Right now there are three main leagues in the Dallas Area, BBI, Lonestar, and Premier. Does anyone else think this is dilluting the areas teams talent too much?
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Coach Q, I don't believe there is a "Premeire League". If there is, it is new. The AABC sanctioned leagues in the N. Tx area last year were:
* BBI
* Lone Star
* Collegiate league
* North Texas (McKinney)
However, I agree that at 15 and above, the more leagues you have the more diluted the competition. I have heard that BBI is trying to put together a 16U and 18U leagues next year that will have divisions of 6 to 8 of the best teams, each age group, only playing each other.
Lone Star has already been doing this. However, the problem is Mustangs will never leave the Lone Star league and there are other teams that won't play anything other than BBI, and still other teams that, for whatever reason, will go start their own leagues (collegiate) and further dilute the competition.
I feel that this is a situation that is controlled by egos and emotions rather than common sense.
Great post, great question!
P.S.- Premeire Association is a group of club teams in Texas and other states around the U.S., that have banded together to form an association. Teams in N. TX are, D. Mustangs, Arlington A's, Burk Burnett Blacksox. There is also two teams from Austin, one from San Antonio and 1 or 2 from Houston. Other states represented are, Indiana, Kansas, Memphis, ?, ?.
* BBI
* Lone Star
* Collegiate league
* North Texas (McKinney)
However, I agree that at 15 and above, the more leagues you have the more diluted the competition. I have heard that BBI is trying to put together a 16U and 18U leagues next year that will have divisions of 6 to 8 of the best teams, each age group, only playing each other.
Lone Star has already been doing this. However, the problem is Mustangs will never leave the Lone Star league and there are other teams that won't play anything other than BBI, and still other teams that, for whatever reason, will go start their own leagues (collegiate) and further dilute the competition.
I feel that this is a situation that is controlled by egos and emotions rather than common sense.
Great post, great question!
P.S.- Premeire Association is a group of club teams in Texas and other states around the U.S., that have banded together to form an association. Teams in N. TX are, D. Mustangs, Arlington A's, Burk Burnett Blacksox. There is also two teams from Austin, one from San Antonio and 1 or 2 from Houston. Other states represented are, Indiana, Kansas, Memphis, ?, ?.
Well, I'll say this. Not to demean any of the kids who were out there playing their best night in and night out, but I was shocked at the skill / talent level of some of the teams in BBI regular season play. There should be a place for all kids to play ball, but when a league has a ton of 20-1, 19-3, etc scores, something is really wrong. That's not good for anyone. When the dust settles, let's hope that there is some thought given to putting teams, good or bad, into reasonably competitive situations.
The Texas teams in Premier Baseball do take turns hosting invitational tournaments. So to some it has the appearance of a league, since they typically attend each others' invitational tournaments.
From Austin: Austin Slam, Austin Wings.
From Houston: Columbia Angels, Houston Heat, Kyle Chapman.
From San Antonio: South Texas Sliders.
Play for any one of these teams and you will be playing the rest on a regular basis.
The dilution seems to be occuring throughout select ball.
From Austin: Austin Slam, Austin Wings.
From Houston: Columbia Angels, Houston Heat, Kyle Chapman.
From San Antonio: South Texas Sliders.
Play for any one of these teams and you will be playing the rest on a regular basis.
The dilution seems to be occuring throughout select ball.
Premier baseball is a league! This was their first year, and for a first year it was ran better than some old leagues, like USSSA, SuperSeries, etc. I have experienced all of the listed leagues above, and was very impressed with the Premier league's efforts for their first year.
They have seemed to attract most of the best organizations in Texas, minus D-Bat. There are 16 charter teams, with 8 of those in Texas, and they do have a website, Premier baseball.com. Their national tournament was held in Joplin Missouri in July, and was very professionally ran, The Houston Heat had their hands full with the Bayside Yankees out of Brooklyn New York, but the heat prevailed in the end.
I can see more teams joining their organization in the coming years, due to some experienced folks running the show, and doing it well!
As to dilution, I have talked to many folks who have asked for someone to step up and form a league like Premier,someone who can and will offer what they do, real baseball, and real competition. There are no givemes in Premier, all of the teams are very competitive!
They have seemed to attract most of the best organizations in Texas, minus D-Bat. There are 16 charter teams, with 8 of those in Texas, and they do have a website, Premier baseball.com. Their national tournament was held in Joplin Missouri in July, and was very professionally ran, The Houston Heat had their hands full with the Bayside Yankees out of Brooklyn New York, but the heat prevailed in the end.
