Define "Great Work Ethic" please

Being a top level athlete in any sport is a lifestyle, a frame of mind, a commitment to you, your team and your coach.  5 out of the 7 days a week(at least) an athlete is either working on their body, training or skill set.  That includes eating right depending on the time of year and the training.  Baseball players should take 2-3 months off for their arm and shoulder but during this time is to work on legs,core strength and specialized upper body training for baseball.  Bottom line, if you only work on your game or body during coach's practice time, your playing years will be done faster than others.  Hitters basically should spend about an extra hour in cages, tee work and video away from team practice.  Mix in 1 hour of body training as well, a majority of the days.  College players lift/strength train/run at least an hour a day year round.

There is kid whose family I know who plays for a crosstown High School.  Kid started at Shortstop on Varsity in the beginning of the 2016 season but got moved to RF midway through the season due to too many errors.   I asked the kid how many grounders he got at team practices, he said "none, ever."

OK.   I later asked the Dad how many grounders a day the kid got outside of team practice?  He said "zero".   I'm thinking, yeah that doesn't sound like a Varsity Shortstop.

It depends on the talent level and level of competition.  At some point, talent will run out without the work ethic.  My buddy was a stud in HS at EVERYTHING he played.  He never had to do anything other than show up.  Drafted to play Pro out of HS.  Lasted four years before blowing up his shoulder.  Looking back he still kicks himself for not putting in the work when it was time.  He was 18-22 with a pocket full of cash playing baseball during the day and partying it away every chance he had.  

Can I work on the definition later? Maybe next week or something like that? I have some pokemon to catch . . .

2019Dad posted:

Can I work on the definition later? Maybe next week or something like that? I have some pokemon to catch . . .

Thank you 2019...  I was afraid I was going to have to read your contribution now...  And I am watching TV!

How much "great work ethic" is a HS player supposed to have?

Great work ethic is the motivation to put in whatever time and effort necessary to be the best player possible. Some people think they have great work ethic. What they don't understand is how much further the competition is willing to go to beat them.

There are guys in the majors like Pedroia while others are sitting at home (after being released) with more talent watching the game. They lacked the motivation, determination, passion and work ethic of Pedroia.

Players like Pedroia would bite the nails out of trees and spit them at you if that's what it takes to win.

My sons story on work ethic. Basically he played baseball from mid January- (winter work outs a couple times a week), games started late March, early April until end of July from 9 year old. He did  that from 8/9 to end of sophomore year in HS. He, also, played on very good travel team of players within a 40 mile range of home and traveled to surrounding state tournaments (about 3 a year) and then the tournaments within 90 miles of home the rest (usually 9 tournaments until HS). 

The rest of year he played basketball. Other than from mid January to late February they never mixed. Now he was a talented enough baseball player to make a div 1 HS (biggest in Ohio) as a freshman on an above average team and be the best player on that team by his sophomore year, so baseball came pretty easy for him. He had to work at basketball to earn a small role on varsity his sophomore year.

He could really hit and with power and was always a power arm for his age but not OMG power arm. End of his sophomore year, he decided he wanted to be a D1 baseball player and began to work on baseball from Mid January to Mid October. He played in a scout (PBR) fall league, did baseball related workouts twice a week from August until end of fall league and got his first real notice there fall of junior year as both a pitcher and hitter. AS soon as that fall league was over he done with baseball. Basketball had started in mid August and was in full swing by early September. He had to work to earn a starting role in that sport.

Started again in Mid January with baseball and began to work on it daily from as soon as basketball was over. Good HS Junior year. Summer had opportunity to showcase at biggest showcase in Ohio and did ok 83-86 MPH - touched 88. and a "maybe" as a D1 hitter. Over the important summer between junior and senior year he had many colleges looking at him including some D1 - heard thru grapevine at most games was sitting 85-88 and finally settled on a D1 walk on spot (only D1 offer of any kind). Stopped baseball in early September - on to basketball. His basketball and baseball teams had a chance to be very special for his school his senior year and he was a linchpin for both. He knew that and that is when he seriously began to work on both sports at once. Even during the crazy Jr / Sr year summer for baseball, he played basketball every day. He took off baseball for 6 weeks from mid September to early November. Then while basketball was the full time sport, he threw and hit 4 days a week.

Although he wasn't totally on baseball, he worked every day on his crafts. Come spring of Senior year, he was recorded in low 90's. I truly believe it was because he worked longer and more specific to baseball. Much like he had done for basketball since sophomore year. He was simply more gifted in baseball.

Now he is about to enter his RS sophomore year in college. What I see / hear from him about what he does to prepare is so much more than what he did in HS.

