Crowding the Plate

A good pitcher doesn't care where the hitter is... he's going down.

Most youth  hitters that  crowd the plate can't even hit the pitch down the middle. No really good hitter really crowds the plate.

You don't have to go really inside corner,   just throw it slightly inside the middle of the plate and they will be tied up. I'm crowding the Plate is a mechanical flaw and I have backed up quite a few kids who immediately hit better. Crowding makes the middle the new inside corner. 

If a batter can stand close to the plate and really hit the inside pitch he has earned his right to stand there. 

I'm a fan of getting up on he plate.  Not "crowding" it, but getting your toes as near to the line in the batter box that will allow.  Here's a few reasons.  1.) most pitchers, to include Varsity pitchers have a tough time commanding an inside pitch. It's human nature not to throw that close to another person. [note I said most, this does not apply to the collegiate prospect commanding an 89 mph fastball where ever and when ever he wants]. So get up on the plate and take away the inside pitch from those who can't throw it.  2.) The "middle-in" now becomes the "inside pitch". Every hitter, including underdeveloped hitters, can hit an inside pitch.  [man, Johnny sure does pull a lot.].  3.) The outside black, where most "average" HS and youth pitchers live becomes a pitch you can drive.  4.) The outside pitch that is questionable and may be called a strike can now be driven the other way or fouled off.  

This is all based on my experience that most average HS and youth pitchers cannot throw a strike right under a hitters hands with consistency (most).  For this reason, I have always taught my pitchers (in the past) to work on commanding an inside fastball.  And my hitters to focus on the "middle-away" pitch, because that is what they are going to see most of the time.  Again, anyone can pull an inside pitch. And a pitcher that can command and inside fastball for a strike early in the game will own the plate.  

SultanofSwat posted:

A good pitcher doesn't care where the hitter is... he's going down.

  Interwebs fist-bump!

bballdad2016 posted:

I'm a fan of getting up on he plate.  Not "crowding" it, but getting your toes as near to the line in the batter box that will allow.  Here's a few reasons.  1.) most pitchers, to include Varsity pitchers have a tough time commanding an inside pitch. It's human nature not to throw that close to another person. [note I said most, this does not apply to the collegiate prospect commanding an 89 mph fastball where ever and when ever he wants]. So get up on the plate and take away the inside pitch from those who can't throw it.  2.) The "middle-in" now becomes the "inside pitch". Every hitter, including underdeveloped hitters, can hit an inside pitch.  [man, Johnny sure does pull a lot.].  3.) The outside black, where most "average" HS and youth pitchers live becomes a pitch you can drive.  4.) The outside pitch that is questionable and may be called a strike can now be driven the other way or fouled off.  

This is all based on my experience that most average HS and youth pitchers cannot throw a strike right under a hitters hands with consistency (most).  For this reason, I have always taught my pitchers (in the past) to work on commanding an inside fastball.  And my hitters to focus on the "middle-away" pitch, because that is what they are going to see most of the time.  Again, anyone can pull an inside pitch. And a pitcher that can command and inside fastball for a strike early in the game will own the plate.  

I agree with these things.    The whole outside corner is now middle of the plate thing is disconcerting to pitcher-centric folks.    

If a guy can hit inside well, a la, Barry Bonds, should a pitcher not tell him, "Fine.  But it will be a legit inside pitch that I missed on, and not one that is middle of the plate".

 I get that it is a strategy to psychologically  intimidate the pitcher, but at the same time, shouldn't the pitcher utilize his psychological warfare tools?

Teaching Elder posted:

bballdad2016 posted:

I'm a fan of getting up on he plate.  Not "crowding" it, but getting your toes as near to the line in the batter box that will allow.  Here's a few reasons.  1.) most pitchers, to include Varsity pitchers have a tough time commanding an inside pitch. It's human nature not to throw that close to another person. [note I said most, this does not apply to the collegiate prospect commanding an 89 mph fastball where ever and when ever he wants]. So get up on the plate and take away the inside pitch from those who can't throw it.  2.) The "middle-in" now becomes the "inside pitch". Every hitter, including underdeveloped hitters, can hit an inside pitch.  [man, Johnny sure does pull a lot.].  3.) The outside black, where most "average" HS and youth pitchers live becomes a pitch you can drive.  4.) The outside pitch that is questionable and may be called a strike can now be driven the other way or fouled off.  

