I'am hearing this quite abit lately. Any thoughts on the Cause, Condition or Cure?
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Did you check the Pitching is an act of violence... thread?
JK. I don't know the answer to your question. Sorry.
JK. I don't know the answer to your question. Sorry.
It has always puzzled my why people can not understand this. When the body dies so do the arm.
Unless you're a lefty. Then your arm has three more years (Mulholland, Orosco, John, etc.).quote:Originally posted by Coach May:
It has always puzzled my why people can not understand this. When the body dies so do the arm.
remember its a marathon, not a sprint...I try to give guys the rest needed to be fresh for the whole season
quote:Originally posted by texasbaseballcoach:
remember its a marathon, not a sprint...I try to give guys the rest needed to be fresh for the whole season
We wish more coaches thought like you. Our JV team is curently playing with a 3 man rotation (my freshman & 1 other freshman & a JR) with no real closers. A little worried about sons arm this season
I tend to worry more about arms as they gain speed on the fastball...Most frosh dont throw hard enough to be over concerned with innings pitched. Dont get me wrong, I dont want them to throw 14 innings a week, but if they pitch on tuesday...complete game...I dont have a prob with 1 inning of relief on friday, its just their bull pen...If you want guys to throw hard, they have to pitch and throw fastballs
dswann - As far as I know...
Cause - overuse quite often over a short period of time
Condition - tired arm, no pain really, just can't throw as hard
Cure - rest
If no pain, rest or scaled back throwing temporarily will usually take care of it. I've also heard it advised to at least throw bullpens through it. Not sure which advice is better?
Cause - overuse quite often over a short period of time
Condition - tired arm, no pain really, just can't throw as hard
Cure - rest
If no pain, rest or scaled back throwing temporarily will usually take care of it. I've also heard it advised to at least throw bullpens through it. Not sure which advice is better?
One year when I was coaching the incoming frosh during winter ball a kid who had been throwing for the JVs was sent to me to pitch. I watched him throw, asked him where it hurt, shut him down and sent him to the doctor. Given his age, 14 at the time, I figured it was merely medial epicondylitis. It turned out to be all out little league elbow with a separation of the medial epicondyle. He never fully recovered. The coaches who destroyed this kid went on to coach the JV team that season.
So when I hear a coach say that frosh don't throw hard enough to worry about innings pitched I say that coach should not be coaching.
So when I hear a coach say that frosh don't throw hard enough to worry about innings pitched I say that coach should not be coaching.
Why the dead arm? One reason-
Improper conditioning for the task at hand!!!
Improper conditioning can be anything from over-use (most common) to not warming up correctly before throwing. When a pitcher, or any thrower for that matter, is not physically conditioned to play at full strength, fatigue sets in too quickly and as a result injuries often do occur.
Personally I believe in the philosophy of conditioning a thrower by having them on a throwing program where they throw pretty much everyday to build up good arm strength, just not necessarily at full speed everyday. Professional baseball players throw baseballs fairly hard every single day and they do not suffer from dead arm very much because they are properly conditioned for the task at hand. Too often this is what i literally see at the hs and lower levels-
It rains hard for three days in a row, on fourth day a game is scheduled and ace pitcher who hasn't thrown in four days goes to the bullpen to warm up before a game and throws like 20 pitches and says- "I'm good". Then pither goes into game and throws 100 pitches at his full velocity while his adreliline is pumping and then after the game complains of arm pain and gets told to ice it. So, pitcher goes home, ices arm for 20 minutes, takes some ibuprofin, the next day he takes off from throwing because arm still hurts. Then two days after pitching he warms up with the team, and arm is slightly tight and somewhat uncomfortable but plays through it anyway. He is then called upon to pitch another marathon outing the next day after that and everything is repeated for the rest of the season. Halfway through the season it is noted that velocity has dropped off, composure and focus is gone and yet again- just another mediocre pitcher on the mound!
I am not saying that the marathon outings are a bad thing, I am suggesting that they are bad on a thrower who is only conditioned to be a sprinter! Pitchers need to condition their whole bodies so that they finish their task strong and healthy! This to me means that they are throwing more frequently on off days at near full velocity, stopping before fatigue sets in and then when they do pitch they pitch less because they are more effective and healthy.
I had a kid on my team last year (13u) who was a good pitcher but was babied way too much. His arm on off days was treated like it was a fragile piece of glass. Even before games he would not properly warm up thinking that he would save his best stuff for the game. So, every time he pitched in a game he would get sore, not pitch effectively, and be taken out prematurely. Turned out that it was a major let down to the other pitchers and team who had to pitch more to fill in his place. Kids should throw more on off days and be better conditioned when they are called upon to pitch. Coaches need to be more aware of pitch counts and arm pain levels in the pitching staff as the season goes forward. Any team should have at least 5 pitchers at any given time.
Funny isn't it- When a professional pitcher gets injured or sore, they place him on the FL and call up a new pitcher! On a HS or pre-HS team they do not think of this and always hope and pray that their 2 pitcher s will somehow stay healthy to do marathon events all season long and pump them up with drugs and ice on off days believing that all will be well, and yet no emphasis is placed on proper conditioning on off days and having an adequate enough pitching staff to even have a team.
I took my kid off a team a few years back because son was one of only two pitchers. Dead arm? No, there isn't no scholarships available for throwers who at "one time in their past" who were good hurlers! The throwing arm is a baseball players best tool, protect it and condition the **** out of it!
Ferraris don't run good letting them sit in the garage all week and then hammering the **** out of it for an hour on Sunday! The same needs to go for pitchers- take the dang arm out and work on it and tune it up so that when the hammers down it feels good!
Improper conditioning for the task at hand!!!
