D2 Likely - D1 Waiting? Bird in the hand?

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The question is a fairly complicated one because there are so many variables involved. There are D2 programs out there that blow away many D1 teams out there in terms of talent. Tampa is a good example that routinely has 1/2 dozen or so players drafted each year whereas some D1's never have anyone drafted let alone win more than a few games each year.

The question I ask - would you rather lose or sit the bench on a D1 team or win and contribute on a D2 team? Go to a place where the coach adores your son and will develop him. Go to a place that values winning and teamwork. The D1 thing will get old in a hurry if all they do is lose and/or your son does not get on to the playing field. If the D1's are lukewarm, it might be an indication of his future playing prospects.

One other thing to keep in mind. It's easy to overepresent what the levels mean. For instance, D1 does not imply they are twice the talent of D2 or three times the talent of D3. College baseball is a challenge no matter the level. Find the best fit and that often has to do with how hard the coach pursues him.

If by the early siging period he has a solid offer in hand, I am not sure some D1 is going to all of a sudden fall in love with him the last few months of his high school career. If they do, it might be that lukewarm type interest mentioned above or a coach who has lost a more desired player covering his roster at the last instant. Either way, future playing time could be in serious jeopardy in that circumstance. On the other hand, the D2 coach will not wait forever. You could blow the opportunity of a lifetime by playing them for a perceived better opportunity.

That is great advice CD (as usual). If he is excited about the D2 and you both feel that it is a good fit I think that the D2 would be your best option. Good luck and keep us posted!

quote:

"So, my question is: Should an offer get worked out with the D2 school by early signing timeframe, how long should my son wait to sign in case a D1 school's situation breaks where they may contact my son? What further complicates this is that one of D1 coaches actually stated that their recruiting often doesn't finish until early spring... So this really leaves us wondering what to do!"

Welcome to HSBBWeb!

First, I would NOT let your son let up one bit on his recruiting efforts. I would encourage him to double his efforts as he has initial interst from some schools. Try to parlay that into more interest from the schools your familiar with, as well as new schools.

Second, I would review goal(s) with son. What is it that he wants out of these four years? What is the priority, and what is secondary goals.

Third, I would re-read Cleveland Dad's post as I couldnt agree more. All of these factors contributed one way or another to people we know playing college baseball today. Many of my son's friends (freshmen year completed) wanted to go to the most competitive D1 school possible to be developed to go pro. Many of these freshmen sat the bench this past year, but they will have a shot next year or the following year to earn big time D1 baseball playing time. Most went into this situation knowing what to expect in terms of playing time....some even went to the college world series this year. I'll contrast that with my son who decided to go to a school where he had an opportunity to play all 4 years. It is a lower tier D1, and he has no aspirations of going pro at this time. His reasoning is that if he is going to miss academic class time, he wants it to be because he is PLAYING something he loves (not sitting the bench). Neither is right or wrong, but gets tied back to goals.

Best of luck in your son's recruiting efforts!

As long as the academic fit is right and it seems to be where you want to be, sometimes the best advise is to "go where you are wanted."

With that being said, about that bird in the hand comment...

quote:

Originally posted by BaseballMaze:
Should an offer get worked out with the D2 school by early signing timeframe, how long should my son wait to sign in case a D1 school's situation breaks where they may contact my son?

Not sure how you mean "sign", but a player can sign a NLI between Nov 9, 2011, and Nov 16, 2011. The next opportunity to actually sign (as opposed to reaching a verbal agreement) is April 11, 2012.

We sometimes read of highly sought after basketball players who still haven't made up their minds at the early signing date, and multiple schools send NLI offers to them. Baseball recruiting doesn't work that way--at the early signing date, schools and recruits have reached an understanding, and if a player is to be offered a NLI, only one school offers. If a player hasn't already verbally agreed to attend a school, they won't send him a NLI.

So when a player gets a verbal offer before the early signing date, there is an explicit or implied deadline to decide, and I think a decision is required before, say, Nov 1. If the player doesn't say "yes" by then, the odds are that the offer won't be made again. The school will have moved on to other players.

Baseball Maze, I think you should take a two-step approach:

First, find a well-respected baseball guy in your area to give your son an honest assessment of where his talent-level lies. It may be a "dream" of your son to play at the highest levels of college baseball, but is that dream a reality?

