D2, D3 state schools with no money to give...why bother?

One huge benefit of being an athlete is that coaches can help a player gain admissions to a top academic school (could be D3, Ivy or a D1 school like Stanford) that might otherwise be out of reach (or very low odds) for the student.  Many people find this is a more valuable option than getting an athletic scholarship to a school that offers a mediocre education.

You are looking for the best combination of right academics, right social fit, budgetary fit, baseball fit.  As example, an in-state school with no athletic $ but otherwise fits may be a far better choice (and actually less expensive) than an out-of-state or private offering 50% athletic.  And, 100% athletic is meaningless if not offering the right major or the kid doesn't fit in the environment or the baseball team sucks and he'll be miserable.  Don't look at athletic $ offer on its own.  Find the bottom line financially and find the right fit with all other things considered.  

Even at the D1 level there really is’nt a ton of money. Not like football. The right school and right Baseball opportunity mixed with the right financial commitment is the right fit. 

A friend of ours son played for a D3, has no baseball money at all, and is at his dream school! Cherry on the top is the Baseball opportunity! 

Many state schools have less money for out of state students, since they're subsidized with tax dollars.  I'm sure they offer first and consider your ability to pay afterwards.  Plus, private schools offering money may still cost more, or comparable, than the state school offering none.

Going through this myself, it's a difficult balance.  I would let the offers pile up, and then discuss finances afterwards.

CatcherDadNY posted:

So..my son has been contacted by, among others, several D2 and D3 state schools as the top guy on their list..problem is we are out of state and they say we can't  qualify for instate tuition and their programs are not fully funded at the D2 schools and the D3s have no money to give by rule...only the top academic students will qualify for scholarship money they say..my son's grades are very good but not top of the scale..question is why would a recruit even bother with these programs when essentially you are doing all of the extra work required of a college athlete for nothing in return?..I have instructed my son to politely frame that question to various coaches in his reply and to ask what is the typical amount that can be provided to out of state recruits..your thoughts on how to proceed?..btw..he is receiving offers from private schools that are offering money..thanks in advance.

I dunno...let's go to the question of what would he choose without baseball? The "extra work" is what you need to do to have the privilege of playing. Your post seems extremely entitled and self-centered...what does the school get by giving a "not-top-of-the-scale" student scholarship money in a non-revenue sport?

CatcherDadNY posted:

why would a recruit even bother with these programs when essentially you are doing all of the extra work required of a college athlete for nothing in return?

He gets to play more baseball. Until you have a solid commitment in hand, I'd be careful what options I cross off the table.

Schools compete for athletes, the good ones, and it's not entitled or self centered to recognize that and realize that at some level recruitment is a game that is played on both sides...not unlike that which is played on the field..yes it's a privilege to play, the choice where to do so includes an evaluation of many factors..opportunity to compete for playing time, academics, location, campus facilities, coaches, and yes, cost of attendance...nothing entitled about that..why some D2 state schools would only fund only a mere fraction of their allotted NCAA money and then seek to recruit out of state players at full retail price is beyond me.

CatcherDadNY posted:

.why some D2 state schools would only fund only a mere fraction of their allotted NCAA money and then seek to recruit out of state players at full retail price is beyond me.

There are a number of factors that contribute to this.  First, other then football and basketball, and then only at the P5 schools, there is no money being made in college sports.  At the D2 level all sports are operating at a loss for the school.  They need to make decisions based on funding the university, not just the sports programs.  Thus most schools choose not to fully fund D2 athletics.

Secondly, the majority of college athletes are not on scholarship.  Across the D1 and D2 level about 40% of the athletes are not receiving any athletic aid.  Remove basketball and football and it grows to something like 80%.  Across D1, D2 and D3 only 35% of athletes are receiving athletic aid.

