corner players

I just went through this with a friend whose son has played mostly first base all his life. The dad sweated it out until the kid finally got a one D1 offer.

From my observations in showcase ball and watching college ball no one recruits first basemen. It's the position college players get placed when they can hit and can't win their position. A friend's son (now a pro) played first his freshman year and moved to short after the shortstop graduated. For the next three years at this school (major conference) players who could hit and didn't win the starting catching position played first.

If you see a first baseman recruited it's because he can hit, not because he plays first. At a local D1 I met the dad of the first baseman. The kid is 6'4" and too slow to play outfield. He was recruited because he can drive the ball.

I agree 100% with RJM. You better be able to mash if your trying to get recruited as a corner position player.

Many coaches just recruit MIF's and CFers and just adjust them as openings need filling when looking at the corner infield and outfield positions.

If you are at a corner position especially RF, you better be able to hit and you better have an arm. I agree with RJM, I know one CWS ACC team that does not recruit 1B.

quote:

Originally posted by Spider59:
My son is a 2013 1b/OF who last summer/fall began attending some college specific camps and showcases (headfirst and a PG). My takeaway is that 95% of focus at all these events is on pitching, catching and MIF. Corner IF/OF seem to be wallpaper for the coaches/scouts at these events. We are planning more of the same this coming summer and have begun looking at rosters of schools in his target set (strong academics - low D1/D3) to see where needs may be arising for his positions. But would appreciate any feedback or advice from the more

experienced members who may have had "corner" kids, as to how best garner attention/interest.

I believe you are exactly correct in your observation. 1b is not generally a recruited position as everyone has stated. My observations has been that DH and 1b are two slots available to the Coach to get good bats into the game without significant defensive concerns.

If your son is a legitimate power threat, however, and large framed (well over 200lbs, 225+ is often the norm in good programs), he may get attention there.

If a kid doesn't play any of the positions you mentioned, then by default they become outfielders. Team needs, his foot speed and arm strength will determine where he plays. If he doesn't hit well, he likely won't play in the outfield either.

Thus, the skills to focus on strengthening in preparation for these events is not so much defense at first or the OF, but hitting, hitting, arm strength and foot speed!

My 2010 played only 1b, both in HS and primarily there on Summer teams. He was recruited strictly for his bat, and was told he would catch or play the outfield. He was recruited by different schools at each of those positions even though he never played a single HS game there.

Thanks to all for the comments. Trying to figure out recruiting issues/strategy in context of my son's position. He's 6'4" and while athletic and with good speed, he's unlikely to become a MIF or C. And he has good power but is not a big frame - now 195 but unlikely to be 225 even with a lot more weight work. I guess at the end of the day it's his bat that will give him the most/best options. Thanks again.

w hat sort of arm does he have
what age is he?

quote:

Originally posted by Spider59:
Thanks to all for the comments. Trying to figure out recruiting issues/strategy in context of my son's position. He's 6'4" and while athletic and with good speed, he's unlikely to become a MIF or C. And he has good power but is not a big frame - now 195 but unlikely to be 225 even with a lot more weight work. I guess at the end of the day it's his bat that will give him the most/best options. Thanks again.

What is his time in the sixty? You would be surprised how much it can be cut with proper training. With a decent sixty time he could be viewed as a possible outfielder even if he ends up at first.

The kid I referenced who only got one D1 offer as a first baseman did train to be an outfielder in his spare time. His showcase team occasionaly played him in left to open up the possibilities.

Good point RJM. You can expand your options you don't have to limit yourself to 1b or dh. Get more athletic, work hard to get better.

3b lf rf 1b dh. Those positions are wide open for guys who can simply make a routine play and mash. Your middle ss 2b c cf those guys have to be able to play defense at a high level at the college level.

Many programs simply do not recruit dh and 1b. Those positions are for the guys who can hit that can't beat out the other guys in the field. And remember dh is a war at the college level. Everyone who is not playing that is a position player is fighting for those at bats. And many times the #1 catcher will get Dh at bats because they are going to need his stick at least 2 out of 3 on the weekends. So they get at bats when he is not catching.

