In my kids summer league there are three 2022 D3 commits who throw upper 80’s. He said he knows of about 10 others who will step on a campus this fall as freshman who throw that hard.
If I’m not mistaken that was something you very rarely saw even 5 years ago. Kids like that before would go D2 or D1 mid major. Just another example of the after effects of the COVID Roster Logjams, as well as how pitching velocity is increasing across all of Baseball
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Velo has definitely increased, so has the age of the average college player. Another year, another 5th/6th year arm coming back. Another transfer portal opportunity. The 87/88 guys that would have been recruited in the hopes that they got up to 90-92 are being passed on for proven arms. They slide down to d2/d3.
I also think top speed is less important than what they're sitting at and D1 recruiters are becoming more privy to those numbers.
87 really means 83-86 with velo being in the 80-83 range after 60 pitches. You'll see some D1 guys be at 87-90 but the difference is they'll be able to sit there for 7/8 innings.
@3and2Fastball posted:In my kids summer league there are three 2022 D3 commits who throw upper 80’s. He said he knows of about 10 others who will step on a campus this fall as freshman who throw that hard.
If I’m not mistaken that was something you very rarely saw even 5 years ago. Kids like that before would go D2 or D1 mid major. Just another example of the after effects of the COVID Roster Logjams, as well as how pitching velocity is increasing across all of Baseball
I can't speak to 5 years ago, but I know 10 years ago there were a bunch of D3 commits (to top 20 D3 programs) that I knew throwing upper 80's. This isn't something new. A handful of them wanted a D3 experience, and put academics ahead of athletics. If my son had not selected a D1 HA for its engineering program, his backup was a D3 HA based (again) on their engineering program. There were a bunch of guys just like him. He was fortunate to have those choices.
Just my experience.
2022 was my first season watching D3 baseball, so fwiw: My son is a rising sophomore pitcher and his D3 team has 6 or 8 guys who can touch 88-90+ (and I mean touch that while actually pitching, not just trying to throw as hard as possible for a radar gun reading). These guys typically sit around 85-88 (and a couple of them do have problems with command). The two freshmen Ps who saw game time last year both touch 89-90.
Those numbers seem pretty typical among the stronger D3 teams I saw in 2022, with the occasional lefty throwing lots of junk at 70-75. And good D3 hitters didn't seem to have trouble getting the bat on 87-89 mph pitches if a pitcher can't locate his fastball and change speeds.
@3and2Fastball I agree with the above answers but here is my observation.
It's not all about velocity but does the pitcher know how to pitch and get hitters out? The difference also could come down to righty or lefty and his physical attributes. Same might go for hitters.
I am more familiar with level D2, D1 mid and the P5 levels.
@3and2Fastball posted:In my kids summer league there are three 2022 D3 commits who throw upper 80’s. He said he knows of about 10 others who will step on a campus this fall as freshman who throw that hard.
If I’m not mistaken that was something you very rarely saw even 5 years ago. Kids like that before would go D2 or D1 mid major. Just another example of the after effects of the COVID Roster Logjams, as well as how pitching velocity is increasing across all of Baseball
Agree, velo up across all levels of baseball. My D3 views from two years of watching son's team is Velo is important but top velo's don't get you mound time. Son's coach values strike throwers first and foremost and likes pitchers who locate the ball and work fast (who doesn't). D3 hitters can hit the low 90's flat fastball. Movement is important at all levels too.
High velocity gets a pitcher on the team. Throwing strikes get him on the mound. Getting hitters out gets him back on the mound.
@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:Son's coach values strike throwers first and foremost and likes pitchers who locate the ball and work fast (who doesn't).
Agree!
Thanks for the responses. To clarify, these are kids cruising 87-88 in games, not guys who hit 87 once on a radar gun at a PBR
Last season my kid’s D3 team faced upper 80’s twice all season, maybe 3 times
I agree that D3 hitters can crush that velocity if it doesn’t have movement
I told my son that my prediction is that by the time he’s a college Senior, half of the All Conference players will be underclassmen, players just keep getting better and better
The over all velocity has increased. My husband hit 92 in college a million years ago at a P5 and there weren't that many that had crazy velo back then. I think right now, just guys that D1Baseball have actually seen with their eyes hit 95 or higher this season, is around 85-90 guys. Even 5-6 years ago, you could count on a few hands, the high school guys who were 93 or higher, now there are tons.
Too funny. My D1 guy told me unless u have a 95mph FB it is not impressive!
But of course movement and control are everything!
Just spoke to HA D3 son.... best D3 teams had several guys sitting 88-90, with maybe one guy sitting 90-92 (top pitcher at Tufts with Cape invite and two pitchers at Eastern Conn). The majority of bull pen would have guys 81-85, with the exceptional nasty slider guy throwing 76-80 as the closer.