Third, all across the economic spectrum there are folks who can afford to send their kids to out of state schools.  Obviously at the top end folks can afford the $40,000 to send a kid out of state. But at the lower end, and even to some extent in the middle classes, folks find a way to pay for it.  College funding is largely based on how much you can afford to pay.  It doesn't really matter where you go to school.  The FAFSA formula determines your expected financial contribution.  The schools then use that to determine how much financial aid and loans to provide you.  So if the FAFSA determines that you can pay $10,000 a year toward college and your cost of college is $40,000 the schools will offer an aid package to you to make up the difference ($30,000).  This is for both in state and out of state students.  Preference is given to in state students, but there is usually enough money for the out of state students as well.

Next, there are some specialties that are only offered at a few smaller schools across the country.  Say you want to go into Geology with an eye towards working in the oil industry.  Colorado School of Mines, Michigan Tech, and a couple of other smaller schools are your choices.  If you want to do this and play baseball your choice of schools are limited to some smaller schools that don't offer much athletic aid.

Add in states like IL where the premier B1G university costs instate residents as much as it does to go to other B1G universities out of state, and you have many families who say, "heck its costing me the same to go to the D2 schools out of state and my kid can play ball"

Finally, there are some kids who just want to play college sports.  They do not care if they are getting a scholarship.  The family goes into it with the attitude of we will find a way to make this work.  IMO, this is a bad strategy but many folks do it.

Add all these factors up and the population of kids who are willing at accept an offer at an out of state D2 or a D3 school.

Thanks..great answer.

I can help with that because I have asked the same question of P5's.  The answer is:

Because there are players willing to do it.  I cannot see how some kids afford to go to school out of state when those schools cannot waive the out of state fees.  My middle son was offered at his dream school, UNC at 49% which was a good offer for them.  Out of state tuition was $80,000.  He would have come out owing $160,000 plus.  How do you pay that back, especially when his dream was/is to be a college coach?  But you look down the rosters and see it every day.  I don't understand unless most parents have set aside a lot more for college than I have been able to.  I told my boys their college fund was in their bat bag or local state schools. 

when the gov started backing student loans, the cost of college sky rocketed.  the next bubble. 

PitchingFan posted:

I can help with that because I have asked the same question of P5's.  The answer is:

Because there are players willing to do it.  I cannot see how some kids afford to go to school out of state when those schools cannot waive the out of state fees.  My middle son was offered at his dream school, UNC at 49% which was a good offer for them.  Out of state tuition was $80,000.  He would have come out owing $160,000 plus.  How do you pay that back, especially when his dream was/is to be a college coach?  But you look down the rosters and see it every day.  I don't understand unless most parents have set aside a lot more for college than I have been able to.  I told my boys their college fund was in their bat bag or local state schools. 

North Carolina?  Out of state tuition is $35k a year no?

Sorry but the facts don't lie. Tuition, plus room and board, plus books, plus meal plan.  The numbers came straight from their RC. 

One of his friends took the deal the same year after son said no.  He walked away with a bill of $172,356 according to dad for four years with all expenses.  But he says he would not trade it for anything.  They could afford it.

Believe it or not, some parents save for 18 years or more to pay for college and factor in the worst or most expensive options (depending on your perspective) to pay for it. I have to believe the request for your FASFA and income data will give them a clear picture of what folks can afford. College is a privilege, playing sports in college exaggerates that...add in high academic, P5 and/or the best programs in the country and that only gets harder to get a spot, unless you can pay your way.

PitchingFan posted:

Sorry but the facts don't lie. Tuition, plus room and board, plus books, plus meal plan.  The numbers came straight from their RC. 

One of his friends took the deal the same year after son said no.  He walked away with a bill of $172,356 according to dad for four years with all expenses.  But he says he would not trade it for anything.  They could afford it.

       

•                                            TUITION FEES TOTAL
• Full Load 12 and above $ 16,601.00 $ 983.75 $ 17,584.75
• Triple/Quadruple Occupancy:  $3,240/student/semester ($6,480/year)

• Unlimited Plan

  OUR MOST POPULAR PLAN

  $2,290

  I agree facts don't lie.  UNC is nowhere near $80k a year.  Posted above are the coming years numbers which are of course higher than the past years.  The total for two semesters of tuition plus fees, housing and the most expensive unlimited meal plan is $46k, not cheap but nowhere near $80k.  

