Curveball @ 9 yrs.

Savannah,
Good question and I appreciate your honesty. I can only tell you what I’ve read and what little I’ve picked up on. Growth plates, torque, and overuse are the key words here. Just throwing in an overhand motion puts stress on the elbow and shoulder. To properly develop there must be normal growth without destruction to the growth plates, tendons etc. Why is the curve ball so bad? Because, if it is not thrown "properly", it puts ADDITIONAL torque and stress on the elbow and shoulder. Combine these two and you have a recipe for damage and could face surgery at some point in his life. Cautiously, I might add that the experts do suggest that a "properly" thrown curveball doesn’t create any more stress than a fastball. So what do they consider proper, and what is bad? Here is an example. The motion that is used to turn a doorknob is bad. The correct motion is the motion used to "shake" your finger at someone but few young players can master this technique.
I suggest you follow conventional wisdom and postpone the CB for a few years. I also know your son, if he’s like my son and most other kids will NOT follow that same wisdom. At least teach him the proper way to throw a curveball. If you don’t feel comfortable with that chore, get a competent pitching instructor.
My son is supposed to have a good curveball so a newspaper in AL did an article on his curveball last year. My son was quoted as saying I taught him to throw it when he was 11 but I give the credit to Charlie Lea, a former MLB pitcher who coached him as a 14 yr old. While my son never had any arm problems, I have seen many young pitchers develop arm problems caused by overuse and throwing too many curveballs (improperly I assume). While these young players may NOT have had surgery, they did have to quit pitching at a young age. Would they have ever gone to the next level if they had been coached properly? We’ll never know!
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Savannah,
Not knowing a tremendous amount about the advantages vs disadvantages of throwing one pitch vs another I would offer the following advice...call an Orthopedist that specializes in Sports Medicine...as to what the injury rate is among pitchers throwing cb...find out if throwing this type of pitch, at this age, would have the potential to cause further damage down the road as he ages...I do know that when my son was in LL he would catch and pitch...pediatrician went ballistic...made him chose one or the other...he felt that all that arm motion was destructive to the arm and shoulder as most coaches do not comprehend that for every pitch thrown it has to be thrown back and then all those other throws to the bases etc... even though he is now 19, and a sophomore in college, there are times when his elbow and shoulder do hurt...despite weight lifting and conditioning that he has done for a few years now...responds well to rest, ice and anti-inflammatories... but I would seriously consider finding out what the "pros" in this field feel....that would be those who deal with the end result ...the MD's

Bad idea, don't allow it. No kid should need or throw a curveball at that age. Glad to hear you are on top of this - but a deuce isn't necessary at that age. If anything, show him how to throw a change...that pitch is more important down the road anyway, and that one won't kill his arm long-term.

Even a properly thrown curveball is more stressful on the arm than a fastball. Anyone who tells you otherwise hasn't gone out and thrown curves in BP. I speak from experience.

And few kids will throw the curve properly. Most young kids will find out (accidentally or otherwise) that they can get a little extra movement on the curve by supinating the wrist. And there is a natural tendency to supinate when throwing the curve. So nearly all young kids end up supinating when they throw the curve. And that is very hard on the elbow. It can lead to separations or stress fractures in the growth plate.

The growth plates in the elbow do not become mature until after puberty. That is one reason why most knowledgeable people put off the curve until 13 or 14YO.

Also, if the curve works for the young pitcher he will have the tendency to use it more. And since the curve uses different mechanics than the fastball, this will - in all likelihood - hinder development of the fastball.

Finally, a good changeup is more devastating than a curve. It is harder to detect, as it has fastball (back) spin, rather than topspin. And since it is thrown with fastball mechanics, it doesn't hinder development.

Have him work on a good changeup. Forget the curve for another five years. This will be in his best interest.

Savannah,
Regardless of whether your son goes on to play at a higher level....
Bad idea. What's the point, to become the 9 year old who "gets 'em with the curveball"?

Lots of kids in our area threw curbeballs at young ages, It was the thing to do, to be better, win ,more games. They still may play ball, but no longer pitch.

Savannah:

Our summer/fall team of HS Juniors/Seniors don't allow their pitchers to throw more than 4-5 curves per GAME. We believe it hinders the development of a good fastball, since the mechanics are different and it hinders the development of an effective change-up, which is critical in college. Over the past 2 years, we've had 5 pitchers commit to D1 colleges and 1 to a JUCO, and the year isn't over for the current year's crop.

Location, Movement, Velocity.

Most curve-ball pitchers I've seen a younger age never develop the control and velocity. (not all - some turned out great), and mine learned it at the age of 12, but has been limited on how much he can throw it.

I read a report recently from the ASMI about this topic. In the report, they stated that their test suggested the Shoulder and elbow kenetics were similar with Fastballs and Curve balls. I believe that it even mentioned that a fastball had greater elbow and shoulder kenetics. It also said that based on the test, there is no proof that a curveball is more stressful than a fastball.

