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Cutting freshman baseball

B Blprkfrnks100+ posts
It seems that our area is considering cutting freshman (frosh) baseball next season due to a budget crisis. We have about 12 high schools, and some of the smaller schools have never had the numbers to field a freshman team. That leaves 6-8 schools that field a very solid freshman team each year. I fear that we will lose kids to other sports if this happens.

I started thinking about how colleges run club baseball, and how our high schools have clubs for everything from ping-pong and roller hockey to travel. I wonder if you could have a baseball club that runs on a minimum budget and has a minimal time commitment that could replace freshman baseball.

You could simplify the uniform to a tee shirt, hat, and specify a pants color. That would be about a fifty dollar investment for each kid that they could pay for. The fields are there, as the 6-8 schools are currently fielding teams already. You could have two or three practices a week and play Saturday games. This would allow volunteer parents to transport the kids to and from games. You could have the home team hire one umpire per game and play about 12-14 games or less games and have a season ending tournament. Another thought was to have those juniors and seniors that love baseball but can't quite make the varsity squad to be the assistants for this club team (just have one adult manager). They could get EC credits for their help and stay in the game they love. This sounds a little like rec ball, but the kids will get the school pride and will be feeding into the varsity and JV teams.

Does anyone think this is feasible, is it already happening in some places, or am I missing something here?
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Backstop-17Backstop-17500+ posts
In Hillsborough County here in Florida (where Tampa is located), they have no formal JV or Freshman baseball from the school system. However, each school has either 1 or 2 underclassmen teams that participate within the Pony Baseball program as Colt teams. We use local 60/90 Pony baseball fields for this effort. The cost is similar to that of Rec baseball, utilizing t-shirts and such as you describe. Our Pony Baseball program in Tampa is active the same time that high school baseball is going on so the parks are staffed and maintained during this time.

In the summer, the schools participate in the Legion program with A, B and C teams that use the same concept.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
This would allow volunteer parents to transport the kids to and from games.
This is potentially a huge liability issue. It may even violate some school union workers/bus drivers contract.

On the surface you have a good idea. It would be easier if developed outside the school or possibly be an official high school club league/program. There's no reason why the teams still can't be called by the high school's name or nickname.

While I'm all for kids getting an extra opportunity to play ball, from a development standpoint are freshmen who don't make JV ever making varsity? The reason I ask is about how much support will be provided by the schools. At my son's high school, the kids who ultimately move up to varsity are starting on JV as freshmen and sophs.

The person who adminstrates this league will have earned the Community Volunteer of the Year award. I'll nominate you just for thinking of the kids.
Last edited by RJM
zombywoofzombywoof1,000+ posts
Our area has no middle school or jr. high baseball so between the time they play little league and they get to high school, freshman baseball loses those kids to other sports like football, basketball and sòccer that are played in middle school and jr high.

For the baseball players in our area, many continue in the local rec league because they have a Babe Ruth summer all-star team and sponsor a 15U and 13U American Legion teams. Others play in weekend local travel leagues as well.

I would say it's definitely feasible if there's a demand for freshman players looking to play and the only option out there for them are leagues that cater to this age group, but it probablty has to be done seperately from the school system. What about existing local Babe Ruth leagues in the area? It might be easier just to play rec ball and all-star summer tournaments.
Last edited by zombywoof
CollegeParentNoMoreCollegeParentNoMore1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Blprkfrnks:
It seems that our area is considering cutting freshman (frosh) baseball next season due to a budget crisis. We have about 12 high schools, and some of the smaller schools have never had the numbers to field a freshman team. That leaves 6-8 schools that field a very solid freshman team each year. I fear that we will lose kids to other sports if this happens.

I started thinking about how colleges run club baseball, and how our high schools have clubs for everything from ping-pong and roller hockey to travel. I wonder if you could have a baseball club that runs on a minimum budget and has a minimal time commitment that could replace freshman baseball.

You could simplify the uniform to a tee shirt, hat, and specify a pants color. That would be about a fifty dollar investment for each kid that they could pay for. The fields are there, as the 6-8 schools are currently fielding teams already. You could have two or three practices a week and play Saturday games. This would allow volunteer parents to transport the kids to and from games. You could have the home team hire one umpire per game and play about 12-14 games or less games and have a season ending tournament. Another thought was to have those juniors and seniors that love baseball but can't quite make the varsity squad to be the assistants for this club team (just have one adult manager). They could get EC credits for their help and stay in the game they love. This sounds a little like rec ball, but the kids will get the school pride and will be feeding into the varsity and JV teams.

Does anyone think this is feasible, is it already happening in some places, or am I missing something here?


Why not play babe ruth or senior league? I would bet those leagues will move up their start dates if the local HS dont' have freshman baseball.
rz1rz15,000+ posts
On the surface it really looks ugly with potential negative long term ramifications. However, if there is a good plan to form organized teams outside the school, that still has the HS feel, I don't see much problem going in that direction.

