Everyone knows it takes the whole team to win a game and nobody is bigger than the team. Babe Ruth hit more homeruns than the rest of the Yankee team combined.Do you think that wasn't publicly acknowledged for fear of offending someone? Most people celebrate success and every player's contribution to the team.
CADad
No comparisons have been made to any injured, disgruntled or young players here. i guess you believe kids shouldn't be graded or receive test scores because it might hurt someone who got poor grades and went on to be successful?
No comparisons have been made to any injured, disgruntled or young players here. i guess you believe kids shouldn't be graded or receive test scores because it might hurt someone who got poor grades and went on to be successful?
quote:Originally posted by standup:
TPM
You have flushed me out of retirement.
As he kindly acknowledged I originally posed my question to PGSTAFF privately twice about a week apart but unknowingly did so at a time that was understandably inconvenient for him. Had it been a more convenient time the post would have never been made.
. Around here nobody even considers early signing for guys that just entered their junior year in high school. Even the recent Marlins MLB draftee Realmuto didn’t commit to OSU until the fall of his senior year as everyone does locally.
Sorry I didn’t answer your repeated question. I guess I missed it while attempting to address the 50 or 60 posts. As for the tournaments played in my son doesn’t pick them and just goes as part of the team. He is fortunate his coach makes a great schedule. I have met a couple of juco coaches at those events that told me they thought he could play and gave me their card and later reviewed his videos before calling me to express verbal interest. No tournaments compare to PG’s visibility from what I’ve seen. Though it is no big deal 29 college coaches have been in communication with my son including a half dozen personal emails and phone calls. You can see on his page that 62 coaches have viewed his profile and they all send questionnaires and camp invitations. At his favorite D1 School, he loves the coaches and they seem to really like him. I have never met them and stay out of the way. They have seen him almost every week this fall when he was not traveling.
I have been positive about all of the players mentioned and they were mentioned only because another poster questioned the quality of the pitching.
When I see undrafted guys like Brendan McCurry from Roff Oklahoma hit 130 homeruns in high school including 47 in 72 games and play for the Elk City Travelers with an ERA of 1.01 and twice as many extra base hits as strikeouts in a season, I have no illusions about my son’s (or most anyone’s) future in baseball but that’s what he loves to do and its taught him a lot of good life lessons.
It is pretty obvious to me that a PG ranking is valuable to a player, particularly if they develop to the point they are draft quality at the end of high school. Like many have said it’s not what you do but what they see u do and the endorsement of the most respected scouting service is a huge deal even if some guys can make it without it. The flip side is even with it you have to perform or it doesn’t matter. By the way, there is a PG nationally ranked 2011 player on his own team that my son beat out at 3rd base and I guess if I had made the comparison with him I would have had to add the other two returning senior players to the comparison because between the 3 of them combined had no homeruns and about a third of his extra-base hits in the same 28 games. But we all know now that is not what is important though it does explain my question on rankings.
Fascinating.
There are about 100 posts.
To me, the point of this thread is clear.
standup, or his son, did not get a ranking by PG. Others did.
standup feels that those who have ratings are either the same or not as good as the player on the website.
This is between standup and PG because PG apparently did not rank standup's son and did not respond to emails or PM's.
Everyone else is just getting in the way and nothing will get in the way of standup expressing his views about PG rankings and their being wrong or inadequate as they relate to his son and as they relate to those ranked.
I don't believe standup is asking for any input and don't think he cares about any responses other than PG. Suggestions of long term issues or repercussions are without meaning.
standup views his son to be infallible because of his skills, as they are supported by stats. He seems willing to take on all comers including PG to prove his point.
I do have to grin, though, standup on your view about the importance or relevance
of extra base hits vs. strikeouts.
During two years of HS and one Summer of Legion, our son went something like 220 or something AB's without a strikeout. During 2 different years in college, he struck out 7 times, or less.
Necessarily he had more extra base hits, even though he surely was not a power hitter..ever.
infieldad
Your insight is always appreciated. I think PG is awsome and wish we knew about them sooner. Clearly their are players out there who through no fault of anyone's are unknown and some other guys that may look great in a uniform and had their big day at a showcase. I'm also pretty confident that happens rarely. I understand that no ranking system is perfect and think PG does an incredible job. My son is far from infallible and has alot to work on but I understand your comment. It's pretty cool how your son had so few strikeouts. I first heard the term "professional hitter" used by a minor league coach describing a player with more extra-base hits than strikeouts which in that case was Dustin Pedroia.
