Control/Blame and Congressional Hearings

Both parents and MLb players are both too blame. Real simple do an Olympic style drug testing, You test positive, suspend without pay for 2 years. No appeals no nothing.

Always great that MLB players tell all the good things they do like MC Guire and then take the 5th admendment.


Notice of players did not say they did not take any performancing enhancing drugs. just no steriods or anything illegal. Can you say creatine

kb,

Interesting perspective. I disagree 100%.

Hooton was right on top of his son's career moves. He admitted that he didn't recognize the symptoms, although now, in hindsight (and after acquainting himself with the subject) he has learned that his son had all of the "classic symptoms" of steroid abuse.

The only "mope" in the room was Mark McGwire.

kb- What level are your two ballplayers?Mine is a "small sized" D1 player and I have been VERY interested at how this issue will play out.

I identified greatly in what those parents had to say about the "suggestions" of coaches, scouts, etc.to thier players about "beefing up".

To say that Mr. Hooton or the Garbaldi's were not paying attention to things in thier households, I feel is way off base. We teach our kids, guide them the best we can, and then they make thier own choices.

Sounded like to me that thier players were dedicated ( maybe to a fault) , showed professional promise or dreams, and thier families were very involved in thier endevors.
I know very FEW top performing players that do not have strong family interaction, these days.

I do hold MLB accountable for contributing to this epidemic for turning a blind eye. To the owners- Bigger players, more power= more ticket dollars.To the players- the same equation = bigger contracts, more records broken, a place in history.These ARE our players heros. And- if they are allowed to "use" to achieve thier fame and fortune, our youth will follow suit.They have chemically rasied the standard of performance so that players either need to "join in or go home."

We have discussed steroids and supplements extensively and repeatedly in our household and with our player. Steroids exist.They are easy to get. They are used in our high schools and colleges. And they are tempting to the smaller ones to keep in the game. Our player decided that steroids were not in his game, but realizes
that as long as they are tolerated, that his baseball days are numbered.

I believe Congress should step in NOW. The steroid issue didn't pop up overnite, it's been tolerated for decades. It has jepordized the integrity of the game.It's cheating.Cheaters get kicked out of the game. Period.

If MLB (and any other sport) adopts a ZERO tolerance policy, it will solve the temptation for our youth.
Let's change the temptation from:
If I don't use, I won't be able to compete at that level, to:
I I use, I'll never play.

I thought Mr. McGuire was sincire. Guilt and embarrassment are reasons to cry. He feels accountable, and he has to go home and look at his babies. Some day they'll want to be just like him. That's a lot of burden to bear.

DRIVEL

Creatine is not a performance enhancing drug--it is a supplement and legal over the counter quite unlike steroids--get your facts straight please

I will say something I said previously--where is Congress when it comes to stopping
the sales of illegal drugs including steroids over the internet--- the mentioned it but shied away from it--to me that is step one if you want to help the HS kids

Well said, stick, you're making some very valid points.

I didn't hear the parents' testimony, but I would think any parent in that dreadful situation is well aware of their own responsibility. They weren't, however, testifying to the committee about their parenting, but how MLB players influenced a choice their son had made --- a choice unknown numbers of young ballplayers are making.

TR, it's a World Wide Web --- how could the US Congress stop the sale of pretty much anything over the 'net? There are sniffer dogs for drugs, and metal detectors for weapons, but how could you police packages arriving from out of the country?

They can only legislate what they can enforce. Zero tolerance is enforcable....(sigh)....as long as the PED can be tested for.

