Also keep in mind that all Division III schools are created equal when it comes comes to monies
Hey TR,
Could you expand on that a bit? I don't believe you are implying that all programs will offer the same player the same amount of money, but I am not sure what you are trying to say.
I know you have a lot of experience with D3 program, so your insight is welcome!
Could you expand on that a bit? I don't believe you are implying that all programs will offer the same player the same amount of money, but I am not sure what you are trying to say.
I know you have a lot of experience with D3 program, so your insight is welcome!
Let's put it this way floridafan----I have seen a boy get a 30 % dollar package from one school and at the same time get an 80% dollar package from another school---both on the same criteria---many have sliding dollar allotments depending on the players SAT/ACT scores---a lot can also depend on whether the school is a private or state instituion
Hope that this helps you
Hope that this helps you
Thank you for the clarification!
While it may have been complete coincidence I know two kids who received letters regarding increased academic scholarship to start the following semester within 1) a week of fall ball ending and 2) being told they won starting positions heading into the spring.quote:While I guess it would be possible for someone to earn a starting position and have an increase in a scholarship, as RJM says he has seen, that would be a direct violation of DIII rules. DIII athletes cannot receive that type of recognition. I am not saying it might not be done, or be done with a disguise, but it is a clear and direct violation of DIII rules.
Like I said, if it is not a coincidence and there is any connection between the money and athletic performance, it is a blatant violation of NCAA rules governing DIII.
That is one reason I admired/admire our son's DIII coach. The guy is a wonderful evaluator of talent and a wonderful recruiter.
That combination gets some very, very good players very interested in his school.
Over time, their admission standards have gone up and now they are extremely selective. They are also more stringent on merit based scholarships.
The end result is some of his top recruits do not get admitted.
Some of his top recruits get admitted but don't receive the aid they need or receive from other schools.
Even though his job of recruiting and coaching is made more difficult, he loves DIII, loves his school, and loves his players. He works harder.
Just the other day I learned his school feels they have the very best recruiting class in their history with several freshman projected to start, on a team returning a lot of talent.
Maybe others do it differently.
That does not make it right for the player, the school or the NCAA.
That is one reason I admired/admire our son's DIII coach. The guy is a wonderful evaluator of talent and a wonderful recruiter.
That combination gets some very, very good players very interested in his school.
Over time, their admission standards have gone up and now they are extremely selective. They are also more stringent on merit based scholarships.
The end result is some of his top recruits do not get admitted.
Some of his top recruits get admitted but don't receive the aid they need or receive from other schools.
Even though his job of recruiting and coaching is made more difficult, he loves DIII, loves his school, and loves his players. He works harder.
Just the other day I learned his school feels they have the very best recruiting class in their history with several freshman projected to start, on a team returning a lot of talent.
Maybe others do it differently.
That does not make it right for the player, the school or the NCAA.
I've been reading the information on this site for a while and I hope someone can give me some good advice. My son is a senior getting attention from some good in state D3 programs. Problem is, after a while they all start to sound the same. His HS coach isn't helping much - he keeps throwing more schools into the mix. We have been to visit 3 schools, and he has overnight visits scheduled for 2. My question is - what questions should we be asking that would help clear up the fog? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
First of all...let Me be the first to welcome you to HSBBW OH BBMom!
I'm not for certain by re-reading your post who you are wanting to ask questions to. So please bare with me as I try to answer how I think you are posing your question to us.
As you may have already learned either on here or by talking to some of these D3 programs there is NO, zero athletic money given out by D3 schools. It's all academic monies in various ways. With your sons SAT/ACT scores, GPA, etc. the coaches should be able to give you some idea what kind of academic money would be available up front. I believe when they see more interest from your son they may be able to come up with other academic financial help.
As far as your HS coach is concerned about throwing in more schools it sounds to me that he is to a degree helping some. These other programs just might be schools that he has connections at. Ask him.