Second, if it is a reality, if he definitely has D1 tools, I would quickly have your son make contact with any area D1's expressing his interest, giving them his summer schedule. Your son may very well get a D1 offer if they come to see him play and he plays well.

One big benefit of playing at the D1 level is the opportunity to play top-level summer baseball. It is harder to find spots for the smaller school players. Usually it would be a case of a top local talent "filling" the roster at first on a 10-day contract and then, if he performs, he can make the team permanently (usually in a subsequent year).

CD gives you solid advice. But closing the door early on D1's could be a mistake, too. It all starts with knowing your son's ability.

Great responses all - very much appreciated. So..in response to most recent reply..can we assume that it's at least possible to get multiple verbal offers before the November early NLI date? And secondly, is there some sort of "clearinghouse" registering offerred and/or accepted verbal offers? I guess I'm wondering to what degree colleges are aware of which other colleges are making verbal offers?

Additionally, is it adviseable if a verbal offer is made by D2 school to then contact the one or two D1 schools at that point who have shown some interest to inform them of said D2 offer to see if any other offer will be made? Or are all the offers made in some uniform period of time where you already know that you're seeing everything that's coming (at least before the early NLI date).

Pretty difficult to give advice w/o seeing your kid play and knowing the schools involved. In my area on the west coast most of the d2 schools don't have many freshman on their roster let alone playing. Most of the playing rosters are made up of transfers. Not sure if the d2 you are talking about is one of those. My advice is that if your not 100% sure about the coach don't go, your son have other options later on in addition to "punting" (JC).

btw, the d2 hasn't made an offer yet so I wouldn't count on anythinbg from them at this point and would proceed on the assumption that they won't make any kind of offer, walk-on or otherwise.

can we assume that it's at least possible to get multiple verbal offers before the November early NLI date? Yes.

And secondly, is there some sort of "clearinghouse" registering offerred and/or accepted verbal offers? I guess I'm wondering to what degree colleges are aware of which other colleges are making verbal offers? No clearinghouse, but baseball is a small world. Also most colleges pursue recruits in a relatively narrow range of ability. If a player is much better than the typical player at their school, they won't bother to recruit him. They also can expect that other schools will have a similar perception of the player, and can guess who may be recruiting him.

Additionally, is it adviseable if a verbal offer is made by D2 school to then contact the one or two D1 schools at that point who have shown some interest to inform them of said D2 offer to see if any other offer will be made? Sure. Or are all the offers made in some uniform period of time where you already know that you're seeing everything that's coming (at least before the early NLI date). Schools offer first to their first choice players, and move on to other players later. The timing of this depends on the baseball level of the school (the elite programs are already primarily focused on 2013 players), how a given player fits into their player rankings and needs, and on the responses from earlier offers. If the player is still being seen at fall showcases, the school's ranking of the player could change, leading to more interest.

Typically the player is encouraged to make an unofficial visit, and the coach may make an verbal offer then. The player pays for an unoffical visit, but it is arranged in advance so that the coaching staff can give a tour, etc.

My son had the D-1 dreams, and by fall of his senior year had lots of contacts by D-1's but nothing beyond letters and an occasional call. He had a lot of D-3 calls. I called a D-1 assistant coach that I had gotten to know fairly well and simply asked him what he thought, all things considered. At the time, my son was leaning hard toward a D-3 where his brother already played, but like so many, had the "Rosenblatt Dream". The coach told me he had the talent to play at many D-1's, including some of the ones he had heard from, but that in all likelihood he would be a "late pickup", and he felt the D-3 was a fine program and would be a good fit. He felt any money he got would be minimal as he was a "projectable athlete that hadn't fully filled out". He went to the D-3, and had a wonderful experience that couldn't have been better.

Your kid's makeup can be a factor too. Mine was not the patient type and couldn't have sat well on anyone's bench, at any level, for any length of time-it's just not in him.

You just can't get better advice than what you are receiving here.

Thus, why this is the best interactive baseball website out there.

Good luck to you and your son during this process.

Enjoy and make it fun for the both of you.

