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We have gone down thisd road many times before---HS stats are not what get you ranked or rated---in perdon evaluations are what are used as a criteria.
Is being ranked by Perfect Game the reason your son is playing baseball?
In our high school conference, the class of 2010 hitting statistics were significantly higher across the board compared to the 2009 class. The reasons were simple. There was far less high quality pitching in the conference in 2010 and the weather was unusually warm in the spring of 2010. The wind was consistently blowing out throughout the season.
Those are just a few examples of variances that exist in comparing high school statistics, and that is when you are comparing only the same conference. The variances grow when comparing different conferences, different enrollments, etc.
We had two players drafted in our conference last year. Did either have the best stats in the conference for their position? Not even close.
Those are just a few examples of variances that exist in comparing high school statistics, and that is when you are comparing only the same conference. The variances grow when comparing different conferences, different enrollments, etc.
We had two players drafted in our conference last year. Did either have the best stats in the conference for their position? Not even close.
JH
For some people it is all about ratings and rankings
For some people it is all about ratings and rankings
standup
Realize that in the "real" world most do not look at stats because of one simple reason--stats are not created equal due to various levels of competition and the scorekeeper
Realize that in the "real" world most do not look at stats because of one simple reason--stats are not created equal due to various levels of competition and the scorekeeper
standup,
Your son is talented. I really don't like public comparisons other than video displays showing both without any opinions or statistics attached.
Perhaps we have seen the other player more often. However I don't understand why you chose this particular kid to compare with. He is one of the highest ranked players in the country and no one who follows this stuff would disagree.
When scouts grade hitters or any other tool, statistics do not enter. If they did the wrong kids would be getting millions of dollars every year.
I'm not saying stats are meaningless here. Just that they can't be used for comparing one player to another. The player you are using for comparison has been seen hitting with wood as well, or better, than any player in the class and against the top pitching in the class. He is from Southern California and plays for a team that competes against the very best regularly. We have only seen him hit with metal one time, many times with wood. He has upper deck raw power. Most players of this caliber don't use recruiting sites to promote themselves. It's simply not necessary for them.
Your player we have seen recently and he is from Oklahoma. Definitely a good baseball state, but can't compare to Southern California when it comes to competition. That doesn't mean that the best player in the country is not in Oklahoma, but it might explain any statistical difference. There's probably a kid somewhere in a small town in Iowa that has much better stats than both them boys. It's one thing to play against top competition a few times and playing against it most all the time. Your son should be congratulated for having such great stats and I'm sure things will work out for him. He definitely has some talent.
Rankings are an ongoing thing. They change frequently as time goes on. Right now the player you are using for comparison is a legitimate first round candidate in 2012. Other than statistics, it seems unfair to everyone concerned to use that kid for a comparison.
Might as well compare stats to Josh Hamilton. The same or even better stats don't make a player a better prospect. That said, it is possible he could be a better prospect.
I hope you don't feel as if any of what I said here is impolite. Sure don't mean it that way.
Just keep performing and doing the best you can. Hopefully we will recognize that or the scouting world will take serious note and let us know. Seriously there is no recommendation. We don't follow the website recruiting sites to find players to rank. Neither do scouts or most college coaches.
You don't have to attend our events to be ranked, though it could help. You do need to get out there to as many big events as possible. East Coast Pro, Area Codes, Team USA, etc. We need to know running times, arm velocity, see BP live, watch players field, etc. The statistics are not enough all by themself, no matter how good they might be. Tools are of extreme importance.
Your son is talented. I really don't like public comparisons other than video displays showing both without any opinions or statistics attached.
Perhaps we have seen the other player more often. However I don't understand why you chose this particular kid to compare with. He is one of the highest ranked players in the country and no one who follows this stuff would disagree.
When scouts grade hitters or any other tool, statistics do not enter. If they did the wrong kids would be getting millions of dollars every year.
I'm not saying stats are meaningless here. Just that they can't be used for comparing one player to another. The player you are using for comparison has been seen hitting with wood as well, or better, than any player in the class and against the top pitching in the class. He is from Southern California and plays for a team that competes against the very best regularly. We have only seen him hit with metal one time, many times with wood. He has upper deck raw power. Most players of this caliber don't use recruiting sites to promote themselves. It's simply not necessary for them.
