Conundrum.....

LHD - Your bio states two things that jump out at me and could be important in this decision.  Says you are an "aspiring coach" and the you have "three sons."  I also see you have one heck of a baseball resume.  Any HS baseball program would be lucky to have you.  Plus the SRO angle by day???  I am a HS teacher who has coached off and on through the years.  Right now "on" as JV coach heading into year 4. 

 

Questions that pop into my head that pertain:

 

1.  Is this "rival" school a better OVERALL high school?  Most important are the academics and overall caliber of the student better there? 

2.  How old are your boys?

3. Sounds like with your resume, they'd give you a good long run to get the program up and running.  So you'd be there basically as long as you want?  Like until your youngest graduated? 

4.  Biggest Question: Could this be a package deal???  Like you AND your boys?  I know there are "sending districts" at play here and this could ruffle a lot of feathers, but it is common in some places that the "hardship clause" on a parent employed by school district can be utilized quite easily, thus allowing them to go with you to the "rival" HS if you were employed there, even as a coach. 

 

Could be awkward but you gotta do what's best for the family.  If your boys are in HS already I'm assuming you already help out with their HS team?  Is being SRO by day and Volunteer Assistant Coach by afternoon not rewarding enough for you as an "aspiring coach?"  I can understand if that's the case.  You clearly have the chops to be the skipper of any program and maybe you're tired of "assisting" someone who you are not impressed with?  Again, I can't blame you.

 

LHD- Sounds to me like you have a LOT to offer any HS. Including three ball players, two of which are LHPs?????  If your sons' HS is not finding you an influential spot in their baseball program, a spot where you can do what you truly aspire to do, then they are crazy.  Sounds like you have no other choice but to fly to rival HS and take your boys with you "out of district" and utilize the "hardship clause" that most districts have for their employees.  It would ruffle a LOT of feathers but you have a lot to offer kids, and if AD isn't making it happen at your boys' HS and the rivals are?  Boy that's awful tempting. 

 

Obviously then the SRO by day thing would then be the issue.  I'm assuming you work by day at sons' HS?  Yeah, that would be awkward.  I'm guessing the SRO gig at sons' HS is a good short term gig?  Like year to year type thing?  Can't transfer day job over to rival school?  Just coaching job?  Hmmmmm......

 

I don't know, it just sounds like you should be getting more "CT" (coaching time) at school you are working at now?  The school your boys are/will be attending.  I know you aren't doing it for the extra $1500 per year?  I'd like to know more about why you feel you can't contribute to your current HS.  The HS you work by day at, the HS your boys attend/will attend.  Is the HC just not someone you want to work with?  Even on a volunteer basis?

 

Bottom line is you are an "aspiring coach" with one long and checkered resume and you have an offer on the table from a program that appreciates and wants you.  Darn shame to let it go.  I'd like to hear more if you can shed light on some of the questions I raise above.   Specifically, are you not getting enough CT at current HS that you feel you have to entertain the "rival" offer.  I mean, how many more years do you think the HC at your current HS has got?  Can't organize a coup and suggest it's time for him to retire?  Jus' sayin'.  For many HS programs that is an option.  If not you may need to go to rival school?

 

I would make the decision indepent of the rivalry aspect. If it's a good job and a good fit I wouldn't let it hold you back at all. You'll always be a father first. I've been part of some games and programs with fathers coaches against sons and it's always been fun.

Fun?

 

Yeah, I'm sure for Mom it's real "fun."

On the "bad idea" side of the ledger is the fact that a coach's schedule (every day practice or games) is such that he can't watch much HS or college baseball except those that he is coaching.  So, potentially, you will rarely get to see your own kids play.  The same applies to coaching the opposite program (V vs JV) at your kids' school.

Coaching HS can be very rewarding but a very significant time commitment if done properly.  Consider what you are willing to sacrifice with your own kids before leaping.  I don't see the rival school thing as nearly as big a deal. 

