Collisions at the Plate....is it time to change the rules?

I think it's a good idea to ban intentional collisions. We wouldn't tolerate them at other bases so home plate should be no different.

Exceptions should include:

1. When the catcher goes up the line to get a bad throw and they collide.

2. When the catcher provides no lane or area for the runner to get to home plate

I'm all for it.  This day in age, I think it's a no brainer.

BaseballByTheYard.com

I see no reason for MLB/MiLB not to adopt a malicious contact rule akin to NFHS or NCAA.

As a fan, I like the excitement of a close play at the plate with the contact.

If I were an owner or player, I would support a collision rule. Who needs another Buster Posey. It does the fans and ownership no good for him to miss a season. Fosse basically had his career end in an All Star Game by Pete Rose.

Exciting yes, good for the game, probably not.

The typical home plate collision involves a runner with no protective equipment charging full speed into another player who is wearing protective equipment designed for another purpose.  One player is hell bent on applying maximum force; the other player may or may not have a split second to brace for contact as he catches the ball and applies the tag.  Neither player has trained or practiced to execute this play "correctly" or "safely."  What could possibly go wrong?

The typical home plate collision, if it occurred in an NFL game, would draw a flag for hitting a defenseless receiver and a fine or suspension would likely be handed down by the commissioner's office.  They don't let football players, whose equipment and practice better prepare them for such events, do it to each other, but we let baseball players do it.  

Also, I suppose we should clarify the terminology.  A collision refers to contact between two moving objects.  When one object is more or less stationary, we usually just say it got rammed or plowed or run over.  The term "home plate collision" obscures the unequal risk to the two players.

I got run over my senior year in high school and I was in a similar position as Posey with my knees on the ground.  I gave the guy a path to the plate and I was trying to block / catch a low throw and ended up on my knees.  He knocked the s%^t out of me and did something to my hip.  I was able to finish the game but that night couldn't walk.  To this day 20 some years later it still hurts.

I don't think MLB / professional baseball needs to go the route of high school / fed rules but something needs to be done.

As the father of a catcher and a SF Giants fan, I would like to see some rules about collisions. If you watch the video of the Cousins/ Posey play you will see that Cousins had a lane to get to the plate but chose to blow up Posey.

There are now rules on the other bases, why not something at home plate.

I think that Cousins was looking for his 15 minutes of fame.

BTW, he suffered injuries from the collision as well.

IMO, the starting catcher is SO important to the game, losing him for a season is really bad news.

Note to all:

I had to go in and prune this thread to eliminate a bunch of content which was not on topic. In the process, some content which was on topic had to be eliminated - for which I apologize. Now that it is cleaned up, please try to stay on topic.

Thanks

08

I fully support a no collision rule in the MLB. I expect purists scoffed at catchers wearing protective gear back in the day, or batting helmets for that matter. My son is a 14 YO catcher. He's, thankfully, never been "blown up" at the plate and I hope he never does!

Uuuuummmm...am I reading this right ?  

"Prune"....?

"Stay on topic"...?????

Are you freakin' kidding me?....PRUNE?

Yea I don't get this...just because people disagree and argue back and forth does not mean posts should be removed.  We're all adults here.  It's not like they were arguing about who makes a better steak or cussing/making personal attacks.  Let 'em play.

WraggArm and James G,

I believe the posts that 08Dad removed started with exactly what James mentioned:

"making personal attacks".

One post that I saw which was removed was a personal insult against a member, by a member who has been moderated on this site many, many times for personal attacks.

Sometimes when such posts are removed, it also makes sense to remove the responses to the insults/personal attacks.  Those responses are "off topic" not thru any fault of the responding poster, but because they were responding to an off topic, "out of bounds" poster.

I trust 08Dad's judgment and I am confident that he removed posts which are against the forum rules, and then simply cleaned up the leftovers.  We do not have any problem with debate or disagreement, honest!

Julie

Wragg/James:

OK perhaps I spent too much time in the yard this weekend getting trees ready for spring - and therefore prune was the word that came to mind.  

I deleted a number of posts which were making personal attacks. Once those posts were deleted, some of the remaining posts didn't make any sense - so I cleaned those up too.

It's a lot easier as a moderator to delete the whole thread - but I tried to preserve what was valuable in this topic rather than taking the easy way out... 

I am not for players getting hurt by any means, but I think most of the time the catcher puts himself in that position.  Sure, if the catcher is standing there blocking the path to the plate in anticipation of the ball coming, then he is in a defenseless position.  But he doesn't have to be there.  He can move 2 feet in towards the infield and only move in front of the plate once he secures the ball.  You don't see a SS or 3rd baseman trying to block the bag on a throw from the outfield.  You see them standing to the side of the bag awaiting the throw ready to make a swipe tag once he receives the ball.  Maybe the rule should be changed in regard to where the catcher should be prior to receiving the ball.  If he is at any time blocking the path to the plate prior to receiving the ball, it's interference and the runner is automatically safe.  If a catcher doesn't want to get defenslessly run over, don't get down on your knees in the basepath, blocking the plate before you have the ball. 

