Define "recruited."

I would think that being recruiting is when a coach expresses interest that goes beyond a generic camp invite, although it could include a camp invitation.

I will say X University is recruiting my kid when

1) they send a coach to the cage, or a high school or summer game to come see JUST HIM play, or 

2) they invite him for an official visit.

And maybe not even #1.

Interesting, waiting for others to see their thoughts. My son was recruited when coaches asked him to call them to talk about their interest in him. I do not think he was recruited via email. Of the serious inquiries all were communicated via a surrogate and he was asked to call a coach or RC. Towards the end when he was at his apex of interest from colleges, RCs walked up to our travel coach and communicated offers etc to get us to visit or asked him to have son call for visit. 

CmassRHPDad posted:

I will say X University is recruiting my kid when

1) they send a coach to the cage, or a high school or summer game to come see JUST HIM play, or 

2) they invite him for an official visit.

And maybe not even #1.

Just want to clarify.

"Official visit" only?  Meaning school pays for kid's travel expenses and it's during his senior year?  

Or do you consider an invite for an Unofficial Visit (meaning family pays travel expenses and it must be prior to HS senior year) being recruited?

Shoveit4Ks posted:

Interesting, waiting for others to see their thoughts. My son was recruited when coaches asked him to call them to talk about their interest in him. I do not think he was recruited via email. Of the serious inquiries all were communicated via a surrogate and he was asked to call a coach or RC. Towards the end when he was at his apex of interest from colleges, RCs walked up to our travel coach and communicated offers etc to get us to visit or asked him to have son call for visit. 

+1

My son has had phone conversations with a couple coaches but I'm not sure if it's too early in the process for him or if they are just tire-kickers. This was before the quiet period so it's hard to tell. That's why I say I'll feel more confident if/when I start seeing them show up at his games.

I think first we have to distinguish between a school 'being interested'. The coach going to the cage or game is an example of that vs being recruited. If we use the strictest definition of being recruited the conversation is just about moot cause it will be so obvious as to not be able to miss it. In other words if you have to ask yourself if your son is being recruited there is a 99.9% chance he is not. When they make the decision their interest phase has moved to full on recruiting...  they will make it quite obvious to you.  We are going through it now with my daughter. Small scale stuff - D3 swimming so not like BCS football or anything. But there are coaches who showed mild interest, those who have said they would like her to come there, then there is one school in particular who happens to have a need for a breast stroker (her best stroke) who has just deluged her with personalized mail including. Christmas card personalized by the whole team. Phone calls, E mails, a meet and greet with the whole team at a meet she went to while actually visiting the opponents school. And she is taking a visit next week. There is no possible way you could not recognize it when they 'recruit' you. The coach is working so hard they actually have me rooting for them!  Now obviously it is even more intense at the higher levels. I would say don't worry about recognizing 'the signs' of being recruited, trust me they will make it obvious!  The better and trickier question is how do you know if they have any real interest at all?

#1 Assistant Coach posted:

CmassRHPDad posted:

I will say X University is recruiting my kid when

1) they send a coach to the cage, or a high school or summer game to come see JUST HIM play, or 

2) they invite him for an official visit.

And maybe not even #1.

"Official visit" only?  Meaning school pays for kid's travel expenses and it's during his senior year?  Or do you consider an invite for an UV (meaning family pays travel expenses and it must be prior to HS senior year) being recruited?

Personally, I would include UV's as being recruited because offers are often extended during UV's. Schools can spend a lot of time with a family during a UV. I don't think coaches would spend several hours if there was some serious interest. 

#1 Assistant Coach posted:

CmassRHPDad posted:

I will say X University is recruiting my kid when

1) they send a coach to the cage, or a high school or summer game to come see JUST HIM play, or 

2) they invite him for an official visit.

And maybe not even #1.

Just want to clarify.

"Official visit" only?  Meaning school pays for kid's travel expenses and it's during his senior year?  

Or do you consider an invite for an Unofficial Visit (meaning family pays travel expenses and it must be prior to HS senior year) being recruited?

 

I don't know. It's our first go-around and, I'm definitely not an expert. My son was invited for an "official" visit but, it was to our local D3 state school, and Big Boy's pitching coach said he should be aiming higher. I guess if a school that he's really interested in shows a lot of love and highly encourages an unofficial visit, that would give me a warm and fuzzy feeling.

CmassRHPDad posted:

#1 Assistant Coach posted:

CmassRHPDad posted:

I will say X University is recruiting my kid when

1) they send a coach to the cage, or a high school or summer game to come see JUST HIM play, or 

2) they invite him for an official visit.