 

 

More I think about it, I find it hard to believe you can not get your coaching aspirations fulfilled at the school your boys will be attending?  I can not imagine any HS head coach stiff arming you and saying "no thanks" to you helping out on the team?  Unless he is an egomaniac he should be able to bring you aboard in a significant capacity without feeling threatened by someone of your pedigree?  And you on the flip side, should be able to understand that the head coaching job is the current HC's to lose.  That you should take the coaching responsibilities you'd be given and nothing more.  Should be an easy and mutually beneficial relationship for two adult baseball coaches to work through?  And a win-win, for the kids, especially your sons.

 

I can't imagine this couldn't work?  The other two options: 1. You coaching rival HS and never seeing your kids play and coaching against them.  2.  You taking rival HS job and possibly bringing your boys with you.  Both very drastic options that would only be 2nd and 3rd choice to simply staying at your boys' HS and helping out however you can?

 

Still need more info from you LHD.  But sounds like these are your options. 

#1Assistant, there are many potential pitfalls to coaching your own kid/s at the HS level for the coach, the kid and the program regardless of your background.  In fact, many schools don't allow it or at least avoid it whenever possible.  Every situation is different and there are circumstances where it works fine but it surely is not cut-and-dry.  And going to a rival school and bringing his boys with him could put them all in an even worse situation.  If there was any doubt about earned PT with these kids involved, the scrutiny would be quite intense and could make life miserable for everyone.

A friend took a job coaching basketball against his two sons. It's a basketball hotbed area. The schools involved were two of three that battoed for the conference title each year. All three were perennial high seeds for the district tournament.

 

The dad/coach said he dealt with his sons exuberance when they won. He relied on his maturity when his team won. The mother/wife said she always rooted for the boys. She view was her husband can coach and win a lot longer than the boys can play

 

The drawback for the dad was the limited number of his sons high school and college games he could attend due to schedule conflicts. He coached them in summer AAU.

Would be great if Lefthookdad could chime in?  He seems to have gone radio silent on us?  I may be reading too much bringing in the sons that he mentions in his HSBBWeb profile.  He doesn't mention it in OP but his profile says he's got three sons who play.  So when he references an opportunity to coach at the "rival" HS I can only assume it's the rival HS of his sons'? 

 

Far as I can tell, he's got three choices:

 

1. Assist the Head Coach at his sons' HS.  That is assuming of course HC wants him to help out.

2. Go coach at rival HS.  Then rarely see you own kids play and when you do, you're trying to beat them.

3.  All four of them move to rival HS.

 

To me, Option #1 seems most beneficial for all?  However Dad's aspirations to be HC of his own team will have to wait.

 

Ironically speaking,  I coach JV baseball at a different HS than my son attends.   For the record, we are not rivals.

This is exactly why I'm not still coaching.  Three boys still playing HS and younger.  I didn't want to miss any of their games if I didn't have to, so that trumped coaching aspirations.  Couldn't imagine coaching against my kids.  If my kids weren't playing, different story.

My moniker on HSBBWeb is "#1 Assistant Coach" for a reason.  It's not that I really think that I am the #1 Assistant Coach in the World.  NO.  Not at all.  It's a reference to the fact that I never wanted to be Head Coach of any of my son's teams because he was always playing multiple sports, with multiple practices and games, and with my summers off due to teaching we always headed to Cape Cod when school got out.  Ie .I could never stick around thru the summer for the  Little League All Stars run that always went into July. Call me selfish, but I never wanted to have to chose between seeing my own kid play or go on vacation with the family versus the commitment to having to coach other people's kids.  Therefore I always told friends and colleagues in the youth sports arena, "Look, I will be the best Assistant Coach ever but I can not be Head Coach," as I would never make that commitment. 

 

That being said,  I fully acknowledge the dedication, sacrifice, commitment, that a willingness to be a youth sport Head Coach takes.  I have always appreciated those dads and moms that were willing to take it on. 

 

Now that son's life has settled down a bit, I am able to be head coach of my high school's JV squad.  The school where I teach.  My arrangement with AD and varsity HC is however, "I don't do April vacation, and I don't do Saturdays."  That has allowed me to watch my son play at his HS well enough.  I don't see all of his games due to the conflict with my JV squad, but hey, son needs to see that dad does have a job and a commitment, other than him.  I feel he needs the space also, so I believe it's a healthy arrangement.  Now, Head Coach of a varsity program?  No.  I just would not be willing to go down that road while son is still playing HS ball, and same with college ball if he is lucky enough.

