, if you want to get drafted, you need to go where you will play.

FWIW, I would be very wary of a school that has already told junior he is their second choice. This is a school that already views him as second best and will not hesitate to recruit behind him. I'm not saying they're right, I'm just saying they're pretty much telling you where he stacks up in their eyes. Maybe your guy will play his way into the lineup, or maybe they are the types to never budge from their initial impression. Be careful. 4 years on the bench is not the baseball experience your son wants, I'll wager.

I do agree that you should identify target schools and not wait for folks to come to you. Schools to look at would include William & Mary, James Madison, University of Richmond, and Elon. In the ACC, Duke, Maryland, BC and Va. Tech are often also later than others in the recruiting process and there are great academic and baseball opportunities at each.

If he makes a strong initial contact, then gives the teams a good chance to look at him (is he going to Jupiter?), something could still happen by the November signing period. If not, or if you feel you need time to check out the campuses, etc., you can always visit on into the fall and verbal over the winter, sign in April.

As for the pro thing: There's getting drafted, and there's getting drafted. A whole lot of guys who get drafted get offered no money other than the $7,000 rookie league salary. It does not sound like your son is in line for a big signing bonus even if he does get picked, so I would keep your focus on the college decision, since apparently he is a very strong student.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Welcome to the HSBBW, great posts and great responses.
I strongly agree with the others, take the "he will get drafted" out of the equation, don't even think about that for now. Besides, scouts don't draft you all they do is make recommendations. And I agree with getting on the same page, by sitting down and discussing it and targeting what would be the best "fit" for your son. The best fit to me sounds like a strong academic program (have you filled out teh financial info at the IVY schools) with good baseball where he will play and not sit. He's excited about the offer because it gives him an opportunity he thinks that he might not get later. It's early yet.

I think that the coaches of the larger D1 programs have not been stringing you along but been honest, they will wait for their top choices to sign first, so in reality they have been honest with you. And don't forget, they may NOT offer your son anything, but a chance to become a recruited walk on.

I read over Clevelanddad's post a few times and I definetly agree with his comments about winning vs. losing. Losing gets old, real quick. Therefore, choosing a program in another division with a winning record is better than choosing one in a D1 with a losing record. And again, there is plenty of time, as stated your son has until next summer. Don't settle thinking he will have no other choices.
But most important, don't forget, go where you will get the best education AND play baseball.

JMO.
Last edited by TPM
CollegeParentNoMoreCollegeParentNoMore1,000+ posts
Still being in high school gives your son a lot of choices. He doesn't need to jump at the first half-decent opportunity. i.e. a kid on the Fresno state team didn't get any offers before he graduated from HS. He played on a local connie mack team and got drafted in a very late round as a draft and follow. He was planning on going to a local JC but Fresno found him and signed him before the end of summer. Things worked pretty out good for Steve Detwiler.

Going the JC route is not a bad choice if your not sure about the offers your son gets. I would certainly recomend against the walk-on option unless the coach has seen your son play several times and seems "committed" to your son.

A decent JC program will get your son more "quality" exposure then he could ever get in high school or in most showcases.
Last edited by CollegeParentNoMore
fanofgamefanofgame5,000+ posts
Collegeparent,
good post and excellent points. At some of the Junior colleges there are scouts all the time. Top colleges as well as pro. That was the point I was trying to make earlier. If your not getting the looks you want its a good alternative to get stronger and work on yur game and actually play.
For the original poster it sounds like his son is very strong academically so maybe thats not an option. My son had good grades and good Sats enough to get into most schools except Stanford, and the IVIES.But my main thought is dotn stress there is somewhere to play. enjoy your senior year it goes by so fast. Our sons senior year was picture perfect and we have lasting memories and we had so much fun. Enjoy it. Something will work out if he has some tools to play as the original posters son does. Just dont stress, I know thats easy to say, TPM told me all the time last year not to stress to enjoy and she was right. No amt. of stress will changethe outcome anyway.
KrakatoaKrakatoa1,000+ posts
So many colleges fit your criteria, at all levels....with online apps nowadays usually costing nothing, why not apply to 5-6+ and see what happens, get in touch with the coaches, etc....