I can see more teams joining their organization in the coming years, due to some experienced folks running the show, and doing it well!
As to dilution, I have talked to many folks who have asked for someone to step up and form a league like Premier,someone who can and will offer what they do, real baseball, and real competition. There are no givemes in Premier, all of the teams are very competitive!
Unless the following information is out-of-date -- please see the website for information on Premier -- there are some inaccuracies in the preceeding posts.
The website is premierbaseball.net (not com)
From the section on "About Premier":
"Premier Baseball is not a league, and at present does not contemplate engaging in league play among its members, although its members are free to engage in league play. The members of Premier will host invitational tournaments whose pools and brackets will be populated by other Premier teams, though not exclusively."
I agree with Texan that the logistics resemble a league in Central to South Texas.
The website is premierbaseball.net (not com)
From the section on "About Premier":
"Premier Baseball is not a league, and at present does not contemplate engaging in league play among its members, although its members are free to engage in league play. The members of Premier will host invitational tournaments whose pools and brackets will be populated by other Premier teams, though not exclusively."
I agree with Texan that the logistics resemble a league in Central to South Texas.
It's about who you know...
quote:Originally posted by Txdad07:
Your statement slights groups like the Tigers, Panthers, blackhawks, Marshals, Patriots and others. I've been told the Premier stuff is put together for certain teams in different areas to keep a stronghold on recruiting the elite players and allow them to charge the big $$$. They are trying to manufacture their own edge. Doesn't seem to working in Dallas because their are just too many good teams to play for. Besides, the Arlington As and Burkburnett are pretty weak these days when compared to the teams mentioned above. What so premier about that?
You've been told wrong, from what I have seen. The Columbia Angels, Houston Heat & Kyle Chapman are going to dominate the Houston area recruiting with or without Premier. Ditto for the South Texas Sliders in South Texas. And for the Slam & Wings in Austin. Think about it.
And not all of the Premier teams charge "big $$$". The fees of at least one of the Houston teams are $500 for the summer. Can Dallas beat that?
The A's younger age programs did seem to be weaker, and I don't think they made very many of the Premier tournaments this summer. Can't say about their 18U.
You bet the Tigers, Panthers, etc. have good programs. Perhaps they eventually will join in.
Panther Dad, your information is correct.
quote:Originally posted by Texan:
You bet the Tigers, Panthers, etc. have good programs. Perhaps they eventually will join in.
I wouldnt count on the Kitty Kitty's ever joining the Premier league
No skin off my back.
With Dave Bingham coaching at Nebraska who is now making all the money off premier Baseball.
Who cares?
i agree,the premiere league is for club teams to charge big bucks.2500$ to play on the mo.team.anything bingham is involved in watchout.its about the money.
Just waiting on the 2-5 word response...........................................................................................................
quote:Originally posted by bdt:
i agree,the premiere league is for club teams to charge big bucks.2500$ to play on the mo.team.anything bingham is involved in watchout.its about the money.
Some of the teams in Premier charge as little as $500. Don't think it is "all about the money".
{Sorry to disappoint, DP
}
2500.00 dollars is ALOT for anual fee to be on a "club team". 500.00 is not enough to pay the bills for any club team that plays league and participates in at least 4 tournaments.
I suspect that there is more to those numbers than just throwing them out there for shock value. If a club is charging 2500.00 per player, this has to include more than, uniform, league fees, tourny fees, coaching fees, "club fee".
The reverse has to be true on the 500.00 per player fee. Exclude coach fee and "club fee", you still can't run a "club team" for <1,000.00 per player unless you have sponsorship or you do fundraisers.
I suspect that there is more to those numbers than just throwing them out there for shock value. If a club is charging 2500.00 per player, this has to include more than, uniform, league fees, tourny fees, coaching fees, "club fee".
The reverse has to be true on the 500.00 per player fee. Exclude coach fee and "club fee", you still can't run a "club team" for <1,000.00 per player unless you have sponsorship or you do fundraisers.
My 9 year old nephew was "invited" to play on a fall "select" team a month ago ....... price was $1200.00 for 12 games!! My brother (player's dad) called me to inquire, since it was their first invitation to play "up".
I told them to save the money (and maybe go to the State Fair of Texas with it??)
