I've seen Oakland A's pitcher Dan Haren mentioned a few times here lately.
Here is a clip of him pitching from back in 2005...
Haren is having a very good season for Oakland. Any thoughts on his delivery?
Jason
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quote:Originally posted by FlippJ:
I've seen Oakland A's pitcher Dan Haren mentioned a few times here lately.
Here is a clip of him pitching from back in 2005...
Haren is having a very good season for Oakland. Any thoughts on his delivery?
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
micmeister
WHAT !!!!! they said the same thing about Mark Prior and where is he now
If we are going to use pictures as teaching tools use pictures of guys who have been around a bit--not guys with 2 or 3 years experience
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
micmeister
I am not a scout nor have I ever claimed to be---let you buddy painguy tell you how it works--he has all the answers
I do know what I want to see on our team
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
The book is still open on Haren---to make judgements on 2 or 3 years is not logical or realistic
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
WHAT !!!!! they said the same thing about Mark Prior and where is he now
quote:Originally posted by micmeister:
Painguy,
I know you have been studying mechanics for a while now and I've often wondered about these guys that lean their head and shoulders back towards first base (RHP) and then they end up falling off dramatically towards first base. Some of them even end up with their feet facing first base. Is this something that can cause injury or that you have looked at before?
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
I do know what I want to see on our team
quote:Originally posted by Roger Tomas:quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
I do know what I want to see on our team
I'm thinking the OP would be happy to hear you compare what you know you want to see on your team with what you see in Haren's mechanics. I'd like to hear that as well. So throw it out there and lets discuss. That how we all learn from each other. And THAT is what these forums are for, right?
quote:Originally posted by micmeister:
I've often wondered about these guys that lean their head and shoulders back towards first base (RHP) and then they end up falling off dramatically towards first base. Some of them even end up with their feet facing first base.
quote:Originally posted by Roger Tomas:quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
WHAT !!!!! they said the same thing about Mark Prior and where is he now
So are you saying that Prior's problems are due to his mechanics? If so, can you explain why?
quote:Originally posted by micmeister:quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
micmeister
I am not a scout nor have I ever claimed to be---let you buddy painguy tell you how it works--he has all the answers
I do know what I want to see on our team
"This comes from no study or science right now."
Only a thought.
I would like to know at what age most or the injury prone pitchers stated pitching?
What age the solid pitchers started pitching?
I would not be surprised to learn that most guys who were pitching since 7-8 years old are the guys that breakdown now. Or kids who threw much harder then what would be considered average for their age.
Or that guys that really didn't start pitching until 12-13 years old are the guys that are usually more healthy so to speak.
My thought is that due to bone remodeling from continued stress to growth plates and joints in general there is more chance of being injured as a adult due to altered biomechanics.
This is only a thought mind you. I'm not stating this is the reason for increased injury.
I'm just trying to learn. I don't know you or thepainguy. I read the posts and comment on them if I have a hankering to. I can tell by reading the posts that many don't agree with thepainguy and I guess you are one of them. I can tell though, that thepainguy is doing research to figure out what is causing all of the pitching injuries and that to me is noble. If what he is doing can prevent even one injury it is worth while and maybe even if it doesn't because just the pursuit is worthy in itself. Now, back to my question to you.
What is it that you look for in a pitcher? Are you a College, High School, or Travel ball Coach?
quote:Originally posted by Chameleon:quote:Originally posted by micmeister:
I've often wondered about these guys that lean their head and shoulders back towards first base (RHP) and then they end up falling off dramatically towards first base. Some of them even end up with their feet facing first base.
This head movement and lean is critcial to the throwing process. THAT move IS throwing.
The bow/arch/bow of the spine is the underlying mechanics that allows one to throw the ball hard.
The bow/arch/bow is what moves the head and shoulders so there is a path for the arm....a path that is in alignment with the body.
quote:Originally posted by Roger Tomas:quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
WHAT !!!!! they said the same thing about Mark Prior and where is he now
So are you saying that Prior's problems are due to his mechanics? If so, can you explain why?
quote:Originally posted by thepainguy:quote:Originally posted by Chameleon:quote:Originally posted by micmeister:
I've often wondered about these guys that lean their head and shoulders back towards first base (RHP) and then they end up falling off dramatically towards first base. Some of them even end up with their feet facing first base.
