Cooperstown Field Of Dreams

WOW!!
That is horrible. We were there a few years ago, and nothing like that happened to us. I find it hard to believe that the Cooperstown Dream Park folks don't have edit - a better - mercy rule. It's really disappointing that they let this happen.

We did have an issue with bad sportsmanship, but the tournament director intervened. It was a close elimination game, and their players were trying to rattle our pitcher by hollering their little heads off and banging their bats against the roof of the dugout every time he came set. It was working. Our coach called our boys off the field and called the tournament director, who said they could holler, but quit with the bats. We won, and after the game I overheard one of the parents say, "it didn't work this time." Sheesh. Another parent threatened our pitcher, and another parent came to our next game, walked into the place where we were sitting (he knew not where he was) and bad-mouthed our coach to the closest umpire. It was easy to see where the boys got it from.

It really was a great week, though.

My son went about eight years ago. Nothing like that happened. We played the team that eventually won the whole thing first.They were a very good travel team.We were just there with allstar type players.We lost but it was actually a close game and the coach later told our coaches that it was one of the best games they played. They only gave up about 4 runs the enire tourney.All in all a good exp. for us.

dad43

You simply suck it up and move on----what goes 'round will come back 'round, trust me---I have been doing this for many moons


Do not even lower yourself to their level even if the urge is there--especially at the 10-12 age bracket

And on their home page they have the audacity to stand there with big smiles on their face as if they've done nothing wrong?....no....pathetic...IMO.

TR you are right. Had the same situation with a LL team that beat us one day 20-0 in a regular season game. I played kids in numerous positions. Batting was upside down to give other kids a chance to bat top of the order. They locked down their infield, bat kids strictly per our league rules.

Then came playoff time we meet again and we win 5-4 in extra innings. So you are right what goes around comes around.

This makes me think of the Oregon/Boise State football game from last night. The Boise State player said something less than complimentary to the Oregon player so the Oregon player throws a sucker punch.

You have to learn to take the high road here and let that team revel in their obnoxiousness. You can walk off the field with your head held high knowing that not only did you play the best you could, you are clearly the better person.

The people who really matter (your friends and family, the umpires and the tournament organizers) will appreciate you much more than the 53-run scorers.

Youth baseball teaches so much about life and this is one of those experiences where I believe the "losing" team often comes out the "winner."

My thoughts are this....There are a couple different types of travel tournaments, ones that you earn the right to play in and those that any team that chooses to pay the price can attend. Cooperstown has always been a "If you pay, you can play" tournament. I know people from the town and this is a major source of income for many of them. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but competiton is always questionable and you will get teams with different attitudes then maybe the Super Series, Triple Crown or USSSA national events that you must qualify for in local tourneys.
Not that you may not find a little attitude there to...pretty high strung , some of these "Elite Travel Teams".

If you look further down the article to the comments section there is a synopsis from someone telling a somewhat different story of the game.

They claim that the other team committed 35 errors.
Arsenal offered to stop the game but tourney officials would not allow it.
Arsenal turned off the scoreboard but officials turned it back on.
They batted opposite hand. etc...

My son plays for Arsenal so I'm going to try to find out the truth, probably somewhere in the middle.

fillsfan, I would like to hear some more details about this story personally.

After reading further about this 12yr old team being qualified to even play during this "tournament of Champions" week does put a different tone to the bigger story.

Like many of us, I have been involved in many of these types of blowout games over the years, as a player, a parent, and a coach. For people of good character, these types of games are not any fun for anyone -- victor or vanquished.

I was forutnate enough to have a Father and Coaches who taught me that it is more important HOW you win, and lose, than that you win or lose. Character counts.

When you are on the short end of one of these, you have to keep battling. Every pitch, every down, every second ... you keep battling and give your very best to your team, your coaches, your fans, and yourself. You may lose the game, but when you walk away from the field knowing that you gave your very best you will have won something.

When you are on the winning side of one of these games, it is important that you recognize that you have the far superior team on the field that day, and you adjust accordingly. There are plenty of ways to take your foot off the throttle without stealing the dignity of the other team.

Personally, I don't want to see a team begin to bat opposite handed, or step on home plate to make an out, or jog the bases to create out opportunities. That is an insult to the other kids.

Empty your bench, play station-to-station, play kids out of position, pitch your non-pitchers; all of these are ways you can ease up on the throttle without taking away the dignity of the kids on the other team.

And by all means, teach your kids when it is time to stop hooting and hollering, and to transition into the "gallery clap" that shows a restrained respect for good play.

I also believe that the coach is responsible for making sure the parents/fans maintain a proper level of dignity and decorum. Too many times it is the parents in the stands whose behavior sets the wrong tone. Applaud excellence from both sides. Cheer in a positive fashion for your team, not against the other team; and by all means, know when to shut the @#$% up.