When your son stays overnite he will be able to ask certain questions to the guys, i.e. how are the coaches to practice/play for, how hard is school, study hall, meal plans, etc.
I'm not for certain by re-reading your post who you are wanting to ask questions to. So please bare with me as I try to answer how I think you are posing your question to us.
As you may have already learned either on here or by talking to some of these D3 programs there is NO, zero athletic money given out by D3 schools. It's all academic monies in various ways. With your sons SAT/ACT scores, GPA, etc. the coaches should be able to give you some idea what kind of academic money would be available up front. I believe when they see more interest from your son they may be able to come up with other academic financial help.
As far as your HS coach is concerned about throwing in more schools it sounds to me that he is to a degree helping some. These other programs just might be schools that he has connections at. Ask him.
When your son stays overnite he will be able to ask certain questions to the guys, i.e. how are the coaches to practice/play for, how hard is school, study hall, meal plans, etc.
Thank you for the welcome and the info! I was aware that any money from D3 is academic money. Son's GPA is 3.56 and ACT 26 (he just retook the test in Dec.). He is eligible for a decent amount of academic aid, which seems to be about the same at all of the schools he is interested in. The question is coming down to which baseball program is right for him. What questions should he be asking on his visits? Are there any "red lights" that would signal a program on its way down? The schools that are interested in him are Heidelberg, Mt. Union, and Ohio Wesleyan. I know traditionally, MUC's program isn't as strong as the other 2, but one of his former HS coaches is now an assistant there, and son feels some loyalty to him.
OH BBMom - My son (2010) was looking at D3's in Minnesota, Oregon and Washington until he recently signed with Jamestown College (NAIA) in North Dakota.
We visited many, many campuses and spent hours looking at college websites. As we visited campuses and checked out websites my son tended to keep his shortlist rather short - just 4-5 schools. This was based on his impression of the campus (including the baseball field of course), the academics available, and whatever other thoughts were swimming around in his 17-year old head.
My point is that his natural inclination was to cross schools off his list rather quickly as he preferred to keep his list of "serious" schools a short one.
Other kids may be comfortable taking serious looks at 30-40 schools.
This leads to my 2nd point - there is no ONE way to handle the recruiting process. We found - through our own experiences as well as the experiences of others that were described on this site - that the recruiting process is often what you make of it. It can take many forms based on many, many variables such as academic goals, financial issues, geography, etc.
Take a look at the D3's your son is interested in. If a new college enters the picture do a little research and then let your son decide if it belongs on his shortlist. Consider as few or as many schools as you can based on you and your son's mutual comfort level.
Relax. Don't let the process overwhelm you. Do tons of research (easy with the internet). Trust your instincts and those of your son.
Ultimately your son's choice will probably come down to whatever school "feels" right to him (with strong consideration to financial factors, of course).
As far as specific questions to ask of college coaches and/or administrators, this site is loaded with suggested questions. Use the "FIND" tool at the top of every page to search for lists of questions.
Good luck. If you have any specific questions about our experiences just let me know.
We visited many, many campuses and spent hours looking at college websites. As we visited campuses and checked out websites my son tended to keep his shortlist rather short - just 4-5 schools. This was based on his impression of the campus (including the baseball field of course), the academics available, and whatever other thoughts were swimming around in his 17-year old head.
My point is that his natural inclination was to cross schools off his list rather quickly as he preferred to keep his list of "serious" schools a short one.
Other kids may be comfortable taking serious looks at 30-40 schools.
This leads to my 2nd point - there is no ONE way to handle the recruiting process. We found - through our own experiences as well as the experiences of others that were described on this site - that the recruiting process is often what you make of it. It can take many forms based on many, many variables such as academic goals, financial issues, geography, etc.
Take a look at the D3's your son is interested in. If a new college enters the picture do a little research and then let your son decide if it belongs on his shortlist. Consider as few or as many schools as you can based on you and your son's mutual comfort level.