Your second best SS can be moved to 3rd if he can hit. Your second best anything can move over to 1st base and be adequate if he can hit. Just keep working hard and you will be fine. Thats all you can do anyway. Good luck

My son is a lefty 1B. He went to a D1 camp recently and he hit the ball pretty hard. He was the only position player they talked to after the camp was over.For him he plays a much better first base than he does corner outfield. He is not super slow...he has run a 7.0. He gets to the ball but it sometimes is an adventure,his routes and angles need to improve. It does seem that D1 schools take a lot of shortstops and 2B and convert them to what they need. I'll take a big first baseman who is fast athletic and can mash the ball over a converted shortstop that is a gap to gap hiter. I think the best teams have a combination of both.This has me wondering how many D1 1B were 1B's in high school.

Runningaway,

You got me curious, too.

I checked a dozen randomly selected signing class announcements for programs ranging from CWS participants to small D1's. I searched each document for "first base" and "1b."

The results are consistent with what the experienced posters said.

Of 122 players who signed at these schools last November, only six had first base as part of their resume:
One with 1b as secondary position to catcher.
One with 1b as second of three positions he plays.
One with 1b as third of three positions he plays.
One pitcher who was all conference as a 1b.
One 240-pounder described as a "big right handed power hitter."
One 1b/rhp with a top 100 national ranking.

It's possible that some players listed simply as infielders did play first base, but in general this unscientific review supports the conventional wisdom that high school first basemen need to play additional positions or be true power hitters to move on to D1.

Just wondering if the new bat rules have any influence over what type of player colleges recruit. Home runs are down so much that the big masher's may have become obsolete. Defense, hitting for average, and obp may trump power. For example a power hitter who hit 20 hrs now only hits 5. Is 5 hrs worth the defensive liability, lack of speed on the bases and lower obp? Of course the 'true' power hitters will always be in high demand, but they are few and far between. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks again for all the insightful comments. Swampboy - your post also got me thinking about the numbers. The stats do support "over-recruiting" at C and MIF and "under-recruiting" at corners and OF. I compiled a bunch of the PG 2012 college commitment data and those who listed 1b as primary position represented about 8% of total position player commitments - any one position represents 1/8 of total which equals 12.5%. 3b was about 9%.

While some D1's may not recruit corners - top schools like Texas, Vandy, Cal, Fullerton, Georgia and Oregon State all recruited 1b's from the 2012 class. Programs below that high level that my son may interest are hopefully even less wed to the institutional bias/view. That said it's clear MIF and C are the most recruited positions.

All just data points- as said consistently here it all comes back to hitting. I am curious as to the view on Big Ed's post re speed/defense. The other stat I looked at was size and the average was 6'3" and 202 lbs - so maybe not as skewed towards the corner "bopper" profile as suggested.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Ed:
Just wondering if the new bat rules have any influence over what type of player colleges recruit. Home runs are down so much that the big masher's may have become obsolete. Defense, hitting for average, and obp may trump power. For example a power hitter who hit 20 hrs now only hits 5. Is 5 hrs worth the defensive liability, lack of speed on the bases and lower obp? Of course the 'true' power hitters will always be in high demand, but they are few and far between. Any thoughts on this?

I think it will have some influence but not alot. Not as much as I thought when asked this question six months ago. We used BBCOR last year (HS)and I've gotten a pretty good look at many of our same HS V hitters using this year's new BBCOR bats. I've also caught a handful of JC games the last few weeks. The newer BBCOR, as many here predicted, are a bit better and, as well, the hitters are making the necessary adjustments. Yes, not as many HR, but balls still getting over top of the OF and driven to the gaps. There is/will be more small ball to manufacture runs but I think the college coaches generally will still want the stronger players who can drive the ball. The coach mindset will be that they can teach those players small ball as needed. Of course, this will vary by program. Granted, this is a very small sampling.

