D1 after limited HS playing time?

A couple years ago we chose a pitcher for our Nationally televised All American Game at Petco Park in San Diego. We picked him based on what we saw at one event.

 

In the previous year, his junior year in high school, he pitched a total of something like 6 varsity innings. He also didn't pitch any his senior year because of injury.  He had committed to a top college in the PAC12, but was drafted in the 1st round and signed for a small fortune. He is now one of the top prospects in the minor leagues after sitting out a year with arm surgery.

 

We have had others that didn't play varsity baseball until they were seniors become good draft picks and with good college commitments.  Sometimes it is very baffling why they didn't play in HS and sometimes it was just a case of being a late bloomer.  But it does happen more than one might think.

 

We had another kid that played outfield until just before his senior year.  We saw him throwing on the mound in the mid 90s and left handed.  I can't explain why he didn't pitch before that.  You would think any coach would see that arm and get him on the mound. Anyway, even with late recognition and little track record, this kid was drafted in the 2nd round.

Add to the above, we had a kid that didn't even play high school baseball.  Can't remember exactly why he didn't play in high school, but he did play in some of our events.  He was drafted out of that high school without even being on their roster.

2019,

 

I don't see this as weird at all.  Playing for a high school or being judged "good enough" to play by a high school coach has little to no bearing on whether a player is talented enough to play at the next level as judged by college coaches or professional scouts.  Playing at the next level has a lot of factors, and certainly baseball "tools" are some of those factors.  It would be great if high school coaches where in complete synch with college coaches and pro scouts, but in my experience, that is not always the case.

 

I see more of the opposite.  Kids (and their parents) who play for a great team and think that they should be able to play at the next level.  Maybe they're surrounded by very talented peers.  Maybe the high school coaches really know how to win at that level. 

 

Those who play college or pro ball have, at a minimum, the baseball tools to play (e.g., running speed, throwing velocity, etc.). PG rates these tools and players.  College coaches and pro scouts do as well. 

 

Late bloomers, team chemistry, etc.  I've seen outstanding players sit in high school and lesser players play.  In college and in the pros, where a coach's complete livelihood depends on getting the best players on the field and winning, it's pretty rare to see the best talent on the bench.

I don't want what I am about to say to be taken the wrong way.  There really are some terrific high school coaches out there (and on this board too, by the way.)    But  one factor that I have come to believe can't and shouldn't be denied that contributes to some kids getting little love in HS,  but going on to play in college is that  some high school baseball coaches are surprisingly clueless.  Some of them just have no idea what they are looking at in terms of talent and potential sometimes.

 

Don't get me wrong,  it's not nearly as bad in HS as it is in, say,  Little League when way too often  clueless dads are running the show.  I grant that your average moderately competent and knowledgable HS coach could run rings around your average clueless little league dad-coach.   But I still think there are far more dogs than you might like to think  out there too, prowling the HS playing fields. 

Sometimes the high school coach is a fool and the kid plays for a good summer program. I played on a Legion team with two stars who were high school bench warmers.The high   school coach had some religious prejudices. These two were never given an opportunity to start. They played JV when they should have been varsity starters as juniors. They sat on the varsity bench as seniors. They both went D1.

 

More recently a friend's son was on a loaded high school team. He was competent on his Legion team. He had D3 interest to walk on. Due to another pitcher's injury the kid exploded on the scene halfway through his senior year (long after typical recruiting). He received two D1 offers less than a month before his freshman year of college.

obviously. I dont know situation at those schools but do know that hs coaches can be quirky.    Our hs coach believes in playing seniors.  My 2017 was one of 3 undrclassmen rostered on varsity,  but he didn't get a lot of playing time.   Then he had several offers from power 5 schools last summer Based on his performance on summer team.   We had several younger kids that were very talented playing JV.   Just the way our coach does things.      in my limited experience it appears that hs baseball has little to nothing to do with college recruiting.     

A lot of it can be based on the coach and his philosophy as well as how heavy his roster is with upperclassman.

 

Here are two PO's stats on my son's HS team for their Jr & Sr years.  Simply put, the head coach would keep his three man rotation intact and didn't go to the pen unless he had to (which was rare).  Both are pitching D1

 

Player 1
Year	GP	IP	W	L	S	K	BB	ERA
Junior	3	2.1	0	0	0	3	1	0.00
Senior	13	56	8	1	0	44	12	1.125
Player 2	GP	IP	W	L	S	K	BB	ERA
Junior	3	3.1	0	0	0	3	0	0.00
Senior	10	67.2	8	1	0	65	10	1.138

 

 

This isn't the least bit unusual in our neck of the woods (Orange County, CA). Our coach has freshmen play Frosh, sophomores (and 6-8 juniors) will play JV and stronger juniors & all seniors play Varsity. In the two years our 2018 has attended high school that hasn't changed. 

 

We have a junior pitcher who is a D1 commit to a great baseball school who will be no better than the varsity's #4 pitcher because of the returning seniors, maybe he'll throw every other week. Our 2018 has learned that high school ball is for fun & school spirit, and summer & fall travel ball is where he really showcases & plays for the future (if there is to be a future beyond HS). Given 20+ man rosters on all three of his high school teams, playing time will be scarce for most everybody.

 

Its a running conversation with all the kids - how can you start for high level showcase teams that travel to Arizona or Florida, but then sit half the game on your high school team?  Personally not a fan, but 2018 has fun and enjoys every minute of high school ball, regardless of the amount of at-bats he gets. 

There can be many reasons why a player doesn't get a good opportunity in high school baseball.

 

In some areas of the country, as in the one "GoldenSombrero" mentioned, it is because some of the teams are loaded with talent.

