D3 money

Very few, if any, of the truly elite D3 schools award merit money at all. Aid at those schools is based typically on the student’s financial need. 

My understanding is that D3 schools that do provide merit money are not supposed to offer that money just because a kid is good at baseball.

I have two D3 kids and not a merit penny between them. Even with generous grants we still need student loans to cover costs.

Others on site may have more complete info. 

The D3 school my son goes to offered a very generous amount of merit money...it is considered a top D3 program both in baseball and his education program as well.

I shoulda had my kids apply there, Phillyinnj!

Does your "elite" d3 school mean - elite academically or athletically ;-)... I don't believe merit money has anything to do with need. 

Consider that the better academic schools attract some very smart students to apply. Those elite students would seemingly get a lion share of grants or merit money. After all, in order for the school to remain in that elite class it needs to attract/retain those students because as a school you feel they could be "leaders" some day (and of course you bank on them giving back).

So unless your athlete is in the top group of students, they are "fighting for" whatever grant money is left over. It's the economics of supply and demand.  If you're a baseball player going to an academically elite d3 school, then one would assume you're not going there because you think it's a stepping stone to the MLB. It might be the stepping stone to your career though. It should get you in the front door or ahead of other applicants for your first interview/job.

I had two d3 athletes going to stronger academically d3 schools (Tufts/Muhlenberg). Neither at the top of their HS class academically. They each got some merit money, but each ended up with student loans. They need to have a stake in things - they're smart, they'll know why. There's *lots* scholarship money/grants available if your student takes the time to write essays or apply. Every 500-1000 adds up over time. BTW: I don't miss FAFSA applications or CSS Profile colonoscopies .

Thank you all for replying. 

At the tippy top D3s, no merit money.

At the tippy top D3s, good financial aid (much of it being grants) is available. Those schools each have their own financial calculations which will differ from FAFSA calculations. Start with the calculators on each respective schools websites. Recognize that the calculators give only the most general results and each family's financial condition is different - e.g., a w2 family is different from a self-employed family even if the AGI is identical. If you get so far as a school expressing recruiting interest, ask the recruiter about FA. Don't be shy; very few families believe they can pay 70k a year, so these FA questions do not harm a kid's recruiting chances (these schools are all need blind).

FA can be financially planned for; there are legit ways to get more but some years of financial planning will need to be done. There are private FA experts who can give advice.

While most schools are pretty fungible in giving their graduates job opportunities, the tippy top schools give their graduates HUGE headstarts in certain fields (think Investment Banking, Consulting). Those head starts take many years to fade and the salaries made during that time more than make up for the college costs. (Top students [say top 5 - 10%] at virtually any school have the same opportunities, but it's very, very hard for a baseball player to devote enough time and energy to both have a powerhouse major and top grades to finish in the top 5 - 10%.) 

We began financial planning when #1 was entering his sophomore year and acted on the plan by 12/31 of that year. Made a huge difference in our ability to pay. Still paid a lot and lowered our standard of living during their college years (six years total). The jobs they both have started well above their COA and the raises - well, let's say the raises handily beat inflation.

Don't knock out any school due to financial concerns - until you've well understood and researched the issue.

Think of it this way: you're leveraging his baseball skills into a "higher" school so he can get a headstart on most of the world. 

Some D3 schools, excellent schools (but not the very most competitive for admissions - is that what you mean by "elite"?), offer generous academic merit money, if your SAT scores are well above the schools' averages.  There is definitely a sweet spot in the long list of D3 schools, if your son qualifies on the academic and athletic front, but it's not that easy to figure out.  One way to find it, is to look first for % acceptance (the lower the %, the less likely they will give academic merit money at all - from our research, perhaps merit money begins about a 33% acceptance rate?).  Then look at the school's mean SAT/ACT scores and GPAs, and see where your son compares - the more he is above the average, the more money he may receive.  Then look at the D3 baseball rankings if you want to think about its baseball program, or compare it to US News rankings.

