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quote:
Originally posted by dm59:
quote:
Originally posted by thepainguy:...I tend to like it when guys finish facing 1B because it increases the distance over which their hips turn and which the arm decelerates (both of which are good things).
...but you've stated before that you like Maddux's finish position and you like pitchers to "land in a good fielding position". This pic you posted of Maddux doesn't look like he's "...facing 1B..." to me.


Yep, got me on that one too. What about Kerry Wood? He finishes facing first and he is always hurt. Maddux or Glavine either one doesn't do this.
quote:
Originally posted by micmeister:
quote:
Originally posted by dm59:
quote:
Originally posted by thepainguy:...I tend to like it when guys finish facing 1B because it increases the distance over which their hips turn and which the arm decelerates (both of which are good things).
...but you've stated before that you like Maddux's finish position and you like pitchers to "land in a good fielding position". This pic you posted of Maddux doesn't look like he's "...facing 1B..." to me.


Yep, got me on that one too. What about Kerry Wood? He finishes facing first and he is always hurt. Maddux or Glavine either one doesn't do this.


First, unlike arm action this isn't one of the primary things I focus on.

Second, in terms of injury prevention, this is more of an issue in terms of finishing in a strong fielding position. Wood's issue arise much earlier in his delivery. In particular, he has a terrible problem with rushing (e.g a major timing problem).

Third, I think that guys who, like Andy Pettitte, cut their follow-through short are more vulnerable to problems in the back of the rotator cuff (e.g. Teres Minor) because they have to stop their arms over a shorter distance (in high speed film you will see them slap their backs with their PAS hands).



However, if you look at the incidence of Teres Minor problems you will see that this is a relatively small problem in the scheme of things, which is why I haven't spent much time studying it.

There are multiple ways of dealing with this, including not leaving the foot behind on the rubber and keeping the shoulders rotating.
Last edited by thepainguy
quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
Are you stretching this a bit further than what you are actually researching? Do any of your prime examples, Glavine, Maddux, Clemens, Ryan, Heran, end up facing 1B or 3B in Glavine's case?


The thing to keep in mind is that many pitchers' shoulders will rotate 180 or more degrees but will then rebound to something more like 90 to 135 degrees.

IMO the problem is with guys who cut their shoulder rotation short and don't get the full 180 degrees of rotation, often due to poor PAS leg action (e.g. leaving the PAS foot behind on the rubber).

That's the problem with looking at individual stills in this case.
Last edited by thepainguy
quote:
Originally posted by dm59:
quote:
Originally posted by thepainguy:...I tend to like it when guys finish facing 1B because it increases the distance over which their hips turn and which the arm decelerates (both of which are good things).
...but you've stated before that you like Maddux's finish position and you like pitchers to "land in a good fielding position". This pic you posted of Maddux doesn't look like he's "...facing 1B..." to me.


At this point Maddux's arm has already decelerated and is rebounding back. His shoulders are also rotating back clockwise toward being open to the plate.
quote:
First, unlike arm action this isn't one of the primary things I focus on.


Chris,

Why not just leave it at that then. You don't need to come up with an answer for everything. I'm more interested in those things you have researched thoroughly and your thoughts regarding those things. Not interested in the things you don't focus on.
http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/I...Maddux_003.jpg[/IMG] [/QUOTE]

At this point Maddux's arm has already decelerated and is rebounding back. His shoulders are also rotating back clockwise toward being open to the plate.[/QUOTE]


I can't see how his arm could be rebounding already, his back foot hasn't even landed yet and his heel is facing the batter when it does on a normal pitch.
quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
quote:
First, unlike arm action this isn't one of the primary things I focus on.

Why not just leave it at that then. You don't need to come up with an answer for everything. I'm more interested in those things you have researched thoroughly and your thoughts regarding those things. Not interested in the things you don't focus on.


Good point.
quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
Chris,

Are you stretching this a bit further than what you are actually researching? Do any of your prime examples, Glavine, Maddux, Clemens, Ryan, Heran, end up facing 1B or 3B in Glavine's case?


Here's Nolan Ryan...



What I like about this clip is how much his shoulders rotate and how his PAS foot comes off the rubber early rather than sticking straight out behind him ala Andy Pettitte.
quote:
Originally posted by thepainguy:
quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
Chris,

Are you stretching this a bit further than what you are actually researching? Do any of your prime examples, Glavine, Maddux, Clemens, Ryan, Heran, end up facing 1B or 3B in Glavine's case?


Here's Nolan Ryan...



What I like about this clip is how much his shoulders rotate and how his PAS foot comes off the rubber early rather than sticking straight out behind him ala Andy Pettitte.



Me too, but notice his feet are pretty much square to the plate when he finishes and he is not arching his back toward first base. His head moves to the left from this angle, but it stays up and down (his eyes stay level). Do you have a clip of Pettitte???

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