And maybe not even #1.

Just want to clarify.

"Official visit" only?  Meaning school pays for kid's travel expenses and it's during his senior year?  

Or do you consider an invite for an Unofficial Visit (meaning family pays travel expenses and it must be prior to HS senior year) being recruited?

 

I don't know. It's our first go-around and, I'm definitely not an expert. My son was invited for an "official" visit but, it was to our local D3 state school, and Big Boy's pitching coach said he should be aiming higher. I guess if a school that he's really interested in shows a lot of love and highly encourages an unofficial visit, that would give me a warm and fuzzy feeling.

I'm no expert either but I believe an Official Visit has to be during senior year, NCAA allows student-athletes to take 5 max (maybe 4? not sure)?  And the school pays for player's travel, excluding family members. And D-3s possibly have different rules for OVs and UVs too.  No idea on that.

Personally, whether a UV (unofficial visit) or an OV (official visit), they both constitute "being recruited."  Most baseball players seem to only do UVs, as most seem to wrap up their recruitment and commit to a school prior to Sept. 1 of their senior HS year.  Not all, but most.  Therefore, negating the need for an OV in fall of senior year.  

Although I think some schools use the OV opportunity in fall for bringing their entire recruit class to campus for sort of recruit class introductory experience.  Don't know, but I believe I've heard this. Correct me someone if I'm wrong. 

I think there are a few of good indicators:

1) They straight up tell you, "we're recruiting you;"

2) The tell your summer/high school coach they are recruiting you;

3) A personal phone call;

4) You're asked to visit the campus (outside of a camp environment).

Another we have run into is invitations to "junior days" which are supposedly limited to a small number of actual recruits. We have one coming up this weekend. My initial reaction was that this was much like any mass recruiting tool, but when my son called the RC he intimated that it was only a small group of kids they were seriously interested in. While I may be a little skeptical, I find it somewhat reassuring that they have a "Prospect Camp" the week before and my 2018 didn't get an invitation to that and the coach never once even suggested it. I also have seen this school represented at a couple of his appearances over the summer.

I hazily recall that there can be a huge difference when it comes to transferring and sitting out: if a player was recruited, he must sit to D1 to D1 transfer and is able to avoid it if he wasn't recruited.

Perhaps buried somewhere in NCAA rules are examples.

True. NCAA definition of recruited is wide ranging so one needs to be careful.

Picked Off posted:

True. NCAA definition of recruited is wide ranging so one needs to be careful.

Yeah. Entirely different issue. If you need the definition of "recruited" for purposes of what a "recruited walkon" is, DO NOT get your definitions from advice on a message board.

#1 Assistant Coach posted:

CmassRHPDad posted:

#1 Assistant Coach posted:

CmassRHPDad posted:

I will say X University is recruiting my kid when

1) they send a coach to the cage, or a high school or summer game to come see JUST HIM play, or 

2) they invite him for an official visit.

And maybe not even #1.

Just want to clarify.

"Official visit" only?  Meaning school pays for kid's travel expenses and it's during his senior year?  

Or do you consider an invite for an Unofficial Visit (meaning family pays travel expenses and it must be prior to HS senior year) being recruited?

 

I don't know. It's our first go-around and, I'm definitely not an expert. My son was invited for an "official" visit but, it was to our local D3 state school, and Big Boy's pitching coach said he should be aiming higher. I guess if a school that he's really interested in shows a lot of love and highly encourages an unofficial visit, that would give me a warm and fuzzy feeling.

I'm no expert either but I believe an Official Visit has to be during senior year, NCAA allows student-athletes to take 5 max (maybe 4? not sure)?  And the school pays for player's travel, excluding family members. And D-3s possibly have different rules for OVs and UVs too.  No idea on that.

Personally, whether a UV (unofficial visit) or an OV (official visit), they both constitute "being recruited."  Most baseball players seem to only do UVs, as most seem to wrap up their recruitment and commit to a school prior to Sept. 1 of their senior HS year.  Not all, but most.  Therefore, negating the need for an OV in fall of senior year.  

Although I think some schools use the OV opportunity in fall for bringing their entire recruit class to campus for sort of recruit class introductory experience.  Don't know, but I believe I've heard this. Correct me someone if I'm wrong. 

http://www.ncaa.org/student-at.../what-official-visit

Does not specify Senior year but maybe there is another doc somewhere with more detail.

CmassRHPDad posted:

http://www.ncaa.org/student-at.../what-official-visit

Does not specify Senior year but maybe there is another doc somewhere with more detail.

