College Summer League Rosters

This does bring up a question son & I have been pondering, and I thank @PitchingFan for spurring it in my mind.

Summer 18U ball here in Georgia has (over the past 2 years) seemed very competitive with the impact C19 had in recruiting. There's also a college summer league here in Georgia, Sunbelt Baseball League, that has a broad range of players (Vandy to...well, not Vandy).

He would definitely get more game time in the 18U league, just because there's not the same high number of players per team. But it isn't the same level of play as collegiate league. So will higher reps at a lower level outweigh the lower reps at a high level as he approaches his freshman year?

@Senna posted:

This does bring up a question son & I have been pondering, and I thank @PitchingFan for spurring it in my mind.

Summer 18U ball here in Georgia has (over the past 2 years) seemed very competitive with the impact C19 had in recruiting. There's also a college summer league here in Georgia, Sunbelt Baseball League, that has a broad range of players (Vandy to...well, not Vandy).

He would definitely get more game time in the 18U league, just because there's not the same high number of players per team. But it isn't the same level of play as collegiate league. So will higher reps at a lower level outweigh the lower reps at a high level as he approaches his freshman year?

Not sure how low "lower reps" would be or how exactly the competition level compares, but I'll say two things...

You want to show up in the fall healthy, fresh and ready to compete.  So you don't need to or want to play a ton - just enough to be sharp in the fall.  If he can get a fair number of AB's against experienced college arms, he is that much further ahead in mental preparedness.

@old_school posted:

"bugged out on us at the end of the season before the playoffs, costing himself a championship ring."

a kid bugged out and left you...in the small world of college baseball. I have to feel like not getting the ring wouldn't be a major part of the thought process.

A friend’s son was in AAA at the time of this story. He was a rah ray kind of guy.   Heading into the last week of the season he got up on the table to give a rah rah speech. He told the team they were capable of winning the last four and making the playoffs. The team was half AAAA players and former successful MLBers hanging on. They were MLB pennant chase insurance.

One player told him if he wanted a ring to go the freak’n jewelry store. He just wanted to go up or go home. The veterans turned and walked a way. The prospects on the way up were shocked at the attitude.

RJM sometimes we cant see the forest thru the trees

Post high school senior year the best thing most kids can do is get some ball in somewhere and work on getting bigger, faster and stronger.

My son played Legion and worked out. He said compared to 17u travel Legion was batting practice. But he had a great time having one last go round with his high school buddies. They (all previously played 17u travel and headed for college ball) all came back to Legion after graduating and focused on working out. They worked out together and pushed each other.

His travel organization had a 22u team for those seniors who wanted to play. A lot of the team were D3 players.

@Francis7 posted:

We have a local college summer league by us. It's not the Cape. It's not Northwoods. It's not Costal Plain.

In fact, if you look at the rosters over the past few seasons, most kids are D3 or Juco. Some D2s. And, some lower level D1s.  But most of the kids are not D1.

They will let recent HS graduates (rising college freshman) play in the league the summer after HS graduation and before the kid heads to college for the first time in the fall.

BUT, they will only accept the rising freshman if he's playing D1 or he's been recommended by a major league scout.

Is that the craziest thing ever? For a summer league where most of the players are not D1...and the majority are D3 and Juco?

Taking it a step further, the kid going to perennial powerhouse D2 Tampa or Colorado Mesa, can't get into the league without a recommendation from a major league scout. But, the kid playing D1 at lowly St. Peter's or FDU after HS can play in the league just because he wants to play.

The league has been in existence since 1966. So, it's not like they are new to this...

This make sense to anyone?

This rule makes 100% sense to me.  I've seen all-state high schoolers going to top 50 D1 programs as "rising freshmen" fail miserably trying to play in these summer college leagues with established college players.   It was especially noticeable when they were hitting (or better phrased...attempting to hit).   

I'm not sure what this league is, but they have this rule for a reason.   My two cents is that it is a very good rule, and there to protect the confidence of these young men from themselves and their parents.

JMO.

18U summer ball is fine for a kid that just wants to play one last summer with his buddies. But a kid that has committed (and signed a NLI) to play college baseball should play in a college summer league after high school graduation if at all possible - for all the reasons mentioned above, especially the mentions by Cabbagedad. Travel ball orgs sometimes put pressure on their HS senior college commits to stay in their org and play 18U and I think that’s a crappy thing to do as it really doesn’t have the kids’ best interest at heart. But then again, you could say that about many aspects of travel ball.

If it's the ACBL, which I think it is. All it would take would be a call from your son's coach to be placed on a team.

My son's college program is very big on having the kids play in the summer. It seems like the entire roster does it every year. Most of them play in the Maryland College Baseball League, Coastal Plains League, Southern Collegiate Baseball League and the Valley League. But, that is just for kids once they are in school.

I agree with @adbono. Kids who signed a NLI to play college baseball should play in a college summer league after high school graduation if at all possible. It's a great way to show up in the fall coming off reps facing competition near the level you will see at school.