 

In some cases it is because coaches use senority as the basis for playing time.

 

In other cases it is because the coach is either playing favorite or simply doesn't know any better... or both!

 

Sometimes it has to do with punishment, warranted or not.

 

There can be many different reasons, it just happens.  I didn't bring this up in order to bash HS coaches. HS Coaches, College Coaches, Scouts, Umpires, Players, Trainers, Instructors, Etc., are not all the same... They all range from terrible to great.

My 2016LHP is an early commit to a D1 (as of yesterday); in his junior year he only got 7 innings because his team was loaded with pitching talent. With two of the "big 3" returning, it's going to be a dog fight to be in the new big 3. Playing for good summer teams and picking the right Showcases seems far more important that HS ball...just sayin!

One of my best friends sat for three years behind two very talented quarterbacks. In baseball he sat behind three talented pitchers. In Legion he sat behind five talented pitchers. He finally got his chance senior year when there  only one returning varsity starter in football and none in baseball. He said his senior year high school highlight film could be titled "0-fer." Both teams went from state champions to last place. He pitched or a state champion Legion team after senior year. He walked on to a team that went to the CWS.

I had a "big time" lefty.  Oh, he was going to be the next great ...  When we started the HS preseason practices and he threw live BP, he kept hitting our hitters.  In fact, he hit 5 in the row.  He could sure throw hard and could not hit the broad side of a barn.  Then, we gave him his shot, he hit the first hitter he faced in a game.  He didn't make it 3 innings.  His dad blamed our staff.  We ruined him. We ruined him when he had his private coach, was not coachable and was, in fact, so wild we considered it a blessing when he hit the fence instead of a hitter. He did not finish that year.  He went to his big time college and didn't survive fall ball. 

I'll second that. My experience is that collage coaches could care less about HS play in this area.

Nuke Larouche? 

I have all but given up on the majority of the coaches at my kid's high school.  The only two who seem competant are girls basketball and baseball.  Thank god my kid plays baseball. 

Thanks for all of the replies. This has been eye-opening.

From what I have been able to ascertain on our local HS front these would be the reasons why the under utilized kid goes D1:

 

1. Over abundance of talent.  As one local coach said "It's like I have an entire garage full of Lamborghinis and Porches, I have my favorites but they are all talented."

 

2. Sticking with what has worked in the past.  All human beings are susceptible to the short coming of tunnel vision.  The coach is so focused on what worked last year that he is desperately trying to make it work again, not considering what new players might have to offer.

 

3. Seniority rules.  Several schools aren't in it for the big win they have a baseball team to give the players high school memories and yearbook pictures.  Seniors are given preference over juniors, juniors are given preference over sophomores. In a local school, but different sport, there was a vote for team captain.  Regardless of the feelings of the team, ONLY seniors were allowed to be considered.

 

4. Player won't play.  Their are sometimes dynamics that mere spectators are not aware of.  One local pitcher's father specifically told the baseball coach that his son would NOT be pitching more than 20 innings all season, after all he had to save his arm for showcases and travel baseball. Sadly the coach still took the kid.

 

5. Coach had no choice.  As mentioned above, sometimes the coach just doesn't understand how to utilize players strengths, but also he might be between a rock and hard place. He may have the best shortstop in the state on his team but can't play him due to school politics.  The Principles kid also plays SS, or the town millionaires' kid plays SS, and he just donated money for a new Library wing, or the kid who's parents have already sued the school 3 times plays SS.  Being a HS coach can sometimes have limits that the general public is not aware of.

 

Agree 100% with Branson on this.  Recruits today don't typically get exposure through high school.  It is all done through travel teams.  Do have any travel team background on these players?  For me, that would be much more telling about their competitive level and experiences than high school coaches evaluation and playing time.

 

Also, in your example you referenced an Ivy commit.  I'm going to point out the obvious that an Ivy commit also has to have the academics to back up his recruitment and eventual admissions.  Also, there are various levels of Ivy commit.  Some are genuine D1 talents while others are still developing.

The two Power 5 kids played for top travel teams. And a good part of this is likely what CaCO3Girl referenced as #1 -- we're in the same general area as Golden Sombrero and these are schools in the largest classification. But it just seemed weird to me -- especially the Power 5 kids (no knock on the Ivy, but as you point out academics is a huge factor). But given the examples everyone provided, it's clear that this isn't all that unusual.

 

Agree with slugger.  A lot of bad coaches out there.  But I also agree with others sometimes there are just too many arms.  Hard to tell what will happen four years from now but as of now where my son will go to high school there is a freshman (hasn't thrown a single pitch in hs yet) who hit 85 at a showcase.  His younger brother hit 82 as a 13u last season (2020, in my son's class).  Another three kids in the 70's as 13u's.  And those are just that I know of personally.  With any normal progress that should be five kids 80+ and very possibly 2 or 3 90+ when my son is a junior.  With some rainouts lets say they play 20 or 22 games...  how many pitchers do you need?  There could be one or two really good pitchers seeing scant innings.  And we are NOT in a baseball hotbed.  So its really not that hard to envision a scenario where a kid pitches 6 innings as a junior and still goes D1.

Really difficult to look ahead 4 yrs. my advice is live in moment and watch sons arm. Injuries happen all the time, and many kids never make it to any level of college for various reasons. I've seen kids around here be studs in HS then get burnt out and just want to go to college and have  a good time. 

D1 is not end all be all. It works for some, but you'll see a lot of players transfer for another opportunity, usually more playing time. Player needs to find right fit for them. For some its D2 or good academic D3. JuCo is also a great opportunity. Many get drafted out of those schools. 

Find a good Summer team, and have son look seriously at colleges he may want to attend by Jr. Yr.