Corner infielders and corner outfielders are hitting positions as far as prospects go. If someone shows outstanding hitting ability he will be recruited and/or possibly drafted. If he shows enough hitting ability and power he can be a first round draft pick. Every college in the country wants kids with first round ability.

The biggest problem is when someone is so weak defensively that he can't play a position. Not many strictly DHs getting drafted or getting DI interest.

BTW, without even looking it up there are several kids drafted in the first round out of high school as 1B and 3B. David Wright, Prince Fielder, Casey Kotchman, Adrian Gonzalez, Eric Hosmer, James Loney, John Mayberry, Ian Stewart, Billy Butler, Josh Vitters, Matt Dominguez, Bobby Borchering, etc. Guys like Justin Smoak, Ike Davis, Brett Wallace, Pedra Alvarez, Ryan Zimmerman, Yonder Alonso, Mark Teixeira, etc., all went to college as corner guys and then were drafted in the first round as corner guys.

It should be obvious why pitching is #1 in the draft and in recruiting. Normally the best athletes tend to play middle infield and centerfield in HS. Catchers play a critical position. But the top hitters stand out and are recruited by DI schools everywhere. Sometimes that top hitter who ends up playing 1B at the next level played a different position in HS. He was recruited because of the bat, more than his ability as a shortstop or whatever his HS position was.

So here is the difficulty. 1B and LF become two spots that include the largest number of candidates. High School 1B are not just competing against other HS 1B for recruiting interest. They are competing with all the infielders, outfielders, catchers, even pitchers for interest. Much easier to turn a shortstop who can hit into a first baseman than the other way around. If your a HS 1B you need to be an outstanding hitter, better than most all the 1B and every other player at all the other positions.

Please don't confuse this with thinking defense is not important. It's always very important and desirable at every position. It's just that MLB doesn't draft kids who are great defensive 1B unless they have great hitting ability. The same is true at the higher levels of college.

Fantastic post PG

quote:

BTW, without even looking it up there are several kids drafted in the first round out of high school as 1B and 3B. David Wright, Prince Fielder, Casey Kotchman, Adrian Gonzalez, Eric Hosmer, James Loney, John Mayberry, Ian Stewart, Billy Butler, Josh Vitters, Matt Dominguez, Bobby Borchering, etc. Guys like Justin Smoak, Ike Davis, Brett Wallace, Pedra Alvarez, Ryan Zimmerman, Yonder Alonso, Mark Teixeira, etc., all went to college as corner guys and then were drafted in the first round as corner guys.

These would be the top end of all kids who once played high school. It was about their hitting, not what position they played.

The rest of your post is the reality of the situation. Everyone kid who is a high school first baseman or a college first baseman is competing with everyone who might be moved to that position because they can hit but not play in the middle of the field like in the past.

I used to make the same point when I coached pre high school kids in basketball to their parents. All the kids 6'2" and under (75% of them) will be competing for the 2 guard position unless they can play point.

Note: Please save it if you're going to post 6'2" kids play forward at your high school. It rarely happens at large classification ranked high schools. Son's former high school is 6'8", 6'7", 6'5" across the front. The 6'5" kid can jump out of the building.

It all comes back to Baseball's #1 unwritten rule. Hit and they have to find a place for you.

I have been down this road with my son. He was 1B in HS and played the position 4 years in college. However, the reality is each coach has a point of view as to the need or value of a player whose only position is 1B.

My son is 6'4" 225lbs left handed and not particulary fast. There was many a coach that had a point of view that kept my guy on the bench.

In spite of not being blessed with speed he led the country in 2b's his sophomore year which helped coaches see beyond his large stature.

Once he got to his college the coach realized what he had in the way of a hitter and it never really was an issue. However, each summer he went to summer collegiate league he would have to convince coaches that he was the best option at first(it didn't always happen).

My advice is learn what the coaches point of view is. There are coaches that put speed as a priority, there are those that put their best athletes on the field and there are the traditionalist that want your 1B to hammer the ball.