A lot of schools have the kids come in for a short summer school session in early July. Mine played some American legion ball prior to that and saw several college kids on each of those teams. The world changes for all you dads who are waiting to experience this adventure for the first time, and to be honest with you, the powers that be don’t give a rats rear end about what you think once that NLI was signed!lol

I will sort of piggy back off what @adbono said based on my 2021's experience.  I encouraged my son to get into any collegiate league he could last summer to help better prepare him for the fall.  He didn't want to.  He wanted his last summer with his friends, days at the lake, etc.  And how can any parent in good conscience argue a kid isn't entitled to that, right?  In some ways as a parent, it seems right to encourage that sort of thing.

But I can tell you that my son was nowhere near as prepared as he could have been.  Every person and player will look you in the eye and tell you they know college ball will be much harder than anything they've seen.  But for almost everyone, it's much tougher than they figured.  You can't truly know until you get there.  That is, unless you listen very closely to those here on HSBBW.  My son was no different and argued that the disadvantages of not playing in a collegiate league league wouldn't hold him back.  Well, it did.  He's going the Juco route so when he showed up on campus, there were guys already there for 1 and 2 years.  And every one of them had just gotten done playing in a summer collegiate league AFTER they played 1-2 years of Juco ball.  There's no way to not sound boastful in saying this, but my son - a MIF/OF - was his Juco's first 2021 class commitment and 2nd 2021 offer behind a pitcher who declined.  Until an 11th hour addition committed, my son was ranked highest - by quite a bit - by PBR out of their 2021 class.  His metrics were also better than anyone else in his class.  So yeah, embarrassingly, we felt pretty good about his chances.  Not arrogant or entitled, but we felt pretty good.  I felt playing collegiate league ball before getting to campus would be ideal, but that not doing so wouldn't handcuff him at all.  So did my son.

Uh, no.  Looking back, it might have been a difference maker for him.  He did alright in the fall, but where he's about to fit in this spring is very much in question.  The 2nd and 3rd year (thank to Covid) guys are that much more experienced, coached and bigger/stronger/faster.  With all those advantages over incoming freshmen, playing collegiate ball was definitely something within our control to increase the odds.

@adbono is spot on.  There was no grace period for my son or any freshmen.  Nobody says "we'll give the freshmen some time to find their bearings and get up to speed." No way.  If think your son will have a few days of leeway, think again.  Here is an example to help put it into perspective. 1-2 months before freshmen had to report to campus, the coach started having them run back home.  They had an app and had to run certain distances in certain periods of time with verifications going to the coach.  Every player who plays there must test out for a 2-mile run when you get to campus.  It needs to done in under 14 minutes.  They had to report to campus on a Sunday and move in.  The next morning at like 6am, the players are lined up for their first shot at passing the 2-mile run.  15 kids DIDN'T pass it that first day, so about 25 did.  My son was one who didn't pass.  Ran something like 14:20.  My son is fast (6.6ish speed) and was in great shape, but he failed.  And the coach was VERY displeased with ALL who failed it day 1.  You might think it's harsh, but it was black eye/stain for 15 kids. On Day 1. Don't think for one second that coach didn't/doesn't hold it against them.  All but 2 or 3 passed on day 2, but not one of them was praised for passing it day 2.  It wasn't at all a good thing to pass it on the 2nd try.  No pats on the back.  It was simply better than those poor guys who failed it on day 2.  While this doesn't have anything to do with collegiate summer leagues, please know the importance of showing up already "there."  Be ready to compete literally on day 1.  If you're not "there" until after the first 7 days or whatever, good luck.  Because almost everybody else was "there" the moment they showed up on campus.  It's a tough pill to swallow, but be great and be great the day before you step on campus.  It feels like losing game 1 and immediately finding yourself having to play through the loser's bracket. And everyone know how hard that is.  But I'll bet few feel it's possible to fall behind on day 1.  Trust me, it's very possible.

@Francis7 posted:

I agree with @adbono. Kids who signed a NLI to play college baseball should play in a college summer league after high school graduation if at all possible. It's a great way to show up in the fall coming off reps facing competition near the level you will see at school.

Maybe as a position player so they can see college level pitching. But as a pitcher, not so clear IMO. My 2022's college coach is approaching everyone on a case by case basis. 6'1" 150lb kid?...maybe a solid strength program over the summer....

I'm guessing my 2022 will pitch a good amount during the HS year. I don't think he'll commit to play in a summer league. But who knows.

@nycdad - I can see the point with pitchers. The last thing an incoming freshman pitcher wants to tell his new college coach in August is "Sorry. I can't throw this fall because I hurt my arm throwing in a summer league."

@nycdad posted:

Maybe as a position player so they can see college level pitching. But as a pitcher, not so clear IMO. My 2022's college coach is approaching everyone on a case by case basis. 6'1" 150lb kid?...maybe a solid strength program over the summer....

I'm guessing my 2022 will pitch a good amount during the HS year. I don't think he'll commit to play in a summer league. But who knows.