Relax. Don't let the process overwhelm you. Do tons of research (easy with the internet). Trust your instincts and those of your son.
Ultimately your son's choice will probably come down to whatever school "feels" right to him (with strong consideration to financial factors, of course).
As far as specific questions to ask of college coaches and/or administrators, this site is loaded with suggested questions. Use the "FIND" tool at the top of every page to search for lists of questions.
Good luck. If you have any specific questions about our experiences just let me know.
quote:Originally posted by OH BBMom:
Thank you for the welcome and the info! I was aware that any money from D3 is academic money. Son's GPA is 3.56 and ACT 26 (he just retook the test in Dec.). He is eligible for a decent amount of academic aid, which seems to be about the same at all of the schools he is interested in. The question is coming down to which baseball program is right for him. What questions should he be asking on his visits? Are there any "red lights" that would signal a program on its way down? The schools that are interested in him are Heidelberg, Mt. Union, and Ohio Wesleyan. I know traditionally, MUC's program isn't as strong as the other 2, but one of his former HS coaches is now an assistant there, and son feels some loyalty to him.
Unless my son was so good that he was a lock to get playing time, I'd lean towards D-3 programs that are lighter on talent and wins--which means a greater likelihood of PT--while having a well-respected and well-liked coach.
My son had a great take on this when he made his selection even if he did go D-I it goes across the board to all divisions---he chose a school in the Big West that was fora number of years in the lower rung of teams--I asked him why he liked the school he chose---he liked the coaches--he liked the campus and as for winning losing his asnwer was simple " They are not winning now so it cannot get worse and I will get a shot to play quickly--plus look who they play outside of the conference"---his first start was against Arizona State in Tempe--
If we leave the choice to them they will make the right choice for their own reasons regardless of the Division classification
If we leave the choice to them they will make the right choice for their own reasons regardless of the Division classification
TR you bring up a great point when choosing a school to play baseball- does the win/loss record really matter to everyone??? My son thought like yours when he chose a school. He wanted the best "fit" overall and really didn't care that they had a losing record. He figured he had more of a shot playing as a freshman with their record (he was right).
But on another high profile college baseball website the posters are all about the win/loss record and trash some schools solely for their w/l record. They don't seem to consider academics or any other factors that make a school more attractive to a kid.
Personally I think the college experience should be more than a good win/loss record. It should be a great educational experience as well as a great athletic experience. Yep, it's more fun to win but there are more pieces to the college puzzle than the w/l record.
Every player is different and they have to look at how they fit into the potential program and decide what is most important to them. Do they want to play fairly soon or sit on the bench?
But on another high profile college baseball website the posters are all about the win/loss record and trash some schools solely for their w/l record. They don't seem to consider academics or any other factors that make a school more attractive to a kid.
Personally I think the college experience should be more than a good win/loss record. It should be a great educational experience as well as a great athletic experience. Yep, it's more fun to win but there are more pieces to the college puzzle than the w/l record.
Every player is different and they have to look at how they fit into the potential program and decide what is most important to them. Do they want to play fairly soon or sit on the bench?
OH BBMOM - Mt Union has 50+ players on their roster - I just looked online at their website. I am thinking they do not cut anyone? Our son too is looking at D3 and from NE Ohio - there is some interest and we will see how Spring baseball plays out. Good luck!
Some, if not most, D3 programs (like NAIA) have JV teams so the roster sizes may look a little skewed at this time of season if they are not seperated (Varsity and JV teams).
Just an FYI.
Just an FYI.
CABB
To me the boy having a great college experience is key--mine went thru a coaching change in his junior year and still had a better than good experience----go to his facebook page some 10 years after graduation and you can see pictures of the weddings of the guys and all the team mates that attended--AND he got his degree and is now a viable employee in the working force--
To me the boy having a great college experience is key--mine went thru a coaching change in his junior year and still had a better than good experience----go to his facebook page some 10 years after graduation and you can see pictures of the weddings of the guys and all the team mates that attended--AND he got his degree and is now a viable employee in the working force--
OH BBMOM - welcome indeed.