Playing baseball provides you with an instantaneous support group, family and fraternity.  If you go to college and join a fraternity that is even more money added to the budget.  Think of baseball as an internship that not everybody can qualify for.

If you want to succeed in life, baseball is providing those skills and opportunities that regular students do not get.  Life is an investment in time and money.  No risk No reward.  Depending on the schools, there can be an extensive list of perks for student athletes.  Inside track for work study jobs, travel, lodging, activities.

The older generation is worried about the Millenials.  Lack of social skills, interactions, communication, work ethic, time management, responsibility and being prompt.  Employers love student-athletes,  they have all those qualities and are natural leaders.  Life is a contact sport, initiate and maintain contact.  

If none of this makes sense to you, then just go to the nearest commuter college and get a standard degree at a standard school and move forward.

For those of us who survived the maze of matching up the various competing factors of academic interests, baseball opportunity, and financial impact, I believe that most would answer that you do not rule any coach/program or school out where there is mutual interest until you get to the final decision point. 

If you set out with a goal that there needs to be baseball money to make it work, your options are going to be far and few between unless your son is really gifted and likely to be drafted in the high rounds by MLB.  Even at the P5 D1 schools, remember there are at least 8 players of 35 who are getting no athletic money, and yet there are kids at the those schools filling those spots who could have gotten money at other schools.  And some of them may be paying out-of-state tuition just to be on the team as a walk-on.

You are correct that all college baseball programs must compete for athletes in recruiting, and some schools can successfully lure kids even without having baseball money to offer.  The athlete and his family must decide what is their priority and then make the decision.  If affordability is the main factor, then be honest up front with coaches but then give them a chance to indicate if they have somebody in the financial aid office who can discuss options.  I fully agree with IowaMom23--do not eliminate any legitimate interest until you are sure you have a better option.

Why would some kid do it? Maybe because he likes to play baseball? Wants to impress girls on the campus? Get invited to the cool parties?

Also at at lower D3 level it sometimes might be almost a bit like "pay to play".some parents can pay for college and just want their kid to play on college. Kid still needs a certain level for D3 but the recruiter can get a slightly weaker but still ok player which parents pay for school rather than a guy who needs a scholarship. This makes it a bit like pay to play because the more well off families can afford no scholarship.

D1 is different of course.

Backstop22 posted:

For those of us who survived the maze of matching up the various competing factors of academic interests, baseball opportunity, and financial impact, I believe that most would answer that you do not rule any coach/program or school out where there is mutual interest until you get to the final decision point. 

If you set out with a goal that there needs to be baseball money to make it work, your options are going to be far and few between unless your son is really gifted and likely to be drafted in the high rounds by MLB.  Even at the P5 D1 schools, remember there are at least 8 players of 35 who are getting no athletic money, and yet there are kids at the those schools filling those spots who could have gotten money at other schools.  And some of them may be paying out-of-state tuition just to be on the team as a walk-on.

You are correct that all college baseball programs must compete for athletes in recruiting, and some schools can successfully lure kids even without having baseball money to offer.  The athlete and his family must decide what is their priority and then make the decision.  If affordability is the main factor, then be honest up front with coaches but then give them a chance to indicate if they have somebody in the financial aid office who can discuss options.  I fully agree with IowaMom23--do not eliminate any legitimate interest until you are sure you have a better option.

110% agree with Backstop22.   This is a decision that many of us go through.   You've got to figure out what is most important to you and your family situation.  Typical factors include academics, athletic and financial.  Over the years, I've met many people on this site and it boils down to those three factors and there is always one factor more important than the rest.  Some people have decided against college baseball, because they didn't get the right situation for them.   My oldest son told me that he was willing to walk away from baseball (a game he loves) for academics if he was not able to handle both.  That told me what he was most interested in.    Once you figure out which factor it is for you then the decision becomes easier.