Respect the game. Respect the opposition. Respect yourself. It is always a sad day when these basic tennants of good character and sportsmanship are forgotten.

Blow-outs are going to happen. In the long run, it is more important HOW you win, and lose, than that you win or lose. Character does count.

Just a thought.

After reading this article, I was left with the feeling that the writer didn't even see the game. I think he heard about it, asked a few questions and made a lot of assumptions. I think he is blinded by the outrage he thinks occurred.

I did see the response from someone telling a different side of the story which, even if it's no more factual than the original, seems more likely to be closer to the truth.

I have seen it before, where kids who lose in colossal fashion, move on as if it were just another game. I doubt their self-esteem was seriously damaged. They probably remember more of the events surrounding the tournament than this game.

i learned this a long time ago.

some you win, some you lose, some get called for rain....but you have to dress for them all.

Keep in mind also that in some tournaments including Cooperstown the runs scored per game is a tie breaker in how each team is seeded.

I don't like the way some teams "run up" the score, but I certainly understand their reasons.

CWM

quote:

I find it hard to believe that the Cooperstown Dream Park folks don't have edit - a better - mercy rule. It's really disappointing that they let this happen.

They have a mercy rule. As for teams getting beatdowns of 35-0 and 53-0, it's usually the result of the loser team's inability to get out of its own way and the winning team scores with little effort.

If the Arsenal was stealing home on throwbacks to the pitcher as reported when up by all those runs, then that makes no sense but if they're scoring at will and the other team can't get out of it's own way, the that's the way it goes. The losing team was in over their heads in a tournament.

I had the pleasure of attending Cooperstown this year as a coach of my sons travel team. Yes, there is a big disparity of talent across all the teams. I didn't witness any poor sportsmanship while I was there but I did have the opportunity to talk with other coaches who brought teams from less competitive programs. My team came with an expectation of going6-4 or 5-5 but I was stunned when another coach told me he didn't expect his team to score let alone win. After one particular blowout this same coach told me the team was celebrating because their pitcher actually managed to strike out one of the players on the other elite program team. I asked the player about it and he talked me through each pitch of that strike out. If you go to Cooperstown and make it all about winning or even the score then you are missing the point. It is called Dreamspark for a reason.

Usually in stories like this there are two sides and they are usually the way each wants to see it. I wasn't there so I won't pass judgement (and being there is the only way I would).

There are a lot of good coaches out there, that are in it for the KIDs. But I have noticed in the 12 years so far that I have followed my son from Tee Ball to High School. That SOME of these so called ADULTS either coaches or parents, think that they are at the 7th game of a World Series. They put way too much pressure on young kids and some of their actions are disgusting. Also most of the so called ADULTS I'm sure never played sports and are living their sports life thru the kids. Granted the few ruin it for the many, but you just have to wonder "What the HELL are they thinking"

Kids aren't born with poor sportsmanship it's something that is learned from the adults around them. My son played ONCE for a coach that had that Win or ELSE attitude. I won't go into details (it still makes me sick to this day) but when I saw this coaches actions during a game. Both with his players and with the other coach and umpires. I walked out onto the field during the third inning while my sons team was in the field and waved him off the field and told him to pack up his stuff and after a few choice words right in the face of his coach (so no one else could hear) we left and that was the last my son played for him. I hated that I had to do this because I am sure my son got his B***S broke from his friends. But what made me actually proud of this incident was that my son who was upset, told me on the ride home that "He Knew why I did it" and he wasn't mad at me.

What really got me mad was that most of the parents on my sons team thought that this coach was GOD. It is guy's like this that give the coaches who are there for the right reason a bad rapp.


It's funny this article talked about kids screaming and hitting their bats on the dugout when the opposing pitcher came set. I have been too and watched a whole lot of pro & college baseball games over the years and I can't ever recall once ever seeing that type of thing happen. My son has been on teams that pull that kind of **** but he knows better and that I can't control what his teammates do, but I can control what he does. He knows that the only thing that should come out of his mouth during a game from either the field or the dugout is encouragement for his teammates and nothing else.

At 53-0, I don't see how there could be a second side to this one. Field of Dreams officials should have stopped the game (and told the losing group not to come back, by the way).

(previously posted on another board)

This isn't intended to be a defense or a poke at Arsenal. It's just my exposure to the program. I know a little about the Arsenal from coaching against them, my son playing against them and getting to know some of the parents.

The Arsenal program does a very good job of placing their 17U and 18U players in quality college programs. Joe Barth is very well connected in the college community. An ACC coach once told me he's one of the best hitting instructors in the country. If not for distance and traffic my son would be taking hitting lessons there.