If he were going to MU for football, he would be going to the top D3 program in the nation. Baseball is a different story however imho. I watched the D3 football championship between MU and Wisconsin-WW a few weeks back and they had some interesting stats on the school. About 15 years ago, they had a student body of 1100. They hired Coach Larry Keheres, started winning national titles almost evey year, and now the student body has doubled to almost 2200. The interesting thing here is they carry over 200 football players which is about 10% of the entire student body. I only have one question for you and it is rhetorical - which program is getting all the love down there at MU? You might want to consider that for baseball. I think the football coach may also be the AD as well.
Ohio Weslleyan was a regional participant two years back but slipped last year. I am not sure how consistent they have been.
Heidelberg - they have one of the top college coaches in the country imho. The came within one out of going to the D3 college world series just two years ago. They are currently ranked in the top 20 in the nation. They have a small student body of about 1100 but they are known for fine academics as a liberal arts school. I would give them serious consideration if they are interested.
I believe winning is what sports are about and is something to in fact consider. I agree that playing is better than sitting on the bench but winning and playing is better than just playing. Losing gets old in a hurry imho. I agree with everyone else here however, that decision ought to be your son's.
If he were going to MU for football, he would be going to the top D3 program in the nation. Baseball is a different story however imho. I watched the D3 football championship between MU and Wisconsin-WW a few weeks back and they had some interesting stats on the school. About 15 years ago, they had a student body of 1100. They hired Coach Larry Keheres, started winning national titles almost evey year, and now the student body has doubled to almost 2200. The interesting thing here is they carry over 200 football players which is about 10% of the entire student body. I only have one question for you and it is rhetorical - which program is getting all the love down there at MU? You might want to consider that for baseball. I think the football coach may also be the AD as well.
Ohio Weslleyan was a regional participant two years back but slipped last year. I am not sure how consistent they have been.
Heidelberg - they have one of the top college coaches in the country imho. The came within one out of going to the D3 college world series just two years ago. They are currently ranked in the top 20 in the nation. They have a small student body of about 1100 but they are known for fine academics as a liberal arts school. I would give them serious consideration if they are interested.
I believe winning is what sports are about and is something to in fact consider. I agree that playing is better than sitting on the bench but winning and playing is better than just playing. Losing gets old in a hurry imho. I agree with everyone else here however, that decision ought to be your son's.
Cleveland Dad,
Thanks for your input. Yes, we are leaving the decision up to our son, but we are trying to give him the most information possible.
My husband and I both went to MUC in the 80s, so we are well aware of what has been going on regarding the football program. (BTW, when we were there, the football team was awful!) The baseball coach is the assistant AD, the football coach is the AD, and it is his decision not to cut anyone from any sports team. True, the football team gets a lot of love, but the rest of the teams do benefit. Have you seen their new weight training facilities? They would put many larger schools to shame! It was the first time I ever saw my son speechless!
My son is going to Heidelberg in Jan for an overnight visit. Hopefully this will help him straighten out in his mind what he wants from his college experience.
Thanks for your input. Yes, we are leaving the decision up to our son, but we are trying to give him the most information possible.
My husband and I both went to MUC in the 80s, so we are well aware of what has been going on regarding the football program. (BTW, when we were there, the football team was awful!) The baseball coach is the assistant AD, the football coach is the AD, and it is his decision not to cut anyone from any sports team. True, the football team gets a lot of love, but the rest of the teams do benefit. Have you seen their new weight training facilities? They would put many larger schools to shame! It was the first time I ever saw my son speechless!
My son is going to Heidelberg in Jan for an overnight visit. Hopefully this will help him straighten out in his mind what he wants from his college experience.
OHBBMOM
Has your son considered Marietta ?
Has your son considered Marietta ?
