Crazy pitching mechanics article

I'm not feeling this. You would have to totally change the balk rules or stealing would be the easiest thing to do.

The main reason I am not feeling this is because if you look the part he changed is not the part that puts the stress on your arm. Just because you face the catcher doesn't take stress off your arm when you throw the ball. You can still have a guy with a terrible arm slot with an upright body.

Or am I missing something????

I don't know if you are or not. And I sure don't know what the pitchers would do from the stretch. I just thought that it was out-there enough that its worth a read.

I have issues with his head and where it winds up in reference to the strike zone.

Second, I see the same stress on the elbow that any other overhand throw creates.

Finally a quality picture of the Marshall method. They are right, it's different. What does bother me is the cultish way his followers respond; I would imagine some cult leaders would be interested in his methods.

It looks like he should be behind an L-screen...

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
I'm not feeling this. You would have to totally change the balk rules or stealing would be the easiest thing to do.

The main reason I am not feeling this is because if you look the part he changed is not the part that puts the stress on your arm. Just because you face the catcher doesn't take stress off your arm when you throw the ball. You can still have a guy with a terrible arm slot with an upright body.

First, stealing isn't as easy as you think. In fact it's harder than with a pitcher who goes from the Set position because you have a shorter move to 1B.

Second, the key to Marshall's ideas is the idea of powerful pronation. That is what protects the elbow.

Third, while there is scap loading, there is no sign of an Inverted W, so there should be less stress placed on the shoulders.

Fourth, the concerns I have with what I see in the video are...

1. The large head jerk.
2. The lesser degree of hip/shoulder separation and the possible negative impact on velocity.

It looks like the breaking pitches are OK, but the fastball looks slow and flat.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
It looks like the breaking pitches are OK, but the fastball looks slow and flat.

Agreed.

The curve and screwball (especially the one in the front high speed view) are nasty but the fastball comes in on a rail.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
It looks like the breaking pitches are OK, but the fastball looks slow and flat.

It really does. Maybe this is one of his students that is just learning, but if he throws that fat pitch to me it just might come right back at him, lol

To Marshall's credit though, the article does claim that many of his pitchers improve their velocity, whether they actually do or not we really don't know.

The one summer league I played for had an Assistant Coach who lived and breathed Marshall's teachings, so much so that he printed off his ebook and gave a copy to a bunch of us Pitcher's. None of us really took to much out of it, but then again considering who gave us the copy of the book I'm sure didn't help either. We couldn't get over how much the Assistant bought into and preached Marshall's techniques.

Really makes you wonder

It seems to me that the throwing motion simply moves the stress from the UCL to the tricep tendon. (In other words, it reduces or eliminates internal rotation of the humerus and replaces it with extension of the elbow.) And that tells me that the technique may not be safe for young kids with open growth plates. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen any video of young kids using Marshall's technique (not that there is much video of ANYONE using Marshall's technique floating around). And maybe that's why it's fairly common to hear about older pitchers who use Marshall's technique but are not quite there yet (i.e. because they got a late start). If this is the case, then that is an inherent flaw that will prevent pitchers from making it to "the bigs".

But I ain't no doctor so someone correct me if I'm wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by thepainguy:
Second, the key to Marshall's ideas is the idea of powerful pronation. That is what protects the elbow.

Third, while there is scap loading, there is no sign of an Inverted W, so there should be less stress placed on the shoulders.

Fourth, the concerns I have with what I see in the video are...

1. The large head jerk.
2. The lesser degree of hip/shoulder separation and the possible negative impact on velocity.

Sorry if I missed something here, but isn't an "inverted W" just an M?
From the video, it appears to me rather than protecting the shoulder, this approach actually internally rotates the humerous, and specifically the biceps tendon, into a more dangerous position with regards to repetitive contact with the acromion.
I'm with Deemax, this guy needs a L screen. LOL

quote:

Originally posted by spizzlepop:
Sorry if I missed something here, but isn't an "inverted W" just an M?
From the video, it appears to me rather than protecting the shoulder, this approach actually internally rotates the humerous, and specifically the biceps tendon, into a more dangerous position with regards to repetitive contact with the acromion.
I'm with Deemax, this guy needs a L screen. LOL

First, "Inverted W" is someone else's term, not mine. Yes, it is better described as an "M".

Second, there's no risk of Acromial impingement due to the rapid internal rotation because the elbow always stays below the level of the shoulders (even during the scap loading).

quote:

Originally posted by Roger Tomas:
It seems to me that the throwing motion simply moves the stress from the UCL to the tricep tendon. (In other words, it reduces or eliminates internal rotation of the humerus and replaces it with extension of the elbow.) And that tells me that the technique may not be safe for young kids with open growth plates. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen any video of young kids using Marshall's technique (not that there is much video of ANYONE using Marshall's technique floating around). And maybe that's why it's fairly common to hear about older pitchers who use Marshall's technique but are not quite there yet (i.e. because they got a late start). If this is the case, then that is an inherent flaw that will prevent pitchers from making it to "the bigs".

First, Marshall's mechanics do shift the load to a muscle, but to the Pronator Teres rather than the Triceps.

Second, people who use the traditional pitching motion get virtually no velocity from the internal rotation of the PAS upper arm. Instead, it comes from the rapid extension and deceleration of the elbow. Marshall's pitchers do get more benefit from internal rotation, but not by a huge amount (and probably not as much as he claims).

Third, there's no reason why Marshall's ideas would be any more dangerous for youngsters than the traditional pitching motion. That's why Marshall doesn't think that anyone younger than 13 should pitch competitively, regardless of whether they use his or traditional mechanics. Pitching, regardless of the mechanics, can be hard on young arms, which is why moderation is important through the age of 16 or 17.

This dosnt sound like the best way to promote your star pupil

quote:

(Yahoo sports) Jeff Sparks, 35, temples graying, scowling like Billy Bob Thornton, is Mike Marshall's greatest student and greatest success. Right now, he sells home and garden products at Lowe's.

quote:

(Yahoo sports) In March, Sparks went to the Detroit Tigers tryout camp for the sixth consecutive year. The scout's radar gun had him at 83 mph. He's certain it was slow and thinks he can top out in the high 80s

Pain,
When I look at the follow through, I'm seeing the elbow (and humerus) in a superior plane to the shoulder, and that's with end range pronation.

I don't care if it looks funny, but if the "Doctor" (a title best reserved for M.D.s IMO) did all this research back in the 70's before modern diagnostic tools were available, why wouldn't he be interested in updating his work now?

spizzlepop,

That's a great point, and to be honest that thought never even crossed my mind. I just figured that he would of kept up with the advances in diagnostic tools.

quote:

Originally posted by spizzlepop:
Pain, When I look at the follow through, I'm seeing the elbow (and humerus) in a superior plane to the shoulder, and that's with end range pronation.

The pitcher's shoulders are steeply tilted (ala Sandy Koufax). IOW, he's leaning over toward 1B, which is what you have to do if you throw from a very high arm slot.

His elbow stays below the level of the shoulders (a line drawn across the top of the Acromial processes) which is all that matters.

quote:

Originally posted by spizzlepop:
I don't care if it looks funny, but if the "Doctor" (a title best reserved for M.D.s IMO) did all this research back in the 70's before modern diagnostic tools were available, why wouldn't he be interested in updating his work now?

What are you referring to?

Dee Max,

hahaha, good points