Your player we have seen recently and he is from Oklahoma. Definitely a good baseball state, but can't compare to Southern California when it comes to competition. That doesn't mean that the best player in the country is not in Oklahoma, but it might explain any statistical difference. There's probably a kid somewhere in a small town in Iowa that has much better stats than both them boys. It's one thing to play against top competition a few times and playing against it most all the time. Your son should be congratulated for having such great stats and I'm sure things will work out for him. He definitely has some talent.
Rankings are an ongoing thing. They change frequently as time goes on. Right now the player you are using for comparison is a legitimate first round candidate in 2012. Other than statistics, it seems unfair to everyone concerned to use that kid for a comparison.
Might as well compare stats to Josh Hamilton. The same or even better stats don't make a player a better prospect. That said, it is possible he could be a better prospect.
I hope you don't feel as if any of what I said here is impolite. Sure don't mean it that way.
quote:What are recommendations for non ranked players becoming ranked?
Just keep performing and doing the best you can. Hopefully we will recognize that or the scouting world will take serious note and let us know. Seriously there is no recommendation. We don't follow the website recruiting sites to find players to rank. Neither do scouts or most college coaches.
You don't have to attend our events to be ranked, though it could help. You do need to get out there to as many big events as possible. East Coast Pro, Area Codes, Team USA, etc. We need to know running times, arm velocity, see BP live, watch players field, etc. The statistics are not enough all by themself, no matter how good they might be. Tools are of extreme importance.
Standup,
I personally believe a high PG ranking is a very helpful door opener for a player, especially an underclassman with lots of time left in the process. It's one thing to try to open a conversation with an e-mail to a coach. It's quite another to be able to slip in a link to a PG web page and have them see your ranking and rating and realize that maybe, out of all the e-mails they receive, this one might just be someone they should follow up with.
So, when you express interest in the ratings and rankings, I totally get it. Even if others choose not to.
The way you get a better ranking is to get your son in front of PG for an evaluation. If he's never been to one of their showcases, the Underclass events are coming up and it's not too late to go to one. If those are cost-prohibitive, choose a different event closer to home.
See if he can get noticed enough to get invited to PG National in June. That will get him all the attention he could ever ask for.
And make sure his summer team has at least one trip to East Cobb, GA on its schedule. If not, find another team.
All of the above being said, understand that as good a job as PG does, there are players they miss every year and every college coach knows that. Coaches love to find that gem that everyone else overlooked -- all the more so because, if he's not terribly well known, they might get him for a lower percentage offer than otherwise. So if your son doesn't end up with a ranking, or with the ranking he would like, don't despair. But I do still concur that if he has it in him to get into the top 500, it's worth pursuing.
I personally believe a high PG ranking is a very helpful door opener for a player, especially an underclassman with lots of time left in the process. It's one thing to try to open a conversation with an e-mail to a coach. It's quite another to be able to slip in a link to a PG web page and have them see your ranking and rating and realize that maybe, out of all the e-mails they receive, this one might just be someone they should follow up with.
So, when you express interest in the ratings and rankings, I totally get it. Even if others choose not to.
The way you get a better ranking is to get your son in front of PG for an evaluation. If he's never been to one of their showcases, the Underclass events are coming up and it's not too late to go to one. If those are cost-prohibitive, choose a different event closer to home.
See if he can get noticed enough to get invited to PG National in June. That will get him all the attention he could ever ask for.
And make sure his summer team has at least one trip to East Cobb, GA on its schedule. If not, find another team.
All of the above being said, understand that as good a job as PG does, there are players they miss every year and every college coach knows that. Coaches love to find that gem that everyone else overlooked -- all the more so because, if he's not terribly well known, they might get him for a lower percentage offer than otherwise. So if your son doesn't end up with a ranking, or with the ranking he would like, don't despair. But I do still concur that if he has it in him to get into the top 500, it's worth pursuing.
quote:Originally posted by standup:
Stats don't mean everything but real world performance will take you alot further than an "old timers" perception or lack of it.
From this response, what I get out of it, is that you're pi$$ed off your son doesn't get more attention because his stats are just as good as the stars.