I thought the hearings were quite interesting. I wish Congress would quote facts straight, and kept to the point. We know you are baseball fans, I really don't care that you traded a Mickey Mantle card for a Nellie Fox card. Mark Mcquire was an absolute joke, and is definetly hiding something. I will be forever convinced he used steriods. Do I think he is still a great baseball player, absolutely. I just wish they would admit the truth. If as they say, they want to help clean up baseball, then admit what was going on, help to rid the game of this black eye. As far as the parents go, ease up on them, they have lost a loved one, and are looking for someone to blame and take responsibility, it is easy to understand their emotions. I totally agree with Congressman Bunning who said the current punishment has no teeth to it. A joke. Baseball really needs to understand they are in a bind, if they don't clean this up, and have stiffer punishments and work to correct this mess, they could lose a whole lot more than public trust, they could lose their "anti-trust exemption". Congress wants to get to the bottom of this. I certainly hope Bud Light and Donald Fear were listening. Just because Mark McQuire said that Jose Cansiko was a "convicted criminal" doesn't mean he is a liar. I really think the players are more concerned with their personal image than prosecution and suspension. Why else would Mac say "I don't want to talk abuot the past". Puhlease. If you are choked up over the fact that kids are dying from using steriods, do something about it and work to put an end to it. There ought to be mandatory drug testing in MLB/College/High School. Forget the privacy issues, if you want to compete in sports, and are clean, you will have nothing to hide, and no fear of getting caught. Take the test. I understand the agruement that drug testing is a presumtion of guilt vs. a presumtion of innocence. But that is a load of ****. Caught taking an illegal drug, regardless of what it is should be a minimum of two year penalty. That should take a bite out of crime. Regardless of the level you are playing at. So, if you are caught in College or High School two years would just about finish you. Winners never cheat and Cheaters never win. You want some pitcher on steroids who has a steriod induced rage, pissed off and throwing a 90mph fastball at your sons head? There is no place for all of this in the game of baseball. Players should stop worrying about their image and start worrying about the game and how kids look up to them. Just my opinion.

We keep saying how kids look up to athletes-- maybe I am in the minority but I never felt that way-- I looked up to my dad, my uncles and my granddads--

TR, Creatine although not illegal in baseball , is illegal in the Olympics. It should be illegal in baseball.


I know why you get all defensive about creatine, you put your own kid on creatine, despite the health risks, in attempt to get an advantage. Watch how quick you delete this


KIds think in order to compete at the mlb level they have to be on performacing enhancing drugs.
I hope Don Fehr and Selig keep getting grilled by Congress. 91 MLB players tested postive for steriods according to the NY times and they knew the tests was coming.


TR you can buy steriods from the net in a ton of countries outside of the USA.

YOU cant have one policy in the minors and a weak on in the majors.WHY no union in the minors. Don Fehr is the problem and Canesco sai flat out, he took steriods because he knew he could get away with it.No testing

TR- Of course they do- but if your dad is a bus driver- I don't think many kids these days would say- Gee: I want to be a bus driver....
Fame , fortune, money, the love of the game- those are things we ALL dreamed of. Please don't make light of this issue.

DRIVEL

01-- Creatine is legal--that is fact--what you want and what is actual are worlds apart- very far apart

02--Yes my son, dont call him kid, used it-- I did not put him on it despite your unfounded assertion--it was done with his doctors and trainers approval and supervision and my acceptance of the situation--and really it is none of your business whether he used it or he didn't.

I have never defended using steroids --what I question is the means being used to prove it and people like you babbling about it when you don't even know the difference between creatine and a drug



As for deletion--no way--let you be seen for what you are


As Brooks and Dunn are singing " Only in America"

My two boys are 15 (10th grade) and 13 (7th grade). Obviously, its not enough to be on top of their "CAREER moves." It shouldn't just be the son's CAREER in which the father is interested. Any father who fails to recognize "classic symptoms" in his own son has IMO either not paid attention, or turned a blind eye...Did he question why his son began losing his temper over seemingly trivial matters, gained 15% in muscle mass in an exceptionally short time, demonstated rapid performance increases when compared to his peers or even his own prior performances? If not, WHY NOT...was he just smitten with the "out-sized" manner in which his son was suddenly performing?

I agree that, "[W]e teach our kids, guide them the best we can, and then they make thier (sic)own choices..." The choice his son made wasn't McGuire's, Sosa's or anybody's but his own. I WISH there was no crime, no accidents, no disease, no TEMPTATION, but there will ALWAYS be ALL of these things. McGuire, Sosa, Bonds and the rest are not the responsible parties. For him to suggest otherwise in these hearings may be cathartic, it may be good theater, but I think its an abdication.

As far as McGuire's sincerity is concerned, I'm not particularly impressed. IMO, the man probably used steroids and, therefore, may be worthy of contempt, but he didn't give them to Mr. Hooten's son. Mr. Hooten should take a long hard look at himself and then ask why he missed the "classic symptoms." If there is a lesson to be learned form this, as a parent it is YOUR duty to remain vigilent...its NOT the duty of any ballplayer.

