I always find it humorous when people say go juco, you will play like there aren't a ton of kids riding the pine in juco as well! Here is the deal go where you are loved regardless of division that's where you will be given the best opportunity to succeed and that is still just opportunity!
Catchdad44 posted:I always find it humorous when people say go juco, you will play like there aren't a ton of kids riding the pine in juco as well! Here is the deal go where you are loved regardless of division that's where you will be given the best opportunity to succeed and that is still just opportunity!
I'm not sure whose posts you are reading. I don't think its been suggested that the JUCO route is easy - it is very competitive. The fact is that there are a ton of kids that want to play college baseball and the overwhelming majority of them are not ready (for a number of reasons) to secure playing time at any 4 year program as freshmen (or sophomores). And you are not getting better if you are not playing. This is especially true for position players. IMO JUCO is a practical alternative that more players should consider. I always find it amusing when people dismiss JUCO as something that their kid is too good for. Your last sentence is 1000% correct.
adbono posted:Catchdad44 posted:I always find it humorous when people say go juco, you will play like there aren't a ton of kids riding the pine in juco as well! Here is the deal go where you are loved regardless of division that's where you will be given the best opportunity to succeed and that is still just opportunity!
I'm not sure whose posts you are reading. I don't think its been suggested that the JUCO route is easy - it is very competitive. The fact is that there are a ton of kids that want to play college baseball and the overwhelming majority of them are not ready (for a number of reasons) to secure playing time at any 4 year program as freshmen (or sophomores). And you are not getting better if you are not playing. This is especially true for position players. IMO JUCO is a practical alternative that more players should consider. I always find it amusing when people dismiss JUCO as something that their kid is too good for. Your last sentence is 1000% correct.
I think we are in agreement, I just didn't explain myself! JUCO is a great alternative to a four year if that's who is recruiting you but don't expect the competition to be any less difficult. My main point being go where you are recruited, talk to the coaches about where you and your skill set fit in the program that's where you belong regardless of division and then it still doesn't work out sometimes!
Catchdad44 posted:adbono posted:Catchdad44 posted:I always find it humorous when people say go juco, you will play like there aren't a ton of kids riding the pine in juco as well! Here is the deal go where you are loved regardless of division that's where you will be given the best opportunity to succeed and that is still just opportunity!
I'm not sure whose posts you are reading. I don't think its been suggested that the JUCO route is easy - it is very competitive. The fact is that there are a ton of kids that want to play college baseball and the overwhelming majority of them are not ready (for a number of reasons) to secure playing time at any 4 year program as freshmen (or sophomores). And you are not getting better if you are not playing. This is especially true for position players. IMO JUCO is a practical alternative that more players should consider. I always find it amusing when people dismiss JUCO as something that their kid is too good for. Your last sentence is 1000% correct.
I think we are in agreement, I just didn't explain myself! JUCO is a great alternative to a four year if that's who is recruiting you but don't expect the competition to be any less difficult. My main point being go where you are recruited, talk to the coaches about where you and your skill set fit in the program that's where you belong regardless of division and then it still doesn't work out sometimes!
We are in complete agreement!
I would also add to to the discussion that DII and DIII are becoming more and more competitive as the over-commitment issue continues. I spoke with a RC/Asst Coach at a prominent DII school in So Cal this past week and he told me he is already getting calls from several power 5 D1's in the west asking if they would take players that aren't going to make their roster after the fall season. This coach said it is happening more and more every year.
Then you have talented players that go to these power 5 schools that over commit thinking they will sit their freshman year, get experience and play the next two years. Then, low and behold they end up becoming practice players because the next recruiting class the following two years are also over committed and they have two studs in each of those classes that play their position as well. Its a vicious cycle that becomes extremely demoralizing for some.
I asked the head coach of this DII school what is the one big difference that his transfers from big D1 schools say about playing at a DII? He said, "Certainly not the skill level or quality of play. Most of the guys in DII can play D1. The players all say its how the coaching staff treats them. They care about the players on and off the field much more. Its much more stressful from a job security standpoint for a D1 coach. Winning is essential and players (pitchers definitely) are on a much shorter leash."
My son is a low D1 (at best) player and has offers at every level (called "spots" at D3's??). He is also a "dirtbag"/gym rat. He wants to be on the field all the time. He realizes now he may not get that opportunity at a D1 and does not want to constantly look over his shoulder year after year to see what new stud is coming to take his spot. I think the discussion with these coaches helped him make his decision easier.