 

D1 is allowed 5 official visits and they can begin with the first day of classes in a students senior year.  D2, D3 & NAIA have unlimited official visits.  You can only make one official visit per school.

In D1 baseball, schools are limited and can only provide 25 official visits pre-NLI date (31 total).

http://www.ncaa.org/student-athletes/resources/recruiting-calendars?division=d1

Page 105, 13.6.2.2.1

Not too hard to see differences between camper, prospect and recruit, but recruit as we are seeing could mean different things. We often receive advice about casting a wide net. Colleges do this as well. So to add another layer, do we differentiate between a RECRUIT vs recruit? I would think that going to watch a player in a game and encouraging an unofficial visit (in which all or most of the coaching staff are there) are good signs.

Son attended 2 junior days (Root mentioned them). We were surprised at how many players were present; son realized that some serious recruits maybe didn't attend  due to travel. What we took from the junior days was good information on coaching philosophies, as well as insights from players who were frank. One school turned off son, the other piqued his interest.

There is a big difference in being recruited and being a recruit.  It's like being interested and buying.  It's like being scouted and  being a draft pick.

Until an offer is given you aren't a recruit.  Colleges can show great interest, attend all your games, even have you visit, but never make an offer.  When and if they make an offer, they are recruiting you.  Everything else is simply showing interest.  Of course if they actually say they are recruiting you, I guess someone would think they are being recruited.  But real recruiting involves an offer of some kind.

PGStaff posted:

There is a big difference in being recruited and being a recruit.  It's like being interested and buying.  It's like being scouted and  being a draft pick.

Until an offer is given you aren't a recruit.  Colleges can show great interest, attend all your games, even have you visit, but never make an offer.  When and if they make an offer, they are recruiting you.  Everything else is simply showing interest.  Of course if they actually say they are recruiting you, I guess someone would think they are being recruited.  But real recruiting involves an offer of some kind.

I took the OP as asking how we are using this term in informal conversations. That may have been an irresponsible assumption depending on why he was asking (i.e. the restrictions on a "recruited walk on"). From a more informal viewpoint, more than one coach has asked my 2018, "Who else is recruiting you?" Of course this is usually asked after they ask about any offers.

To add to the above, this question has often confused him as well. He also has never been clear as to who is "recruiting" him.

I also think it also depends on where the players is in the decision-making process.  Some schools won't make an official offer until the player says he's ready to commit but the school is ready to offer. 

You can break down "being recruited" into 4 phases. 

1. Evaluated

Some kids will call themselves "recruits", but all that is really happening is they're being evaluated.  Going to a camp/showcase/tournament doesn't make you a recruit, it makes you a player who has the chance to be evaluated. Showing up doesn't make you a recruit.  It gives you the chance to become a recruit. 

2. Interested

After you are evaluated, you might get some interest from a coach.  This still isn't being "recruited".  Interest means that a coach wants to know more to determine if you have the potential to be a recruit.  Interest can be qualified as follow up from a coach after an event.  Sometimes interest can happen before you are evaluated. For example, a college coach respects the opinion of your summer coach who puts you on the college coach's radar.  The coach might be interested in learning more about you...doesn't mean you are a recruit.  

3. Recruited

When you are actively being recruited by a school you'll know it.  Recruits are encouraged to visit campus.  ASKING A COACH TO VISIT CAMPUS, and BEING ASKED TO VISIT CAMPUS are two very different things.  Recruits get asked, and they get asked personally.  This does not mean junior day invites, or the "if our school is at the top of the list we encourage you take a campus tour." This means a phone call or personal email saying we want you and your family to come sit in our office and learn more about our program.  Then you are being recruited. Until this point, the coach is just interested.  

4. Offered

If you had any concern you weren't a "recruit", that'll be alleviated when you receive an offer! 

BRIANTRC,

Great break down.  Agree with much, probably all.  The "INTEREST" level is a significant step to designate.  Makes complete sense. 

I'm going to ask a follow-up on your differentiation between "ASKING A COACH TO VISIT CAMPUS," and "BEING ASKED TO VISIT CAMPUS."  There were plenty of times in son's journey where we'd be in a different state, travelling to a tournament, or a vacation, or even a camp, and son would make contact with coaching staff of a college in the area we found ourselves in.  He'd email, call, whatever, a few days before and get thru to someone on staff, and say hey, I'm going to be in the area, here's my video, my stats, etc.  Coaches EVERY TIME said "sure, come on by."  We did this at least 6-times over his journey to his high-academic U.  Did it for basketball also.  Was a great way to see more schools.  Son got on several Power-5 campuses for impromptu visits (IVs?) this way.  I recommend it highly.  Do not be bashful.  There's nothing to lose.  All they can say is no.  But I gotta say, they never did.  Son did this a lot. 