YGD

In addition to the team, academics play a big part of this decision as well. Does the school have the majors he is interested in? And is it a respected school in those majors? Does he like the atmosphere of the school? If not, he probably won't be happy there. If the answer is yes, then he might want to go for it.

Generally, D2's are not as good academically as D1's or D3's because they tend to be the B state schools, but that's not always the case.

As for playing time, I will pass on a piece of advice we received from a friend who was an MLB player and currently trains many of the top MLB hitters in the game and has sent off a bunch of HS players to successful college careers. . ."better to be a lion in the jungle than a rat!" Once you're out of the top 50 or so D1's, your chances of getting drafted are pretty much the same at a D1, D2 or a top d3 or NAIA. For example, Trinity a D3 in TX has sent 3 off to the minors in the last few years. So go where he'll be a lion, he'll get noticed a lot more.

quote:

For example, Trinity a D3 in TX has sent 3 off to the minors in the last few years. So go where he'll be a lion, he'll get noticed a lot more.

FYI,
None of those 3 from Trinity was considered to be a lion coming out of HS by anyone other than the TU coaching staff.
The head coach saw things that staffs at every level from DI to Juco didn't.
They coached the heck out of those 3 and many more surrounding them.
Those 3 did a ton of work, made about every sacrifice needed along the way, improved a ton, got some luck along the way and were driven by the coaches and teammates. Combine those efforts with great Summer league placements in the CPL, Valley and NECBL, along with coaches talking with scouts, and each interacted with the others resulting in each getting drafted and competing successfully in Milb.
I have said this so many, many times: in my view, DI vs DII vs DIII isn't the important factor for most players who are not heading to top 40 type programs.
The most important thing every other player and parent should consider, after the quality of the education for the cost of that education, is does the coach want my son and how well will my son be coached?
The quality of the coaching isn't always measured by the level at which the coaching is done.
Many DIII coaches would be tremendously successful at the DI level and some DI coaches might struggle at the DIII level.
How good is the coaching staff: that should be a major factor once the education and cost are satisfied!!!

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:
FYI,
None of those 3 from Trinity was considered to be a lion coming out of HS by anyone other than the TU coaching staff.

You are completely wrong with this statement!

None of those 3 from Trinity was considered to be a lion TIGER coming out of HS by anyone other than the TU coaching staff.

I don't know them, but I would venture to say, they might not have been D1 Tigers, but they were probably D2 or D3 Tigers coming out. . .else Trinity would have left them for someone else.

I have noticed that the perennial greats in D3 seem to make their living off of outstanding scouting and player development. So much of recruiting in baseball is word of mouth and reputation from an early age. I consistently see good players missed because they don't have the connections or reputations from an early age, or the money to go to the big events to try to make up for the lack of reputation or connections. And lesser players picked up because they do.

quote:

I have noticed that the perennial greats in D3 seem to make their living off of outstanding scouting and player development.

Boy, I could not agree more. What a great observation. To have full disclosure, our son was the first of those 3 TU draftees. That didn't happen because of our son, it happened because Coach Scannell looked at him among 150 or so players at the Stanford Camp and saw things most didn't, even our son and us.
The ability of a coaching staff to recognize talent which can be developed is so critical in college baseball. I have sat at the Stanford Camp and listened/watched coaches. It is pretty darn amazing how they can all look at the same player for a short period and make judgements. What is equally interesting is how often the ones who are right continue to make good judgements over many years and within a group in each year.
The ability to judge talent and upside which is talent combined with upside is a special coaching talent.
Once they do that, developing that talent is an equal skill and talent.
For programs which don't over recruit or get rid of kids who don't perform, they cannot miss. A couple of misses and they really struggle for more than one year.

Jones I am playing a bit with infieldad since my son will be attending Trinity next year. What coach Scannel said to us during our visit was that they focus on D1 players who have fallen through the cracks for whatever reason and also high academic players who can get better academic deals than athletic. We saw them scrimmage two times prior to committing and there are plenty of D1 players on their roster and like many high level D3 teams, they could beat many D1 teams, they tend however to not have the pitching depth of a D1 squad. In my son’s case he had a number of D1 options but did not commit early and that is when Trinity kicked in. They saw him at the Stanford camp and then again in at the Az Fall Classic, and once he did not commit in Nov they started talking to him about their program.