What are the advantages of a catcher being in a deep stance? Thanks.
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
By "Deep" do you mean:
* The distance from the hitter/plate
or
* on flats of feet, rear well below your knees
* The distance from the hitter/plate
or
* on flats of feet, rear well below your knees
Sorry I wasn't specific. I mean on flats of feet, rear well below your knees, to the point where it is even that close to the dirt. Thanks.
That's the way I used to catch, now my rear is higher up. The advantage I believe would be getting the low balls called strikes. It's tough to block that way though.
-Kevin
-Kevin
My son is taught to have a deep stance (when no men are on base.) His rear and knees touch the dirt, with legs splayed out.
The advantage is it allows the catcher to present a very low target while giving the umpire the best possible view of the pitch.
The advantage is it allows the catcher to present a very low target while giving the umpire the best possible view of the pitch.
Deep (as you say) is preferred when you do not have to block the ball.
* w/ no one on base
* 2 strikes w/ no one on base
Receiving w/ your feet flared out and weight on your insteps (rear below your knees) allows you, more than anything, to give a good low target and some may think it allows for a better presentation to the umpire. (down is where you would like the ball to be thrown, more often than not) and sure, there are times when you want to change eye levels so you may go up and out of the strike zone when you can afford to do so.
When in a situation in which you need to block the ball it is easier to do so w/ your feet pointed more toward your pitcher and your rear at or near knee height.
This is just generally speaking and there may slight adjustments due to personal preference and philosophy.
A good catch & throw guy who has the ability to block pitches can make a world of difference as most of you know.
Ask the guys you catch for opinions, suggestions, what they see, what etc... as their comfort level throwing to you is HUGE.....
* w/ no one on base
* 2 strikes w/ no one on base
Receiving w/ your feet flared out and weight on your insteps (rear below your knees) allows you, more than anything, to give a good low target and some may think it allows for a better presentation to the umpire. (down is where you would like the ball to be thrown, more often than not) and sure, there are times when you want to change eye levels so you may go up and out of the strike zone when you can afford to do so.
When in a situation in which you need to block the ball it is easier to do so w/ your feet pointed more toward your pitcher and your rear at or near knee height.
This is just generally speaking and there may slight adjustments due to personal preference and philosophy.
A good catch & throw guy who has the ability to block pitches can make a world of difference as most of you know.
Ask the guys you catch for opinions, suggestions, what they see, what etc... as their comfort level throwing to you is HUGE.....
Is it fair to say that a deep stance is not so important in a catcher's repituar??
Also, how much would coaches (HS and College) care about deep stance?
Personally, I can't get too deep- I'm not awful, but I was wondering if it is something I should really work on.
Also, how much would coaches (HS and College) care about deep stance?
Personally, I can't get too deep- I'm not awful, but I was wondering if it is something I should really work on.
I wouldn't worry about what your coaches think too much. Have you asked them for their opinion of you as a player/catcher?
Sure you want to impress them and above all else you want to play. You can only control what YOU do and worrying about what others are doing or thinking will drive you mad. Work hard and bust your rear at improving, that is all you can do.
Like I said earlier, you should seek the opinions of the pitchers you catch. Do they like to throw to you? Do they prefer to throw to another catcher? Why do they prefer one guy over another?
Sure you want to impress them and above all else you want to play. You can only control what YOU do and worrying about what others are doing or thinking will drive you mad. Work hard and bust your rear at improving, that is all you can do.
Like I said earlier, you should seek the opinions of the pitchers you catch. Do they like to throw to you? Do they prefer to throw to another catcher? Why do they prefer one guy over another?
I think your stance should be dictated by two things....the baserunner situation and your body size...Benito Santiago epitomizes the butt low knees in or "deep" stance...that said Benito is 5-9 160 lbs soaking wet...imagine A.J. Piersinski getting into that...would need a crane to get him back up! As a catcher and coach I tell my players...whatever feels comfortable to you when no one is on...but with runners...your up on your toes, thighs level. First priority...catch the ball (or block), second priority...catch the ball...third priority...catch the ball and if you get a chance to show off the gun..do so. I know some pitchers have "favorite" catchers...I think those guys are pros...if you look at it...its not the catcher...its the rotation and the regular catcher gets every 4th game off...thus the 4th guy in the rotation appears to have his own catcher....nuff said....like I said...catch, block, throw. Dont loose sight of what you are supposed to be doing.
