Dartmouth

Someone on this board has a kid who played at Dartmouth. Check the "Where Are They" section. I believe Dartmouth has a new tuition and cost plan that charges 10% of household income for those between 100-250K. Hanover's nickname is Hangover. By Ivy standards Dartmouth is a party school. It's cold up there. It's in the mountains on the Vermont border. Teams in the northeast usually don't practice outdoors until they get off the plane in Florida on their spring trip.

quill,
If they don't see your post and respond, you can PM FrankF and dbgfan. Their sons are recent graduates of Dartmouth.

I went to Dartmouth - long time ago, didn't play ball. LOVED it. Bleed Green. Happy to answer questions if you want education/town/lifestyle perspective. You do have to love the cold outdoors. You also have to want to be in a place that is all (name your school) all the time. The entire town supports the campus. You have to love to work hard on your academics - the kids there are smart with a capital S. I have served as an alumni interview rep - and it's hard as heck to get in. They turn down valedictorians with perfect SATs left right and center. Of course, we all hope that athletic ability changes those odds. No money in scholarships - and you still have to go to class with all those perfect SAT score kids.
PM me if you want any questions

Thanks for the offer, gamefan. It's the cold that might be the stumbling block. We'll see.

Only have a second, but you can PM me with more inquiries.

BTW, Dartmouth just beat Cornell 10-0 today to win the Ivy League Championship and entry into the NCAA tourney. First time since 1987.

They recruit a whole lot of people so don't get too excited. On the other hand, going to Dartmouth is a great opportunity and your son is ahead of the whole lot more people they don't recruit.

Not to worry, CADad. We are keeping a cool head about all inquiries. Just don't know much about that one. There is a young man one year ahead of my son who was just admitted and was a coach-supported recruit, so I'll be interested to talk to him and his parents when I have a chance. Our kids played ball together a few years ago but go to different schools.

Thanks Frank, I'll PM you when we have more info from the HS coach. We did hear about the win. Very cool!

My son matriculated in 2008 and completed his tour of duty with Whalen and the baseball team. I'll answer any questions you may have.

dbg_fan,
I see you're from TX, so I'd be interested to know how your son adjusted to the weather. Mine loves to snow ski, but he's never lived in an area that is quite so frozen all year long. (We're from Atlanta.) I hear Dartmouth is in a beautiful area, very near the Vermont border. What was your son's baseball experience, and how did it mesh with his studies? How large is the town of Hanover?
You can PM me if you'd prefer.
Thanks!

Hanover Chamber of Commerce

My understanding is that the admissions department will not cut you any slack just because the baseball coaches want you. You have to pass admissions on your own.

That is quite an obstacle, given Dartmouth's academic reputation and applications pool.

Congrats to those whose sons got in!

MIDLO

You are correct---admissions rules the roost there

And all monies are need based---my nephew attended Dartmouth and came out of HS with a 4.0 GPA, 1600 SAT National Merit Honor Scholarship student, etc etc---no monies for him

Pesky admissions standards!

you want pesky admission standards listen to this--my nephew who went to Dartmouth was turned down by Duke

Things may have been different 30 years ago but my cousin supposedly went there on a full academic.

Let's not make mountains out of mole hills. Ultimately, the admissions office has final say over who is admitted into Dartmouth. A baseball player with high grades, high class standing in HS graduating class (top 10%), very good SAT, and a coaches 'sponsorship' has a good chance of being admitted. For example, my son had a lower SAT score than the Dartmouth mean for incoming freshmen. A sponsorship has a positive effect on the admission application. I am familiar with one situation where a young man appeared to have qualifying academic statistics, yet was rejected by admissions.

dbg_fan,

As someone with experience, let me ask you this:
When an athlete like your son is admitted to an ivy, using baseball skill as a hook, are they able to keep up academically with probably superior students and the rigors of competing in baseball? Or does the academic assistance provided to student athletes makeup for any differences?

My son (a junior) needs to make a big decision soon regarding just this situation. He is a mid level student on the "academic index" that the ivies use (around 190+), but he has done that playing 3 HS varsity sports and not really doing any SAT test prep. He and I are concerned that playing baseball at a school that he starts off on the low-end of academically might be too much.

Blpr-What is the "academic index" that the ivies use and how do you configure a score?