This is all based on my experience that most average HS and youth pitchers cannot throw a strike right under a hitters hands with consistency (most).  For this reason, I have always taught my pitchers (in the past) to work on commanding an inside fastball.  And my hitters to focus on the "middle-away" pitch, because that is what they are going to see most of the time.  Again, anyone can pull an inside pitch. And a pitcher that can command and inside fastball for a strike early in the game will own the plate.  

I agree with these things.    The whole outside corner is now middle of the plate thing is disconcerting to pitcher-centric folks.    

If a guy can hit inside well, a la, Barry Bonds, should a pitcher not tell him, "Fine.  But it will be a legit inside pitch that I missed on, and not one that is middle of the plate".

 I get that it is a strategy to psychologically  intimidate the pitcher, but at the same time, shouldn't the pitcher utilize his psychological warfare tools?

Yes, I agree that the pitcher should say "fine, but it will be a legit inside pitch."  And that's when you, as a hitter, give him that space.  Provided he can put it there.  I'm thinking more of the pitcher that won't throw inside, consistently, no matter where you stand.  Show me a pitcher that can paint the inside black with consistency and I'll give him the space.  Show me a pitcher that is afraid to throw it in there (most) and I'm up on the plate. 

Teaching Elder posted:

This topic will divide us between pitcher- centric and hitter- centric camps and maybe old-school vs new- school, but what are your feelings?

Mine?  1) You look like a storm trooper with your little evosheild gear on.  Take it off, if you want to crowd the plate.  2) Pitchers have a job to do too.  Inner- half is yours.  Outer is the pitcher's.  Back off, or don't whine about getting hit.  3) If you've got a boat oar that reaches almost into the dugout, why is it you think you have a right to crowd too?   4)  Chin Music is acceptable.  Pitcher has a job to do and it isn't throwing you bp.  5)  if you crowd the plate and get hit, don't come in and tell the pitcher that you expect retaliation.  You got what you deserved. 6)  "Wear" a slow curve and you're going to wear a fastball next time in the ribs. 7)  You want to intimidate the pitcher by crowding the plate. He has every right to intimidate you by throwing high and tight. 

That's all for now. 

 

1) You look like a storm trooper with your little evosheild gear on. Take it off, if you want to crowd the plate. - OK, then pitcher should remove cup.  Catcher should remove protective gear.  This comment of yours is just plain silly

2) Pitchers have a job to do too. Inner- half is yours. Outer is the pitcher's. Back off, or don't whine about getting hit. - Yep, and hitters have a job to do too.  The plate is owned by both.  The entire plate.  Don't whine about hitters crowding it.  Don't expect a hitter to "give" you the outer half and I won't expect a pitcher to concede the inner half.

3) If you've got a boat oar that reaches almost into the dugout, why is it you think you have a right to crowd too? - If the hitter is swinging a boat oar, blow a fast ball by him.  If your pitcher can't do that against a hitter with a boat oar, get him some Umbro shorts and introduce him to the soccer coach.

4) Chin Music is acceptable. Pitcher has a job to do and it isn't throwing you bp. - Agree with you.  Hitter has a job to do too, and it isn't strike out.

5) if you crowd the plate and get hit, don't come in and tell the pitcher that you expect retaliation. You got what you deserved. - Agree with you.

6) "Wear" a slow curve and you're going to wear a fastball next time in the ribs. - Huh?!?  If a pitcher can't control a slow curve and plunks that batter (who willingly allows it to), that's really on the pitcher.  Guess if pitcher "hangs" one, then the batter should just not swing since that wasn't what the pitcher wanted?  Don't blame the hitter if the pitcher screws up.  It's not the hitters job to let the pitcher off the hook any more than it's the pitchers job to throw a hittable pitch on 0-2 count.  Win the battle.

7) You want to intimidate the pitcher by crowding the plate. He has every right to intimidate you by throwing high and tight. - Agree with you

Recently, 2018 played a team and their strategy was to crowd the plate, show bunt and pull back then swing.  The third batter showed bunt and got hit with 90+ , broke his hand... they awarded first base.  The substitute player at 1st was hit square in the back with a pick off attempt and he came out as well .   You want to play bush league, ok fine, we'll play bush league.  

Administrator Note:

Everybody please back off the macho posturing.

We're not going to allow this thread to degenerate into a contest of who can sound tougher or more "old school" than everyone else.

