Contact from coaches - Come to our workout. $$$ or not?

Be advised that "workouts" are only permitted at Division II programs and only out of the HS baseball season

I am facing a very similar dilema.

Some peaple here believe that camps are nothing but money makers for coaches. That may be true, but there are still good reasons to go.

Lets say a coach has seen my son play and has been corresponding with him/us and we are very interesting in the program. If we havn't seen the campus yet and coach invites us to a camp, we would go. We would get a feel for the campus, a feel for coach the etc... Kinda kill 2 birds.

My son has been recieving a lot of camp invites in response to our initial letters. We might go to ONE, and that's because we want to see the campus, meet the coach, its only 60.00 AND they send you a written evaluation of your performance.

quote:

they make you feel like if you don't go, they will write you off if you don't attend.

Old timers correct me if I'm wrong, but if a coach is truly interested in a prospect, he is not going to write you off over a lousy 100.00!

TR I sent you a PM

An official visit at a DI involves NCAA paperwork that is sent to you. And involves an overnight stay.

quote:

Old timers correct me if I'm wrong, but if a coach is truly interested in a prospect, he is not going to write you off over a lousy 100.00!

I'm not an old-timer yet but here is my 2 cents worth.

I don't think that not spending the $100 is going to keep a school from looking at your son if they are truly interested. Even if you decide not to attend I would have your son take the time to send the coach a thank you note/email if declining the invitation. We also found this to be a good opportunity to include his upcoming schedule to let the schools know where my son would be playing. I figured if they really were interested in him we were letting them know where he was going to be, if they only wanted the money we didn't lose anything.


That being said I do think going to a prospect camp at a school that your son is really interested in is one of the best uses of your money. While your son obviously gets a chance to show what he can do on the field, you also get the bonus of touring the campus, baseball facilities and meet the coaches.

Thanks for that TR. I did not know that.

Even so...these schools have been given his schedule and specific dates of when he would be playing. Showcase dates too.

Some said they would be there. Turns out they never came out to see him.

I realize these coaches can't be everywhere. I understand that. But why tell a kid you are coming out to see him, then don't even show up? Then they want us to go to them.

I'm sure a couple hundred bucks to a college doesn't impact them nearly as much as it does us.

All us 08 Dads are in the same boat. It is frustrating and overwhelming with what all is out there to take in.

My son and I decided to pick out the certain showcases that would have a lot of college scouts and go do his thing there. If he drew any interest, then it would happen through a call or letter. So far, this has been the case and it has paid off. No offers mind you, but some interest. We are attending a good one this weekend as well.

With that being said, the one thing that my son and I have hung on to this entire summer and going forward is that we believe God has a plan for his life (baseball or not) and He in His own time will eventually roll out that plan at the precise time. Knowing this has certainly taken a lot of anxiety and stress off my son (and me too!) The first showcase this summer he ended up developing a sore shoulder right in the middle of the showcase! When it was over he looked over at me and said, "Dad, God sure had a way of making sure these schools didn't want me, huh?" I just smiled.

I have found that through all this my son has reacted to all this by how I have handled it. (If he could only see me driving down the road praying!) lol

God bless all you Dads, Moms, and sons during this time!

Very well said YoungGunDad!

In that same vein, for any parent of an '08 going through the maddening process right now I HIGHLY recommend reading Tony Dungy's book, "Quiet Strength."

His story is a vivid illustration of how to allow God's plan for your life unfold and how that often times means taking the road that appears at the time to be the least logical route. This book has helped me see things more clearly and remain calm in the middle of this storm called recruiting.

With the last 2 posts I thought I was in the Ladies Forum. What inspiring, touching sentiments from dads. Very thoughtful and perfectly timed for us '08 parents. Thank you for sharing these thoughts.

Amen. No reason to go through it alone. Hang in.

Rob,

TR is correct as far as NCAA schools are concerned......on campus tryouts/workouts only for DII, none allowed for DI or DIII.