In order to make it work I think the HS coach has to show some genuine interest in the program, and the rosters are made up of kids from the same school. The worse thing that can happen is that a team looking to be the best brings in kids from other areas, thus losing thaty HS team "feel".
Last edited by rz1
BS Brian Shanberg100+ posts
Ask the initiator of the proposal to post the cost savings proposal line item detail. (Its typically a politically designated school board member.)

I just can't imagine there is a lot of real savings. I bet that proposal is very inflated or contains items that will not really equate to savings. Other than the salary supplement to the teacher/coach, I can't think of too much that would generate much savings. (Assuming the program had a reasonable and conservative budget to begin with.)
B Blprkfrnks100+ posts
In answer to some of the points brought up.

Our school (as well as others) are already using parents to transport kids for many JV and Freshman games. The parents must register with the school and go through a background check, and then the other parents have the option of refusing to allow their kid to be transported by any of the registered drivers.

My son played a winter sport, and was placed onto the freshman team his first year of high school. He and two other freshman moved up to JV three weeks later due to injuries/grade issues at the varsity and JV level. They are all three starting at varsity as juniors. I also have seen kids that mature late really blossom in 10th or 11th grade. These kids would probably be playing some other sport by then.

We have no middle school baseball in our area. The rec leagues (or a travel team) support those kids between the ages of 13 and 15, but it is an everyone plays league, and there are players that have never touched a baseball on the same teams as players that will be stars. I suppose it may be easier to let the rec leagues absord these guys than to try to start a school team. Our school carries 15-16 players on each team. I suppose you could up that to about 18 per team and get the top 6-8 freshman into the system.

Hearing some of these ideas, makes me wonder if it would be worth administering a high school club type team. The only thing missing by using our rec league would be the school type spirit.
rz1rz15,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Brian Shanberg:
Ask the initiator of the proposal to post the cost savings proposal line item detail. (Its typically a politically designated school board member.)

Brian I like the "heavy handed" approach. You are right that before anything gets started the initial problem needs to be fleshed out. The other thing to find out is what other Freshman sports are being cut and then either combine forces with them demanding an explanation or use them as an example, asking why only baseball was affected.

In regard to overhead costs. Other expenditures might include umpires, travel, field rental and or maintenance, equipment, uniforms, and practice needs. All to varying degrees of coarse.
Last edited by rz1
itsrosyitsrosy1,000+ posts
School districts throughout the country are really in a major mess. Heck, state governments owe all their vendors, parents are being asked to donate school supplies and even toilet paper.

Unfortunately, I think that cutbacks are just beginning and that isn't just for HS's. State colleges and universities are being squeezed, and private institutions have seen their endowments go the way of our 401K's. Even though tuition is going up (brilliant move)some schools will strongly consider dropping the non-revenue producing sports, hint,hint.

Just saw on another forum that University of Northern Iowa has announced that they are dropping baseball after 103 years. This is just the beginning.
Last edited by itsrosy
zombywoofzombywoof1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Brian Shanberg:
Ask the initiator of the proposal to post the cost savings proposal line item detail. (Its typically a politically designated school board member.)

I just can't imagine there is a lot of real savings. I bet that proposal is very inflated or contains items that will not really equate to savings. Other than the salary supplement to the teacher/coach, I can't think of too much that would generate much savings. (Assuming the program had a reasonable and conservative budget to begin with.)


Just go look at the exhorborant salaries of those employed by the board of ed. In our state, you got 21 counties and over 600 school districts with over 600 superintendents, schools with multiple vice prioncipals, employees collecting 30 years of unused sick days all at the current rate of pay when they retire. No wonder schools need parents to bring toilet paper to school.
Last edited by zombywoof
F freddy775,000+ posts
Our high school hockey team is completely self-funded. Because ice time costs $300/hr., it's expensive.

How much can it cost to self-fund a 15 player freshman baseball team? The uniforms are left over from last year. The fields are available for free.

15 players, $350/player? Just do it.

Freshmen year--age 14--is huge transitional year in boys' lives. Wearing their school's uniform is a big deal at that age.
zombywoofzombywoof1,000+ posts
I agree. It can't be that costly to field a freshman team. A lot of the player costs such as uniforms, equipment and pregame meals can be raised thru the booster club and fundraisers. Freshman and JV teams typically run with one coach. There's not a whole lot of expense like the cost of a hockey or bowling team or any other team sport that requires renting space for their games or events.
F freddy775,000+ posts
15 players, 16 game season
$300 pay to play per player= $4500 budget

uniforms--recycled, no expense
fields--no expense
umpires $75 @ game = $1200
baseballs = $200
buses 8 away games @ $200 = $1600
insurance, through the school system = $300?
semi-volunteer coach = $1200

Total = $4500

For the past twenty years, I see my blue collar friends at work blow big-time bucks on their pick-up trucks and eating $5 lunches instead of bringing a lunch box. They swing $300 sticks on the softball diamond and smoke a pack a day which is $1200 a year.