My son got more intentional in his work ethic as he got older. He had to balance that time between 2 sports he loved and had to work harder at basketball to be good so he did at that time. By Senior year HS he was overlapping both to be at his very top of his possible game. B

I guess all that was to say, some are more gifted than others and can get away with not working but eventually to continue competing, at some point the player has to embrace the grind or they will be left behind. For each player that may be a different point in his journey.  

And I don't know about you but I have a much better work ethic now than when I was 20. So I guess that may go on for life as well

TPM posted:

How much "great work ethic" is a HS player supposed to have?

 

I think this is a question without a simple answer.

In high school you come across such a variety of kids with a variety of future plans that it isn't reasonable to expect the same things out of them.

Serious baseball kids with plans to move on to college or pros should be putting in a lot of extra work outside of practices.  At the same time, do we expect the same of a kid who isn't planning to move on to those levels?

If that kid comes to practice every day and gives 100% effort, but outside of team practices would rather be working on SAT prep or college admission essays - does it mean he has poor work ethic?

On the flip side, if you have that kid planning to play at higher levels who spends extra hours practicing rather than studying, and ends up with grades that aren't as good as they could be as a result - well, does he have poor work ethic?

I don't think either of those kids has poor work ethic, but it can really depend on what set of eyes you are using to look at them.  Baseball teammates can look at the smart kid and think he doesn't care about the team enough to try to get better.  Teachers may look at the kid who puts in extra baseball time as a lazy student unwilling to put in extra work to get ahead.

In both cases, they are both right and wrong. The critics just don't have the full picture.  They don't see that both kids are willing to work hard at what is most important to them, and to make sacrifices to attain their goals.  When you get down to it - that's what great work ethic is.

My post if I said everything I wanted to say about this topic would be way too long. I will try and keep this is short as possible. A player only knows how hard he should be working by the examples set for him by his parents, coaches, peers and experiences. The environment that he is exposed to is what he knows. The expectations the program has for him, the examples set for him is what he is basing his work ethic on.

As a Coach I want to set the standard. I want to set the example. I will outwork everyone. And how do I know I am outworking everyone? Well what were the experiences I relate that to? What are the examples I have had that I can compare that to?

So how do you know? How do you know if you have a great work ethic? Never allow anyone else to outwork you. Do more than everyone else. If 9 is required of you. Do 10. If they are doing 10. Do 11. When they come up to your level and do 11. It's time to do 13. How do you instill this type of work ethic in a player. Well as a parent I believe it all starts at home. You set the example for your child. In everything you do. And you do not accept mediocrity. Mediocrity is failure. If you want to be average it is very easy. The examples are right there in front of you every single day. Just do what everyone else is doing. Follow their examples. But some kids are not as fortunate as others. Ok Coach. Ok team mate. Ok friend. Ok someone.

If you want to be special. If you want to be your very best. Then you develop your own standards. And those standards are higher, stronger, more, than everyone else. That's your work ethic. I believe that players want to be special. They just need the proper examples set for them. Simply doing what everyone else is doing is average. Your in a High School baseball program. You do exactly what everyone else does. Your an average player in a program. That is failure. You do more than everyone else in that program. If everyone buys into that what happens? You end up with everyone pushing everyone to achieve more every single day. There is no limit other than the limits we put on ourselves.

The single most important attribute a player can have is the desire to outwork everyone else. To achieve all he can possibly achieve. To be the very best he can possibly be. To know no limits. To see what the standards are and then refuse to accept those standards but to raise that bar. This will serve him for life. But even more important than that. His children will be given the precious gift in return. I refuse to allow less than all you have. I refuse to allow you to be average.

I tell players this. Never lay down at night believing anyone could have possibly done more than you today. Wake up with the desire to do more than you did yesterday. Never accept mediocrity. Your work ethic is who you are. You choose who you are. Your held to your standard not theirs. And your standard knows no limits.

And guess what? Even with this tremendous work ethic you may never start for me. And guess what? That won't mean a darn thing when your 30. What will matter is that you will be special. You will be the best employee, best husband, best father, best coach, best friend, best son, you could possibly be who will pass this awesome gift on to his children. I will take that over a talented player with no work ethic who fails at the most important game of all. The game of life. And you won't ever have to look in the mirror and wonder "what if."

3and2, my son's coach defines "great work ethic" as "Giving me 100% every single practice, show me you WANT the ball every single time the ball gets remotely close to you, dive into fences, layout for a line drive, show me you want the win."

He said there were lots of players who could get the ball if it was shot near them, but very few players want the ball with every fiber of their being. He didn't mention anything about what you do outside of practice.

Rob,

I agree. I think there is only so much that can be expected on the HS level.  

Maybe a player spends a lot of time trying to get better in a sport, but not enough time getting better in the classroom. Maybe another player spends more time in the classroom, doing community, clubs, other sports, projects and not enough time on the bb field getting better. Mostly its in the perception of how we view things.  