But NAIA schools and JUCOs can work kids out, too.

quote:

by younggundad: God has a plan for his life (baseball or not) and He in His own time will eventually roll out that plan ... first showcase this summer he ended up developing a sore shoulder right in the middle of the showcase! (son) looked over at me and said, "Dad, God sure had a way of making sure these schools didn't want me, huh?" I just smiled.

that's certainly a great view, however IF those schools were in God's plan, son needs to help God out a bit by being in shape and warming up properly.

quote:

It is frustrating and overwhelming with what all is out there to take in.

It is, ain't it?

Hold on, Natural......

When you're on the roller coaster, the ride is in control....................

RobV, let me get this straight. You don't want to spend a hundred bucks plus some incidental expense to send your kid to a camp at a college he'd like to attend, but you hope that same school might be willing to spend thousands of dollars on your son's education there? I apologize if I don't quite get that line of thinking.

In this day and age, the competition for college baseball roster spots can be difficult. There are many outstanding players out there who can play at high levels that your son will be competing against, not only for a spot in the lineup or on the roster, but simply for ATTENTION. Unless your son is one of the truly elite players in his region, and those are still few and far between, you need to go through the necessary steps to put your son in situations where he can be evaluated by the coaches who are going to make decisions about spending their employer's money (i.e, the university) to educate your son. If you're surprised that they indicated they'd try to come to a game and didn't show, don't be surprised to see it happen again. That is common as these coaches have many potential prospects to evaluate and a limited amount of time to do it. This is why we take our summer teams to the tournaments that tend to draw these coaches, so that our boys can be seen in venues playing against quality competition where coaches can effectively use their time and money to get the biggest return on their efforts.

I sense that you're looking at this situation solely from your own perspective, without giving much thought to their perspective. If you spend some time pondering the other sides motivations, you'll probably have a more pleasant experience going forward. I don't mean to sound like I'm picking on you, but you simply need to think more globally and you'll understand whats going on. Finally, feel free to PM me if you'd like some specific help with your son's situation. I have experience with about three dozen of my former summer players going on to play in college at various levels, so I may be able to help you a bit with some ways to get your son noticed.

One of our pitchers was seen by a Division I school this past week in our tournament---the school is one high on his wish list---he was invited to their camp this weekend ---he is there as I post this

quote:

All us 08 Dads are in the same boat

...and even some of us 08 moms too.

I had never heard of hs players being asked to work out with college teams until this week,...both personally and by others on the HSBBW.
Its free,..and its a chance to play baseball,...sounds like a nice combination.

It is completely ( IMHO ) up to the individual family to decide if they want to spend the money ( and time ) on a college camp.
My son ( who works to pay for his own camp-s ) goes to learn and work on his game. He has picked up on several new training techniques which he deems to be very valuable. He was also introduced to the mental aspect of the game via a college camp.

If anything else comes out of it ( such as being recruited ), then that is considered an unexpected bonus.

quote:

Originally posted by shortstopmom:
My son ( who works to pay for his own camp-s ) goes to learn and work on his game...

If anything else comes out of it ( such as being recruited ), then that is considered an unexpected bonus.

SSmom,
Great approach and attitude to the questions about whether or not to attend college camps.

The college camps my son attended have been very much worthwhile, both for recruiting and learning. He has learned from some great coaches, played with some outstanding players, and has developed some key recruiting contacts. All of this has helped his confidence tremendously as well.

SN

06Catcherdad sums it pretty good about putting yourself in a position to be seen by college scouts. Over the weekend at the showcase we attended they had a 2 hour Q&A forum on Saturday night for parents and players to ask whatever we wanted. The coaches also offered MUCH information about what they look for, how they recruit, scholarships, etc. They all basically said that today is a new era in recruiting. It use to be back in the day that they only talked to the HS coaches or Legion coaches but they now recruit primarily from summer ball and showcases. This is them saying this, not me. They also admitted it was sad that the HS coach has essentially been removed from the recruiting process.

One college said they used that particular showcase to recruit up to 75% of his players year in and year out.