In response to the original poster, Mr. Hooten has been an activist since his son died 2 years ago. He has addressed school boards, Texas Legislature, & now Congress.
Perhaps you should visit the site he set up as a result of his son's suicide.
We have had a rash of stories from Dallas-Ft.Worth School districts in the past 2 months. Mr. Hooten has been warning parents & school districts for a long time about the abuses... It happens to be that with the Balco fiasco & now Conseco's book, that he is able to get the issue on the front burner.
Visit the events page for a chronology of efforts, and Taylors Story for a more accurate detail of events.
I think you are being somewhat judgemental in your accessment.

http://www.taylorhooton.org/

Creatine Monohydrate
Increases muscle growth and strength possibly only temporarily. The recommended daily dosage of Creatine is 5g. Food sources of Creatine are: Salmon, Pork, Beef, and Tuna. However, you would have to eat about 2 ½ pounds of beef per day in order to meet the recommended dosage of Creatine. Each person's capacity for Creatine storage is different. Most of the body's Creatine is stored within the skeletal muscles. The body cannot utilize excess stores and excretes it through urination. If you are genetically predisposed to store larger amounts, then you will not benefit from additional Creatine supplements. The body can synthesize Creatine from Amino Acid stores if needed but not in any appreciable amounts.

Creatine works by assisting in the regeneration of Adenosine Triphosphate (ATP). This allows the muscles to perform contractions for longer periods before becoming fatigued. ATP is used mostly in short burst type muscle contractions. A common practice is called "loading" as recommended by the manufacturers of Creatine. This involves taking large doses (20 g/day for a about a week) and then reducing the dosage to 2 to 5 g/day.

Possible Health Hazards: dehydration, muscle cramps and muscles injuries.

Health Risks of Selected Performance-Enhancing Drugs
Peter A. Chyka, PharmD, DABAT, FAACT
This article reviews adverse effects of and the difficulty of attributing toxic effects to selected drugs and dietary supplements that purportedly enhance athletic performance. On surveys estimating the extent of performance-enhancing drug use, 5% of high school students indicated anabolic-adrenergic steroid use, and approximately 28% of collegiate athletes and 5.6% of middle and high school athletes admitted creatine use. Many adverse health effects from the abuse of androgenic-anabolic steroids and androstenedione (a prodrug) are exaggerations of excessive testosterone on hepatic, cardiovascular, reproductive, and behavioral functions that can produce permanent changes. With creatine use, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, elevated serum transaminase concentrations, hypertension, fluid retention, muscle cramping, and muscle strains have been reported. Ephedra stimulates adrenergic receptors, leading to tachycardia and hypertension, with central nervous system effects of anxiety, tremor, and hyperactivity. From 1997 to 1999, 10 people died and 13 suffered permanent disabilities due to ephedra. -Hydroxybutyrate and several prodrugs (-butyrolactone and 1,4-butanediol) can produce alternating agitation and coma, amnesia, hypotonia, ataxia, nystagmus, tremors, bradycardia, respiratory depression, and apnea. Although -hydroxybutyrate abuse began as a bodybuilding aid, most serious adverse effects are from acute overdoses. Adverse effects from performance-enhancing drugs do occur, but their extent and frequency are unknown.

Creatine


Creatine, an over-the-counter “nutritional supplement,” is used by many bodybuilders and athletes. Because of its legal status and ready availability, creatine’s popularity has been on the rise since its introduction to the fitness market.

Creatine is a naturally produced amino acid, which is needed by the body to promote muscle movement during short bursts of intense exercise. For the past decade, its use by athletes and coaches has been growing. Creatine taken over a 10-12 week period and combined with resistance training may result in increased strength, body mass and fat-free mass. Studies have confirmed that creatine enhances performance in short-term bouts of exercise that involve speed and power.

While creatine may seem like a “miracle drug,” it is important to note the health hazards that it could potentially pose. Creatine’s side effects may include nausea and muscle cramps, according to Dr. William J. Kraemer, professor of applied physiology at Penn State. Long-term side effects are not known due to creatine’s relatively recent development, and studies are currently being conducted to determine the supplement’s safety. Because the recreational use of creatine is a relatively new phenomenon, and especially because recent findings from The French Agency of Medical Security for Food (AFSSA) link the chemical to cancer, most scientific experts recommend against the use of creatine for most people.

baseballmom,

I recognize that you and, apparently, others here consider my posts on this topic callous. Actually, my kids and dog really love me...not always too sure about the wife, though.