And we're not going to provide a forum for advocating behaviors that should get players ejected from games the way it is officiated in high school today.

 

Yes, I agree that the pitcher should say "fine, but it will be a legit inside pitch."  And that's when you, as a hitter, give him that space.  Provided he can put it there.  I'm thinking more of the pitcher that won't throw inside, consistently, no matter where you stand.  Show me a pitcher that can paint the inside black with consistency and I'll give him the space.  Show me a pitcher that is afraid to throw it in there (most) and I'm up on the plate. 

Gotcha.   

Youth strike zone is often two balls off the plate on the outside.  This necessitates kids getting up on the plate.  Hoping the zone gets "truer" in High School.

bballdad2016 posted:

I'm a fan of getting up on he plate.  Not "crowding" it, but getting your toes as near to the line in the batter box that will allow.  Here's a few reasons.  1.) most pitchers, to include Varsity pitchers have a tough time commanding an inside pitch. It's human nature not to throw that close to another person. [note I said most, this does not apply to the collegiate prospect commanding an 89 mph fastball where ever and when ever he wants]. So get up on the plate and take away the inside pitch from those who can't throw it.  2.) The "middle-in" now becomes the "inside pitch". Every hitter, including underdeveloped hitters, can hit an inside pitch.  [man, Johnny sure does pull a lot.].  3.) The outside black, where most "average" HS and youth pitchers live becomes a pitch you can drive.  4.) The outside pitch that is questionable and may be called a strike can now be driven the other way or fouled off.  

This is all based on my experience that most average HS and youth pitchers cannot throw a strike right under a hitters hands with consistency (most).  For this reason, I have always taught my pitchers (in the past) to work on commanding an inside fastball.  And my hitters to focus on the "middle-away" pitch, because that is what they are going to see most of the time.  Again, anyone can pull an inside pitch. And a pitcher that can command and inside fastball for a strike early in the game will own the plate.  

IMO that is not really good Coaching considering Player developement. It does get wins, no arguing about that but as that hitter moves up the ladder better pitchers will eat him up inside.

of course then the batter can still back up but I prefer teaching a stance that is best for covering the whole plate and driving the ball on both sides of the plate and not a stance that increases the Chance of walks and hit by pitches.

and I disagree that anyone can pull a good inside pitch. even the pull hitters usually pull better at pitches over the middle, a pitch that is really inside and has some velocity is really hard to hit well.

of course if a hitter can really crowd the plate and still turn on the inside pitch it makes sense to stand Close but 9 out of 10 Kids I have seen that crowd the plate can't hit inside pitches fair with any authority. too far away is not good either but almost all MLB hitters are at least about a plate width away from the inside Corner with their toes.

Swampboy posted:

Administrator Note:

Everybody please back off the macho posturing.

We're not going to allow this thread to degenerate into a contest of who can sound tougher or more "old school" than everyone else.

And we're not going to provide a forum for advocating behaviors that should get players ejected from games the way it is officiated in high school today.

Swampboy,  I was not advocating the behavior merely stating what happened in the game.   We don't teach being PC correct in my house, it's more of the sheep and wolf approach.  But your point is well taken. 

Youth strike zone is often two balls off the plate on the outside.  This necessitates kids getting up on the plate.  Hoping the zone gets "truer" in High School.

And the bats are much shorter.  Just had this conversation with my 10yo (he mentioned he was swinging at some outside pitches due to umpire calling strikes off the plate).  Explained to him the phase "pick your poison" - you can stay in the middle of the box but should not try to hit strikes on the outside of the plate (weak grounders) or you can toe the line but will have problems with the inside pitch.  Told him he probably needed to toe the line for the time being, but as pitchers got better, would have to start thinking about backing off.

Saw several HBP's denied this high school season with kids crowding the plate - and sometimes leaning in.  Pretty sure I saw one called for a strike.  Luckily nobody got hurt.

I will clarify, that I would not really advocate throwing inside with really young pitchers, LL and such.    LL pitchers can't command a fastball well enough to justify trying to hit the inside part of the plate.  Pitches can get away and kids get hurt.  

Upper levels, go in to induce weaker swings if you can.

HS.  Well, I might get into trouble if I go much further.  However, draft position and scholarships are starting to get into play here.  It shouldn't be so for high school aged kids, but career matters can be at play.  Lots of money, whether scholarship or salaries and signing bonuses.  