I told them to save the money (and maybe go to the State Fair of Texas with it??)quote:Originally posted by Txdad07:Your statement slights groups like the Tigers, Panthers, blackhawks, Marshals, Patriots and others. I've been told the Premier stuff is put together for certain teams in different areas to keep a stronghold on recruiting the elite players and allow them to charge the big $$$. They are trying to manufacture their own edge. Doesn't seem to working in Dallas because their are just too many good teams to play for. Besides, the Arlington As and Burkburnett are pretty weak these days when compared to the teams mentioned above. What so premier about that?quote:They have seemed to attract most of the best organizations in Texas, minus D-Bat.
THE ARLINGTON A'S HAVE BEEN A QUALITY PROGRAM FOR YEARS. THEY MADE IT TO THE REGIONALS AT LEAST 8 OF 10 YEARS IN CONNIE MACK. LAST YEAR 2004, MY SON PLAYED THE BBI STARS FOR STATE TOURNEY AND WON. THIS YEAR THE A'S WERE 5-2
AT THE SENIOR PREMIER IN JOPLIN,FINISHED 7TH IN THE JUNIOR PREMIER OUT 0F 18 TEAMS, AND THE 16 YEAR OLDS FINISHED 6TH IN THE PREMIER OUT OF 22 TEAMS. THE A'S ARE NOT WEAK AT ALL.THE A'S TRAVEL MORE AND PLAY THE WINGS,SLAM ,SLIDERS, BLACKSOX, KS SLUGGERS,HOUSTON HEAT,FT WORTH CATS,MIDWEST NATIONALS,MIDWEST PROSPECTS.KC CHAPMAN.
THEY DO HAVE OTHER A'S CLUBS.
AS FAR AS THE OTHER CLUBS,TIGERS ,MARSHALLS, PATRIOTS, STARS, D-BAT. I FEEL THEY RUN GREAT PROGRAMS AS WELL. BE LUCKY THEY ALL HAVE GREAT ORGANIZATIONS, OR MY KID MIGHT NOT HAVE ENDED UP AT D-1. ALL THESE TEAMS CAN PLAY.
Sounds like a Dave Acton infomercial. Thanks Dave!quote:THE ARLINGTON A'S HAVE BEEN A QUALITY PROGRAM FOR YEARS. THEY MADE IT TO THE REGIONALS AT LEAST 8 OF 10 YEARS IN CONNIE MACK. LAST YEAR 2004, MY SON PLAYED THE BBI STARS FOR STATE TOURNEY AND WON. THIS YEAR THE A'S WERE 5-2
AT THE SENIOR PREMIER IN JOPLIN,FINISHED 7TH IN THE JUNIOR PREMIER OUT 0F 18 TEAMS, AND THE 16 YEAR OLDS FINISHED 6TH IN THE PREMIER OUT OF 22 TEAMS. THE A'S ARE NOT WEAK AT ALL.THE A'S TRAVEL MORE AND PLAY THE WINGS,SLAM ,SLIDERS, BLACKSOX, KS SLUGGERS,HOUSTON HEAT,FT WORTH CATS,MIDWEST NATIONALS,MIDWEST PROSPECTS.KC CHAPMAN.
THEY DO HAVE OTHER A'S CLUBS.
AS FAR AS THE OTHER CLUBS,TIGERS ,MARSHALLS, PATRIOTS, STARS, D-BAT. I FEEL THEY RUN GREAT PROGRAMS AS WELL. BE LUCKY THEY ALL HAVE GREAT ORGANIZATIONS, OR MY KID MIGHT NOT HAVE ENDED UP AT D-1. ALL THESE TEAMS CAN PLAY.
From what I understand Premier will never allow DBAT, Tigers, Panthers, Blackhawks, Marshals, Patriots., etc. to participate.
Okay, I'll bite. Why?quote:Premier will never allow the DBAT, Tigers, Panthers, Blackhawks, Marshals, Patriots., etc. to participate.
Well take a look at the participating teams from the area and overall; the Mustangs and Athletics. If you wanted a strong program why not invite teams like DBAT, Tigers, Blackhawks, etc. In my opinion Premier feels there is a recruiting edge being part of what they feel is an elite fraternity. Well thats not the case. Recruiting is all about development and taking players to the next level. I give credit the Mustangs do a good job with that. We played 7 of the premier teams this summer and went undefeated. Only one of the games was close.