Your insight is always appreciated. I think PG is awsome and wish we knew about them sooner. Clearly their are players out there who through no fault of anyone's are unknown and some other guys that may look great in a uniform and had their big day at a showcase. I'm also pretty confident that happens rarely. I understand that no ranking system is perfect and think PG does an incredible job. My son is far from infallible and has alot to work on but I understand your comment. It's pretty cool how your son had so few strikeouts. I first heard the term "professional hitter" used by a minor league coach describing a player with more extra-base hits than strikeouts which in that case was Dustin Pedroia.
quote:I understand that no ranking system is perfect and think PG does an incredible job.
standup, it is probably just me and it sure does not matter how I read the entire thread.
This comment in the context of many others sounds/reads like being ****ed with faint praise.
Probably just me.
Thats funny!
I think its real easy to pick out the flame throwers like Bundy, Bradley and Hope from Oklahoma as they may never set foot on a college campus going out of high school. If your strength is hitting its a little harder to be obvious unless your Bryce Harper or Buster Posey. It astounds me how few players make it to the level your son is at. He must have alot of heart and talent.
I think its real easy to pick out the flame throwers like Bundy, Bradley and Hope from Oklahoma as they may never set foot on a college campus going out of high school. If your strength is hitting its a little harder to be obvious unless your Bryce Harper or Buster Posey. It astounds me how few players make it to the level your son is at. He must have alot of heart and talent.
Standup, I believe I see a change of heart in you in these last few posts. Much less defensiveness and venom. And I commend you for that. The only thing I would have left to say, is what I have said before and what others have said. If you want your son publicly recognized, get him in front of the people who do the recognizing. I really don't think you can fault PG (the organization, not the person on this board) for not ranking your son, when your son has not been put in front of them. At some point, we have to take responsibility for what goes on in our lives. For you, the responsibility is getting your son noticed by the right people.
If your goal is to have him ranked by PG, get him to PG showcases and tournaments. BTW, that is not necessary if your goal is not to have him ranked. If your son's goal is to go to a particular college, then the coach and recruiting coordinators of that college are the ones you need to get him in front of. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks as long as those coaches think your son can contribute. It's really as simple as that.
Once again, I hope some of what people on this board have said has been helpful and I wish you and your son the best of luck.
If your goal is to have him ranked by PG, get him to PG showcases and tournaments. BTW, that is not necessary if your goal is not to have him ranked. If your son's goal is to go to a particular college, then the coach and recruiting coordinators of that college are the ones you need to get him in front of. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks as long as those coaches think your son can contribute. It's really as simple as that.
Once again, I hope some of what people on this board have said has been helpful and I wish you and your son the best of luck.
quote:Originally posted by standup:
There is a whole world of wonderful high school base ball players that ...
Let me finish that sentence for you...
...you have no idea about from your myopic Oklahoma view.
It's glaringly apparent that your knowledge of the baseball universe is very limited. That's ok, everyone starts there. But to come to a baseball site, with hundreds of people who have traveled the path long before you, and tell them how their bear cr@ps in the wood is just foolish.
Unlearned parents with more answers than questions are generally more damaging to their sons progress than helpful. I pretty sure that comment won't help you, as you stopped listening before starting this thread, but hopefully others that come along to read this may benefit.
I am from the same school of thought as CPLZ. To come on here and bash people who have gone through the same exact things you are going through and are trying to help you through it is ridiculous. Then to try to retract everything you say and patch things up?...sounds like you are the president of the United States...
If your son wants to play baseball at the next level, keep doing what he's doing. You say he's getting offers from schools and having success- then who cares about the rankings? Your comments are rude, your diatribes are unnecessary and your interpersonal comparisons are inappropriate.
Best of luck to your son in his quest to play college ball. Its a fun ride if you let it be
If your son wants to play baseball at the next level, keep doing what he's doing. You say he's getting offers from schools and having success- then who cares about the rankings? Your comments are rude, your diatribes are unnecessary and your interpersonal comparisons are inappropriate.