I think pitchers should be given back the right to throw inside.  Even MLB has gone soft.  When a batter crowds the plate he's often looking to get a psychological advantage.  My son will confirm that (he's a pitcher).  The message is, "Don't come in off the plate or I'll take my base if it's one I find convenient to wear.   Furthermore, just skip coming inside altogether, as it might get away from you, and then I'll take my base, the ump will warn you."

Teaching Elder posted:

I will clarify, that I would not really advocate throwing inside with really young pitchers, LL and such.    LL pitchers can't command a fastball well enough to justify trying to hit the inside part of the plate.  Pitches can get away and kids get hurt.  

Upper levels, go in to induce weaker swings if you can.

HS.  Well, I might get into trouble if I go much further.  However, draft position and scholarships are starting to get into play here.  It shouldn't be so for high school aged kids, but career matters can be at play.  Lots of money, whether scholarship or salaries and signing bonuses.  

I think pitchers should be given back the right to throw inside.  Even MLB has gone soft.  When a batter crowds the plate he's often looking to get a psychological advantage.  My son will confirm that (he's a pitcher).  The message is, "Don't come in off the plate or I'll take my base if it's one I find convenient to wear.   Furthermore, just skip coming inside altogether, as it might get away from you, and then I'll take my base, the ump will warn you."

Elder, your point concerning LL pitchers is where it all starts.  When a pitcher doesn't learn to throw inside, he is giving away half of his strike zone due to fear or lack of confidence.  This is a bad habit that may follow them for years.  Do I think LL (or youth) pitchers need to constantly throw inside, nope.  But they do need to practice it, throw it every now and again, and build confidence that they can hit their locations. 

"I think pitchers should be given back the right to throw inside" - A pitcher had to earn that, in my mind.  If a pitcher can paint the inside black with consistency, a hitter will not put his toes to the line.

"Furthermore, just skip coming inside altogether, as it might get away from you, and then I'll take my base, the ump will warn you" - This is why a pitcher needs to work on the inside pitch and gain confidence that he can hit his spots.  If you give away half of your strike zone, the hitter will put his toes to the line. 

In short, my theory it to have the hitter adjust his stance in the box, relative to the pitchers zone combined with the umpires calls.  Again, most "average" HS and Youth pitchers wont throw inside with consistency due to the fear of giving up a free base.

Swampboy posted:

Administrator Note:

Everybody please back off the macho posturing.

We're not going to allow this thread to degenerate into a contest of who can sound tougher or more "old school" than everyone else.

And we're not going to provide a forum for advocating behaviors that should get players ejected from games the way it is officiated in high school today.

Swampboy - I deleted my post in case you were referring to me.  I read a lot about how you should work with your son so he is able to hit locations at the younger age.  Well I did.  Last summer the person keeping score came up to us and said he is averaging over 70 percent strikes as a 11u.  I believe if a kid an throw the pitch with confidence he should be able to throw it.  I was not bolstering or moving towards getting players thrown out of games.  It is the way baseball was meant to be played and should be played.

As a high school umpire, my perspective on the issue:

The batter may take any legal stance he chooses. It is possible for parts of the body of a batter in a legal stance to be over the plate or even in the strike zone.

For every batter, I make a mental note of where his stance puts him in relation to the plate. Batters are not awarded first base when they "permit" a pitch to hit them: crowding the plate is a conscious choice made by the batter, and it is a factor I consider in deciding whether a hit batsman permitted the pitch to strike him. I expect batters who crowd the plate to have better pitch evasion skills than most hitters.

The pitcher is allowed to pitch to the entire plate, and I endeavor to call the strike zone as defined by the rules the same on both corners, regardless of where the batter is standing. 

I don't expect a pitcher to have finer control on the inside corner than the outside corner, but I do expect them to understand their limitations.

When deciding whether a pitcher deliberately threw at or close to a batter (BTW, deliberate "chin music" warrants ejection even if the pitch doesn't hit the batter), I consider the totality of circumstances: everything that has happened so far in the game, the control previously exhibited by the pitcher, the immediate reactions of all participants, and any evidence of satisfaction with the outcome of a pitch that hits or drops a batter. 

I frequently see batters attempt to take away the inside corner by crowding the plate.

Weaker pitchers acquiesce to this tactic by pitching away.

Better pitchers counter by establishing the inside corner, and do so without anyone getting hit or knocked down.

It's part of the natural rhythm of the game.

