Could this be a hit?

Fielder's Choice is the right decision.

10.06 A base hit shall not be scored in the following cases:

(d) When a fielder fails in an attempt to put out a preceding runner, and in the scorer's judgment the batter runner could have been put out at first base

quote:

Originally posted by gimages:
Runners on 2nd and 3rd. Batter hits grounder to 3rd baseman. Runner on third fakes as if he is going home. Runner sees the 3rd baseman throw home and returns to 3rd base safley. Player that hit ground ball reaches first safely. Is the runner that reaches 1st base awarded a hit? I keep score to keep myself busy during the game. I scored it a fielders choice. Son was the player on third and said it did that on purpose. He also says it is a base hit.

Standard admonishment! What rules is the game being played under?

Although I don’t necessarily disagree with Glove Man, it wasn’t completely clear based on your description of the play, whether or not it was a FC or a hit. You have to look at some other rules to really get the proper answer.

When you explain a situation, it always helps if you give as much information as possible, so the person trying to answer you doesn’t need to make too many guesses. FI, what rules was the game played under, what inning was it, what was the score, how many outs were there, …?

In this scenario, the thing that’s most important is: in your opinion, would the batter-runner have been put out on an ordinary and errorless play at 1st? It might have been that the ball was a very slow grounder that would have taken an above average 3B making an extraordinary play to get the batter-runner. In that case, it’s a base hit.

In this particular case, OBR, which is what Glove Man quoted, is different than what NFHS says about base hits. You see, NFHS doesn’t have a section that says when base hits may not be scored. But 9-3-2-c does talk about a base hit in relation to a FC, and does say to look in 2-14-1 to see what a FC is.

Then, when ya look at 2-14-1, it says the scorer has to decide whether or not the batter-runner would have been safe, as stated in 9-2-2! IOW, the NFHS book as always, is convoluted and much harder to understand than OBR.

Don’t for a second EVER believe a player when it comes to the rules, especially the scoring rules!

Likewise, don’t trust coaches , and certainly not fans either! there’s a lot of folks who THINK they know the scoring rules, but in truth, its seldom true!

Until someone shows you a current reference, chances are, all they’re doing is guessing or relaying what someone else has told them.

Scorekeeper,

Top of the third. One out. Sharply hit ball to third base. Routine catch and throw to first for an out. The score was us 7 them 1. High school JV game in California. I do not know what rules the game would fall under. Thanks for the advice on giving more details. We do.

I would have scored it exactly as you did.

quote:

Originally posted by gimages:
Top of the third. One out. Sharply hit ball to third base. Routine catch and throw to first for an out. The score was us 7 them 1. High school JV game in California. I do not know what rules the game would fall under. Thanks for the advice on giving more details. We do.

I’m not quite sure what you’re asking, but hopefully I can give you some information that will be helpful.

If you go to http://www.nfhs.org/custom/member_associations/states.aspx you’ll see a list of every state and member association that’s a member of NFHS, along with their web sites.

For Ca, go to the state assn site(CIF), then choose CIF Sections/Links to see all of the different state sections. In our section, Sac Joaquin, you can go to the link that says SCHOOLS, and there’s a list of every member school in the section. There is something similar in other sections, but if not, you can always contact the section to find out if your school is a participant and member.

I can’t say this is true in every case, but if your school plays in a league and is eligible to play in the playoffs, the chances are they’re a member of the CIF and therefore use only the NFHS rule book, no matter if its Fr, JV, or V.

If you get to lookin’ around on the CIF or your section site, remember, there is a state constitution and bylaws, but also a section constitution and bylaws. Also, things that go on in one section like speed up rules, may very well not be valid for the other sections. The same goes for things like eligibility, transfers, etc..

Face it, we’re really bogged down in rules out here.

Thanks for the web site links. Looks like we are in the Central Coast Section and under NHFS rules. Thanks for great info.

gimages,

I see the CCS has gotten into Pursuing Victory with Honor. Do yourself a big favor and click on the link to find out more about it on the CCS site.

Look a the contract and the policy, then go to the PVH link. When you get there, go to eack link in succession, and read the things there. My guess is, you’ll find out a whole lot about a lot of things you either didn’t know existed, or had only heard about 2nd hand.

When I first stumbled across that stuff about 6 years ago, I was totally surprised to find out that I wasn’t the one with strange ideas at all! In fact, a lot of the things going along with PVH are thing a lot of parents here and on other similar boards, question or complain about all the time, but are blown off as being PITA parents or parents who want to somehow undermine coaches.

FI, I’ve recently been in a discussion here about how a coach should explain his/her philosophies, and taken quite a beating over it. But look at the “Expectations for Coaches”, number 8 especially.

Emphasize in all communications directed to student-athletes and parents the importance of character, ethics and sportsmanship. Coaches should hold a student and parent pre-season meeting to communicate their educational philosophy regarding athletics, academics, character, ethics and sportsmanship. At this meeting the coach should clearly define the expectation that coaches have for student and parent behavior and the repercussion of not meeting those expectations.

There are some people who think I’m nothing but a trouble maker and want to do nothing but stir the pot while “dissing” coaches. But I didn’t write that thing or anything else you’ll find on that page. So evidently there are at least a few people in our state who not only feel as I do, but even moreso!

After you’ve taken a look at that stuff, do everyone at your school a favor and share those links! If people choose not to educate themselves, that’s their prerogative, but then they stop being ignorant, and fall into the stupid or blowhard categories!