To me each club's cost has to be weighed on a case by case basis. In an earlier post someone mentioned the cost of particapation for the Midwest Nationals based out of Springfield, MO (2,500). After my son went through the program I can attest that the cost is not out of line for what you get and there are not a whole lot of people making much money on this at all.
It bothers me when people talk things they do not have any first hand knowledge.
Although I can not speak for any club other than what I experienced he is a breif breakdown of what was received for the money.
Tournaments - Nine high quality tournaments in all June - July (every week). Most played in D1
facilities. All entry fee's paid, insurance, balls, etc...
Lodging - All hotels paid for (Roughly 40 nights).
Travel - Almost all tournaments were out of state and transportation for all players was provided (charters or buses).
Uniforms - A few sets of high quality uniforms, cap's, underarmor, bat bag's.
Orginazation and Coaching - High quality coaching with both MLB and college ties and conections.
Exposure - All tournaments attended by numerous scouts from every level of school.
If not mistaken every kid that has graduated HS that played on this team since it's inception has received a baseball scholarship somewhere ranging from Juco to Major D1. This does not count players that have been drafted......
You add it up and tell me the cost is to high...
It bothers me when people talk things they do not have any first hand knowledge.
Although I can not speak for any club other than what I experienced he is a breif breakdown of what was received for the money.
Tournaments - Nine high quality tournaments in all June - July (every week). Most played in D1
facilities. All entry fee's paid, insurance, balls, etc...
Lodging - All hotels paid for (Roughly 40 nights).
Travel - Almost all tournaments were out of state and transportation for all players was provided (charters or buses).
Uniforms - A few sets of high quality uniforms, cap's, underarmor, bat bag's.
Orginazation and Coaching - High quality coaching with both MLB and college ties and conections.
Exposure - All tournaments attended by numerous scouts from every level of school.
If not mistaken every kid that has graduated HS that played on this team since it's inception has received a baseball scholarship somewhere ranging from Juco to Major D1. This does not count players that have been drafted......
You add it up and tell me the cost is to high...
I agree with U of A -- comparing costs between teams needs to be an apples to apples comparison. We paid $1500 this summer, but many of the items listed above were not included. Total costs were at least $3500 with travel and all. I suppose hotel rooms and transportation are beneficial only when you send your son alone --- which must be somewhat uncommon.
texan,you have the premier thing figured out pretty good,i believe.i cannot speak for you guys being in a different state.i envy you guys as baseball up here is on the weak side.the 2500 was for uniforms,travel'usually greyhound.coaching limited.only at the tournaments.motels,5 to a room for some kids.one air ticket. they will not be as strong this year 06 because of drop offs.this is what the money got us this year.
quote:Originally posted by Baseball&BBQ:Sounds like a Dave Acton infomercial. Thanks Dave!quote:THE ARLINGTON A'S HAVE BEEN A QUALITY PROGRAM FOR YEARS. THEY MADE IT TO THE REGIONALS AT LEAST 8 OF 10 YEARS IN CONNIE MACK. LAST YEAR 2004, MY SON PLAYED THE BBI STARS FOR STATE TOURNEY AND WON. THIS YEAR THE A'S WERE 5-2
AT THE SENIOR PREMIER IN JOPLIN,FINISHED 7TH IN THE JUNIOR PREMIER OUT 0F 18 TEAMS, AND THE 16 YEAR OLDS FINISHED 6TH IN THE PREMIER OUT OF 22 TEAMS. THE A'S ARE NOT WEAK AT ALL.THE A'S TRAVEL MORE AND PLAY THE WINGS,SLAM ,SLIDERS, BLACKSOX, KS SLUGGERS,HOUSTON HEAT,FT WORTH CATS,MIDWEST NATIONALS,MIDWEST PROSPECTS.KC CHAPMAN.
THEY DO HAVE OTHER A'S CLUBS.
AS FAR AS THE OTHER CLUBS,TIGERS ,MARSHALLS, PATRIOTS, STARS, D-BAT. I FEEL THEY RUN GREAT PROGRAMS AS WELL. BE LUCKY THEY ALL HAVE GREAT ORGANIZATIONS, OR MY KID MIGHT NOT HAVE ENDED UP AT D-1. ALL THESE TEAMS CAN PLAY.
Just a parent of the A's that has been around the program.Just wanted to set the record straight. My son plays at Kansas State.I don't think dave has a son at K-State.