Emory, Davidson, Trinity, St. John's, etc etc etc; I mean the list is potentially HUGE...at the better programs across all of the divisions you'll find plenty of 6'++ big boys who can mash, run, gun, and glove with the best of them.

Broaden your horizons, spend a few hours searching various school sites, rosters, coaching backgrounds......there are some real gems out there.

Best of luck to you!!
Last edited by Krakatoa
B btbballfannumber1100+ posts
krakatoa gives some good advice.

why not apply and see what happens?

getting some applications in now can be "huge" in giving a sense of a safety net. apply to some schools where you know he can play and some schools where he might not compete in collegiate ball. if he's got the academic stats, be sure to include the ivies and strong academic schools (all levels d1 and d3). be sure to go ahead and apply for financial aid at all schools because he could be awarded academic merit aid (scholarships) or possibly even a grant. not all financial aid packages are the same and some are more generous than others. the f/a packages usually include scholarships and grants, work study, and loans.

it's not unusual for students with strong academics to apply to at least 8 to 10 schools and even 10 to 14. get going now on those apps!

start now working on a list of safety, match, and reach schools.

he'll be able to review the acceptances and the financial aid packages and the baseball opportunities and make a final decision by the first of May. knowing early on that he is accepted by some colleges really gives a sense of that "safety net" and still allows him to move forward in the recruiting process.

32count - you didn't mention unofficial visits, i don't think. if he can squeeze some in ......that would be good. start with the academic schools that match up with his academic stats (class rank, gpa, SAT and ACT scores). there's a good website........petersons.com........where he can do a search and come up with lists of schools that match his criteria. it's a big help in identifying colleges that are safety, match, and reach for him.
Last edited by btbballfannumber1
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
Originally posted by 32Count:


He has two Ivy's that are seriously interested but we just found out that we don't qualify for financial aid (Darn that promotion in 2005!). We can't afford to send him to an Ivy on our dime without struggle.

Maybe we were too picky. He is a very good student and wanted a top 30 college and a top 50 baseball program (or an Ivy). He really had his heart set on an Ivy but was satisfied with his 'backups' if things didn't work out.
Depending on how big that promotion was, some of the Ivies now charge 10% of annual household income for incomes between 100-250K rather than the regular cost of about 50K.
C 32CountMember
Everyone is giving some really good info. Thanks for every bit of it. We'll definitely take our time, review other opportunities including coaches that previously contacted us, and look into other gems out there. I'll also take a look at other schools and their financial aid policies.

The schools that are interested in my son have been very involved, calling him and us frequently, coming to and talking to us at his games, and visiting the house. It looked good for a while....

We'll definitely take all of this good advise and put it to use.
PU Pop Up Hitter dad1,000+ posts
I too believe we're in the same boat on this subject, except my son blew his grades his junior year. We don't have to worry anymore about D1 tuition. Son has received several responses from large programs that had him on their radar. After seeing his transcripts, he was told he would be a "borderline" candidate and said "Good luck". The phone has stopped ringing too. But after reading this post, there appears to be hope. Maybe that is why son is so laid back about the whole thing. I'm frustrated about the whole process, so many 09s have their commitments already, one seems to think the train has left the station on son. Your son is in a much better position than mine ever though my son is bigger size. With his grades, I would not be so concerned, he will have more options.

I'm taking my hands off the wheel, son will decide and deal with this, after all he has to live with his decisions.
C 32CountMember
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kremer:
From what you describe it sure doesn't seem as if the title of your thread "opportunities evaporating," is very accurate!


