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7 replies

Courtesy Runner

StyleMismatchStyleMismatch100+ posts
Our organization has instituted a new courtesy runner rule, allowing a coach to elect to use a courtesy runner for a pitcher or catcher at any time (courtesy runner must be the last player to make an out while at bat). FYI, this league uses continous batting order, free substitution in the field, but pitchers may not go back on the mound once removed. In the application of this, does it have to be the pitcher or catcher that was on the field for the previous half inning, for the upcoming half inning, or any combination that a coach feels is to his advantage.

For instance, Johnny is the starting pitcher. Bottom of the 5th Johnny draws a walk, coach sends in a courtesy runner for Johnny, then Jimmy comes out to pitch the 6th inning. Maybe coach was bending this rule to his advantage, maybe Johnny told coach in between inning that his arm hurt, either case is plausible. Should this be allowed?

ALSO, am I correct in assuming that just because a coach announces that he's sending in a courtesy runner that the ball is still alive and in play until an umpire anounces "time out"? If so, which runner should be tagged to record an out, the one who's leaving the field or the one who's coming on the field?

Should an umpire automatically call "time" when a coach announces a courtesy runner, or must the coach specifically request time out?
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D dash_riprock1,000+ posts
At the time of the courtesy runner, Johnny is the pitcher. Projected substitutions (e.g., Jimmy will come in to pitch next inning) are not allowed. Completely legal, not bending the rules at all.

Whenever I hear "runner for the catcher" or words to that effect, I will immediately kill the ball (assuming playing action has ceased). Yes the ball is live 'til the ump calls time, but we don't need that kind of mess. Kill it & prevent it.

That said, in your situation, the runner leaving the field is the one who should be tagged out, since he has not been replaced yet.
S Snaredrum10+ posts
We've had the courtesy runner rule in effect in our league for a few years. In our case, we had to meet with the coaches to make it very specific. We now only use it for the catcher who will be F2 in the upcoming half-inning, and the replacement runner has to be whomever made the last out, either as a batter or runner. The burden is on the offensive coach who has to wait until a stoppage in play, then announce (holler) to the umpire that he is inserting the runner. Ump calls time, waits for the sub, then play resumes. If the CR is not the "last out", either the scorekeeper of the opposing bench must alert the umpire, though I'll always ask the offensive coach if the CR was the last out.

The rule does save a lot of time, espeically in the younger divisions. Your current rule sounds a little ambiguous, so the blue crew and coaches may want to get it cleare before the season gets too far.

Roger
Michael S. TaylorMichael S. Taylor1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Snaredrum:
We've had the courtesy runner rule in effect in our league for a few years. In our case, we had to meet with the coaches to make it very specific. We now only use it for the catcher who will be F2 in the upcoming half-inning, and the replacement runner has to be whomever made the last out, either as a batter or runner. The burden is on the offensive coach who has to wait until a stoppage in play, then announce (holler) to the umpire that he is inserting the runner. Ump calls time, waits for the sub, then play resumes. If the CR is not the "last out", either the scorekeeper of the opposing bench must alert the umpire, though I'll always ask the offensive coach if the CR was the last out.

The rule does save a lot of time, espeically in the younger divisions. Your current rule sounds a little ambiguous, so the blue crew and coaches may want to get it cleare before the season gets too far.

Roger



Actually Stylematch's is the way most rule sets handle the CR. Your's is a little unusual in that you are CRing for a future sub, not the current line-up position.
S Snaredrum10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:

Actually Stylematch's is the way most rule sets handle the CR. Your's is a little unusual in that you are CRing for a future sub, not the current line-up position.


Unusual? OMG I know! We have a lot of stuff like this that I'll be tossing into the forum every now and then so I don't get messed up at a HS or USSSA game one day. Our rule just says that the team on offense may use a CR at any time for their F2 when he gets on base. And that the player replaced must be the catcher in the upcoming half inning.

We're also on time limits. Last year, we did have times where the CR would come in, future F2 would go out, then the coach changes his mind just as the D takes the field... "Wait come back Junior! Steve is catching ths inning! Give him your equipment! Ooops, broke the helmet strap. Who has the lefty catcher's mitt?" Many minutes later, we get the catcher. Our rule was close to Stylematch's, but the coach's council asked for the change. I'm hoping it works out.
Michael S. TaylorMichael S. Taylor1,000+ posts
Your case of the coach changing his mind is why most places don't allow a future sub in the CR scene. The current catcher is the one that gets the CR and that's it. If the coach decides to change the next inning that's his option. The way you have it now he can say he is changing catchers, put in a speedy guy for a slow kid, then "change " his mind and put the regular catcher back where he was. This is known as working a rule and allows for abuse by the coach.
S Snaredrum10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
Your case of the coach changing his mind is why most places don't allow a future sub in the CR scene. The current catcher is the one that gets the CR and that's it. If the coach decides to change the next inning that's his option. The way you have it now he can say he is changing catchers, put in a speedy guy for a slow kid, then "change " his mind and put the regular catcher back where he was. This is known as working a rule and allows for abuse by the coach.

I totally agree. I went to the Coaches Meeting last night (I go every year), and told them this. I also mentioned that if that happened on my field, the speedy CR is going to be the catcher, period. My chief backed me up (he thought the same thing about the rule, but got overruled by "the committee"). I'm a little worried that this rule is going to be abused down the line in the younger divisions with younger or newbie umpires. I guess we'll see...

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