This head movement and lean is critcial to the throwing process. THAT move IS throwing.
The bow/arch/bow of the spine is the underlying mechanics that allows one to throw the ball hard.
The bow/arch/bow is what moves the head and shoulders so there is a path for the arm....a path that is in alignment with the body.
In what can only be a sign of the apocalypse, I pretty much agree with this.
Not exactly for the reasons stated, but we end up at the same place.
quote:Originally posted by micmeister:quote:Originally posted by thepainguy:quote:Originally posted by Chameleon:quote:Originally posted by micmeister:
I've often wondered about these guys that lean their head and shoulders back towards first base (RHP) and then they end up falling off dramatically towards first base. Some of them even end up with their feet facing first base.
This head movement and lean is critcial to the throwing process. THAT move IS throwing.
The bow/arch/bow of the spine is the underlying mechanics that allows one to throw the ball hard.
The bow/arch/bow is what moves the head and shoulders so there is a path for the arm....a path that is in alignment with the body.
In what can only be a sign of the apocalypse, I pretty much agree with this.
Not exactly for the reasons stated, but we end up at the same place.
Okay, I'm not sure who this is in this clip, but this is what I'm talking about. I know you have to do it once you've started to pull your backside over and your arm is almost at release, but this guy does it way before Prior does in the clip above. What I want to know, is if the guy in this clip is putting more stress on some body part than someone with Prior's type of motion in this clip? It looks like it would put more of a strain on the lower back and the front of the shoulder.
quote:Originally posted by micmeister:
The bow/arch/bow is what moves the head and shoulders so there is a path for the arm....a path that is in alignment with the body.
Chameleon,
So are you saying that it is safer to arch your back and throw hard or that the only way you can throw hard is to arch your back? Just trying to learn.
quote:Originally posted by Chameleon:
This head movement and lean is critcial to the throwing process. THAT move IS throwing.
quote:The bow/arch/bow is what moves the head and shoulders so there is a path for the arm....a path that is in alignment with the body.
quote:If the painguy was really interested in injury he would investigate which guys don't do this very well. If you don't do this your arm has no rotational deceleration path. If you don't do this your arm goes linear toward the plate. That linear move, out of the body's rotational plane, can really stress the arm. See Mark Prior.
quote:Originally posted by micmeister:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TRhit:
The book is still open on Haren---to make judgements on 2 or 3 years is not logical or realistic[/QU
What? If he has good mechanics or not? Couldn't a knowledgeable person do that the first time they saw them throw???
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
The book is still open on Haren---to make judgements on 2 or 3 years is not logical or realistic
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
What makes you think you know more about the mechanics than others before you ?
Just because you read books and the internet?
We can all develop theories but that does not make them correct and something to follow
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Follow me here if you will---the reason I question you is because I worry about young kids taking wrong info and trying to go forward from there---all too many believe what they read on the internet as gospel and so do many parents
You keep saying this and that but your background is severely limited--- you keep using the term "I think"---hey "I think" too but I have pitching coaches on the staff to do the work and instruction because they know while I may think.
I am truly tired of what I term "Cyberspace Gurus" who just send out info based on what they think !!!!
And most never played the game beyond LL if they got that far---do not take this as a personal attack because it isnt---you simple fall into that group of "cyberspace cowboys" who profess to have the answers but their answers are based on what?-__WHAT THEY THINK !!!!!
quote:Originally posted by micmeister:
I know you have been studying mechanics for a while now and I've often wondered about these guys that lean their head and shoulders back towards first base (RHP) and then they end up falling off dramatically towards first base. Some of them even end up with their feet facing first base. Is this something that can cause injury or that you have looked at before?
...but you've stated before that you like Maddux's finish position and you like pitchers to "land in a good fielding position". This pic you posted of Maddux doesn't look like he's "...facing 1B..." to me.quote:Originally posted by thepainguy:...I tend to like it when guys finish facing 1B because it increases the distance over which their hips turn and which the arm decelerates (both of which are good things).
quote:Originally posted by dm59:...but you've stated before that you like Maddux's finish position and you like pitchers to "land in a good fielding position". This pic you posted of Maddux doesn't look like he's "...facing 1B..." to me.quote:Originally posted by thepainguy:...I tend to like it when guys finish facing 1B because it increases the distance over which their hips turn and which the arm decelerates (both of which are good things).