A number of the better pitchers had low to mid D1 offers but these kids were searching for higher academic where they could get on the field quickly. Most are late bloomers from both a size and/or development perspective.
Haven't even mentioned how many D3 hitters can face top D1 velo and command. Not many; a few here or there.... Son's buddy was at a top performing HA D3, he was drafted junior year, and he is one of the top hitters on his low A team and league. Rare feat. We won't be surprised to see him in double A this season....
@Chico Escuela posted:2022 was my first season watching D3 baseball, so fwiw: My son is a rising sophomore pitcher and his D3 team has 6 or 8 guys who can touch 88-90+ (and I mean touch that while actually pitching, not just trying to throw as hard as possible for a radar gun reading). These guys typically sit around 85-88 (and a couple of them do have problems with command). The two freshmen Ps who saw game time last year both touch 89-90.
Those numbers seem pretty typical among the stronger D3 teams I saw in 2022, with the occasional lefty throwing lots of junk at 70-75. And good D3 hitters didn't seem to have trouble getting the bat on 87-89 mph pitches if a pitcher can't locate his fastball and change speeds.
This was my observation as well. And I do think the overall pitching quality, and play in general, trickled down during Covid. Which makes sense given how many 5th and even 6 year players we've seen in D1 over last 2 years. D3 couldn't help but get an influx of players who didn't want to wait until Jr year to touch the field. Maybe that will start to level off a bit now, who knows.
My other observation is that velocity training is just something that is far more widespread now. In my area, there are three very good training facilities that specifically focus on velocity, and many of the kids that come through these programs get to 90 mph. There's just more knowledge out there about how to train, gain, and eat in order to get players to that point. Probably also the reason we are seeing more and more TJ as well, which is the flip side of all of this.
My son's national championship D3 team had 6 pitchers throwing in the 90's. This was 2014/15.
When we went up to OU to play them in the fall for a scrimmage ou r top guys were sitting 90-92,one topping at 94.(signed by MLB team) OU pitchers were sitting 94-96 top 98. They were clearly a step up in quality and velo as you would expect.
The Trinity pitching coach was a leader in the advanced training and as @Wechson has pointed out velocity training is much more prevalent today. My son's former pitching coach recently said that if you give him an athletic pitcher he can have them in the 90's today.
When my son was in HS (2011) if a pitcher was hitting 90 there would be a ton of pro scouts in the stands and while I am not that close to HS ball anymore I think the threshold is much higher.
Big jump from 2021 to 2022 in terms of pitching and hitting at the D3 level. With transfers and 5th and 6th years still playing, a lot has changed. Top 10 teams have pitchers that sit high 80's - low 90's with good breaking stuff. There are programs that have 1-2 guys that sit 90-91 T93 through 6+ innings. Difference between D3 and D1 guys is command and quality/number of pitches they throw for strikes. Coaches want outs, because outs win games...not a number on a gun. That's at every level... Will McEntire pitching for Arkansas proved that last night with his incredible performance on the mound. Not too many 90-91mph pitches thrown, but that FB was certainly working for him even at 88. Always believe in yourself and don't let anyone define you!
Have also observed that position starters at top D3 programs are usually better players than Mid-major back-ups. Players need to be aware that there are D1 transfers that played at their previous school that don't become everyday starters at a top D3 school. Don't underestimate the talent at the top of D3.
It will in most cases be hard for freshman to get much play time... even at D3 level. Incoming freshman that are working out hard, watching nutrition, getting sleep and challenging themselves playing better competition over the summer will have the best shot at opportunities come fall. Mental toughness is so important. You need to build trust with your coaches. You can be a good pitcher, but you have to perform in games over and over. You will not be given the same length of leash on the mound that the seasoned pitchers/starters have... especially in big games. You have to earn that level of trust.
One observation over the past two seasons is that there are guys that can play at the next level on these teams 100%. Some were late bloomers, some were missed in recruiting and others usually have genetic size working against them. Players have more opportunities to develop and more time. You can be drafted/signed to the next level from D3, especially pitchers. With that being said, most kids at D3 level are playing for the love of the game and an education. Those 4 years can be some of the best of your life!
What I saw from watching one full season of D3 ball is that there are a lot of All Conference D3 position players who can flat out hit the ball. Middle infielders for instance who might’ve ran a 7.1 or 7.2 60 coming out of high school and/or threw 85 across the infield so they didn’t get D1 interest or offers, but they hit .380+ in D3
@3and2Fastball posted:What I saw from watching one full season of D3 ball is that there are a lot of All Conference D3 position players who can flat out hit the ball. Middle infielders for instance who might’ve ran a 7.1 or 7.2 60 coming out of high school and/or threw 85 across the infield so they didn’t get D1 interest or offers, but they hit .380+ in D3
A kid I coached in LL didn’t have D1 speed or range. But he had D1 contact and power skills. He became a D3 All American.