They ALL said during the forum that these new NCAA regulations have turned the table upside down on them as far as how they recruit. A lot of the D2's and below are going to be awaiting the D1's decisions on players now since the roster size is now 35. They believe it will change the face of recruiting from here on out. It will be a lot of "wait and see" as they put it. So don't get over anxious if you don't see much activity right now. It could be next spring before you even get any calls back.

I don’t like it when the coaching staff of colleges put the player and his parents in the position where they think the camp is necessary to be recruited. Let me say again that being recruited is a process and not an event. If a player has done the necessary things to be seen (showcase and a quality summer team) then the camp becomes almost unimportant. If the parent and the player find themselves depending on a camp for exposure it seems to me they have painted themselves in a corner or ---- are being misled by the coach. So what is the real purpose of college camps? The camp is designed and used to raise money for the baseball program. A coach that says he relies on his camp to recruit players is twisting the truth. That is pure marketing. He promotes the camp as a recruiting tool to bolster camp attendance and increase revenue for the baseball program. It could go without saying that if a talented player showed up at his camp he would be interested. But this only proves that coaches recruit talent ---- not campers! College coaches actively RECRUIT players and use the proven methods of finding players. Put yourself in the coach’s shoes. Coaches cannot afford to take a chance on a quality player not paying $100 to attend their camp. The only times I would recommend a camp is: #1…. When your son wants to have fun, mingle with other players, eat a box lunch, look at a big time college and bring home a camper’s “T” shirt. Or: #2… if the player wants to target a specific college that hasn’t shown any interest in hopes of stirring some interest.

FUNGO

There is also another aspect to this---many colleges use their "camps" to bring in ture prospects that they have interest in so than can work them out one on one legally since it is a camp and not in violation of the rules

TR,
I'm sure that happens but one would think the player would be aware of the situation prior to attending camp. Bringing those players in under the guise of a camp seems to be similar to coaches “telling” incoming freshman to enroll in summer school so they can legally work out in the athletic facilities prior to the fall season.
I don't claim to know how all the college coaches run their camps but the samplings I've had over the years and the conversations I've had with others makes me want to tell "incoming parents" of what I see as some misconception about college camps. Camps are not "bad" but may lead parent to feel as if they are spending their money wisely and being proactive when in reality they may be spinning their wheels and getting nowhere. We need to stay focused and work on our recruiting plan and not fall for everyone else’s marketing scheme.
Fungo

Here is a bit of a different twist on the camp thing. We're finding that the additional exposure afforded by the camp setting (as opposed to a showcase)is generating quite a bit of interest. But here's the twist-- in a number of cases the interest is from the coaches working the camps who are not affiliated with the schools that host them. In a sense, the camps work like mini-showcases (and in many cases are much less expensive)except that fewer coaches get to see a lot more of the player.

FUNGO

What you say is true---but we have found that if a coach is truly interested in one of our players they will call us and ask that he attend the camp---that shows the interest

I think RobV's hesitation is warranted. I'm a newbie at this recruiting stuff, but it seems to me that an email invitation to an 08 to a "Prospect Camp" is indeed more of a money generator than a recruiting tool. Anyone at any skill level can go to these camps if they have the cash. A phone call invitation to a coach, as TRhit mentioned, seems better.

Don't get me wrong - my son loves these camps. I work in academia, so he's gone to summer "Future Prosect" camps, "Prospect Camps" "Premier Showcase Camps" (actually he was signed up for this one at UF, but they canceled it due to the coaching change) etc. at different colleges and universities where I've worked since he was old enough to carry his bat bag. He learns a lot, gets to meet boys from all over the place, gets good coaching, and gets to play baseball all day long. He's a 2011, and this year is starting to stand out a bit and it seems like the coaches are paying a little more attention. Over the next couple of years, we're going to target camps at colleges and universities that he might be interested in, and we see that as one way of marketing him, getting to know coaches and programs, and increasing our chances of finding a good fit. Even if it's not, he learns something, makes some new friends and has fun. It is still very early for us.