D3 schools, by definition, are NOT allowed to offer money for athletic prowess. I've lost track how many times I have heard that they do- usually from proud/bragging parents- but if a D3 school were to be caught giving money to an athlete simply because of his or her skills on the field then they would be disciplined by the NCAA, or at least the governing body of the league that they are playing in. In other words, what D3 school is going to risk having their entire program suspended in order to get an athlete on a team? Let's face it, unlike big time D1 sports, D3 sports simply doesn't make money, and the prestige involved in winning a Championship is small potatoes. Simply not worth the risk.

   Most of the very top D3 schools do not offer merit money, either. I'm talking about Amherst, Williams, Swathmore, Chicago, Caltech, etc... some very good schools schools like Grinnell do. The merit money must be tied to academic performance, not athletic, however. 

Isn't merit money entirely based on GPA/SAT scores and non discretionary? Meaning the coach doesn't have an allotment of money to offer athletes. So coaches can't come up with the money, but if the student meets the university's qualifications for the merit money he gets it. Either way I'm pretty sure only the students in the top 10% are getting any money. That is how you lure the top students away from bigger, more brand name HA schools - you give them merit money to come to the school. 

I'm not sure if you mean elite academically or athletically, but once you get down to the D3 level you just want to find the best education that you can play at and afford. I wouldn't go shopping or expecting any financial offers from coaches. 

57special posted:

   Most of the very top D3 schools do not offer merit money, either. I'm talking about Amherst, Williams, Swathmore, Chicago, Caltech, etc... some very good schools schools like Grinnell do. The merit money must be tied to academic performance, not athletic, however. 

   

Grinnell is an example of what I mean by a sweet spot.  Admissions rate 29% (according to Prepscholar), average SAT 1410, US News ranked #11 in liberal arts colleges, website (and 57special!) says they offer merit money.  They are directly aiming at students who might get into more selective schools that have no academic merit money.  Baseball program highly regarded.   I agree with the others that merit money will be given based on the academic application, not on a coach's request - but, if your son has the academic qualifications, then this is the kind of school that is good to know about.

When I mean elite, I meant schools that are comparable to Ivies in academics.  Williams, Amherst, MIT, etc...  So no merit money at all at schools like that.   Sorry this is a bit crass but im guessing there is no way a family with 5+million in assets (only 1.5 in retirement accounts) can finagle their accounts to get financial aid to knock the price down. 

"Sorry this is a bit crass but im guessing there is no way a family with 5+million in assets (only 1.5 in retirement accounts) can finagle their accounts to get financial aid to knock the price down."

You're guess is incorrect.

For example, the family's home typically isn't included. In some areas that's over $1 million. Retirement assets aren't generally included. Additionally, many small businesses (under 50 employees) valuations aren't included - even though there is clear worth. Want to expand that business?  Capital improvement timing can help (so, advancing those investments can dramatically lower your AGI). If you own other real estate, the valuation assigned isn't Fair Market Value; the value is based upon a quick (emergency type) sale. Debts can be included. The costs of multiple kids in college or private HSs can be included in modeling cash flow. Some schools use cash flow, others use net worth with some major adjustments.

It's a complex and opaque area.

That is what experts in the field bring to the table: what you and I consider as our net worth isn't what schools' consider. I'm not saying your hypothetical family would get FA; I'm saying an expert will tell you.

Now, a family with 300k in net cash flow is different from one with 100k in NCF. Each could have the same net worth; each will have different reads from schools. One family with $5 million in assets and 4.9 million in debt - like one owning a small business upon which personal guarantees of biz loans is typcial - isn't the same as a family with 3 million in unencumbered assets.

Sure, if a family can easily afford to pay full sticker a college has a right to expect them to pay full sticker, so FA funds can be used for less well-off students.  BTW I believe that most colleges do not count your primary home when they count your assets.  Also they consider income, of course, as well future earning potential. So let's say you had a 2 million in your house, 1.5 M in other non-retirement assets, and you were 60+ with little or no wage income.   You might get some aid.

Edit - Goose Egg beat me to it.

Are the decisions about FA made based upon the FAFSA?  If so, when is the FAFSA due?  

Seems like an incredibly compressed timeline for a lot of important decisions (even without baseball being factored in).

fafsa.com

Available October 1, for the following academic year.