Believe me, I empathize with Mr. Hooton's loss of his son. Nothing could be worse than the loss of a child. IMO, no child should EVER predecease a parent. I'm only addressing the "blame game." If Mr. Hooton wanted to perform an educatinal service by saying, "Look, this happened to my family because I/we didn't recognize the warning signs...Here's what to look for,"...I'd have no problem with that.

However, what I witnessed yesterday I perceived as an attempt to foist blame for such tragedies on professional baseball and its ballplayers. THAT, I don't buy...

kb, I agree with your post. I have another question for the parents of the kids. Where do they get the money for steroids? Steroids are expensive for 16 year olds to buy. Weren't the parents monitoring their finances? Taylor Hooten's uncle is Bert Hooten, a former mlb player and present coach. Did he offer no advice? Does Mr. Hooten blame his own relative? He was very insulting to people that he just thinks did steroids. Calling them cowards, liars and accusing them of shirking their responsibility. Does he yell at himself in the morror? To blame individual players for the tragedies that happen to their son's is passing the buck. imo. Who taught the kids that it was okay to cheat? Was it the players? or was it closer to home than that?

You sound like you don't have any kids of your own.

Let me say this...don't ever judge someone who is under such tough circumstances unless you have walked in their shoes. You have no idea how you would act, nor do you have as much control over your kids as you think you do. Nothing seems worse than the loss of a child and I can almost guarantee you that these folks have done a lot of yelling at themselves in the mirror.

They are grieving parents who deeply miss their son. I am almost certain they blame themselves more than anyone. They don't need you lobbing more grenades at them.

I'm all for personal responsibility, but the performance of the MLB players and management yesterday was an embarrassment.

Well said Justbaseball. I am sure that the Hooten's blame themselves more than anyone. But the probably are doing alot of "blameshifting" too. Just please understand them having to bury their son is the most awful thing in this story. Are some of the baseball players "cowards and liars", although harsh words from Mr. Hooten, I am sure of it. And if my son had been the one to die, I probably would have said alot worse. Gosh, I feel for him. Yes he should have seen the signs, but the point is he didn't, and he has to live with that for the rest of his life, and I am sure it is killing him everyday. Former and current Major league baseball players should step up to the plate and take responsibility, admit your past discretions and move on. Whether you believe it or not, you are role models to many young players. Do some good with the knowledge we now have about steriods. As far as sons taking creatine, leave it alone, it is no ones business at all! I truly respect TRHit for his candid comments on this board, and please leave insinuations out of this.

To those who think I am making light of the issue be assured I am not and if you think I am your are not reading well

My son was randomly tested during his college career-- did I worry-- a bit but I had confidence in my son

I also felt that the goverment did a bit of grandstanding by bringing parents on who now have reopened wounds--- as noted above the Hooten came from a baseball family--they should have known the signs

I also ask where did the boys get the money to buy the stuff-- who is monitoring his finaces ---don't parents visit their sons rooms--I used to a few times a week just to chat with him--never when he was not in the room-- and I was able to look around while we talked

I certainly am no smarter than any of you out there who are parents-- I say to you--be vigil--be alert-- look for signs of things being different even in his phone calls from school and who he hangs out with when he comes home--can you ever be sure ? NO!!! But I think was a lot closer to being sure than other parents.

As for the creatine involvement,it was done with supervision and guidance from medical people I trusted implicitly. AND THE SUPPLEMENT WAS AND IS STILL LEGAL!!!

Sometimes I think DRIVEL likes to go on witch hunts.