But back to your point, for a coach to welcome a kid for usually an hour impromptu visit, they have to be interested?  Even if it's based on an out of the blue email with video, and attractive baseball resume?  I mean, their time is precious?  Yes.  They must get these type "CAN I VISIT CAMPUS" emails often?  A coach has to be judicious in deciding who they say "yes" to.......no?

@#1 Assistant Coach

You make a great point. Reaching out prior with an email asking to visit is absolutely something I would suggest. As you said, it tends to pay off, and coaches will give you their time and be accommodating.  This is definitely in the interest category for me. Certainly you can turn into a recruit from that meeting. However, this could also be a coach being cordial. And for example, I coached at a Division III school where we probably had 5 to 10 requests per week for visits.   You can only imagine what a power five conference gets per week as far as visit requests. We made our best efforts to give time to everyone who requested a visit. We felt it was part of the job to honor those requests if a family was going to take the time to show interest in our program and try to learn more.  Sometimes these visits resulted in our staff wanting to pursue the player more. Sometimes the  visits were our staff just being accommodating. I think it varies based on the program, but you'll find most coaches will be accommodating.

The one piece I will add is make sure you reach out prior. Nobody likes having a head pop in their office asking for 10 minutes to sit down and talk. Although it's not a traditional desk job, it is still a job and coaches are at work when they're on campus.

#1 assistant coach knocked it out of the park w/ this post. In my opinion,  based on my personal experience , The fundamental problem with recruiting is that parents and kids do not know how to gauge REAL interest .

 The simple answer to #1 assistant coaches question regarding being a RECRUIT is ' you gotta be on the ink board '

Each baseball department has a white ink board and on it they list and prioritize their recruits and commits for 2017 thru 2019 maybe 2020 if it's a powerhouse program (it's worth noting that these powerhouse top 25 Vandy, UCLA etc  Were done with 2017 recruiting class two years ago)  All the commits , Recruited ( offered ) & prospects  names are listed and categorized and organized on the board by position, Class ( graduation year ) , and ranking on the board. In other words under ' LHP' their might be 6 names . 2 commits and 4 prospects. These 'prospects' are ranked 1-4 . One being THEIR 1st choice and 4th being THEIR last.

There are 5 stages to the recruiting cycle :

1) Follow

2) high follow

3) Prospect

4) Recruit

5) Commit

Here is a breakdown of what that looks like:

FOLLOW : In programs data base. Possibly by way of info submitted by player. There may or may not be any notes on the player. Follows are on the email list to receive program updates, camp invites. etc. the FOLLOW data base is HUGE. A lot of names. Being in the FOLLOW data base does NOT define interest by the program.

HIGH FOLLOW : A player in the follow data base that they have seen play. They have notes on. A HIGH FOLLOW is basically the same as a FOLLOW but they've actually seen the player play.

PROSPECT : A player the college has seen play and is seriously considering OFFERING . The Recruiting coordinator has seen the player play, met the player, spoken with him,Requested transcripts / Standardized test scores ( ACT/ SAT ) and possibly spoken to HS coach or travel ball coach. There is discussion about a campus visit.

*The easiest way to tell if you are a PROSPECT and not a FOLLOW is the telephone. NCAA Recruiting coordinators CALL / TEXT prospects. They DO NOT call follows .

RECRUIT: A player that has visited the school and been OFFERED a guaranteed roster spot thru the spring of his freshman year. These offers usually involve baseball scholarship money.....but not always. Coastal Carolina won the NCAA college world series w/ 6 guys on the roster that were 'academic money' guys. It's important for parents and players to understand that most schools are NOT fully funded. The NCAA allows for 11.5 baseball scholarships maximum per Division 1 school. But out of 300 programs last year, only 50 were fully funded. Most schools are at 8.5 some at 5 or maybe 6.5

A recruit has an offer from the school he is considering and may be in negotiation w/ that school on the terms . These negotiations can last several months. With an offer being given  and the player not satisfied. The player generally says 'Thank you I'm flattered but I'm not quite ready to commit yet' and the school re-approaching the player a few months later with a better offer,

COMMIT: A player that has agreed to an offer. If baseball money is involved , the player will sign a binding letter of intent outlining contractually his commitment to the school. NLI's are fedex'd to recruits the 1st week in November before the players senior year.

The biggest hang up I've seen w/players and mostly parents is they can not differentiate between HIGH FOLLOW and PROSPECT. They assume because a program has not said NO that it indicates that they may still have interest. That is a fatal mistake. They never say no unless you ask. These coaches will tell you the truth if you ask. The problem is that 17 year old boys don't want to ask. And the parents should NEVER ask.