It’s not as bad as it used to be. You can now use your tax return from two years prior. Ex: applying for aid for 2019-20 school year you are able to use the tax return you filed for 2017. You used to have to use the prior year and the deadlines came fast and furious.

For a rising college freshman you’ll know financial aid packages about a month or so before you have to pick a school. 

If you go ED, which a lot of D3 players do, especially high academic kids, you’re making your commitment on faith, hope, love. But the greatest of these is faith. 

The FAFSA is made available in early October, you can fill it out any time.  When it is due depends on the school.  Many private schools also require something called the CSS Profile, which requires much the same info as the FAFSA, plus more stuff, it's unique to each school.  Some want to know what cars you drive.  Some want to know the value of your house. 

Most schools have an EFC (Expected Family Contribution) calculator on their financial aid website.  You can fill it out with your FAFSA/CSS information, and it will estimate your EFC for that school.  Cost of Attendance (COA) minus EFC = amount of need-based aid you might be offered.   The amounts vary between schools, even with exactly the same financial information. 

You're going to have to fill out these forms anyway, so you might as well gather the information now and do the estimates.  We found the estimates to be fairly close to what the financial aid result actually was.  At least it gives you an idea, especially if you are taking that leap of faith.

Most private colleges will require you to complete the CSS profile in addition to the FAFSA, which asks for a lot more financial information.

If you want more information about paying for college, I would recommend the book Paying For College Without Going Broke by Kalman Chany.

To be sure of significant merit aid at private colleges, you really want to be in the top 25% in terms of test scores and grades for last years' entering freshman class.  You can find this (and a lot of other) information on any college's common data set, which they are required to post somewhere for the public to see each year.

For example, here is Williams' most recent common data set:

https://provost.williams.edu/f...1819_w_section_g.pdf

As you can see from section C9 of the report, last year's top quartile was 1550 for the SAT and 35 for the ACT.  If your kid is at or above that score, you can expect some merit aid.  You can basically think of it as them buying your son's test score or GPA to boost their US News and World Report ranking.

All that said, a private college's sticker price is not the real price for most people.  At many colleges, only 10% of the students are paying the sticker price.  The average tuition discount is about 50%.  As an average, obviously, some get more and some get less.  If you want more, make sure your kid's test scores are in the top quartile for the school you're looking at.   

You're saying Williams gives merit aid?

JCG posted:

You're saying Williams gives merit aid?

No, I'm not.  I was just showing Williams' CDS as an example. 

If you look at the CDS, you'll see that Williams gives no non-need-based aid.  However, they meet 100% of need, that their average scholarship/grant aid is $56,933, and that while 40% of their students have taken out student loans, their average debt is only $15,496, which is very low.  That's about $4,000 per year, which is less than than the $6,000 you can get from a Stafford loan.

So, they aren't calling it merit aid, but a lot of people get need based aid.

As a family who has had to rely on merit aid/non subsidized loans  only for 2 sons I can say that no 2 college FA packages are the same. One must do their due diligence as awards come out after acceptances. Especially true if a player goes ED. 

LuckyCat posted:

If you look at the CDS, you'll see that Williams gives no non-need-based aid.  However, they meet 100% of need, that their average scholarship/grant aid is $56,933, and that while 40% of their students have taken out student loans, their average debt is only $15,496, which is very low.  That's about $4,000 per year, which is less than than the $6,000 you can get from a Stafford loan.

So, they aren't calling it merit aid, but a lot of people get need based aid.

But, just to be clear, that need-based aid at Williams is not dependent on your SAT scores or anything else - once you are admitted, the aid is based on your finances only.  That's important to know - especially if you have an athlete whose scores are not in the top 10%.  Need-based aid is solely based on the FAFSA/CSS.

What I said earlier was, there are some schools where it is true that if your SATs are in the top 10%, you might get merit aid, Grinnell being one example.  That merit aid will have nothing to do with finances, it will be solely based on the academic application.  That is important to know - especially if you have a high-scoring student but you think your income is too high for need-based aid.

Also, depending on certain conditions (like being divorced) going with a school that just uses FAFSA instead of CSS can be an advantage. 