I found the 13U and 14U teams to be a bit arrogant. But maybe you can be a little arrogant if you can back it up. They never mercied us. We did beat them a couple of times. When my son was 14U a player, an Arsenal player injured him on an over aggressive slide. The coaching staff and the dad were apologetic. I still communicate with the dad on another site. My son skippped 15U. At 16U I found the players to be more subdued and businesslike rather than obnoxiously rowdy. Maybe that comes with maturation. There's also a fairly good size roster turnover from 13U to 16U from pretenders to players. However my son still says he'd rather beat them than play for them. It's just his personal preference based on the 13U/14U exposure.

I don't really have any experience on the 9U to 12U programs other than watching parts of games when those age groups were at the same complex as when my son played 13U and 14U. I spoke with delusional parents who thought their sons were on the way to college ball just by being in the program. If you've seen my history here, you know how I feel about preteen travel (beyond community based) and academy training and teams. But if there are sucker parents willing to whip out the wallet, making money is the American way.

If you go to the Arsenal website you will not see bragging of winning tournament after tournament. You will not see bragging of where they place players in college ball. You will see nothing but general information and where their teams are ranked nationally from 14U to 18U. If you go to the academy website you won't see anything about the travel teams except a link back to the travel team site. Yes, they can sometimes appear arrogant on the field at the younger ages. But it's a first class organization.

I've coached a 10U (community based) travel game my team won 56-2. It's an uncomfortable feeling. No one wins. I could tell before the game what was going to happen. I just couldn't believe to the degree it occurred. My team was up 18-0 after one. I offered to accept a 6-0 forfeit and have a scrimmage. I made the same offer at 34-0 after two.

After the first inning non pitchers pitched, infielders played outfield and vice versa. Any kid who wanted was allowed to bat the opposite way. We took standup doubles on balls to the fence. We did take the base if a wild pitch/passed ball went all the way to the backstop. I told parents if they felt they had to cheer for hits, they had to leave. The game was nothing to get excited about. And the two runs we allowed pitching non pitchers cost us a notch in seeding after pool play.

(from Joe Barth on another site)

Dear Sirs,

You are completely off base with your criticism of my coaches at Cooperstown. You obviously were not there. My coaches did what they could to keep the score down, short of striking out on purpose. They stopped running in the first inning, went station to station and did not advance on most balls, bunted the ball right back to the pitcher a number of times to no avail, and batted opposite handed for the last couple innings. Nothing helped. After 2innings it was 35-0. Our coach and the other coach pleaded to have the game stopped. That team should not have been in the tournament. That coach should have pulled his team off the field. We were told if we pulled our team off we would forfeit, we had to play 3 innings. The bottomline is we did what we could.We used every tactic normally used to keep the score down. The tournament offical told my coach, who was very upset, that he did everything he could have done, not to worry about it. Now, I read nothing about what really happened and the story has grown a life of its own. Here is the bottomline! The Arsenal is a first-class organization and always tries to display sportsmanship and do the right thing. The coaches and the kids did everything in their power to keep the score down and it just wasn't possible because that poor team just couldn't catch a ball. They literally ran away from the ball when it was hit to them.The tournament officials should have stopped the game. Period. You are blaming the wrong people.

One problem with the Cooperstown tournaments is teams attend that have no business attempting to compete in these kinds of tournaments. I believe this same team also got beat by 30+ and 40+ in other games.

I love how the writer exaggerates his point of Arsenal's players being from three states. The kids are from one metro area (Phailadelphia) where three states come together in close proximity.

I think the writer is the classless act, not Arsenal ...

"After learning of these scores, the following night I didn't sleep well. I woke up at 4:30 a.m. and was awake until daylight. My switches were turned on. I kept thinking about what I would have done if I was on the losing end of an eventual 53-0 score.

Right off the bat there would have been some poor language on my part directed at the opposing coach - that's an automatic. But how would I have gotten back at this guy? How could I send this guy a message?

My first reaction was to put my own kid on the mound and to have him throw a few "high and tight," but that would have been wrong because the other team would have retaliated. My next thought was to have my infielders make some bad throws that happened to go near the opponent's coaching staff, but again, that may have put my kids in some physical danger.

So I kept thinking. How does one react to being beaten 53-0 in a 10-12 baseball game? It took a full day to come up with an appropriate solution: I would have made the remainder of the tournament miserable for the opposing coach. I would have gone to every one of his games and heckled him until I got under his skin. And when I got under his skin, I would have kept going. I would have gone on and on and on to the point of completely ruining the trip for that coach."

It would have been so much class (sarcasm) to heckle a team comprised of preteen kids. If you're heckling the coach, you're heckling the team.

RJM,

I should have known you would have some information on this. Can you tell where you got Joe's letter. PM me if you want.

I have heard the speech about respecting the game and the opposition many times, and have also seen station to station ball a few times.