defensive situation

There are a lot of variables in this one...
1.) What type of hitter was at the plate, middle of the order or a end of the order guy?
2.) How athletic are your infielders?
3.) How good are the outfield arm (strength and accuracy)
4.) What type of pitcher is on the mound? Strikeout guy? Sinker baller? Flyball pitcher?
5.) How fast is the runner at 2nd?

If you have a slow runner at second, good outfield arms, athletic infielders, I'd pull them in. If those things don't match up, probably play them back. Unfortunately, I don't think it's a one size fits all situation.


Depending again on a lot of variables (who's on deck, infield ability, etc.), it might have been appropriate to walk the hitter and pitch to the next guy to set up the double play.

It is a lot easier to make these decisions when you're not the one who has to make them. When I watch games on TV, I guess along with the manager... "walk this guy"... "steal"... "pull the infield in"... it's pretty easy from my couch. When it's our team on the field, it's much more difficult and I think about a lot more things.

You never know how the game might have turned out had he not played them in.

More often than not, I'd put the hitter on (since his run means nothing), play for two up the middle, play 3B even and tell him to play the ball how it takes him. This assumes that you have confidence that your pitcher will throw strikes and confidence in your defense. If you don't have confidence in either of these, I'd say play them in and hope for the best!

I should have been a little more specific. The 2 guys on base were both walked so walking the bases loaded was deffinately not an option. The outfielders arms were not very strong and any hit to the outfield would score the guy from 2nd I'd say...at least 75% of the time if not more. It wasn't the type of league where you know who's a great hitter, who's a great baserunner, etc. but the guy on 2nd looked fairly athletic as did the hitter. As for the middle infielders, the shortstop was a 3rd basemen/OF playing out of position and the 2B, me, is not exactly the greatest athlete the sport has ever seen. I still think the infield, at least the middle infielders, should have been playing back. We don't have the quickness to adjust to a hard hit ball so anything hit between 1st and 3rd, unless it was right at us, was probably going to get through.

quote:

Originally posted by nd943:
The 2 guys on base were both walked so walking the bases loaded was deffinately not an option.

And why do you say this? It's a strategy walk - you load the bases up and create a force play anywhere on the IF. His run means absolutely nothing so it doesn't matter.

As for the IF being up it's a coaches call and everyone has to live with it. If it works out great then he is a genius. If it doesn't work out then it's all his fault and he is stupid.

Not saying you don't understand this but this play didn't beat you in this game. You had seven innings (assuming it's a seven inning game) to score two or more runs than the other team. Your team failed to do this. You had seven innings to keep them from scoring more runs. Your team failed to do this. I'm not trying to be overly critical towards you or your team but this is what every team who loses a game has to face. They failed to get the job done for seven innings.

Myself personally (if I didn't know anything about the other team) I would have done what someone else said - walk the hitter to load the bases, Play my corners about even with the bag, MIF back for double play depth (if they are good enough to turn it).

If I knew what kind of team I was facing and knew the hitter was weak then I would probably do the same thing your coach did. Pitch to him and expect my pitcher and IF to get the job done.

From what you put it sounds like your coach may not trust your MIF ability to turn a double play. You said the SS is a 3B by trade and you are not the best athlete. No offense but doesn't add up to a good double play combonation.

You said it was a hard hit ball between you and the 3B and that neither of you have the quickness to adjust to a hard hit ball. Well nobody does and that is the problem with playing the IF in. Try to remember the last time you saw an IF make a play while playing in off to the side - I doubt you will unless it was a high, slow ball.

Best advice is not to try and second guess a coach too much but maybe ask him a day or two later why he made the decion(s) he did. If you can get into thinking like he does it will help your performace on the field.

Good luck rest of summer

I'm not trying to sound like the type of player that always second guesses the coach because I'm not. I almost always keep my mouth shut and play hard, but the way this loss happened really was a tuff one to take. We came back from being down 5-3 in the top of the 7th only to lose 6-5. As for walking the batter, that strategy goes out the window if you're not confident that the pitcher can throw strikes. My coach talked to me a couple days later about it and tried explaining what he was thinking. He said you play in to not let the tying run score because it's the bottom of the 7th and we don't get another at bat. I thought that would be the reason you'd play back, since giving up a go ahead run would end the game. He just gave me the ''I've been doing this a lot longer than you, I'm right.'' I wasn't trying to criticize my coach, I'm just a student of the game trying to figure out what others would have done in the situation.

we would walk the guy to load the bases 99.9% of the time regardless of how the other 2 runners got on base. . we'd play the corners in and middle dp depth since it was the tying run.
if it was the winning run at 3rd we'd play the infield and outfield in - possibly using an outfielder as a 5th infielder. we've had success doing that several times. we have actually held the runner on third like a 1st baseman would to take away the squeeze and use the outfielder as another leftside infielder since the 3rd baseman is holding and will have limited range. if its a team that isnt a squeeze threat we play the outfielder up the middle in front of 2nd base bag. we dont always bring the outfielder into the infield - its just a feel thing.
another coaching point - always throw out of the stretch with a runner on third. one or two steps in a primary or secondary lead can make all the difference inthe world.
im not saying there is a right or a wrong way to handle the situation - theres alot of "rights" - just what we do.