You guys know a lot more than I do, so I'll be interested to see how this plays out.

quote:

in a number of cases the interest is from the coaches working the camps who are not affiliated with the schools that host them.

Holden, Often this "interest" is confused with an invite (with some hype) to attend "their" camp ----- of course making the check payable to them. I’m confused about the other coaches. Could you clarify what "other coaches" are working these camps. Are they from the same division and/or the same conference? Seems odd that a coach would invite other coaches to their camps to recruit "their" recruits? --- unless these coaches weren’t really interested in them as recruits but see them as nothing more than revenue???

Tell you a brief story. My son attended a camp at Mississippi State while in high school. He chose to play for Auburn University which is in the same conference (SEC west). He continued to get letters and invites from Ron Polk to attend MSU camps for TWO after he had signed at Auburn. The letters also included the hype about how they had seen him play and how they were interested in him as a player. During those two years he was being invited to the MSU camps, he was a starter at Auburn and had played 2 three game series against Miss State. While the letters looked impressive, my son was nothing more than a name in the computer’s mail-out folder.

Fungo, I don't pretend to answer for Holden C, but in my son's experience at Stanford and Arizona camps there were lots of college coaches working camp who weren't directly affiliated with the host school. I'm pretty sure at Stanford the others had Coaches Marquiss' and Stotz' blessings to pick over the guys Stanford didn't want. Arizona had a handful of JC guys with the same intents.

quote:

A coach that says he relies on his camp to recruit players is twisting the truth.

Fungo, while you seemingly are one of the "oldies" on here, it doesn't necessarily make you an expert just because you speak. Take time to read before posting. First of all, the coach himself said that if no one believed him about recruiting up to 75% of his players to go look at this past year's recruiting on his website for proof. PM me and I will be glad to share you their website.

Secondly, I didn't say this was a camp we attended. It was a showcase, you know, where you have up to sometimes 40+ college and pro scouts in attendance. I agree that college camps do tend to focus on how much moola they can rake in to stipend their perspective programs. However, some DO send invites to players whom they would love to get a second glance at.

I think if you re-read my earlier post you will see that I distinctly mentioned that colleges look their hardest at players who now play summer ball and attend quality showcases.

Fungo,

My son has attended three camps and is scheduled to attend one more. At each camp there were coaches from the host school and several additional coaches from other schools. For example, he attended a four-day camp at UConn. He was in a group coached by an AC from UMaine and the HC from Sacred Heart. He spoke to coaches from at least six other schools while he was there.

The "interest" I mentioned is legit. Not invites to their camps.

As I read the posts it seems that the "process" is a bit different in various sections of the country---I do not think we can generalize---you need to extract what you need from each of the posts you read

YoungGunDad, I do read and had paid particular attention to your post before I responded in my first post. Yours was a very good post, however I did note that you were talking about showcases and not camps. As much as you may dislike what I said, we are on the same page. I too indicate the importance of showcases when I said:

quote:

If a player has done the necessary things to be seen (showcase and a quality summer team) then the camp becomes almost unimportant.

You make reference to how long I've been here and then you indicate that means nothing --- I happen to agree. My many years on the HSBBW only means that I have seen lot of people makes fools of themselves.

Holden Caulfield,
Thanks for the clarification. Things could have changed around here but I had never heard of multiple colleges at one college camp. We did experience something similar to what sizzlepop said in his post. We do have high school and JUCO coaches that travel around to the different D-1's and "work" their camps as instructors. I can't say if these JUCO coaches recruit at these camps because none ever recruited my son. I do know the D-1's have feeder JUCO's and they do "exchange" players so I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

I know a TCU camp/showcase that my son attended also had instructors from UT-Arlington (D1), Oklahoma State (D1), Texas A&M-Kingsville (D2), Northwood (NAIA), and several JUCO's. I guess TCU did not feel "threatened" by the presence of other D1's.

Most of the instructors from the other schools were grad assistants or lower level asst. coaches. These coaches were most likely the ones in need of some extra pocket money.