I almost never see deliberate attempts by high school pitchers to hit or throw close to batters. 

Swampboy posted:

 

I frequently see batters attempt to take away the inside corner by crowding the plate.

Weaker pitchers acquiesce to this tactic by pitching away.

Better pitchers counter by establishing the inside corner, and do so without anyone getting hit or knocked down.

It's part of the natural rhythm of the game.

I almost never see deliberate attempts by high school pitchers to hit or throw close to batters. 

Well said. 

Swampboy:   What do you do when the dugout cheers, "way to line 'Im up" when a ball goes off the pitcher's leg?  

Swampboy posted:

As a high school umpire, my perspective on the issue:

The batter may take any legal stance he chooses. It is possible for parts of the body of a batter in a legal stance to be over the plate or even in the strike zone.

For every batter, I make a mental note of where his stance puts him in relation to the plate. Batters are not awarded first base when they "permit" a pitch to hit them: crowding the plate is a conscious choice made by the batter, and it is a factor I consider in deciding whether a hit batsman permitted the pitch to strike him. I expect batters who crowd the plate to have better pitch evasion skills than most hitters.

The pitcher is allowed to pitch to the entire plate, and I endeavor to call the strike zone as defined by the rules the same on both corners, regardless of where the batter is standing. 

I don't expect a pitcher to have finer control on the inside corner than the outside corner, but I do expect them to understand their limitations.

When deciding whether a pitcher deliberately threw at or close to a batter (BTW, deliberate "chin music" warrants ejection even if the pitch doesn't hit the batter), I consider the totality of circumstances: everything that has happened so far in the game, the control previously exhibited by the pitcher, the immediate reactions of all participants, and any evidence of satisfaction with the outcome of a pitch that hits or drops a batter. 

I frequently see batters attempt to take away the inside corner by crowding the plate.

Weaker pitchers acquiesce to this tactic by pitching away.

Better pitchers counter by establishing the inside corner, and do so without anyone getting hit or knocked down.

It's part of the natural rhythm of the game.

I almost never see deliberate attempts by high school pitchers to hit or throw close to batters. 

Swampboy - gotcha.  I do not teach to hit the batter.  I just want him to be confident that he can throw where ever he wants to on the plate.  It makes you work on location.  His idea of chin music is throwing inside just under the hands - still trying to get a strike call - but the batter that crowds the plate will jump back out of the way.  He will make it hard for the hitter to hit the ball - jamming the batter high and inside.  So the idea of chin music for him is not throwing anywhere near the chin. 

Teaching Elder posted:

Swampboy:   What do you do when the dugout cheers, "way to line 'Im up" when a ball goes off the pitcher's leg?  

It's appropriate for teammates to cheer the solid bat contact and the batter's successful attempt to reach base.

It's not permitted to celebrate an injury or to taunt an opponent.

It's not hard to tell the difference.  

Appropriate cheering makes a nearly instantaneous transition to concern as soon as it's apparent a fellow competitor may have been injured.

Alanj posted:

 His idea of chin music is throwing inside just under the hands - still trying to get a strike call - but the batter that crowds the plate will jump back out of the way. 

And my job is to track that pitch all the way in and call it a strike regardless of the batter's actions.

I hear the HBP will be a POE next year for FED - specifically as it relates to "freezing the ball" (IOW: letting it hit you).  Seems the pendulum swung too far in the batters favor the last time this particular rule was adjusted.  College games have the emphasis this year - I got pointed at a few videos, lost the link though.  Suffice to say it'll make some conversations with the offended team "interesting".

Teaching Elder posted:

This topic will divide us between pitcher- centric and hitter- centric camps and maybe old-school vs new- school, but what are your feelings?

Mine?  1) You look like a storm trooper with your little evosheild gear on.  Take it off, if you want to crowd the plate.  2) Pitchers have a job to do too.  Inner- half is yours.  Outer is the pitcher's.  Back off, or don't whine about getting hit.  3) If you've got a boat oar that reaches almost into the dugout, why is it you think you have a right to crowd too?   4)  Chin Music is acceptable.  Pitcher has a job to do and it isn't throwing you bp.  5)  if you crowd the plate and get hit, don't come in and tell the pitcher that you expect retaliation.  You got what you deserved. 6)  "Wear" a slow curve and you're going to wear a fastball next time in the ribs. 7)  You want to intimidate the pitcher by crowding the plate. He has every right to intimidate you by throwing high and tight. 

