Cost has often been a criticism of PG

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

FWIW, most tournament orgs rank teams. USSSA has been doing it for years. When my son’s team moved up to 11u we would always check the rankings to see where those teams were playing and would go to those events. They’d win some and lose some, but the competition was always much better than playing the same local teams over and over.

I understand that it’s been done for a while. It’s totally arbitrary and I don’t think it’s productive to the healthy development of young players. It fuels the need for immediate gratification (which is bad) in a way that’s totally meaningless (which is also bad). IMO it’s not good for the game.

I have been contemplating writing a reply so here goes.

The #6 team on the list is from this area. The entire organization was founded and currently run by my son's best friend. The owners are 2 brothers who put up the money because they were disgusted about how bad South Florida youth travel baseball had become. The organization now consists of players of all ages. They also have 2 training centers, which is the key to their success.  The owners are not evil men wanting to make lots of $$$. They hire and spend money on great baseball people. The owners were already quite wealthy way before TBT Baseball came into existence. You can Google. They also sponsored girls soccer, not sure if that is still happening.

Agree with TerribleBP,  USSA youth baseball teams have been ranked for years, even since son was in HS. Whether anyone agrees or disagrees with ranking elementary school baseball players is a personal preference. I just know that we sought out the best organization for son to be involved with and it was nowhere as good as what's happening today in youth baseball.

FWIW Perfect Game was instrumental in the success of son and many of his friends involved in baseball. I would have had no issue with them ranking sons team when he was 9 or 10 years old.

JMO

If a HS kid has goals/aspirations of playing college baseball the parents need to worry more about blatant over-recruiting and the recent changes to the transfer portal then any kind of eyewash PG promotes. PG, PBR, etc.... are just a business model. Ranking tee ball teams is just stupid and shouldn't be defended. Now the top several HS kids they promote are the top several kids - no doubt... But from that point on it's really just a coin flip. Not to mention many of these so called D1 studs will end up with a rude awakening when they compete against 23yr old grown men with metal bats. Why do you think there are soooo many guys in the portal? Best advise is to find somewhere you can play. The best kid I've seen play in quite a while just decided to go to very good D3 program. I wish him the best, it was an excellent decision - and he is a "D1 guy".     

@ReluctantO'sFan posted:

................

Why do you think there are soooo many guys in the portal? Best advise is to find somewhere you can play. The best kid I've seen play in quite a while just decided to go to very good D3 program. I wish him the best, it was an excellent decision - and he is a "D1 guy".     

Kind of sounds like he has professional aspirations away from the baseball field.   If so, great decision to go somewhere with a genuine opportunity to get on the field to play a game he loves.   Great strategy.

@fenwaysouth posted:

Kind of sounds like he has professional aspirations away from the baseball field.   If so, great decision to go somewhere with a genuine opportunity to get on the field to play a game he loves.   Great strategy.

The kids that figure out early on that they are better off (in today’s world) playing at a level where they can excel vs attempting to play in the best possible program are winning the game. More kids should follow this path

Here's the best 12U team I'd ever seen (2007) a year ahead of my son (68 and 1). Looking at the roster, their PG rankings and max level reached, that was pretty good recruiting for 12 year olds. 7 out of 13 drafted, including a 1st rounder...

My son did play on some pretty good travel teams, and I thought the team rankings were fun - thankfully we never played up against this team... lol!

If you have fun with it and don't take it too seriously I don't believe there's any harm in ranking the teams at any age. Maybe when we were involved it was the golden years of PG and USSSA - but we enjoyed all of it...

2007 12U Roster - After HS - where'd they go...  

Wow

As Mr Vader used to say, "Impressive"

Nice post Bill. I don't think that they were ranking 9,10 year olds when son was that age, but they were ranking HS players.

I agree, I don't see the harm in rankings. I actually think it's pretty cool and creates good memories for all involved.

Here is son's graduating class 2004, which also includes sons of former websters.

https://www.perfectgame.org/Ra...ings.aspx?gyear=2004

My son’s team got to play the #1 USSSA team in his 12u year. We had a stud pitcher (one who couldn’t afford to play but we had sponsors cover his costs). Shut them down for five innings, then they tried to recruit him after the game, lol.

Area Code Baseball. In 1987, I commence the games with the advice and constant communication with the California Pro Scouts.

No "copycats" existed at that time. Parents often requested "ranking" the players. I refused for 17 years.

The Scouts and I decided not to rank players. Six days of games are too few to evaluate a player. Our annual "signing" bonus of the AC players is the rank.

How can you measure the "heart", the courage, the "will to win"?