 

Back to OP, Lefthookdad and his situation.  Yeah, tough call.  Like I said, I'd recommend he stay put and be #1 Assistant Coach at his sons' high school, instead of Head Coach at rival school.  But again, more facts are needed to piece this scenario together. 

 

LHD, are you out there? 

Still here, not MIA....thanks for all the input.  I do need to go and update my profile.  I have been recently promoted and that came with a new assignment....the good 'ole midnight shift!  But,it actually works pretty good for HS baseball...now back to the post:

 

I completely understand the intricate dynamics of the Dad/kid coaching situation and agree that if not done for the right reason it is full of pitfalls.  I have always tried to help at my kids' school with the caveat, at my request, that I always work opposite of my kid.  I have always understood to not interfere and never have.  Once my oldest reached HS, he was on his own and had to earn his play time himself.  The same with the one I have in HS now (a 2017).  I did "officially" coach two seasons ago for the school on JV while my 2017 was on JV.  Never any issues, never once did I ask nor hint towards him or his play time and had no say in the matter, which was fine by me.

At the time there was an Asst.V coach who was bucking to take take over the program and we hit it off.  He was announced as the new V coach over the summer, and that is when things changed...with him.  I have seen it happen time and time again in my profession, people obtain new found authority and turn very narcissistic.  Sometimes it just takes a while for them to work through it, sometimes they don't.  This coach hasn't and has shown all signs that implosion for the program is short coming.  After coaching the younger of the two summer teams we had, I received a call out of the blue saying he had talked to some parents, the summer team board members and some other coaches and that he decided that I would not be allowed to coach anymore because I had a kid playing, and that it went for both the summer/fall teams and the upcoming HS season. I was caught a little off guard, but told him that it was his program and his call..good luck in the future.  His first red flag, thrown out immediately to his summer players right after that...."if you play for another summer/travel program during summer or fall, you will not play for me (meaning the HS team) in the spring. He has even threatened the same to those who do not show up to the "voluntary" workouts.  Now, I am glad I am not involved, but very sad for the kids involved that are now under his tyrannical thumb and bullying tactics.

 

So, there is another school in the county that use to be good but has been run into the ground by the HC.  So much to the point that kids stopped coming out and they were unable to field a JV squad last year simply because the lacked the number of players.  The school fired the HC and has hired a young new HC, recently graduated from Purdue a few years ago, where he was a pitcher.  He has taken on the daunting task of rebuilding the program basically from the ground up.  The new HC calls me and subsequently offers me the JV HC spot.  Theoretically, it works well because that would allow me to see my son play if the schedules line up right.  My son says go for it, because he knows I can't stand not being on the field helping someone.  He wishes it was for his school, and so do I, but understands.  He knows we still work out a lot together and that I will continue to work on his game with him individually.

 

So, I am very excited about the opportunity and challenge to be in on the ground floor of rebuilding a program for school, but sad and confused about my kids program where the under positions have been filled by inexperienced "yes men" kind of coaches( but they are nice guys)...to the detriment of the future of the players.

 

My 2017 is not working out with the team at voluntary workouts...40 guys, most standing around watching someone else work out, and is not playing for the coaches fall travel team....rather working out one on with with me in the gym and on the field preparing for some fall camps/showcases.  Only time will tell if this will be held against him this upcoming January.

 

 

If the schedules do, in fact, line up so that you can still watch your son, this sounds like a great opportunity for you AND the school. You impress me as someone who is more than capable of keeping this all about the new school and not at all about what's going on at your son's school.  Ultimately, that will help everyone involved at both places.

Helping restore a program is an awesome thing... for the coach and of course even more so for the kids and the school. 

If the guy is from Purdue, turn and run as fast as you can.  (so says the IU grad).     

 

I think you have a few things going on.  It sucks that the new coach is headed in a bad direction.  But it happens all the time. 

 

More importantly, is the dynamic between your current career, kids, and future.  Right now, imo the most important is the ability to see your own kids play.  If you can make it work, then that's great.  Second, would be how long you see yourself in your current career, whether you'll eventually retire and take up coaching.  Would this role with the new HS program provide you future opportunities to be a head coach if/when you could do that?  I know a guy who was a truck driver, retired at 55 and is now an umpire -- working his way from HS to College.  If you can get everything to align just right, then go for it.  I would not even worry about the "rival school" aspect of it.  The current coach messed any "loyalty" up. 