I can second the point that no two financial aid packages are alike. I have two boys going to high academic schools and their packages were not just different but different enough for me to write one of the schools and ask for a review because their package was so much lower than the other package. They ultimately raised the offer but still not to the level of the other school’s offer. There is still a substantial difference. These are two colleges that have practically identical endowments and admission rates.

anotherparent posted:

57special posted:

   Most of the very top D3 schools do not offer merit money, either. I'm talking about Amherst, Williams, Swathmore, Chicago, Caltech, etc... some very good schools schools like Grinnell do. The merit money must be tied to academic performance, not athletic, however. 

   

Grinnell is an example of what I mean by a sweet spot.  Admissions rate 29% (according to Prepscholar), average SAT 1410, US News ranked #11 in liberal arts colleges, website (and 57special!) says they offer merit money.  They are directly aiming at students who might get into more selective schools that have no academic merit money.  Baseball program highly regarded.   I agree with the others that merit money will be given based on the academic application, not on a coach's request - but, if your son has the academic qualifications, then this is the kind of school that is good to know about.

2019 Distribution by State (Where are they from )

Distribution by Position

Team Performance last 5 years

2018 Expense by Sport

Baseball expenses last 10 years.

anotherparent posted:

LuckyCat posted:

If you look at the CDS, you'll see that Williams gives no non-need-based aid.  However, they meet 100% of need, that their average scholarship/grant aid is $56,933, and that while 40% of their students have taken out student loans, their average debt is only $15,496, which is very low.  That's about $4,000 per year, which is less than than the $6,000 you can get from a Stafford loan.

So, they aren't calling it merit aid, but a lot of people get need based aid.

But, just to be clear, that need-based aid at Williams is not dependent on your SAT scores or anything else - once you are admitted, the aid is based on your finances only.  That's important to know - especially if you have an athlete whose scores are not in the top 10%.  Need-based aid is solely based on the FAFSA/CSS.

What I said earlier was, there are some schools where it is true that if your SATs are in the top 10%, you might get merit aid, Grinnell being one example.  That merit aid will have nothing to do with finances, it will be solely based on the academic application.  That is important to know - especially if you have a high-scoring student but you think your income is too high for need-based aid.

Totally agree.  At Williams, your test scores (and everything else) are what get you in.  Their generous aid packages can make it affordable.  Schools like Williams that are committed to meeting 100% of need should not be taken off a kids list because the of the sticker price alone.  And schools like Brown that  are committed to meeting 100% of need and doing it without loans should definitely not be taken off a kids list for that reason.

Grinnell is a great school, and everyone with a high academic baseball player should take a look at it, too.  It's on my son's list.

My point was only that you can learn a lot about a school by pouring over their common data sets, and that information can help you figure out which schools to target despite their frighteningly high sticker prices.

[been traveling so catching up]

w/r/t: income, assets, retirement savings, etc.  For the schools my children went to - those were CSS questions. I had one school that "requested" that I stop contributing to my 401k and that would be enough to cover what I considered a fairly low FA package. I respectfully replied why that was a bad idea and then pointed out that they were using a FA article about my other sons school on their website as reference material. An article which stated that the other school realized education costs were spiraling and made business decisions to add more money into the FA pot and less into other pots in the schools' budget. Having been a (very relieved) recipient of higher FA I wondered back at the FA officer how his school in good conscience could pretend his school had followed a similar formula. He then accused me of being an angry parent - go figure.

w/r/t: ED... Put your thinking cap back on. School has budget for grants/merit money. Coaches absolutely know how much it is and they know the admissions office *very well*. If you're asked to go ED don't you think a possible reason is the coach not only believes in your athletic prowess, but also wants to be sure you get considered early for academic money too.  Early bird gets the worm so to speak. It's been a few years, but IIRC for the incoming ED's you will get a good "read" on what the package will be. If money is a reason/excuse to get out of an ED "contract", then if the school really wants your academic "profile", then adjustments can be made. By profile that's definitely one of those school things - when my middle son was doing his law school shopping a deep south institution kept adjusting it's package because getting a student from NH gave them an interesting profile for the class.