2019cubdad posted:I would also add to to the discussion that DII and DIII are becoming more and more competitive as the over-commitment issue continues. I spoke with a RC/Asst Coach at a prominent DII school in So Cal this past week and he told me he is already getting calls from several power 5 D1's in the west asking if they would take players that aren't going to make their roster after the fall season. This coach said it is happening more and more every year.
Then you have talented players that go to these power 5 schools that over commit thinking they will sit their freshman year, get experience and play the next two years. Then, low and behold they end up becoming practice players because the next recruiting class the following two years are also over committed and they have two studs in each of those classes that play their position as well. Its a vicious cycle that becomes extremely demoralizing for some.
I asked the head coach of this DII school what is the one big difference that his transfers from big D1 schools say about playing at a DII? He said, "Certainly not the skill level or quality of play. Most of the guys in DII can play D1. The players all say its how the coaching staff treats them. They care about the players on and off the field much more. Its much more stressful from a job security standpoint for a D1 coach. Winning is essential and players (pitchers definitely) are on a much shorter leash."
My son is a low D1 (at best) player and has offers at every level (called "spots" at D3's??). He is also a "dirtbag"/gym rat. He wants to be on the field all the time. He realizes now he may not get that opportunity at a D1 and does not want to constantly look over his shoulder year after year to see what new stud is coming to take his spot. I think the discussion with these coaches helped him make his decision easier.
I hadn't really heard of the practice of D1 coaches contacting other schools to see if they had spots for overcommits, but that sure is interesting and makes some sense.
Can't speak to the west, but in the southeast - D2 and Juco ball is on par with D1. A couple of years ago I ran into a pitcher who left Louisville for fear of not getting reps to come to a Peach Belt conference school (D2). He told me that he thought he was going to come down and dominate the conference. Once he got here, he said he would have had better chances to become a regular pitcher if he had stayed at Louisville. He said he had no idea how thick the talent was in the southeast.
If you want to play competitive ball, the opportunities are there.
a few thoughts.... i agree there are plenty of d2 guys that could play D1 ball. but thats a broad stroke. all this P5 stuff is kinda non sense. without trying to offend, in baseball theres the SEC and then there are a handful in the ACC and PAC12 but honestly the Big 10 and Big 12 are not there . also as far as players getting caught up in the over committing thing, you have to as a player know if you are in the first round of recruiting or the second round of if ypu are filling out the roster. usually you can tell based on scholarship what they really think of you. you cannot go into it thinking that you will sit as a freshman, you have to be honest and say, can i play as a freshman if not dont go there .
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bacdorslider posted:, you have to be honest and say, can i play as a freshman if not dont go there .
Bingo
bacdorslider posted:a few thoughts.... i agree there are plenty of d2 guys that could play D1 ball. but thats a broad stroke. all this P5 stuff is kinda non sense. without trying to offend, in baseball theres the SEC and then there are a handful in the ACC and PAC12 but honestly the Big 10 and Big 12 are not there . also as far as players getting caught up in the over committing thing, you have to as a player know if you are in the first round of recruiting or the second round of if ypu are filling out the roster. usually you can tell based on scholarship what they really think of you. you cannot go into it thinking that you will sit as a freshman, you have to be honest and say, can i play as a freshman if not dont go there .
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Just look at Perfect Game 2019 Commits. Oklahoma, Wichita State, Michigan, etc. I can name more. They are all over committed. Iowa may even be this year. Seniors are coming back unexpectedly. As far as free agents, look at who the reps are signing. They are not signing guys that sat on the bench for D1s for three years. They want guys that played and played at a high level at d2, NAIA or D1.
Its become a huge problem. My son's high school team has 9 D1 commits this season and three of them won't start this year.
D1 over committing will continue until players stop doing it. i have spoken to many many people in pro baseball ... while a lot of D1 players get drafted, teams are looking for skills that translate to pro ball. ypu can be in the carribean, mexico, japan, d1 d2 , juco, high school they really do not care
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bacdorslider posted:a few thoughts.... i agree there are plenty of d2 guys that could play D1 ball. but thats a broad stroke. all this P5 stuff is kinda non sense. without trying to offend, in baseball theres the SEC and then there are a handful in the ACC and PAC12 but honestly the Big 10 and Big 12 are not there . also as far as players getting caught up in the over committing thing, you have to as a player know if you are in the first round of recruiting or the second round of if ypu are filling out the roster. usually you can tell based on scholarship what they really think of you. you cannot go into it thinking that you will sit as a freshman, you have to be honest and say, can i play as a freshman if not dont go there .