I would like to put a different spin on this...I have raised 3 children...I have been outragiously vigilant about who, what ,when, where and why...there is not a night that goes by that when they are out that I am not awake to meet and greet them upon return...not just to make sure then are in safely but also to determine there level of coherence...that being said...
My son is in college 8 hours away...if we had not traveled up for a weekend of fall ball it was conceivable we would have gone from August till December without actually having seen him...now in that time frame could he have started taking steriods without my knowledge...absolutely...some of our conversations were by phone but most were through IM's....could I have acertained by these forms of communication whether or not he was taking drugs...no way...kids can and do become quite adept at the art of deception so by the time I physically saw my son he could have been well accustomed to ingesting steroids...was he offered them...absolutely...but he had the smarts to decline them...chucked it up to having asthma and had to take steroids if he had a flare up so the pressure subsided...I think what these parents are trying to do is to teach us all from their prior errors and to also say that these boys emulate the "pro's"...some more than others and if steroids give you an advantage at this sport then they will chose to take them for that advantage..we, as a society, are very, very guilty in the art of copying...we worship stars and buy their products...we emulate players and proudly wear their numbers and names on our backs...we pay hideous amounts of money to see games, concerts etc....we diet like they do...we eat what they eat, etc etc etc so why not take the drugs...kids do not see the ramifications of these drugs they only see the monster home run produced by steroid taking players...we have home run derbys all over this country which they all wish to win...so everyone is culpable for the way baseball has become..not just players but also coaches who turn blind eyes, owners who want greater revenue, all the way up the ladder....it needs to start at the top with some level of accountability towards the youth of America

TR

Why did you feel the need to give your son creatine?

How would you feel if your son later has health related side effects because of his creatine use?

My point you have NO IDEA what the long term effects of creatine use are, no one does. So is it worth the risks? Has the FDA approved creatine safe???

justbaseball,

You have no idea who I have lost or what I have lost. You also are wrong about me having children.

You are being emmotional and you are the one lobbing grenades.

I am asking questions. None of which you addressed.

They are fair questions. I have lots of sympathy for the parents. I just feel like if we are going to go after baseball, we ought to leave no stone unturned. You cannot be a little pregnant.

How does a 16 year old get $1000 dollars for a 6 or 8 week cycle. Are the children getting way to much leeway in their hs years? Some of my child's friends have BMW's, credit cards with $750 limit. Is theri too much freedom?

Your assumptions are way off.

Catchermom03, very good insight. I learned a lot.

bbrulz- My kid has a BMW and credit cards, but no steroids. Your point?

DRIVEL

Suffice it to say it really is none of your business what I do or dont do--

BUT

Here are a few facts for you-- we have two doctors in the family-- I also have great sports doctors that I used regularly-- and my sons trainer at his university was more than knowledgeable--

Now to give you some insight and perhaps educate you

I have taken risks all my life but all wherecalculated risks--there is no proof of any problems or no problems --we talked and we decided--for a guy, me, who had meningitis 7 times as a kid ages to 11 to 21, and was counted out all 7 times, yes last rites , a craniatomy at 21 which was at that time an experimental operation (1963)at Tufts New England Medical Center and which was my choice as I had to sign the papers. In light of all this the risks for creatine seemed minimal compared to what I have known in my life. Not to mention the advice I had on its use was greatly positive.

I only trust that when,and if, you have to make decisions as I have had to for myself and my family, you will have the support staff I had to assist me. Until that time I think that unless you know all the circumstances concerning why people do what they do you might not want to blabber as much as you do.

Since I am not supposed to be here perhaps I think that I might look at things in a different light than you do Drivel. I somehow cherish every additional moment I have on earth so please don't tell me what I should and shouldnt do.

Until you have walked in my shoes don't raise questions or insinuate things with regard to me or my thought process.

I hope this satisfies you

stickwatcher, read the question after the statement. That is the point. The question. I thought that your son was in college, not sixteen. Big difference. The point. Is their too much freedom for teens? As far as no steroids, good job in raising him to make good decisions. What is your point?

WOW, after reading all them posts, i think i'll go and TRY to pick a fight with my wife. LOL. i'll lose but what the heck.POLITICS AND DRUGS DON'T MIX.

TR, ya might have fine career in politics seeing you told me everything except why did you feel the need to give your son creatine.

Politician expermented in drug use or did not inhale. Just be honest and say yeah I took drugs, and tell their kids, I should not have and it was stupid.


MY money is on your wife Hirrel 13.LOL

bbrulz,

I did not intend to lob a grenade at you...if I did, I am sorry. Really.

I interpreted your earlier comments as a lack of sensitivity for the parents of those kids. Maybe I missed your point...again, I am sorry if thats the case.

Regards.

DRIVEL

You still cannot read---I did not "give' my son creatine

Wow...The participants in this thread belong in AOL chatrooms.