Fair point about pitchers. Sometimes they are coming off a heavy workload in the high school spring season and need to rest and recuperate. But in every other circumstance it would help them to face college level hitters the summer before setting foot on campus. I will echo the post from @DanJ that you better be ready to go from day 1.  It’s hard to do that as a pitcher if you haven’t faced live hitting in 2 or 3 months. Get with the right team and limit pitch count along with regular bullpens and a conditioning program.

@nycdad posted:

Maybe as a position player so they can see college level pitching. But as a pitcher, not so clear IMO. My 2022's college coach is approaching everyone on a case by case basis. 6'1" 150lb kid?...maybe a solid strength program over the summer....

I'm guessing my 2022 will pitch a good amount during the HS year. I don't think he'll commit to play in a summer league. But who knows.

100%!  Son was offered college summer spot, but we said no due to the amount of innings thrown for HS team.  Hung out with legion team buddies summer before freshman year, coaching bases or keeping scorebook.

First weekend his freshman season, he was conference rookie of the week and in the starting rotation the next week.

I say chill out and don’t rush things.  If the kid has the work ethic he’ll be fine.

Francis,

can you imagine Bob Gibson telling his College Coach your statement?

Bob

With all due respect to @CTbballDad, I worry about his advice falling into the wrong hands. And there are LOTS of wrong hands out there.  In his case, his son was freshman of the week after one week and a starter right after that. No one will argue that’s realistic for all but a very select few. That’s tremendous and super early success that almost no one sees. The problem is, most players and parents will look at that and think “yeah, my kid is capable of doing the same thing.” No, they’re not.

I’m no expert, but most collegiate summer rosters I’ve looked at are not small. So I’d argue it wouldn’t be difficult (especially for a recent high school grad) to avoid too many innings on their arms. I couldn’t see too many collegiate summer coaches telling an 18 year old recent HS grad that he absolutely must pitch a ton for him this summer. If that’s the case, you’re a freshman of the week type outlier or that coach did a horrific job of putting his summer roster together if he needs a HIGH SCHOOL kid to carry that much water for him on the mound.

While I could be convinced that a freshman with a solid work ethic will be fine, I’d first want to see what people define as “fine.” Because there are LOTS of freshmen with GREAT work ethics that do not end up fine according to their definition.  I look at work ethic as college baseball 101 for anyone who simply wants an opportunity to possibly see the field ever. Great work ethic can be seen across all decent or better programs that never results in playing time let alone starting. If I were coaching and you had subpar work ethic, get packing. Then I’d go ask the remaining players who can show me something much more than just strong work ethic. I’m in management always tell my people that today it’s no longer enough to just work hard and expect to get ahead. The expectation is that everyone works hard. Out of those people, I’ll take the ones that also work just as SMART. Just because you’re sweaty doesn’t mean you’ll ever play.

The parental Echo chamber that this topic has become is amazing, to some degree the whole site can be that way I guess. There are about 1000 variables that go into college experience. The focus on the player work ethic is important but over blown, the massive impact on first impression is valid but also overstated, any coach basing roster decisions on a 2 mile run is a dumbass and you are going to have more concerning problems with him in the future so don't get to excited you can be pretty certain of that.

Get in shape, get strong, get humble...most of them don't understand what even means. It isn't their fault, they are 18 and have been hugely successful for most of the their lives...they will learn soon enough. Come in listening and observing not talking!! 

The key is learning to adapt to new program, new leadership, new expectations sooner rather then later. if they do this they will be fine, if they continue down the i have all the answers plan they are going to get their teeth kicked in. 50 games in which you will probably play 25 in some summer league the season before college is going to do nothing to change the talent that your son has. for some it may accelerate the learning curve but i would expect to most it will be nothing or be negative.

Spend the summer mentally and physically preparing for new life steps, responsibilities and challenges. The rest of it is just noise.

I had read all the advice about what to do the summer before college, my son was going to play in a collegiate league.  The day before he was supposed to leave, he was diagnosed with mono.  No physical activity for 6 weeks, then he just played with a very low-level travel team (mostly kids not playing in college, no challenge there) for a few weeks, and started working out again.  Based on what I had read here, I was very worried that he would be way behind when he got to college.  He was fine.  Old_school is right, there are 1000 things that go into college baseball success, everyone's journey is different, no one choice is going to be the defining factor.  First, enjoy the senior year of HS baseball.

What a player should do the summer after his senior year in HS is dependent on a number of things. A pitcher that throws a lot of innings in the HS spring season won’t have the same needs as a kid that had limited mound time. A position player might need time to heal from an injury. Another might need as many at bats as possible. So there is no “one fits all” answer. But there are a couple of aspects that haven’t been discussed. One is the mental aspect of playing college baseball - and hardly any HS senior really knows what that is all about. Therefore it is helpful to spend time around college players before arriving on campus to observe the difference in attitude and work ethic displayed by college players vs the HS grab ass that they are accustomed to. Another difference maker is the type of college program that a HS player is reporting to. You can afford to be a little more cavalier about your preparation at most D3 programs than you can at most D1 programs. However, if you are advancing to a competitive program, that competes for championships, you best put your best foot forward on day one regardless of what number follows the D.