Can't speak for dbg_fan but my son's situation was probably a lot like his son except his son had a good chance to get in without baseball. Josh hadn't taken the SAT at all in HS because the schools he had been looking at were okay with the ACT. I know for a fact he didn't get close to the SAT mean for admission into Dartmouth. He did however have everything else needed for admission including a glowing coaches letter. That said, admissions does rule the roost and if they feel that the student would still have problems they would probably be rejected. I feel very strongly that without the baseball aspect my son would not have been accepted.

There is assistance if needed. My son's first email home was that he was the "stupidest" kid on campus. After talking with other parents they said that was also the first email they got from their son's. There are students who definitely excel and there are others (like my son) who had to work their tails off to succeed. A kid's make-up is very important as it's definitely not for everyone.

gamefan-
you can google 'academic index for ivy athletes' to find a calculator and read more about it.

FrankF-
Thank you for the input.

I am also assuming that the baseball coaches that see his academic transcript know from experience what will pass admissions and what won't.

A clear explanation of the Academic Index.
Academic Index Explained

For Blprkfrnks & everyone else - let's lay out the application statistics. Here are some facts to color our conversation. I hope this can help you in your evaluation.

High School - public TX HS

GPA - (edited)

Class rank - (edited)

SAT - (edited)

Extracurricular - (edited)

Baseball - 4 years varsity. 4 years summer w/ top Dallas summer teams. You've heard of them.

Those are the lifeless statistics. The admissions office STARTS here, then looks for color. My recollection from the 2004 admissions tour meetings are as follows:

- All serious applicants are qualified academically
- 1025 applicants are accepted. 10-12K students apply.
- Dartmouth really values HS graduating class rank.
- Admissions prefers to see student applicants that have a passion for a single activity in their extracurricular portfolio. This is preferred over the applicant that has a smorgasbord of special interests listed on their application. Too many interests = not enough commitment to any one of them.
- Admissions looks to justify every acceptance letter by asking 'What unique qualities does this applicant have that will add value or diversity to the Dartmouth community?' (Yes, its a touchy-feely elite liberal question, but its their college). For my son his unique quality was that he was a shortstop entering school the year after the All-Ivy Dartmouth SS was graduating. Timing was everything.

quote:

When an athlete like your son is admitted to an ivy, using baseball skill as a hook, are they able to keep up academically with probably superior students and the rigors of competing in baseball? Or does the academic assistance provided to student athletes makeup for any differences?

Nobody flunks out of Dartmouth. You might not like your grades (I saw no evidence of grade inflation based on my son's experience), but if you work you'll graduate.

Succeeding academically is not impossible. DC does not experience nearly the travel schedule that most associate with D1 baseball. Baseball players major in Economics, English, Engineering, Psychology, Government, and they all minor in Baseball.

First off - All Ivy games are played Sat & Sun. Two DHs. A 7 inning game followed by a 9 inning game. For road trips in league play, the longest bus ride is Hanover to Princeton for Sat, Princeton to Cornell on Sat night for Sunday games, back to Hanover on Sunday night. Harvard is 2 hours away. Yale, 2.5. Brown might be 3 hours away. There is usually only 1 mid-week game per week. Never more than 4 hours away. You might miss class every other Wed, sometimes on FR for the long road trips south.

The whole school operates by laptop. Kids who need to can write papers & read text on the bus ride. Everyone has the same academic workload and mindset, so it not like you're the team geek because you study.

Another factor is the limited schedule imposed by Ivy League rules. I think that the Ivy League manages their athletic programs more appropriately than all other D1 conferences. Our kids go to college to gain an education, and the colleges emphasize education over athletics. As a result, Ivy League baseball is restricted to 12 fall practices instead of the NCAA mandated 20. Team schedules are limited to between 40-45 games, instead of NCAA maximum 56.

Finally - if your son is recruited by Dartmouth baseball and gains admission to the school, don't think twice. Accept the offer. I will wholeheartedly endorse any decision to attend Dartmouth, and it won't have anything to do with the baseball program. The Dartmouth diploma has presented more opportunities for my son than I could have imagined.

Frank,

When are you coming to TX? You're always welcome to visit. I just checked google maps driving route. We're an easy detour off your driving route.

dbg and Frank - outstanding posts! This demonstrates the power of the hsbbweb. I am not sure there is any other place in the world where a student-athlete could find this type of information.

Congrats to Dartmouth for being the first team in 2009 to make the NCAA tournament!

Great resource. Thanks everyone!!