I am hoping that they, the schedules, do line up.  My son is taking it in stride and has realized that his future in baseball is not solely based on his opportunities provided by his HS coach.  For me it is always about the kids, not the wins or losses, but the lessons learned and doors of opportunities the game can open up for them.

 

#1 Assistant....as far as my kids go, I encourage the 2017 to stay at his school, with his friends and represent that team.  As for my next one, the 2020, he is all over the place in sports right now, he is still testing the waters in all of them.  If I stay at this school and he wants to "choice" (what it's called in my county), I may allow it but would still encourage him to attend his zoned school.  I was offered the package deal for a spot with my older son but didn't even give it a second thought.

 

The V HC at my kids school would rather run the entire program solo, rather than get help from anyone. Which I think you hit the nail on the head when you said he feels threatened by anyone who has as much knowledge or more than he does, just so it can be done his way, He was taught by a long time local guy and is very set in his ways, even when shown new, fresh or other ideas.  He is very resistant to change and new ideology. Even with all this, I still hold out for hope that the current administration will take note of his heavy handed tactics towards the kids before the kids end up paying the price..

 Yep, that's the direction I am hoping this is headed toward.  I can retires in 2 1/2 yrs, but will probably do at least 5 more.  But, given my current status, i could still take a V HC spot and make it work with my work....they like the community service aspect of what I do and are pretty flexible.

Great to have you back LHD.  Wow.  So much to comment on.  With the exception of the resumes (!) our coaching paths are very similar. 

 

Quick story:  Two days before last year's season began I got a text while in my classroom from a guy who said he was a student teacher in my high school and that he wanted to know if I wanted any help in the upcoming season with my JV team.  Immediately I thought, "Oh boy, here we go again.  Like I'm going to try to get clearance for another guy from the community to assist me?"  Fact: previous two assistants two previous years both had clearance issues.  First one got busted one week before season started for "Trafficking in Heroin." NO BULL.  The second guy neglected to mention on his application that he had a "DUI" some years before.  School board was not that upset with the DUI actually, as it happened some 8 years ago. But they were not impressed that he "forgot" to reveal it on his application.  So my track record with assistants has not been that good.  So now I have this guy texting me and asking if I need help?  Cutting to the chase.  GUY WAS AWESOME.  Former Juco/D-1 RHP, now 26-years old, had TJ surgery ending his post college career.  Was a gift from Heaven.  I let him call pitches, worked with pitchers, coached at 3rd base (I moved to 1st).  I mean, I never played baseball past the 8th grade???  I've got the passion but not the resume. I gave him as much as he wanted and then some.  Kids loved this guy.  I mean, he related to the players probably more than he related to me?   There's 21 years between him and me, only like10 between him and the players.  The guy was a miracle.  We finished the season.  Worked well together.  He was looking for a full time PE teaching job all along.  I did what I could to keep him in county, but he just found a job an hour away. And good for him.  I will miss him.

 

So, what I'm trying to say is..........LHD, you've got a lot to offer KIDS.  Unfortunate that the powers that be, AD and Admin, and HC, can't see what you have to offer and make something happen.  You sound like a class guy.  You are right when you say, "Hey, it's his team, his deal" in reference to HC of varsity at your 2017's school.  Things happen for a reason.  You know that.

 

You and I both have a similar situation:  Both JV coaches at one school, and son is on Varsity of another.  True the JV/Varsity scheduling thing does work out well enough as far as game times.  A little Game Changer updates while driving the bus always helps also, if that's possible (and done safely and legally as per driving said team bus).  I do think it's a healthy situation for both Dad and Son.  It's good that your boy sees you doing something you are passionate about and I guarantee he is proud that you take the time to give back (as if giving back as a Police Officer is not enough???) to your community, and to other kids who he probably doesn't even know.  Great for him to see.

 

So much more to comment on, but time for class.  Kids are rolling in.  Hey, one more thing:  Thanks for your service in uniform.  Tough time to be wearing the badge I'm sure.  Be safe.