I like what you'd do with the 5th infielder. I've only actually seen that done once and I believe it worked. As for walking the guy to load the bases, it's not something I'd do at the high school level when you're not comfortable in the pitchers ability to throw strikes. Thanks everyone for the responses.

Raider - I have done the 5th outfielder as well. Probably the worst outcome I have seen with it is when my pitcher hit the batter to force in the winning run.

nd943 - what rule set are you playing? If you are playing under typical HS rules - NFHS - then all you have to do is say "we are walking this guy" and he takes his base without throwing a pitch. Now if you are playing under another set which makes you throw 4 pitches and he cannot throw to a catcher standing and stepping out then I am going to make a pitching change.

Walking the guy is sound strategy and I would say 99% of coaches would do it. I realize your not bashing your coach but sometimes the best choice still has the odds against you.

To me the adage: Play to win on the road and play to tie at home might apply. The home team has such a huge advantage in games where the score is tied going into the bottom of the 7th and extra innings. In this particular case where you're trying to preserve a lead and you're the visiting team, your strategy might tend to be more aggressive in preventing the tying run from scoring. I would walk the next batter, play middle at dp depth, and corners even or maybe a couple steps back.

In contrast, if you were the home team with the same situation (the top of 7th) you would typically use a strategy where a tie is not the worst thing to happen. Might be more willing to let the run score but play more standard defense to hopefully keep a big inning from happening.

just to clarify, I didn't think walking the hitter was a good idea because it would load the bases. He is not a control pitcher and had already walked 2 batters in the inning. I don't know, I guess I'm just not a fan of walking the bases loaded, especially at the high school level.

quote:

just to clarify, I didn't think walking the hitter was a good idea because it would load the bases. He is not a control pitcher and had already walked 2 batters in the inning. I don't know, I guess I'm just not a fan of walking the bases loaded, especially at the high school level.

So let me get this correct - bottom of the seventh, up one, one out and the tying run is at third and the winning run is at second.

You want to play the IF back but not create a force play to turn a double play to end the game.

Do you really not see the strategy involved in walking the guy who means nothing but creates a more favorable defensive situation? It has nothing to do with control - it's about putting your team in the best possible position to win the game.

You mentioned the ball was hit to the right of the SS and both runs scored. Can you guarantee the SS would have made the play if he had been playing normal depth? What if he doesn't make the play - now you have tie game, still one out and another runner on base and the winning run still at second or possibely on third.

Like someone said above - when on the road play to win. Maybe the hitter at the plate was looking terrible at the plate and your coach thought he would get out again - I don't know but I can make an argument for his thinking.

It has everything to do with control. Why would you walk a guy to create a better situation when you don't have confidence in the pitcher throwing strikes. If you put the guy on and he walks the next guy then the game is tied. If the infield was back it would have been a routine play for the SS and since the ball was hit in front of the baserunner he wouldn't have been able to advance..you'd have a guy on 2nd with 2 outs and a tie game. Also, the way the game was going, we were starting to hit the ball. I would have liked our chances in extras if it went that way.

you have to walk the guy. you are not giving your team a chance if you dont - especially on the high school level!!!

Walking the guy is still the best bet. Doesn't matter the age level or skill level or pitcher's ability.

I still need to know what rule set you are playing under for control to be an issue. If you are using high school rules then control is not an issue - you just say put him on and he is on base. No pitches thrown.

Now if you are worried about your pitcher's control then change him - yes I know you have no control over that - because he might walk the batter anyway and then possibly walk the tying run in too.

Walk the hitter and hope to get two.

Too many coaches get tight aarrssss in this situation. Play the percentages and stand by your decision.

coach2709,

That's what I was talking about, the control issues (as in walking the next guy). I compltely understand the idea of walking the batter, and normally, it would be the right call in that situation. But with no one else to bring in and a pitcher struggling with his control, I just wouldn't do it..just my opinion though. Thanks everyone for the responses.

Here's a variation on this situation that happened in our game the other day. We were tied in the bottom of the seventh. A lead off double, then a ground ball to second. So we have runner at third and one out. They walked our 6 hitter to set up the double play. My question is do you also walk the seven hitter to set up the 1-2-3, 5-2-3 or 3-2-3/1 DPs? As the game was happening I thought I would have walked the bases loaded. We ended up hitting a walk off homer, so it was a moot point.

What would you guys do in that variation?

Load the bases and play the IF about halfway or slightly more in. I don't want to stay back in doubleplay depth due to a slow roller.

It's situations like these you just hope for a strikeout to make everything easier.

Yeah they should have walked 'em loaded. Your 7 hole hit a walk off; I'd rather pitch to your 8-hole hitter and I've got a force at home on slow rollers that i can't get two on, i also just made the squeeze a tougher play for the offense with bases loaded. If my pitcher is wild I might not walk 'em loaded but let's face it, if you're the home team my chances are pretty slim and I'd load them to make my defensive chances easier.