By the way, the report also suggested that a change up is the least stressful of all.

To me, throwing a curveball is the same as throwing a football, except the football is heavier!

Let me turn the question around.

Is there a good reason to throw a curve ball at age 9? I can't think of any.

Got to agree with Texan on this one. If you've thrown a lot of curves in BP you know it hurts. If you try to throw a lot of fastballs at full speed in BP it will end up hurting. I don't know which one actually puts more stress on the arm, but I do know that they put different stresses on the arm. If you do both you are going to have a higher risk of damage. Since no one is going to advocate throwing only curves, then you'll have the least amount of risk by throwing only fastballs and changeups. My 13yo still isn't throwing curve balls, he's mastered a palm ball reasonably well and the pitch he's working on now is the straight change. When he turns 14 we'll start developing the curve.

Justbaseball,
While I agree with you, I suggest you ask a 9yo pitcher if he wants to throw CB's. He will say yes . . . . So, how do you monitor the situation or do you go on trust? I remember my grandmother telling me the story about her teaching her five sons to swim. She took them all to the river and they all scared her by running up a tree and jumping into the water. Unbeknownst to her, they had been swimming in the river for years.
Fungo

Fungo - I know exactly what you mean. Our now college son was throwing it at age 9 (he was foolish enough to throw it to me in a warmup between innings).

But I pulled him aside and told him I didn't want him throwing it for a few years. Maybe he listened to me, probably not, but at least he wasn't out there in the rec. league throwing it 20-25 times an outing like I see so many kids doing.

I think a lot of young kids throw a curveball because its easier to get results from than a changeup early on. A changeup was much harder for him to learn...but once he did, he fell in love with it.

There was a very good article in Collegiate Baseball magazine in June I believe covering much of this topic. The article incorporated a lot of information on pitching and its impact beginning at age 8 and beyond. I know you can call Collegiate Baseball and order that issue for $3 I believe. For any parent of a young pitcher, I would recommend it and other similar articles as must reading.

fungo-
I think you have to monitor the situation...and explain to the young man WHY you don't want him to throw the deuce. Kids want to know the reasons or they'll be curious and find out on their own.

I think it's an easy question to ask a 9 year old- son, would you like to have an arm at 15?

Can you prove that a properly thrown curveball will hurt your arm? I don't think so.

I go back to my football comment. Do you tell your 9 year old son not to throw a football? What is the difference? Too me, throwing a football would be worse than throwing a curveball because the football weighs much more. Is almost like those people who say that they won't let their players throw weighted balls, yet they have no problem with them throwing a football.

If you twist the wrist/elbow then you will have problems(the elbow is not designed to twist). But I have never heard a pitching coach tell a pitcher to twist while throwing anything!

I am not saying a 9 year old should throw a curveball. In fact, I think they should master a change up first. I just don't like the reasons that most people give for not throwing a curveball at a young age. It just doesn't seem logical.

rocket - I think the more appropriate questions is can you prove it won't? Nearly all experienced people in this game recommend not to do it...including doctors. If its your son, why would you take the advised-against risk?

I know a young man who just had TJ surgery at age 16...on the brink of a fabulous HS career and a sure-thing college career. Doctor said his elbow had prior trauma. He threw a lot of curve balls from age 11 up. Did it cause the injury? Don't know...but most people think it contributed. Why take the chance?

I think that part of the problem is that most adults don't realize how hard it is for a kid that age to throw a changeup. A lot of 9-year olds have a three finger grip for their fastball, just because their hands and fingers aren't big enough to use a normal grip. And you can't put the ball back in the palm if it's already there.

So the Little League curve - straight over the top, no wrist twist at the end - becomes the easiest off-speed pitch to throw. And it works. And since it works, they keep throwing it. (It's like a drug.) Eventually, a kid who's good with the LL curve will be throwing it a lot - more than half the time. I don't know if there's a verifiable difference in arm stress between throwing curveballs and fastballs - conventional wisdom isn't always right, but I'm inclined to follow it until shown a reason not to - but I dont think it's a good idea to throw a lot of deuces that young for a lot of reasons - including the fact that it's an "easy" way to get a strike without having to learn to locate and change speeds.

Rocket,

Even a properly thrown curve ball is more stressful on the elbow than a fastball. I know this for a fact. I have thrown enough in hitting practice to have first hand experience.

Secondly, young pitchers have a tendency to supinate when throwing the curve. They do not tend to throw it correctly. And the supination does cause elbow problems.

You may not like the reasons given, but that doesn't change the facts. Whether or not it "seems" logical to you is really irrelevant.

Rocket you introduce a good point .

Nobody argues a binary situation with football throwing or fastball throwing. It's always moderation . Yet when it comes to the curve- it's "DON't do it" .
Ther's a breakdown in logic there.

Somebody asked ' why should a 9 year old throw a curve? "For the same reason you teach a basket ball player to shoot with his left . simply add to his arsenal.