My son worked in HS when he wasnt on the field or in class. During recruiting he was delivering pizza. The coaches loved his work ethic.  He managed to get a 4.1 in honors and a very good scholarship. Does this mean he didnt have a great work ethic towards baseball.  

Working probably helped more to mold his work ethic than more practices and more gym.

Trust me when I say for most, you have no clue how hard you really need to work to become a better player, a better student, even a better teammate when one plays college. Its really hard to expect a great work ethic from a HS teen.  

Thats why I asked that question.

I left out work ethic in pro ball because that really doesnt apply to most here.

I told my kids (and players I coached) you never want to look back and think you were beaten because you could have done more to be a better player and more prepared. How this translates to a player is his work ethic. 

But this all has to be in balance with academics, family and everything else of importance in a person's life. Sometimes the "importance scale" slides back and forth.

great work ethic for my kid is always working on his game and wanting to be the best ,its 24-7 mindset,

for instance, when we where on our way to the 15u PG WWBA in Georgia last week ,I wake up from a short nap on the plane and look over to him and he's watching videos of his swing on his phone , you have to want to be better.

had to get a pic

TPM posted:

Rob,

I agree. I think there is only so much that can be expected on the HS level.  

Maybe a player spends a lot of time trying to get better in a sport, but not enough time getting better in the classroom. Maybe another player spends more time in the classroom, doing community, clubs, other sports, projects and not enough time on the bb field getting better. Mostly its in the perception of how we view things.  

My son worked in HS when he wasnt on the field or in class. During recruiting he was delivering pizza. The coaches loved his work ethic.  He managed to get a 4.1 in honors and a very good scholarship. Does this mean he didnt have a great work ethic towards baseball.  

Working probably helped more to mold his work ethic than more practices and more gym.

Trust me when I say for most, you have no clue how hard you really need to work to become a better player, a better student, even a better teammate when one plays college. Its really hard to expect a great work ethic from a HS teen.  

Thats why I asked that question.

I left out work ethic in pro ball because that really doesnt apply to most here.

 

 

I totally agree that there is only so much you can expect from a high school student. With school, study and homework time, practice and basic time to be a kid, that's probably most of the day. 

I basically tell my son to maximize the time in practice or workouts so that you won't need a ton of 'extra' reps. Does that mean that he doesn't get extra reps? No, but it's limited right now because of time constraints.

This has been a long busy summer with football workouts and week long baseball tournaments so I try to let him have as much downtime/normal kid time as possible. There is value in getting away from it all sometimes. 

 Opportunity, desire  and work intersect somewhere on the success scale for every player eventually.  Some have God given gifts that they just wake up with everyday.  Some take less natural ability and make it great through work.  I believe kids are either good baseball players at 9, 12 or 18 but seldom all three.  The question is- does he have that voice in his head that makes him work to be better when everybody tells him how good he is.

I really appreciate all the responses everyone.

For my rising 8th grader 13 year old kid, he just plain likes to outwork everyone in his age group that he knows.   Of course that could change as he gets older.   And the "who he knows" is the operative phrase.   I'm sure there are plenty of kids out there who work harder than him

Work ethic is a great life lesson. When I started my professional career my attitude was until I can out think my opponent and use experience to defeat them I'll out work them. When I gained knowledge and experience working hard made success easy. When success comes easy it's not a job any more. It becomes a passion.

Add: There's a danger to success. It's not guaranteed to be permanent. I've seen athletes and professionals get to the top and fall. They forgot what got them there. They started taking shortcuts. It's hard to get to the top. It's even harder to stay there. Being on top means being a target everyone else is aiming for. Never stop putting in the effort. Never take shortcuts.

Great Work Ethic I would say is working hard every day, I  think of it this way, improve 1 percent every day and work every day, that is improving substantially in a year or a couple of months. I am now doing my own made weekly workout plan. It consists of 2 days of lifting, 2 days of speed training, and hitting almost every day, unless I have a game. I also do cardio every day, just to stay in shape and to be doing something when I am not doing anything. Also, cardio is done before I lift as most testosterone is stored in your legs so when I run it is released to the rest of my body allowing for more "gains". And I run before speed training to get lose and as a warm up. Also do it just because I might not be doing anything so I will just run. Any advice you guys can give would be appreciated, as when I post my own forum I do not get a lot of response.  Attached is the lifting plan that I got from a college that I went and visited.

At the high school level, several things say 'Great work ethic' . The obvious are  guys that do stuff OUTSIDE the HS program/ schedule ( private lessons, travel ball, Gym ) and guys that work hard in the classroom. Also, full effort on ALL on field HS drills regardless of interest level