I tell guys to call the RC and ask this question: ' Where am I at on the 2017 board?' If the player does that, they'll get the truth.

Having watched my son go thru this process, I can firmly say that when a school wants your son to play for them they make their intention crystal CLEAR. There is absolutely no ambiguity whatsoever .

Appreciate the inside line on how coaches take those "Can I visit" email requests.  Even if the coaches are simply being cordial, and I'm not surprised so many simply would host a kid if even out of a feeling of duty and obligation to "sell" their school and/or program.  

If even it is a dead-end, I gotta say it prepped son for the times when the visits did count.  Kind of like a practice interview.  Think about it.  Getting on as many campuses, ideally thru coaches hosting you in any capacity, whether you solicit or they do, preps your kid for the day down the road when it is for real.

I'll never forget when a D-1 hoops HC asked son on one of these solicited visits (son asked them, and they accommodated), "What's the first thing you think of in the morning when you get up?"  HC was looking for answers like "food," or "hoops."  My son said, "How to add velocity to my fastball."  Let's just say the visit went downhill after that remark.  Ol' sonny-boy and I then had a discussion in the car that went like so, "Look smart guy, when visiting a basketball program, talk BASKETBALL!  And when visiting a baseball program, talk BASEBALL!!"  

Needless to say, he never made that mistake again.

Thanks Coach.

On the many UVs S did (defined as meeting a coach on a visit to the campus - many, many over the HS years), if the meeting occurred in the coaches office, he often got a peek at the Board. 

On the OVs and the more serious UVs, when it was time to close the deal with M and D, we got to study the board - surreptitiously.

Emphasizing Asst Coach's point, these UVs - especially the early ones - are free job interviews, each providing a learning experience. In the overwhelming number of cases, S went in alone and we debriefed him in the car - which allowed us to discuss how to be better the next time. 

As to junior days, we did a couple and found that they were no more than athletic oriented mass tours. In fact, it was more disconcerting than helpful as literally a hundred players, parents and siblings showed up all vying for attention.

When you hear we want to make an offer, you are officially being recruited.

Until then you could be under consideration, gathered interest, a possibility, or any number of things.

When a college coach decides he wants a player, he is going to make an offer. He is not going to wait around and lose the player he wants. As others have said, it will be crystal clear. That offer doesn't have to be a good one, but they are recruiting you. If there is no offer of any kind, be it academic, athletic or other, you are not really being recruited at that time. It doesn't mean you won't be recruited later.

Typically the best prospects end up with many offers. The guy with no offers is not really being recruited and will need to find a college. Almost always there will be a college that gets interested when players contact them. Sometimes unrecruited players that no one showed interest in end up being very successful.

They refer to those they have offered and successfully recruited as their recruiting class. The proper language to describe any interest by a college is by saying the college has shown some "interest". That does not mean they are recruiting you. But I suppose if they tell someone they are recruiting them, I could see why someone would believe that. But the truth is they sometimes even change their mind about the players they actually did recruit.

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StrainedOblique posted:

#1 assistant coach knocked it out of the park w/ this post. In my opinion,  based on my personal experience , The fundamental problem with recruiting is that parents and kids do not know how to gauge REAL interest .

 The simple answer to #1 assistant coaches question regarding being a RECRUIT is ' you gotta be on the ink board ' Period.

Each baseball department has a white ink board and on it our their recruits and commits for 2017 thru 2019 maybe 2020 if it's a powerhouse program (it's worth noting that these powerhouse top 25 Vandy, UCLA etc  Were done with 2017 recruiting class two years ago)  All the commits , Recruited ( offered ) & prospects  names are listed and categorized and organized on the board by position, Class ( graduation year ) , and ranking on the board. In other words under ' LHP' their might be 6 names . 2 commits and 4 prospects. These 'prospects' are ranked 1-4 . One being THEIR 1st choice and 4th being THEIR last.

There are 5 stages to the recruiting cycle :

1) Follow

2) high follow

3) Prospect

4) Recruit

5) Commit

Here is a breakdown of what that looks like:

FOLLOW : In programs data base. Possibly by way of info submitted by player. There may or may not be any notes on the player. Follows are on the email list to receive program updates, camp invites. etc. the FOLLOW data base is HUGE. A lot of names. Being in the FOLLOW data base does NOT define interest by the program.

HIGH FOLLOW : A player in the follow data base that they have seen play. They have notes on. A HIGH FOLLOW is basically the same as a FOLLOW but they've actually seen the player play.