Santiago last I checked is 6'1" about 190....
I will give you that Low...but it only makes him more wirey....he moves less weight than AJ, Veritek or even McCann...my point was how the good Lord made you will determine if you can go deep or need to set up more conventional...the basics dont change...catch, block and throw.
Gshew:
Allow me to mildly disagree with one of your assertions (although many others I completely concur.)
I think many body styles can develop the flexibility to get into a deep stance where the shin guards and butt are on the dirt.
My son is 5-10 and 190-200. Hardly wiry, but he gets very very low and is taught that the lower he gets the better view the ump has. (and the more the ump will appreciate the unobstructed view, giving him the benefit of the doubt on marginal pitches, especially low ones.)
So he has worked hard to be able to develop the limberness to get in that position.
Yes, whether or not he takes that stance is entirely dependent on the count and situation. It is only for nobody on/less than 2 strikes.
Allow me to mildly disagree with one of your assertions (although many others I completely concur.)
I think many body styles can develop the flexibility to get into a deep stance where the shin guards and butt are on the dirt.
My son is 5-10 and 190-200. Hardly wiry, but he gets very very low and is taught that the lower he gets the better view the ump has. (and the more the ump will appreciate the unobstructed view, giving him the benefit of the doubt on marginal pitches, especially low ones.)
So he has worked hard to be able to develop the limberness to get in that position.
Yes, whether or not he takes that stance is entirely dependent on the count and situation. It is only for nobody on/less than 2 strikes.
I am not going to disagree with the individuals flexibility..to each his own, but I have been a catcher at College and AA levels in my life...still catch in an Amateur Adult League in two cities...and not once has an umpire suggested, asked or even hinted that if I get lower it would help them...the better umpires will usually (remember I said better) place their hand in slight contact with the back of one of my shoulders to act as a reference point..ensuring they are in the same position relative to me...and I have found the better umps set up on the inside of the plate relative to the batter. The only advice I have ever received from an umpire (from more than one) is to hold my position upon catching the ball...dont be prone to moving around (up and down..or a great deal side to side) but to hold my position and let him see the pitch...considering where they are...short of an umpire under 5-5 and a 6-4 catcher...most can see well over the shoulder of the catcher and see the entire plate...I cannot speak for any umpires other than those I have worked with, but how I take my position has never been an issue. The only admonishment I have ever received is "dont pull another pitch--its not going to change the call, but it can affect some that you MIGHT have gotten in upcoming innings" Lesson learned.
Well, actually I was told once that I was too high. But only with runners on base. I'm not too big, but the umpire asked me not to go so high, because he is short (I don't remember how short he was) and he said that he knew I was doing what I was taught, but he had trouble seeing it. I obviously listened to him...
The low stance should always be strived for. The better you can keep you pitchers eyes focused downward the better. The lower you are, but still in an athletic position that you can move, the more likely you will be below the umpires lower field of vision until the very last moment when his eyes drop to the plate.
This allows you to make a slight weight shift left or right to accomodate pitches on the corners and be set up and still when the umpires eyes drop to the plate area.
If you are low be sure to be able to keep contact with the ground accross the entire bottom of your foot. I see so many catchers set up on the insteps of their feet which points their knees in towards each other making it very difficult to shift weight to keep those pitches on the corners.
Go to the link below and open the album that's titled "Summer Camp". Look at the 2nd pic titled "Jay Receiving" Deep crouch for guy with huge legs, but still balanced accross entire sole of feet. You can see his knees are pointed up the baselines just like his toes. This will allow him to easily shift his weight slightly for the outside pitches and still receive the ball in the middle of his body.
Catching Photos
This allows you to make a slight weight shift left or right to accomodate pitches on the corners and be set up and still when the umpires eyes drop to the plate area.
If you are low be sure to be able to keep contact with the ground accross the entire bottom of your foot. I see so many catchers set up on the insteps of their feet which points their knees in towards each other making it very difficult to shift weight to keep those pitches on the corners.
Go to the link below and open the album that's titled "Summer Camp". Look at the 2nd pic titled "Jay Receiving" Deep crouch for guy with huge legs, but still balanced accross entire sole of feet. You can see his knees are pointed up the baselines just like his toes. This will allow him to easily shift his weight slightly for the outside pitches and still receive the ball in the middle of his body.