Best of luck to your son in his quest to play college ball. Its a fun ride if you let it be
A bit about comparing stats--- this is from the same area a few years back---the local media was touting a young man from a very very small school who had a great BA, supposedly 60 plus RBI's in 25 games. He was to be a major D-1 school player as well as a top round draft pick--one major problem--his league was very very weak--the numbers were suspect-- and he was not that good---he never got a D-1 offer; he never got drafted and never even made the local communit college team--
Bottom line-- so much for stat comparisons--the two players behind him in the local newspaper stat sheet, both players from large schools, went to D-1 programs and played 4 years.
Bottom line-- so much for stat comparisons--the two players behind him in the local newspaper stat sheet, both players from large schools, went to D-1 programs and played 4 years.
Standup, you really just don't get it do you?
We also have to realize that HS and College coaches/ Pro scouts are probably frequenting this site and taking notes.
I have never seen JH simmer like this and that means something.
I have never seen JH simmer like this and that means something.
Another small point. Your son is older than most of his classmates, probably more physically developed as well. This especially stands out in the first two years of high school. I'd be careful sticking your neck out so far and thumping your chest until he at least proves himself at the college level when everyone else is as physically developed as he is.
standup has taken his beating here and I think everyone has said their peace....
A couple of observations from my experiences here over the years...
In general, hype to me means insecurity. Deeds not dialog is the key.
We had a member here many years ago that came here like gang busters. His kid was the greatest thing since sliced bread and maybe the best prospect of all time (according to him) and he held a huge grudge against PG for not ranking him. His kid was the best sophmore prospect in the state (according to him) yet we heard little from him when his numbers tanked as a junior. Seems all they would throw his prodigy was junk balls because everyone feared the kid's ability to turn on the 95 mph fastball - oh my! There were always "explanations" (cough, cough excuses) when reality did not live up to the hype.
We got tons of inuendo about how all the southern schools were recruiting him yet he ends up with a mid D1 here in the midwest. We got tons of inuendo how all the pro scouts were after him yet he went undrafted in high school and after his junior year in college. In short, the father was obnoxiously infatuated with his own son. It has always stuck in the back of my mind whether or not the father cost his son opportunities because he simply was so over the top, people merely crossed the son off the list.
I am not suggesting standup is like this guy but am suggesting he let his son's actions do the talking and forget about hyping the stats. None of us are smart enough to discern what they mean. The hitting videos are a good idea however. There, people can make up their own minds.
One other story...
My only experience with a showcase type event was when my son tried out at Coastal Carolina University. Before the event, I couldn't believe what I was hearing in the stands. I thought I was going to be witnessing the reincarnation of Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, and Sandy Koufax. People were openly bragging about how great their kids were and in my own naive way, I was intimidated somewhat by that. I thought, well lets see what happens. After the event was over, it was clear to me that all the hype was merely from posers that were hoping their kids were good enough. These same people were shaking their heads after the event and muttering their kids didn't quite measure up.
standup - get your boy to an event and let that do the talking. Anything more detracts from the effort imho and very well could cost your son dearly.
A couple of observations from my experiences here over the years...
In general, hype to me means insecurity. Deeds not dialog is the key.
We had a member here many years ago that came here like gang busters. His kid was the greatest thing since sliced bread and maybe the best prospect of all time (according to him) and he held a huge grudge against PG for not ranking him. His kid was the best sophmore prospect in the state (according to him) yet we heard little from him when his numbers tanked as a junior. Seems all they would throw his prodigy was junk balls because everyone feared the kid's ability to turn on the 95 mph fastball - oh my! There were always "explanations" (cough, cough excuses) when reality did not live up to the hype.
We got tons of inuendo about how all the southern schools were recruiting him yet he ends up with a mid D1 here in the midwest. We got tons of inuendo how all the pro scouts were after him yet he went undrafted in high school and after his junior year in college. In short, the father was obnoxiously infatuated with his own son. It has always stuck in the back of my mind whether or not the father cost his son opportunities because he simply was so over the top, people merely crossed the son off the list.