Improper conditioning can be anything from over-use (most common) to not warming up correctly before throwing. When a pitcher, or any thrower for that matter, is not physically conditioned to play at full strength, fatigue sets in too quickly and as a result injuries often do occur.
Personally I believe in the philosophy of conditioning a thrower by having them on a throwing program where they throw pretty much everyday to build up good arm strength, just not necessarily at full speed everyday. Professional baseball players throw baseballs fairly hard every single day and they do not suffer from dead arm very much because they are properly conditioned for the task at hand. Too often this is what i literally see at the hs and lower levels-
It rains hard for three days in a row, on fourth day a game is scheduled and ace pitcher who hasn't thrown in four days goes to the bullpen to warm up before a game and throws like 20 pitches and says- "I'm good". Then pither goes into game and throws 100 pitches at his full velocity while his adreliline is pumping and then after the game complains of arm pain and gets told to ice it. So, pitcher goes home, ices arm for 20 minutes, takes some ibuprofin, the next day he takes off from throwing because arm still hurts. Then two days after pitching he warms up with the team, and arm is slightly tight and somewhat uncomfortable but plays through it anyway. He is then called upon to pitch another marathon outing the next day after that and everything is repeated for the rest of the season. Halfway through the season it is noted that velocity has dropped off, composure and focus is gone and yet again- just another mediocre pitcher on the mound!
I am not saying that the marathon outings are a bad thing, I am suggesting that they are bad on a thrower who is only conditioned to be a sprinter! Pitchers need to condition their whole bodies so that they finish their task strong and healthy! This to me means that they are throwing more frequently on off days at near full velocity, stopping before fatigue sets in and then when they do pitch they pitch less because they are more effective and healthy.
I had a kid on my team last year (13u) who was a good pitcher but was babied way too much. His arm on off days was treated like it was a fragile piece of glass. Even before games he would not properly warm up thinking that he would save his best stuff for the game. So, every time he pitched in a game he would get sore, not pitch effectively, and be taken out prematurely. Turned out that it was a major let down to the other pitchers and team who had to pitch more to fill in his place. Kids should throw more on off days and be better conditioned when they are called upon to pitch. Coaches need to be more aware of pitch counts and arm pain levels in the pitching staff as the season goes forward. Any team should have at least 5 pitchers at any given time.
Funny isn't it- When a professional pitcher gets injured or sore, they place him on the FL and call up a new pitcher! On a HS or pre-HS team they do not think of this and always hope and pray that their 2 pitcher s will somehow stay healthy to do marathon events all season long and pump them up with drugs and ice on off days believing that all will be well, and yet no emphasis is placed on proper conditioning on off days and having an adequate enough pitching staff to even have a team.
I took my kid off a team a few years back because son was one of only two pitchers. Dead arm? No, there isn't no scholarships available for throwers who at "one time in their past" who were good hurlers! The throwing arm is a baseball players best tool, protect it and condition the **** out of it!
Ferraris don't run good letting them sit in the garage all week and then hammering the **** out of it for an hour on Sunday! The same needs to go for pitchers- take the dang arm out and work on it and tune it up so that when the hammers down it feels good!
Gingerbreadman, I could not agree more.
LACK OF CONDITIONING FOR THE TASK AT HAND, but it is also combinations of breaking balls thrown before growth plates have closed, lack of physical maturity, lack of physical conditioning and year round ball (overuse).
Throwing programs are vey important. Pitching needs to be controlled.
LACK OF CONDITIONING FOR THE TASK AT HAND, but it is also combinations of breaking balls thrown before growth plates have closed, lack of physical maturity, lack of physical conditioning and year round ball (overuse).
Throwing programs are vey important. Pitching needs to be controlled.
First post this in the pitching thread next time.
Second there is not enough information in the question to get a correct answer.
Third "dead arm" usually occurs once a player starts to throw again after a period of time off. (usually the winter) Their arm will strengthen and then during some point - usually early in the season, a pitcher may go through a period of "dead arm" where his velocity might dip a little or his fastball might lose some life on it. No pain, nothing unusual, ball just loses a little life. Usually lasts a week or two and then everything goes back to normal. Some get it some don't….my son had it last year and did not this year. Last year he was a freshman and was not used to throwing everyday this year he ramped up a little early to prepare.
Everything else is mechanical, physical or some other problem that needs attention.
Second there is not enough information in the question to get a correct answer.
Third "dead arm" usually occurs once a player starts to throw again after a period of time off. (usually the winter) Their arm will strengthen and then during some point - usually early in the season, a pitcher may go through a period of "dead arm" where his velocity might dip a little or his fastball might lose some life on it. No pain, nothing unusual, ball just loses a little life. Usually lasts a week or two and then everything goes back to normal. Some get it some don't….my son had it last year and did not this year. Last year he was a freshman and was not used to throwing everyday this year he ramped up a little early to prepare.
Everything else is mechanical, physical or some other problem that needs attention.
I doubt that there is a person alive who has thrown baseballs who has not experienced a dead arm at one time or another. It's not injury related at all. It's pretty much somedays you have it and other times you don't. No one's arm is exactly the same from one day to the next.
It's just like some days when an athlete can't jump as high or run as fast. Sometimes the "live" arm doesn't work as well as other days. That is called having a "dead" arm. Dead arms, unlike many injured arms, come back to life. The dead arm stage can last one day or several days.
What causes it? I have no idea, not sure if anyone has ever figured that out.
It's just like some days when an athlete can't jump as high or run as fast. Sometimes the "live" arm doesn't work as well as other days. That is called having a "dead" arm. Dead arms, unlike many injured arms, come back to life. The dead arm stage can last one day or several days.
What causes it? I have no idea, not sure if anyone has ever figured that out.