That's all for now. 

 

It's a battle of skill and will at the plate. There's isn't a right and a wrong. It's about who is more skilled and mentally tougher. Take two talented players and the battle swings back and forth at bat to at bat.

Elbow guards have become standard equipment. Take a 90+ fastball on the arm before you disagree. They aren't about taking the inside of the plate. They're about being able to play after getting drilled regardless of where in the box.

If a pitcher can't throw a curve well enough to get near the plate, tough. He should feel better he didn't hang it over the plate and the hitter lost it in the bleacher seats.

As for chin music, not until pro ball. Most pitchers don't have good enough command. Coming inside and chin music are not the same thing. How would you feel as a coach if you taught kids without great command to serve up chin music and they drilled a hitter in the head?

As far as the guards they have a couple of negative consequences.  1) it allows the hitter to feel a little TOO comfortable at the plate.  2)  some guys will purposely take a ball off of an elbow guard. 

As far as the curveball fastball matter.  Pitchers can accept that a poorly thrown curve got mashed.  The problem is the guy who can't seem to move to avoid a slow curve, but has little trouble getting out of the way of a good fastball.  Pitcher's know what's up.   And pitcher's, if they are going to hit you, at least want to get their money's worth.  Conveniently fail to get out of the way of the curve, and the pitcher is likely going to want his change back later.  There are no free lunches. 

I don't believe too many high school and college pitchers want to put runners on base. 

Dennis Eckersley was talking about hitting batters the other day. He said as a reliever he would have to be crazy to throw at hitters and put them on base. He said as a starter a handful of times the scenario (two outs, no one on) fit the situation for wanting to hit a certain player. He said you can't let your emotions get in the way of winning the game.

RJM posted:

I don't believe too many high school and college pitchers want to put runners on base. 

Dennis Eckersley was talking about hitting batters the other day. He said as a reliever he would have to be crazy to throw at hitters and put them on base. He said as a starter a handful of times the scenario (two outs, no one on) fit the situation for wanting to hit a certain player. He said you can't let your emotions get in the way of winning the game.

I think in many ways you are correct. At the same time there's the whole "retaliation" thing.  I think plunking can get pretty petty at times.  

This matter sure has a lot of various angles, facets and nuances doesn't it?

Edit:  I agree with you that one does not really WANT to see a guy writhing on the ground seriously hurt. 

We are playing a team this week that has a kid who's basically a hbp specialist. He crowds the plate and leans in consistently. In the 1st game of the series, he got hit 3 times. It was actually 4, but the umpire ruled he leaned in and had to stay at the plate during one instance. I would argue he leaned in all 4 times. In our next game, he got hit twice. That is a very frustrating situation as a pitcher because the kid gets away with it 75% of the time. That makes for a pretty good OBP.  

Did he look like a mannequin for evoshield? 

Teaching Elder posted:

As far as the guards they have a couple of negative consequences.  1) it allows the hitter to feel a little TOO comfortable at the plate.  2)  some guys will purposely take a ball off of an elbow guard. 

My kid bats opposite of what he throws, so his throwing elbow is facing the pitcher.  He's been wearing an elbow guard since he was ten to protect his throwing elbow.  Not for comfort or to gain an advantage or to try and get hit there.  Plain and simple, to protect himself from injury that could prevent him from being able to play.

To the best of my recollection, he's been hit three times in 7 years on the guard.  Two of the three times were mid 80+.

Teaching Elder posted:

Did he look like a mannequin for evoshield? 

I can't remember if he had an elbow shield or not. I'll have to pay closer attention tonight.

Nuke83 posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

As far as the guards they have a couple of negative consequences.  1) it allows the hitter to feel a little TOO comfortable at the plate.  2)  some guys will purposely take a ball off of an elbow guard. 

My kid bats opposite of what he throws, so his throwing elbow is facing the pitcher.  He's been wearing an elbow guard since he was ten to protect his throwing elbow.  Not for comfort or to gain an advantage or to try and get hit there.  Plain and simple, to protect himself from injury that could prevent him from being able to play.

To the best of my recollection, he's been hit three times in 7 years on the guard.  Two of the three times were mid 80+.

I can understand that, and think there is room for compromise.  