So now these dudes have to dig down for $350 so their 14 yr old boy can have a one-time experience--playing for his high school. Just do it. Even if they have to sell a couple of their softball bats on Ebay.

Don't go begging to the board of ed. Your kids aren't entitled to play freshman baseball, and your fellow citizens aren't morally required to pay for it.
D DG100+ posts
Volunteer efforts are indeed one way to go. The cummunity I live in has accomplished many great things through volunteerism and donations. The problem with volunteer efforts is its difficult to sustain. The few people that do all the volunteering usually burn out after a while and the program fades away or just limps along.

I know of one city in California called Clovis that I am told passed a 1 cent sales tax that it totally dedicated to schools. While they still recieve State and Federal funds, they are not forced to live on a shoe string budgets. The school district has built magnificent schools and sports facilities. I have been to tournaments there and saw four field softball complexes, amazing baseball stadiums, killer locker rooms, swimming complexes, athletic training centers with well paid professional staff. There baseball teams are often ranked among the top 25 in California. Youth baseball programs are enhanced through coordinated efforts with high school coaching staffs. The High schools are a feeder programs to Fresno State University among other surrounding colleges. They recruit the very best teachers which of course improve acedemics. All of their schools look like small universities. Housing values are at least $50,000 more in this city do to the areas desirability. This community has elevated itself from being just another farming community in the central valley to a truly desirable place to live.

I am not advocating tax increases, just bringing another possible solution to the problem.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
I am not advocating tax increases, just bringing another possible solution to the problem.
What percentage of students are involved in extra curricular activities (sports, band, school play, etc.)? I would imagine the parents of kids who don't participate would be outraged at the levy of taxes to support programs their kids don't participate. Personally I'd rather pay out of pocket than pay taxes. It's hard to make taxes go away even when the need for the money ceases to exist.
P 80PATRIOT100+ posts
We have a private 8th grade league that started two springs ago and is already up to 15 teams. It runs $200-$300 for 20+ games. They affiliate with the High Schools boundry wise. In some cases they use the HS field.

They are talking about cutting freshman and jv sports around here and my bet is this league or something like it will take their place.
D DG100+ posts
RJM, in California sales taxes can only be increased by a 66.67% vote of support from the registered voters in a given area. So if your outraged that your neighbors voted in favor of the tax increase, I guess you can move to another community with inferior schools. Its no different than any other consumer activity, if you don't want to spend $250 on an exogrid, go to walmart and spend $25 on a bat, just remember, you get what you pay for. I believe these schools also have far supperior acedemics to surrounding central valley coomunities. Although, I didn't get allot of informaton from a weekend tournament, I have heard they have integrated technology extensively in the classrroms, so parents of non athletes are still getting a benfit. Perhaps someone on the board that lives in the Clovis area can speak to the issue.
P powertoallfields1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by freddy77:
Our high school hockey team is completely self-funded. Because ice time costs $300/hr., it's expensive.

How much can it cost to self-fund a 15 player freshman baseball team? The uniforms are left over from last year. The fields are available for free.

15 players, $350/player? Just do it.

Freshmen year--age 14--is huge transitional year in boys' lives. Wearing their school's uniform is a big deal at that age.




I agree! Our entire program (Freshman, J.V., Varsity) is self-funded by fundraisers, gate money, concessions. We even have a team bus (funded by the program). The only thing the school board pays for is insurance. I think that's a pretty good deal for the school board. The Parents can chose to work fundraisers or pay for their kid to play. This years cost was $400 for Varsity players which included a Spring break tourney trip to Florida.

The Parents just need to get together and decide to get'er done!
P powertoallfields1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by DG:
Volunteer efforts are indeed one way to go. The cummunity I live in has accomplished many great things through volunteerism and donations. The problem with volunteer efforts is its difficult to sustain. The few people that do all the volunteering usually burn out after a while and the program fades away or just limps along.

I know of one city in California called Clovis that I am told passed a 1 cent sales tax that it totally dedicated to schools. While they still recieve State and Federal funds, they are not forced to live on a shoe string budgets. The school district has built magnificent schools and sports facilities. I have been to tournaments there and saw four field softball complexes, amazing baseball stadiums, killer locker rooms, swimming complexes, athletic training centers with well paid professional staff. There baseball teams are often ranked among the top 25 in California. Youth baseball programs are enhanced through coordinated efforts with high school coaching staffs. The High schools are a feeder programs to Fresno State University among other surrounding colleges. They recruit the very best teachers which of course improve acedemics. All of their schools look like small universities. Housing values are at least $50,000 more in this city do to the areas desirability. This community has elevated itself from being just another farming community in the central valley to a truly desirable place to live.

I am not advocating tax increases, just bringing another possible solution to the problem.




Wow! All that from a one cent sales tax? Are you sure it wasn't 1%? Either way, that sounds like a lot of bang for the buck to me! I know I'd be willing to pay that if that was the results realized.

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