TRhit
Yes, he looked into it, but they did not have the academic program he is looking for (engineering or pre-engineering).
Yes, he looked into it, but they did not have the academic program he is looking for (engineering or pre-engineering).
For engineering and baseball, you might take a look into Rose-Hulman..
Krakatoa,
Thank you, I will pass that along to him.
Thank you, I will pass that along to him.
Looked on line at Rose-Hulman - great baseball and amazing Freshman class profile - $50,000 a year! Why oh why is college getting to be so darn expensive?
For the longest time the government provided a lot of subsidized loan money. The colleges jacked prices to take advantage. Then the government cut back on subsidies. Do you think colleges are going to lower costs? It why you don't see the rampant inflation of costs that occurred for twenty years.quote:Why oh why is college getting to be so darn expensive?
Who loses? The kids who attend private colleges come out with an average of 88K in debt. And with the government involved, you're taxes are paying for college even if you don't have kids or don't have kids in college.
But the list price of a college is often artificial. Follow through with the process to see what the net price will be. One college my daughter was accepted to offered a 10K scholarship on acceptance. That was 25% right there.
The tide may be turning. When a Stanford economics professor writes an article on finding the right fit over the best academics you know people are starting to rethink what's the definition of the best college. State universities used to be safety schools. Now they can be hard to get accepted due to demand.
RJM,
In my experience, while state schools may have a lower "sticker price", the lack of financial aid evens the playing field with private schools. My daughter, now a sophomore, was interested in both a state school and a private school. The state school was 20,000/yr for tuition/room/board. She was offered a 3,000 scholarship. The tuition/room/board at the private school was 42,000/yr. She was offered scholarships and grants totaling 33,000, bringing the cost to 9,000/yr. Don't automatically think the private school is out of your price range until you get the financial aid package.
In my experience, while state schools may have a lower "sticker price", the lack of financial aid evens the playing field with private schools. My daughter, now a sophomore, was interested in both a state school and a private school. The state school was 20,000/yr for tuition/room/board. She was offered a 3,000 scholarship. The tuition/room/board at the private school was 42,000/yr. She was offered scholarships and grants totaling 33,000, bringing the cost to 9,000/yr. Don't automatically think the private school is out of your price range until you get the financial aid package.
Agree, based on experience, that the private schools are not out of reach, ESPECIALLY if you have a smart kid and a modest income. It was a combo that worked for us. There will still be debt in the end, but manageable.
We are smack dab in the middle - a good student 26 ACT, 3.5 GPA, AP classes and so far aid from all the three private schools he has applied to has not been enough(ie - equal to or below a state school here in Ohio). I thought our income was modest but I guess not modest enough or our kid is not smart enough. I keep reading that a private school can be cost effective - we have not seen that yet. Just sayin... and I KNOW we cannot afford these private schools $40,000 and only $10,000 off - not happening in our world....
Give it time, there should be more money coming after you file your FASA.
Baseball_fever- you may want to check the common data set of the privates your son is interested in. His stats may not be high enough a those schools to generate generous merit aid. If he falls in the middle of gpa and ACT the school may not offer more than already offered but if he's going to play baseball there could the coach perhaps find more academic or athletic money for him??
Or did I miss something and these schools are all D3's which can only offer academic money? Sorry if I missed it, I just realized the name of the thread is D3 potential!!
Or did I miss something and these schools are all D3's which can only offer academic money? Sorry if I missed it, I just realized the name of the thread is D3 potential!!
Speaking from experience for a change because good things do happen, there is a lot to gpa, and act but I really believe that they look at course work load as far as taking the toughest courses (honors, AP) and 4yrs of a language, not 2. As well as if you can interview that could help a lot. Also early decision ups your chances as long as you know that the school is the one for you because you are committed.
To get a good idea on how generous a school is on aid go to the college board web site and when you look up a school look at the % of needs met and look at the average debt on the students after graduation under the finance tab.