PROSPECT : A player the college has seen play and is seriously considering OFFERING . The Recruiting coordinator has seen the player play, met the player, spoken with him,Requested transcripts / Standardized test scores ( ACT/ SAT ) and possibly spoken to HS coach or travel ball coach. There is discussion about a campus visit.

*The easiest way to tell if you are a PROSPECT and not a FOLLOW is the telephone. NCAA Recruiting coordinators CALL / TEXT prospects. They DO NOT call follows .

RECRUIT: A player that has visited the school and been OFFERED a guaranteed roster spot thru the spring of his freshman year. These offers usually involve baseball scholarship money.....but not always. Coastal Carolina won the NCAA college world series w/ 6 guys on the roster that were 'academic money' guys. It's important for parents and players to understand that most schools are NOT fully funded. The NCAA allows for 11.5 baseball scholarships maximum per Division 1 school. But out of 300 programs last year, only 50 were fully funded. Most schools are at 8.5 some at 5 or maybe 6.5

A recruit has an offer from the school he is considering and may be in negotiation w/ that school on the terms . These negotiations can last several months. With an offer being given  and the player not satisfied. The player generally says 'Thank you I'm flattered but I'm not quite ready to commit yet' and the school re-approaching the player a few months later with a better offer,

COMMIT: A player that has agreed to an offer. If baseball money is involved , the player will sign a binding letter of intent outlining contractually his commitment to the school. NLI's are fedex'd to recruits the 1st week in November before the players senior year.

 

The biggest hang up I've seen w/players and mostly parents is they can not differentiate between HIGH FOLLOW and PROSPECT. They assume because a program has not said NO that it indicates that they may still have interest. That is a fatal mistake. They never say no unless you ask. These coaches will tell you the truth if you ask. The problem is that 17 year old boys don't want to ask. And the parents should NEVER ask. I tell guys to call the RC and ask this question: ' Where am I at on the 2017 board?' If the player does that, they'll get the truth.

Having watched my son go thru this process, I can firmly say that when a school wants your son to play for them they make their intention crystal CLEAR. There is absolutely no ambiguity whatsoever .

 

 

One of the fun things about this site is getting to know people, albeit over the internet, but I have gotten to know some folks on here.  SO speaks the truth here regarding the whiteboard.  I just happened to be at D-1 camp where SO's son ended up.  I saw team's "white board," and guess whose name was at the top?

SO Jr.

Inspiring and funny at the same time!  

#1 Assistant Coach posted:

Appreciate the inside line on how coaches take those "Can I visit" email requests.  Even if the coaches are simply being cordial, and I'm not surprised so many simply would host a kid if even out of a feeling of duty and obligation to "sell" their school and/or program.  

If even it is a dead-end, I gotta say it prepped son for the times when the visits did count.  Kind of like a practice interview.  Think about it.  Getting on as many campuses, ideally thru coaches hosting you in any capacity, whether you solicit or they do, preps your kid for the day down the road when it is for real.

I'll never forget when a D-1 hoops HC asked son on one of these solicited visits (son asked them, and they accommodated), "What's the first thing you think of in the morning when you get up?"  HC was looking for answers like "food," or "hoops."  My son said, "How to add velocity to my fastball."  Let's just say the visit went downhill after that remark.  Ol' sonny-boy and I then had a discussion in the car that went like so, "Look smart guy, when visiting a basketball program, talk BASKETBALL!  And when visiting a baseball program, talk BASEBALL!!"  

Needless to say, he never made that mistake again.

Thanks Coach.

Hilarious!! Hey, Sonny Boy catch a clue will ya

True story: Player at my daughter's HS (all league, good looking player - unrecruited for reasons beyond me) went on vacation with family and popped in to local D1 school's baseball office in June and asked if the coach was available to speak. Administrative gate keeper did their job and said "Sorry, he's not available." They explained they were on vacation from out of town, happened to be from the same town the gate keeper was from. "Hold on just a minute." Now the coach was available and could see them.

Discussion with coach ended up with coach telling him he didn't have any openings for his position, but wanted to know if he knew a good pitcher who was available. Kid said he did and gave him his contact info. That kid ended up signing with the school.

Fast forward a month, pitcher now at the school and guess what? The starting 1B gets hurt in a moped accident and cannot play that season. Guess who got that call to see if he was available? Yep...played 4 seasons there.

And now you know the rest of the story.

FWIW,

2013 and 2014 received tons of snail mail / email for every camp and showcase around..... 2016 did not receive much and 2018 did not receive any camp / showcase stuff.  I found it strange.... the older two were juco players then mid major d1, so not studs out of high school . 2016 went academic D3 to Tufts... not a stud out of high school.  2018 , committed early to SEC school , maybe he just came off the market early....