Catching Photos
Catch Coach...I agree totally...I guess from the discussion I took the "deep" to be somewhat like you describe--a Santiago like stance..in the realm of the 4th pic of the young man with his tailbone almost on the ground...outside of feet are not on the ground...I think this causes unnecessary stress on the ankles, growth plate and the knees. I applaud you for your camp efforts...only thing I would offer is I have always been taught and still teach with runners on the foot you throw off of should be slightly behind and the toe pointed up the line while receiving the pitch...only cuts milliseconds off I understand...but it puts you in a better athletic position to throw correctly using either jump and turn, crop hop or throw from the foot directly..depending on arm strength. Just my thoughts!
By Gshew:
Solid stuff Gshew and Catch Coach.
I would just be careful that if you decide to cheat a little to help w/ pop times as stated above by Gshew, make sure it does not hinder your ability to block pitches, esp balls to your left.
quote:only thing I would offer is I have always been taught and still teach with runners on the foot you throw off of should be slightly behind and the toe pointed up the line while receiving the pitch.
Solid stuff Gshew and Catch Coach.
I would just be careful that if you decide to cheat a little to help w/ pop times as stated above by Gshew, make sure it does not hinder your ability to block pitches, esp balls to your left.
quote:Originally posted by Gshew:
Catch Coach...I agree totally...I guess from the discussion I took the "deep" to be somewhat like you describe--a Santiago like stance..in the realm of the 4th pic of the young man with his tailbone almost on the ground...outside of feet are not on the ground...I think this causes unnecessary stress on the ankles, growth plate and the knees.
Gshew, Do you mean the 3rd Pic? of the girl fastpitch catcher??
Catch 43,
Great question. I want to start off by saying I am 6'5" and weighed 245 when I caught with Tampa Bay and Boston's organizations. I was a guy that loved to "deep" as you call it early in my career. I don't suggest it to anyone due to the fact that it is so hard on your knees. I caught just as well with just as good of a window for the umpire to see the pitch without getting so low.
Low337 made a good point about asking your pitchers what they like. I had some pitchers that liked to throw to smaller targets, so I made myself lower. Others (the majority) loved having a big target back behind the plate to work with, so being more upright with your lower half was a good thing. One of the keys to handling a pitching staff is being able to find what they like and making it work for them.
To answer your question, it is not going to make scouts or your coach look at you any different if you are set "deep" or tall unless it affects your ability to receive. It you are a better (quieter) receiver in the deep position, you need to master it. If you are better tall, you need to work on that. If you are equal both ways, I would suggest the "tall" setup due to the fact that it is easier on your joints and gives your pitcher a bigger target in which to work with (as long as that is what they like).
Great question. I want to start off by saying I am 6'5" and weighed 245 when I caught with Tampa Bay and Boston's organizations. I was a guy that loved to "deep" as you call it early in my career. I don't suggest it to anyone due to the fact that it is so hard on your knees. I caught just as well with just as good of a window for the umpire to see the pitch without getting so low.
Low337 made a good point about asking your pitchers what they like. I had some pitchers that liked to throw to smaller targets, so I made myself lower. Others (the majority) loved having a big target back behind the plate to work with, so being more upright with your lower half was a good thing. One of the keys to handling a pitching staff is being able to find what they like and making it work for them.
To answer your question, it is not going to make scouts or your coach look at you any different if you are set "deep" or tall unless it affects your ability to receive. It you are a better (quieter) receiver in the deep position, you need to master it. If you are better tall, you need to work on that. If you are equal both ways, I would suggest the "tall" setup due to the fact that it is easier on your joints and gives your pitcher a bigger target in which to work with (as long as that is what they like).
Could not agree more Coach A...my short stint in AA taught me the same...quiet is a great word. I think it is a great visual for receiving and working behind the plate...Ive tried both ways and while capable...I felt alot better when I tried sitting up! Regarding, "cheating" to improve popup times...I dont think edging the foot from which you throw back a bit (toe even with instep of lead foot) is cheating.....guess I look at it this way...when I am sitting even footed (no runners) I dont really work on blocking....no one to block for...no need and wastes energy...as long as it does hit the ump! As I said earlier...receive, block, throw...keep them in order.