Another academic "strength" about Dartmouth's schedule is the trimester system (fall winter spring). Students take 3 classes per trimester (which last about 10-12 weeks). So, during baseball season, a student is working intensely on 3 courses - instead of the 5 that students at a semester based school might be taking. Sophomores are required to be "on" sophomore summer and "off" junior fall. Housing is guaranteed, though many live in frats or sororities on campus.

Couple of additional comments: First, Dartmouth this year dedicated a state of the art baseball field and stadium. The field is all field turf, with an exception for the mound. The team is allowed to practice outside earlier in the year, and fewer games are postponed. The stadium is gorgeous, with brick surfaces and permanent seating for 1000 people.
Secondly, although Dartmouth used to have a party-school reputation in the 50's and 60's when it was all male ("Animal House" was principally written by a Dartmouth grad about his fraternity experiences), it is less so now.
Finally, Coach Whalen recruits nationally. He is a long-time coach at the Stanford Camp, and he and his staff attend most of the serious showcases.

FROM THE DARTMOUTH WEBSITE: 3/31/2009
Dartmouth College admits 12 percent of applicants for the Class of 2013

Dartmouth College announced today it has extended offers of admission to 2,184 applicants for its Class of 2013, from a pool of 18,130 - the largest of number of applicants in the College's history – and a 10 percent increase over last year’s record number of applicants.

The Class of 2013 was selected through a fully need-blind admissions process. Dartmouth administrators project that 55 percent of the entering class will receive need-based financial aid, totaling $21.8 million in scholarship assistance.

“The academic credentials of admitted students are very strong, particularly in the number of students ranked in the top 10 percent of their class as well as students ranked first in their class,” said Maria Laskaris, Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid. Laskaris is a 1984 graduate of Dartmouth.

To date, the number of students qualifying for aid is up 14 percent, and represents almost half of the pool of admitted students.

The financial aid office is also projecting an average scholarship of $33,978 compared to an average scholarship of $31,274 for the Class of 2012. The College has budgeted for a 13 percent increase in total financial aid for FY 2010, to $72 million.

The overall rate of admission this year was 12 percent, down from 13.5 percent for the Class of 2012. Approximately 1,090 of those admitted are expected to matriculate at Dartmouth in September 2009.

Of those who were ranked by their secondary schools, 95 percent of students admitted were in the top 10 percent of their secondary school's graduating class, including 42.5 percent who were valedictorians and 10.8 percent who were salutatorians. The mean SAT scores for students admitted this year are: 729 Verbal, 733 Math and 732 Writing.

This year, 45 percent of the students admitted to Dartmouth are students of color, the most diverse group in the College's history. Students of color currently make up over 30 percent of the student body.

Dartmouth strengthened its financial aid program last year, offering free tuition for students who come from families with annual incomes at or below $75,000. Dartmouth has a need-blind admissions policy, accepting students, both domestic and international, regardless of ability to pay. Once admitted, the College meets 100 percent of the student’s demonstrated need for all four years through a combination of scholarships and campus employment.

Laskaris says the increase in the number of students receiving scholarship assistance and the increase in the size of the scholarship award are a direct reflection of the no-loan component of Dartmouth’s expansive financial aid program announced in January 2008, as well as the impact of the global economic crisis.

Laskaris credits the rise in applications to the strength of Dartmouth’s financial aid program and a comprehensive recruitment process that highlighted Dartmouth’s exceptional faculty, robust academic program, and its diverse community. This year’s applicant pool was notable for the continued growth in diversity, with applications from women, students of color, first generation college students, and international students all at record levels.

Dartmouth College was recently recognized as a “best value” by Kiplinger’s Personal Finance, the Princeton Review, and Smart Moneymagazine. Dartmouth ranked 7th on Kiplinger’s list of 50 best value private universities, and Princeton Reviewnamed Dartmouth as one of 50 best value private colleges. Smart Money, in their “Colleges that Pay Off” series studying the relationship between tuition costs and earning potential, ranked Dartmouth second among the Ivies.

Other highlights:
-The numbers of men and women admitted were practically even: 1,091 to 1,093 respectively.

-The College admitted 185 international students representing 59 nations.

-The Class of 2013 includes 310 first-generation college students, comprising 14 percent of the admitted group.

-Admitted students come from across the nation as well as around the world: 577 come from the Mid-Atlantic region; 455 from the West; 401 from the South; 337 from New England; 237 from the Midwest and 177 have a non-U.S. address.

-The College admitted 162 students who are the children of Dartmouth alumni/ae.