When the text and call you... your being recruited.

#1 Assistant Coach posted:

The current "College Camps" thread got me thinking; specifically about knowing whether you are a camper, a prospect, or a recruit when attending college camps.  I think it's pretty clear what being a "camper" means.  But what defines "recruit?"

What does, "being recruited by Big State U" actually mean?  What does "being recruited" actually look like?  To say a school is recruiting you means what, exactly?

In other words, does receiving mass camp emails mean you are being recruited by a school (I know, but I just thought I'd throw it in there for the newbies)?  Or is the line of demarcation receiving an interest phone call thru your travel coach?  Or is the line at an invitation for an UV to the campus?  A 20-minute phone conversation?  What?

Just curious how people define, "being recruited?

-mass camp email?

-interest phone call thru coach?

-invitation for visit?

-direct phone call to son's cell from college coach?

-or for the stingy Webster's people out there............in order for one to be a "recruit" one must have an offer IN HAND?

Thoughts on defining "being recruited?"

My understanding is that there is a difference between being a recruit and being recruited.

According to Rick at The Informed Athlete one is considered being a recruited athlete if the college takes one of the following actions (according to the NCAA).

If they provide the prospect with an official visit.

If they have an off-campus contact with the prospect or parents or guardians.

If they offer the prospect a NLI or an athletic scholarship agreement.

If they initiate a telephone conversation with the prospect, his parents or legal guardian more than one time.

According to my understanding, frequent email conversations with a prospect does not define being recruited unless one of the actions above occurs.

Now we know times have changed due to early recruiting.  But IMO a coach can text and email lots and lots of "recruits", but until you get that offer, you technically aren't considered a serious recruit until one of the above takes place.

Define "recruited." -

When a coach recognizes a program's needs for talent and willingness to either provide (a) scholarship money (b) an opportunity for scholarship money or (c) assistance with college admission (or possibly all three) in exchange for the player's willingness to apply to the college and join the team.   It is a very low supply, high demand process whereby the coach is always trying to get the best talent he possibly can through admissions. 

SanDiegoRealist posted:

True story: Player at my daughter's HS (all league, good looking player - unrecruited for reasons beyond me) went on vacation with family and popped in to local D1 school's baseball office in June and asked if the coach was available to speak. Administrative gate keeper did their job and said "Sorry, he's not available." They explained they were on vacation from out of town, happened to be from the same town the gate keeper was from. "Hold on just a minute." Now the coach was available and could see them.

Discussion with coach ended up with coach telling him he didn't have any openings for his position, but wanted to know if he knew a good pitcher who was available. Kid said he did and gave him his contact info. That kid ended up signing with the school.

Fast forward a month, pitcher now at the school and guess what? The starting 1B gets hurt in a moped accident and cannot play that season. Guess who got that call to see if he was available? Yep...played 4 seasons there.

And now you know the rest of the story.

Goes to show. You never know.

What are the rules for off-campus contacts? We live in a town with a D3 college, run into the college baseball coach frequently. Is that okay? In same town, a family friend has a son who just became a D1 baseball coach. He had reached out previously to my 2018 about potential interest in his new school. He came home for Christmas and ran into 2018 at the gym. Can they chat? Sounds like they went with an awkward wave in the hallway, but would be nice to know the rules.

StrainedOblique posted:

#1 assistant coach knocked it out of the park w/ this post. In my opinion,  based on my personal experience , The fundamental problem with recruiting is that parents and kids do not know how to gauge REAL interest .

 The simple answer to #1 assistant coaches question regarding being a RECRUIT is ' you gotta be on the ink board '

Each baseball department has a white ink board and on it our their recruits and commits for 2017 thru 2019 maybe 2020 if it's a powerhouse program (it's worth noting that these powerhouse top 25 Vandy, UCLA etc  Were done with 2017 recruiting class two years ago)  All the commits , Recruited ( offered ) & prospects  names are listed and categorized and organized on the board by position, Class ( graduation year ) , and ranking on the board. In other words under ' LHP' their might be 6 names . 2 commits and 4 prospects. These 'prospects' are ranked 1-4 . One being THEIR 1st choice and 4th being THEIR last.

There are 5 stages to the recruiting cycle :

1) Follow

2) high follow

3) Prospect

4) Recruit

5) Commit

Here is a breakdown of what that looks like:

FOLLOW : In programs data base. Possibly by way of info submitted by player. There may or may not be any notes on the player. Follows are on the email list to receive program updates, camp invites. etc. the FOLLOW data base is HUGE. A lot of names. Being in the FOLLOW data base does NOT define interest by the program.