Rob, I'm sure a big piece of it is the uncertainty. My kid will have some options, and that is good. It just may not be the options he wants (or that we want for him). It seemed so clear a month ago but boy do things change! I'm very thankful for the options he does have and hopefully looking forward to other options becoming available.

One school is pressing him for an answer and we must respond, probably in the next two weeks- 3 weeks max. The financial implications are huge!

It is good to know that this situation is not altogether uncommon.
C 32CountMember
Also, I appreciate the good advise about keeping the draft out of the equation. The draft really won't be an option for us. Infield08 suggested, from the information he has, that he might go in about the 35 round. That is about the same guess that I had at the earliest. He may not be taken until much later if at all.

The college experience is that he wants and his time there will help him grow and mature.

I was hoping his grades would make him more attractive for some of the top baseball programs since he would qualify for academic money and could be gotten 'cheap' from a baseball scholarship perspective. The 'evaporating' statement stems from the realization that we may have overestimated his opportunities at the top 50 baseball schools. Again, the ones that have shown an interest have been completely honest with us and it doesn't look like its going to happen.

Infield08, I think we're going to take a close look a college loans.
S SnowHillCatcher2410+ posts
32count

As a dad who went through the process last year, I appreciate your situation. We want the best for our kids and as the proverb says, there's "safety in a multitude of counselors". Like you, HSBW membership/contibutors have provided some very valuable information throughout this challenging process of not only undertanding but helping us making the right choice.

The way I handled the process was to provide the details to my son and just watch his thinking patterns. He wanted to make the final decision, and that's what I wanted, too. We can get too involved and drive some coaches crazy, which should be avoided at all costs. Give the coach some room to build a relationship with your son. Let them check each other out, Coaches have a tall task of making choices that contibute to the success of his program.a

I was compelled to look beyond baseball and help him see the "bestfit". Every reputible college baseball recruiter I talked to emphasized the "best fit" concept, rather than playing at the highest level. All our kids want to do that, but there are many roster spots on quality programs all over the country that can provide quality educations and quality baseball experiences.

My son had certain expectations that were quickly derailed, due to numerous reasons. He was determined to go south. The ironry was that he really impressed a northern coach at a southern showcase event. We're from the mid atlantic region and didn't originally look north, but that's where he ended up; not at a high D1 program (whatever that means) but a repectible small D1 with great academics and great coaches. We didn't lose sight of the "best fit" concept, and it worked well for us. Becareful of ratings. A bottom 50 team can beat a top 50 tean on a good day. i've sen it done. There are great ball players at every rating level. Just look at the MLB draft results.

The coach was thrilled to get my son, but even more importantly to me, my son was equally as thrilled to be going where he ended up. The coach never once quaranteed playing time. He was honest and did everything he said he would do, consistently. That was the "acid test" before the decision was made. Now, it's up to my son to put in the effort and hard work to earn a spot in a very competitive environment, and competitive it is!

It sounds like you and your son will do just fine and will have numerous "best fit" opportunities to consider. Be patient and be very proactive. Some great things are ahead for you and your son.

purpleeagledad
G gntwinMember
32Count my son is in a very similar situation (top 500 PG, getting interest from ACC/SEC but not their 1st choice). We have not fully decided yet but we are strongly leaning towards taking a great offer from a CUSA school where he is very much wanted rather than being a 2nd choice at a ACC/SEC school. He will play right away rather trying to work his way up the depth chart. Most importantly he will be valued at the CUSA school and that means a lot to us. Just my two cents.
Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts
I am a big believer in going where you are wanted.

It's great to hear talk about, "everyone has to compete for playing time, there are not guarantees," etc. While all that is true, if a team is telling you you're their fallback plan, I think you thank them for their candor, you take the hint and keep looking.

Most kids are not going pro. Go where you have a realistic shot at playing time. It's a game, and it's more fun to play than to watch. This may be the highest level ball your son ever plays, and it is probably the last competitive baseball he'll ever play. Personally I would hate to see him end up with splinters in his derriere.

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