I'm not trying to be mean about it, just saying, there are also things the catchers could do to prevent this from happening.

You mean like this?:

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7621457

Teixeira had the whole path clear and hit Bobby Wilson on the first-base side of the plate...

That one was borderline, but to be honest, it looked to me like just before Teixeira got to the plate, the catcher tried to move in and block the plate.  The announcers even mentioned that.  At the last second, Tex put his shoulder down because the catcher moved in the path of the plate.  It looked to me like Teixeira was just going to run by until the catcher stepped in - before he had the ball.  It looked to me like Teixeira was in a vulnerable position as well.  He hit the catcher sort of awkwardly and could have been hurt.  I don't think he was prepared to slide and was almost more protecting himself.  Others could see it differently.

To your earlier post -

"Maybe the rule should be changed in regard to where the catcher should be prior to receiving the ball.  If he is at any time blocking the path to the plate prior to receiving the ball, it's interference and the runner is automatically safe.  If a catcher doesn't want to get defenslessly run over, don't get down on your knees in the basepath, blocking the plate before you have the ball."

He did exactly as you suggested.  The catcher was on the first base side of the plate.  He stepped in to catch a low throw as the ball arrived, still on the first base side and never in the basepath.  Teixeira never had an intention to slide - if he did he would have already slid across the plate completely unimpeded.  Instead he came across the plate and hit the catcher on the first base side.  So what, exactly, is your suggestion for the catcher?

The way I saw it, the catcher came across the plate, although behind it.  He was in Tex's running lane.  Yes, he started up the first baseline, but then came across the plate.  Tex made a last second decision to go shoulder down.  I think he intended to just run across the plate until the catcher backed up to the plate.  Watch it again.  The catcher starts up the line and then backs into the plate.

So you and I see this differently.  That's ok.  To me, this video is a good example why the rules can't be changed to allow situational collisions (ie, allowed under certain circumstances such as your example).  There's just to many ways to interpret all the moving parts.  They either have to let the rule stand, or disallow completely and treat home plate as any other base.  I'm in favor of eliminating collisions for safety reasons, and I just don't see the value.  It's just an odd artifact from a different time and out of context with the rest of the game.

Prune?  Several good posts relating to concerns with player safety which contained no personal attacks were deleted.  This isn't pruning.  This is butchering.

I am a Giants fan and I believe what happened to Posey was unneccesary, and could have been avoided, but completely legal.  I think it is impossible to take collisions at home plate out of the game.  However, I have actually thougt that they could create some sort of chalk line that is in essence a collision line.  If the catcher does not cross that line you must slide.  If the catcher is on the other side of that collision line then he is fair game.

Impossible?  Why would this be impossible?  A rule change could make plays at the plate like any other base.  What's impossible about that?

I think it is impossible for the following reasons.

1)Even in high school a player can run through a catcher if he is up the line without the ball.  However, and I see this every year, catcher's go up the line without the ball and the umpires find fault with the runner not trying avoid, or they are called out because they try to avoid the catcher and the umpire does nothing about it.  Now you are moving this same thought process to an industry with elite speed and athletes.  This will put more stress onto the home plate umpires to try to figure this all out in a split second.  This will lead to many disgruntled managers, players, and coaches.

2.  If MLB can not even exercise enough common sense to install instant replay in when the technology is there then they can not, IMO, exercise enough common sense to figure out the plays at the plate.

Is it impossible, No.  I just think there are to many issues involved that will lead to a rule change.

have you been watching the WBC

I have to wonder, do non-MLB catchers ever try to make a baserunner clearly intent on "blowing him up" eat a faceful of mitt, forcibly? I'd have to think the temptation would be there, if they have time to do it. Just another potential reason for getting rid of (semi)intentional homeplate collisions.

No, they can't.

if you watch the first video there is no where for the runner to go, if he slides its an easy out.  Does he jump the catcher?  Sounds more dangerous to me.  why is the catcher allowed to completely take the plate away and expect not to Get trucked?  The entire play needs review not just the running over part.

I don't know where you see high school ball, but in the US, this is prohibited by rule.

I just don't know how one guy running full speed without protection, running into another guy with protective gear for the purposes of scoring a single run in a baseball game is worthy of risking either player's careers.

I'm just a guy, so if they keep doing it, I'll keep watching it but I simply don't see where the concussion, broken bone, day off recovery required, etc. risk offsets the benefit of dropped balls by the catcher and run scored by a player who should've been held at third in the first place.  

Just me, but the risk reward doesn't seem to be there.

When the runner comes in and tries to knock the ball out, OK but the full on collision is just stupid.

Because the defense made the play and the offense didn't? Sometimes, when you're out, you're out.

No your not out until your tagged.  don't get me wrong I'm all for safety but if he is blocking the plate I like the rule as is.  If you don't want to get run over stay out of the baseline without the ball.

Watch it again. If the runner slides, there's no issue. But he instead chose to take out the catcher. The catcher never once blocked the plate in that video.