HIGH FOLLOW : A player in the follow data base that they have seen play. They have notes on. A HIGH FOLLOW is basically the same as a FOLLOW but they've actually seen the player play.

PROSPECT : A player the college has seen play and is seriously considering OFFERING . The Recruiting coordinator has seen the player play, met the player, spoken with him,Requested transcripts / Standardized test scores ( ACT/ SAT ) and possibly spoken to HS coach or travel ball coach. There is discussion about a campus visit.

*The easiest way to tell if you are a PROSPECT and not a FOLLOW is the telephone. NCAA Recruiting coordinators CALL / TEXT prospects. They DO NOT call follows .

RECRUIT: A player that has visited the school and been OFFERED a guaranteed roster spot thru the spring of his freshman year. These offers usually involve baseball scholarship money.....but not always. Coastal Carolina won the NCAA college world series w/ 6 guys on the roster that were 'academic money' guys. It's important for parents and players to understand that most schools are NOT fully funded. The NCAA allows for 11.5 baseball scholarships maximum per Division 1 school. But out of 300 programs last year, only 50 were fully funded. Most schools are at 8.5 some at 5 or maybe 6.5

A recruit has an offer from the school he is considering and may be in negotiation w/ that school on the terms . These negotiations can last several months. With an offer being given  and the player not satisfied. The player generally says 'Thank you I'm flattered but I'm not quite ready to commit yet' and the school re-approaching the player a few months later with a better offer,

COMMIT: A player that has agreed to an offer. If baseball money is involved , the player will sign a binding letter of intent outlining contractually his commitment to the school. NLI's are fedex'd to recruits the 1st week in November before the players senior year.

 

The biggest hang up I've seen w/players and mostly parents is they can not differentiate between HIGH FOLLOW and PROSPECT. They assume because a program has not said NO that it indicates that they may still have interest. That is a fatal mistake. They never say no unless you ask. These coaches will tell you the truth if you ask. The problem is that 17 year old boys don't want to ask. And the parents should NEVER ask.

I tell guys to call the RC and ask this question: ' Where am I at on the 2017 board?' If the player does that, they'll get the truth.

Having watched my son go thru this process, I can firmly say that when a school wants your son to play for them they make their intention crystal CLEAR. There is absolutely no ambiguity whatsoever .

 

 

It is threads like this that demonstrate how great this board is. I don't know where else this type of information could be found.

Follow up questions for StrainedOblique and the other posters on this thread, specific to the bolded text above. Scenario is: player has sent an email and some videos to some schools that will be at or near events that player will play in over the summer. A couple of the RCs have arranged for the player to call them (through travel coach) and have had initial phone conversations with player (and in one case seemed to know an awful lot about the player). And they or their head coach will see him play this summer. So two questions:

(1) Really, that seems more like a high follow than a prospect, at least until they see him play . . . or would video be enough to put a kid into the "prospect" category?

(2) How many "prospects" will a D1 program have? 100? 200? 500? What is the reasonable range?

At a Stanford camp my 2017 attended, one of the main coaches said they have a database with as many as 500 Freshman and Sophomores on it based on questionnaires filled out by prospects, coach references, camp observations, etc.  He said they have to track such a large group because they cannot pursue early commitments because they cannot know if a Freshman can meet their academic criteria.  He said many of these kids will be "high follow" but they need to track a player's academic progress as the PSAT, SAT and ACT scores and transcripts come in to determine if they can even get in to the school before they really can "recruit" them.  That list gets cut and trimmed regularly until they find a match of academics and baseball ability.

Another high academic D3 told us their "high follow" list is over 200 players going into the Fall of the Senior year class because there is so much fall out from kids not being able to get admitted before they can even get them committed as baseball players. Then when they can get the kid through an early read from admissions, the recruit list is still around 25 players because kids will not get enough financial aid to afford the school (and no athletic money is available) or choose another public school.

For the D1s who secure early commitments, they must work from a smaller group and can be more selective in who they recruit.  The challenge for the elite programs is that they need to over recruit due to the loss of kids to the MLB draft.  UCLA has 12 commitments for 2017 including at least three kids identified as potential 1st round draft picks.

Thanks Backstop. That is good info and all makes sense. My 2019 is my oldest, so this is all new to me. To boil it down, I guess what I'm asking is: I get that it's good for the RC to have a telephone call with a kid and say nice things, but do they do have calls with 100 kids in a class? 1000 kids? I have no idea of the scale of things.