What is the background, the experience of the individual who is "ranking"?

Bob

For my 2024 son (about to graduate HS in ~7 weeks), his local 11u-12u team started putting them in regional PG tournaments (in south Jersey, Staten Island NY) against better competition - about 90 minutes to 2 hours drive from our home (home is in SE PA).   His performance AND all the data that PG collects for each pitch and every swing in every tournament game loaded into their national database put my kid on the map.   

I never paid for him to attend a PG Showcase Event, but the tournament travel did expand to include GA/AL/FL.  My son's FOMO and my PTO/$ wallet were in near constant tension for the past few years :-)  If the data that PG collects on your son is unfavorable, you might want to calibrate expectations and stay local for game play.

My son is still chasing his dream!
... and I'd love to see his dream come true (and also get a college degree along the way).

Dream Chasing is not free, catching your dream is Priceless.

@Consultant posted:

Area Code Baseball. In 1987, I commence the games with the advice and constant communication with the California Pro Scouts.

No "copycats" existed at that time. Parents often requested "ranking" the players. I refused for 17 years.

The Scouts and I decided not to rank players. Six days of games are too few to evaluate a player. Our annual "signing" bonus of the AC players is the rank.

How can you measure the "heart", the courage, the "will to win"?

What is the background, the experience of the individual who is "ranking"?

Bob

Amen ! I agree with every word. Especially the part about who is doing the ranking.

Because years of ranking players has evolved into many players being more concerned about rankings than winning games. Not fun to coach those players.

@adbono posted:

Amen ! I agree with every word. Especially the part about who is doing the ranking.

Because years of ranking players has evolved into many players being more concerned about rankings than winning games. Not fun to coach those players.

My biggest beef with ranking players by PG can be directly correlated to how much money you spend with them. And I agree, some are just chasing a ranking. I hated when the dad of a 9.5 would tell me all about it, meanwhile he has a 3.5 HS ERA and more losses than wins. Can’t get HS kids out, how is he going to get P5 kids out?!

@mjd-dad posted:

For my 2024 son (about to graduate HS in ~7 weeks), his local 11u-12u team started putting them in regional PG tournaments (in south Jersey, Staten Island NY) against better competition - about 90 minutes to 2 hours drive from our home (home is in SE PA).   His performance AND all the data that PG collects for each pitch and every swing in every tournament game loaded into their national database put my kid on the map.   

I never paid for him to attend a PG Showcase Event, but the tournament travel did expand to include GA/AL/FL.  My son's FOMO and my PTO/$ wallet were in near constant tension for the past few years :-)  If the data that PG collects on your son is unfavorable, you might want to calibrate expectations and stay local for game play.

My son is still chasing his dream!
... and I'd love to see his dream come true (and also get a college degree along the way).

Dream Chasing is not free, catching your dream is Priceless.

Perfect Game has partnered with Magnus Sports Group (Yackertech, Baseball Cloud & Softball Cloud)

https://www.perfectgame.org/Ar...p;src=hmrep&s=01

Note, I saw this technology in Chicago at the ABCA convention Jan 2022.

QR Recruiter https://www.qrrecruiter.com/ has enhanced this product to include integration with Gamechanger.

Arkansas American Legion is doing a pilot this summer, where you will be able to do your own recording on your phone and subsequently upload, thus you will not need PG events in order to create your athlete digital resume.

I coached a ranked USSSA team in 13u, 14u and 16u. All I cared was the team was competitive and the players were advancing to be potential quality high school players. All but one played college ball. The one chose college basketball. I cared more about my players executing stopping the opponent on the second and home steal than winning on a trick play.

One 14u weekend we opened up ranked as the regional #1. It was the kids were talking about. It was their focus. The parents were the same. I stopped it all with “Bleep the rankings. This is a new weekend. We have a game to play and no one is focused on it. We won’t be #1 long.”

I’m not a downer. But I like to deal in reality. Celebrating is for after the end result.  When my son was playing 17u I told him on any given day there wasn’t a squats bit of difference between his 500 something ranking and a player with a 1,000. “How are you going to differentiate yourself.”

For those who don’t know the answer, play every minute of the tournament like it’s tied in the ninth inning of the seventh game of the World Series.

@adbono posted:

This is not “just publishing the results of tournaments”.  This is arbitrarily ranking teams as young as 9U.

It's not arbitrary. Those teams get ranked by winning games in PG tournaments, with a higher weighting for national- and regional-level events and playing up in age and/or classification. The highest ranked team won a 9U super regional and was runner-up in a 10U super regional. I.e. the rankings are the aggregated results of PG tournaments.