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Texas, Texas Tech and TCU might disagree...
2019cubdad posted:bacdorslider posted:a few thoughts.... i agree there are plenty of d2 guys that could play D1 ball. but thats a broad stroke. all this P5 stuff is kinda non sense. without trying to offend, in baseball theres the SEC and then there are a handful in the ACC and PAC12 but honestly the Big 10 and Big 12 are not there . also as far as players getting caught up in the over committing thing, you have to as a player know if you are in the first round of recruiting or the second round of if ypu are filling out the roster. usually you can tell based on scholarship what they really think of you. you cannot go into it thinking that you will sit as a freshman, you have to be honest and say, can i play as a freshman if not dont go there .
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>Just look at Perfect Game 2019 Commits. Oklahoma, Wichita State, Michigan, etc. I can name more. They are all over committed. Iowa may even be this year. Seniors are coming back unexpectedly. As far as free agents, look at who the reps are signing. They are not signing guys that sat on the bench for D1s for three years. They want guys that played and played at a high level at d2, NAIA or D1.
Its become a huge problem. My son's high school team has 9 D1 commits this season and three of them won't start this year.
2019cubdad,
I think you are misunderstanding bacdorslider. There are plenty of D1 schools overcommitting players because coaches' jobs depend on it. But P5 is not relevant in baseball, not the way it is football and basketball. You can look at the stadiums, the attendance to games, and most specifically the coaches salaries as indicators. Players are willing to overcommit, drop their commitments to other D1s, etc to play for an SEC team. They don't care that Arkansas has committed 80 players in the last 4 years.
So it is SEC first, then ACC (top 2/3) and PAC (again top 2/3), but the Big10 and Big12 don't have the same extent interest level of the fan base, the stadiums, and coaches salaries just are not there with isolated schools being the exception. So kids overcommitting to these other P5 schools might be better served to consider offers from other conferences like the Southern Conference, the American Athletic conference, Sun Belt, Conference USA, and Atlantic Sun which have equal or deeper overall baseball talent than the Big 10, Big 12. There are programs like Mercer, Coastal Carloina, Cental Florida, South Florida, Rice, etc (just naming a few, these conferences are really deep) that have superior programs by comparison to what you see in most of Big 10 and Big 12. Mercer has dominated both ACC and SEC opponents over the past decade. Georgia stopped playing Mercer last year, because they were 1-7 against Mercer the previous 4 years. Coastal Carolina won the CWS as a member of the SoCon two years ago, and is now in the Sun Belt. Heck, in the tiny population state of South Carolina, USC and Clemson struggle with in state rivalries with schools like Coastal, Furman, College of Charleston, USC Upstate, an Charleston Southern more than thy do with in-conference opponents.
It pains me to say it, but anyone of those 'mid major' programs has more talent in any given year than my home state OSU Buckeyes do. So talking P5 in baseball, just is not the same as NCAAF.
Bacdorslider is right in his next post; it won't change unless the athletes and their parents stop overcommitting.
baseballhs posted:bacdorslider posted:a few thoughts.... i agree there are plenty of d2 guys that could play D1 ball. but thats a broad stroke. all this P5 stuff is kinda non sense. without trying to offend, in baseball theres the SEC and then there are a handful in the ACC and PAC12 but honestly the Big 10 and Big 12 are not there . also as far as players getting caught up in the over committing thing, you have to as a player know if you are in the first round of recruiting or the second round of if ypu are filling out the roster. usually you can tell based on scholarship what they really think of you. you cannot go into it thinking that you will sit as a freshman, you have to be honest and say, can i play as a freshman if not dont go there .
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>Texas, Texas Tech and TCU might disagree...
I agree. Not the first time you have shortchanged the Big 12 in your posts.
When the NCAA capped DI rosters at a maximum of 35 players in 2007, they opened an unintended "can of worms." At least, I hope it was unintended.