I am not suggesting standup is like this guy but am suggesting he let his son's actions do the talking and forget about hyping the stats. None of us are smart enough to discern what they mean. The hitting videos are a good idea however. There, people can make up their own minds.
One other story...
My only experience with a showcase type event was when my son tried out at Coastal Carolina University. Before the event, I couldn't believe what I was hearing in the stands. I thought I was going to be witnessing the reincarnation of Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, and Sandy Koufax. People were openly bragging about how great their kids were and in my own naive way, I was intimidated somewhat by that. I thought, well lets see what happens. After the event was over, it was clear to me that all the hype was merely from posers that were hoping their kids were good enough. These same people were shaking their heads after the event and muttering their kids didn't quite measure up.
standup - get your boy to an event and let that do the talking. Anything more detracts from the effort imho and very well could cost your son dearly.
standup, I sent you a private message. I hope you find it helpful.
Well said CD...
I remember Gatorade players of the year in their state, that couldn't make their colleges starting rotations (mid major 100+ RPI).
The thing is, college is different and they are not ranking players to project in HS, their rankings are based on how they'll fare at the next level.
A kid throwing straight high cheese at 95 is going to set state HS records for strikeouts and then get lit up like a pinball machine in college. Seen it happen. This is why HS stats are meaningless...and they are meaningless. Anyone who thinks they have an iota of importance beyond HS is deluding themselves. And they have absolutely zero meaning when it comes to comparative analysis in HS. You see the player and rate his tools, project his growth and maturity and then rank his potential vs. the others. HS stats mean ZERO....except as something to be proud of as a personal achievement.
I remember Gatorade players of the year in their state, that couldn't make their colleges starting rotations (mid major 100+ RPI).
The thing is, college is different and they are not ranking players to project in HS, their rankings are based on how they'll fare at the next level.
A kid throwing straight high cheese at 95 is going to set state HS records for strikeouts and then get lit up like a pinball machine in college. Seen it happen. This is why HS stats are meaningless...and they are meaningless. Anyone who thinks they have an iota of importance beyond HS is deluding themselves. And they have absolutely zero meaning when it comes to comparative analysis in HS. You see the player and rate his tools, project his growth and maturity and then rank his potential vs. the others. HS stats mean ZERO....except as something to be proud of as a personal achievement.
Before my son went off to begin his college career this fall, the father of one of the kids on his high school team pulled him aside and gave him some advice. The father played along side Barry Larkin at Michigan, inducted into UM hall of fame, played in Omaha for 3 years and had a nice minor league career. Basically he said ignore all the talk from the kids who shoot their mouths off about their accomplishments, rankings, etc and focus on getting better each day. The "talkers", he said, won't be around in a couple of years.
Good advice.
Good advice.
If your good you dont have to talk. If your good others will do the talking for you. If your good it doesn't matter what anyone else says good or bad. You let your play do the talking and you keep your mouth shut about yourself. The fact is no one wants to here you pump yourself up. No one wants to hear your mom and pop pump you up. The more they do it the more people will resent you and look past what you do well and focus on what you dont do well.
People may not want to hear that buts its the truth like it or not.
People may not want to hear that buts its the truth like it or not.
Late to the party but a comment about stats. A different sport, but how many college star quarterbacks who put up great numbers, never get drafted or fall to the late rounds. It's all about what works at the next level. 6'0" college QBs don't work in the NFL. (except D. Brees) 6'3" college QBs without big arm strength don't make it or project to the NFL. There are exceptions but not very many.
In any sport it's tools that attract attention not numbers. If you can really use those tools your a major leaguer. And if you have big time tools you'll get many chances to fail because of them. Jeff George may have had the best arm in the NFL so he got many chances to prove he didn't have anything else.
This thread is another example of the collective assimilating a newbie with an attitude. Resistance is futile.
In any sport it's tools that attract attention not numbers. If you can really use those tools your a major leaguer. And if you have big time tools you'll get many chances to fail because of them. Jeff George may have had the best arm in the NFL so he got many chances to prove he didn't have anything else.
This thread is another example of the collective assimilating a newbie with an attitude. Resistance is futile.
"If you build it they will come"
...and boy did the posters ever come. Hey Stand Up did you get what you were after?
...and boy did the posters ever come. Hey Stand Up did you get what you were after?