Proposed rule change:  "If a pitched ball strikes any part of the batter's body, excluding the head, which is covered by a protective device, that batter is not awarded a base, rather a ball shall be called if the pitched ball struck the batter's body in an area deemed by the umpire to be not inside the strike zone.  If the batter is struck any place on the body outside of the strike zone with a three ball count, he shall be awarded first base as in any other ball four scenario."

Teaching Elder posted:

Nuke83 posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

As far as the guards they have a couple of negative consequences.  1) it allows the hitter to feel a little TOO comfortable at the plate.  2)  some guys will purposely take a ball off of an elbow guard. 

My kid bats opposite of what he throws, so his throwing elbow is facing the pitcher.  He's been wearing an elbow guard since he was ten to protect his throwing elbow.  Not for comfort or to gain an advantage or to try and get hit there.  Plain and simple, to protect himself from injury that could prevent him from being able to play.

To the best of my recollection, he's been hit three times in 7 years on the guard.  Two of the three times were mid 80+.

I can understand that, and think there is room for compromise.  

Proposed rule change:  "If a pitched ball strikes any part of the batter's body, excluding the head, which is covered by a protective device, that batter is not awarded a base, rather a ball shall be called if the pitched ball struck the batter's body in an area deemed by the umpire to be not inside the strike zone.  If the batter is struck any place on the body outside of the strike zone with a three ball count, he shall be awarded first base as in any other ball four scenario."

Wait, I have to check the calendar.

Hmm, it's April 28th, not April 1st . . . Wait, you're serious?!? So, other than when the batter gets beaned in the head, a hit batter would be the same as any other ball?!? Wow, carte blanche for pitchers to throw at hitters, so long as they don't hit them in the head. 

P.S. -- A compromise is when both sides give something . . . in your proposed rule change, what is the "give" or concession from the pitcher's side? Is it that beanings still count as a HBP? 

Usually, in my experience, a hitter who crowds the plate isn't doing it to intimidate anyone. He is doing it because he doesn't like to hit an outside strike. He turns the outside strike into a middle strike. We combat this by changing speeds and throwing fast balls in. Usually don't strike this batter out but we either fist him with an inside fast ball or get him to miss hit off speed. 

As far as getting young pitchers comfortable enough to throw inside, we usually put someone or something in the batters box when we throw flat ground. Can't leave till you spot 3 inside fast balls. You would be surprised how dialed in kids can get.

For years my 2017 took occasional lessons with a guy who was adamant about wanting him off the plate.  The drill was to lay the bat out on approaching the plate so that the end reached the outside of the plate.    So as of this year, that guy is retired and 2017's only hitting instruction is coming from his HS coaches.  I don't know if they advocate it or he decided on his own but this year he's much closer to the plate - not hanging over it but toes almost to the inside line of the box.  I also don't know if there's any causation or just correlation but he's having a lot of success - hitting for MUCH higher average than last year.  It does seem like he has an easier time getting bunts down fair from where he is now; and he'll turn on inside pitches frequently. He used to be more of an oppo hitter. Now if you look at his spray charts, the great majority of his hits are to the pull side,  but he makes a lot of outs to CF.  I think one thing that's happening is that what used to be a ground ball to SS is finding the 5-6 hole, while some fly balls that used to find the gaps are getting caught by CF.

As for the folderol above,  last I heard the rules say the batter takes his position in the batter's box.  Simple.

Coach is likely advocating it.  Seems to be the thing right now.    I think it is probably effective.  Especially since a lot of high school pitchers can't deal well with it.  

Additionally,  I loath this Android spell check thing.  Took WAY too long to type a simple message.  

I'm a bit surprised this hasn't come up yet...  the situational count aspect... 

HS V level...  We teach most of our hitters to get closer to the plate when behind in the count with two strikes.  This, to some extent, takes away some of the advantage that the pitcher now has.   When ahead, P is more likely to nibble further away to get hitter to chase.  Hitter closer to the plate now knows that a pitch that looks too far out IS too far out.  He can be aggressive with an expanded zone but not chase something clearly off the plate.  Also, HS P is less likely to come in when ahead with two strikes and even more afraid to hit batter when that hitter is closer to the plate.  So, now, P is less likely to come in and less effective going away.  Pendulum swings back toward hitter's advantage.  There is a give and take with everything.  Yes, if P can execute the good inside pitch, this is the down side to the approach.  We do work quite a bit on yanking that pitch so you can get another.

Son's college coaches have taken the same approach.  One took it to an extreme.  Team led league in HBP by a large margin.