Prior to 2007, there had always been a certain number of players who might have been at the margin for DI programs; but, who for a host of reasons individual to them, would decide to stay at their chosen school. As a result, it wasn't unusual to see DI rosters number in the 36-45 range.
Players and coaches involved understood that playing time for them would likely be limited, and that was generally okay with those involved. There was much less gnashing of teeth over "over recruiting" in that environment because there was no hard-and-fast edict to deal with; limiting the roster to 35 players.
Introduce the 35-man limit and, suddenly, coaches are faced with the prospect of trying to recruit to exactly that number if they want to avoid the anguish of cutting and transferring; and the vast majority do want to avoid that. Unfortunately, there are a host of uncontrollable factors that make the objective almost impossible to attain consistently. When you consider the vagaries of the draft on both the incoming 18-year-olds and the returning 21-year-olds, the inevitable injuries and subsequent recovery periods, the toll of academic and disciplinary washouts, and a host of personal reasons for players' decisions to transfer or quit, coaches are recruiting to, at best. an imprecise estimate of their final needs.
Add to this the common belief among coaches that a roster of even a few less than 35 will exponentially increase the prospects of losing games over a 56-game regular season schedule, and you get a natural inclination to err a bit on the high side on the number of commitments accepted.
For all of these reasons, I think the 35-man roster limit was ill advised and ought to be rescinded.
And as for big 12 spending money: https://pistolsfiringblog.com/...tadium-set-for-2020/
Facilities at YCU, I put up against anyone. Texas has nice stuff too. Haven’t seen some of the others. I’ve seen several SEC facilities and I don’t see a big disparity.
baseballhs posted:bacdorslider posted:a few thoughts.... i agree there are plenty of d2 guys that could play D1 ball. but thats a broad stroke. all this P5 stuff is kinda non sense. without trying to offend, in baseball theres the SEC and then there are a handful in the ACC and PAC12 but honestly the Big 10 and Big 12 are not there . also as far as players getting caught up in the over committing thing, you have to as a player know if you are in the first round of recruiting or the second round of if ypu are filling out the roster. usually you can tell based on scholarship what they really think of you. you cannot go into it thinking that you will sit as a freshman, you have to be honest and say, can i play as a freshman if not dont go there .
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>Texas, Texas Tech and TCU might disagree...
You are correct they might..... that's why I said a handful..... My son pitched a TTU so I do kinda feel I have some insight.
I agree the 35 man roster should be rescinded - I think a roster limit of 30 would be better! I would also create a rule where if the schools don't release a player to play somewhere else they can't use the scholarship dollars until he can.
That will slow down the recruiting process, spread out the talent and take "God complex" out of coaching and make the schools really think about the recruits they are bringing instead of just stockpiling talent.
Of course the coaches won't like it, they will have to work harder, be accountable and there will needs on both program and player sides to find the right fit and get along. if a 65 game season is to much for 30 players cut it back.
adbono posted:baseballhs posted:bacdorslider posted:a few thoughts.... i agree there are plenty of d2 guys that could play D1 ball. but thats a broad stroke. all this P5 stuff is kinda non sense. without trying to offend, in baseball theres the SEC and then there are a handful in the ACC and PAC12 but honestly the Big 10 and Big 12 are not there . also as far as players getting caught up in the over committing thing, you have to as a player know if you are in the first round of recruiting or the second round of if ypu are filling out the roster. usually you can tell based on scholarship what they really think of you. you cannot go into it thinking that you will sit as a freshman, you have to be honest and say, can i play as a freshman if not dont go there .
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>Texas, Texas Tech and TCU might disagree...
I agree. Not the first time you have shortchanged the Big 12 in your posts.
Well , if you can convince me otherwise... OSU scrimmaged VU last week it was not close..... of course Texas, TCU and Tech are quality programs but hardly , Georgia , VU, Miss St. Ark, South Carolina, Florida, LSU, Mizzo, it is what it is
Let's stop playing college baseball in the Winter and see what happens in recruiting! I biggest home court advantage in college sports!
We can all agree that the SEC has been the strongest conference recently. In fact, based on the 21st century rate of CWS titles, in another three or four hundred years it should catch the PAC 12 in overall number of CWS titles:
PAC 12: 28 CWS titles overall, 5 so far this century
SEC: 11 CWS titles overall, 6 so far this century