The statement above is completely ignorant. It is 100% the perception of the "old timers" that dictates where your son goes. Those old timers are the scouts that draft and sign players. Those old timers are the coaches that recruit players...or not. And once recruited, it is the perception of the old timer coaches that determine his playing time. No one signs a kid because of his stats...NO ONE...they sign a kid based on their evaluations, i.e. the perceptions of old timers. The whole pretext for your statement is completely false.
Baseball is a very small world. You're not helping your son by coming on and behaving like a dirtball, telling others what is and isn't true in the baseball universe.
Anyone whose been here any length of time knows for sure that I am no apologist for anyone, especially TR, but everything he has told you here is honest and correct. It's a shame you weren't listening and and shameful that in response to his honesty you take shots through sarcasm and mockery.
Try decaf...and next time you want to try and make a statement, don't try and cloud it in a question as if you actually wanted to listen to an answer, because that is obviously not the case...just throw it out there.
Appreciate you sharing your knowledge PG Staff. Next time I send a pm it would be nice to avoid
"I don't understand why you chose this particular kid to compare with"
Chosen only because of top ranking. Could have been a comparison of 4 local area code players from one HS team who combined don't have as many varsity extra-base hits as sourced by Max preps this year. However they are good pitchers and though my son's team beat them twice this year with his 8 RBI's in two games helping out, i think they are wonderful players.
"It's one thing to play against top competition a few times and playing against it most all the time.""Can't compare to Southern California when it comes to competition."He is from Southern California and plays for a team that competes against the very best regularly." "There's probably a kid somewhere in a small town in Iowa that has much better stats than both them boys." "Definitely a good baseball state, but can't compare to Southern California when it comes to competition."
In concept all of this is true. But in this specific case there is little doubt that the pitching at Decker Omaha and Senior Legion 19U and Oklahoma State Championships is far more competitive than average California HS pitching. I lived there for 25 years. A more realistic comparison would be the other players performance for the San Digo show which are not published.
"Definitely a good baseball state, but can't compare to Southern California when it comes to competition."
2010 USABF World Series Champion Oklahoma Travelers outscored California teams 87-27 in 10 games during that tournament.
2010 Legion World Series Champions Oklahoma Outlaws outscored all teams 102-37 in 12 games during that tournament. Combined National Championship Tournament record is 21-2 with 132 K's. Wherever your from, if you hit well against these teams you are a hitter.
As For CPLZ please get out your glasses and re-read the post before you tyrade calling people dirtball because you have difficulty with context. I was referring specifically to TRhit & JH who label themselves as "old timers".If you are going to make wrong assumptions and mis-quotes about people you really ought to tell your wife. Maybe she cares. Just remember every one in the baseball world has gotten along fine without you as it shall continue.
"I don't understand why you chose this particular kid to compare with"
Chosen only because of top ranking. Could have been a comparison of 4 local area code players from one HS team who combined don't have as many varsity extra-base hits as sourced by Max preps this year. However they are good pitchers and though my son's team beat them twice this year with his 8 RBI's in two games helping out, i think they are wonderful players.
"It's one thing to play against top competition a few times and playing against it most all the time.""Can't compare to Southern California when it comes to competition."He is from Southern California and plays for a team that competes against the very best regularly." "There's probably a kid somewhere in a small town in Iowa that has much better stats than both them boys." "Definitely a good baseball state, but can't compare to Southern California when it comes to competition."
In concept all of this is true. But in this specific case there is little doubt that the pitching at Decker Omaha and Senior Legion 19U and Oklahoma State Championships is far more competitive than average California HS pitching. I lived there for 25 years. A more realistic comparison would be the other players performance for the San Digo show which are not published.
"Definitely a good baseball state, but can't compare to Southern California when it comes to competition."
2010 USABF World Series Champion Oklahoma Travelers outscored California teams 87-27 in 10 games during that tournament.
2010 Legion World Series Champions Oklahoma Outlaws outscored all teams 102-37 in 12 games during that tournament. Combined National Championship Tournament record is 21-2 with 132 K's. Wherever your from, if you hit well against these teams you are a hitter.
As For CPLZ please get out your glasses and re-read the post before you tyrade calling people dirtball because you have difficulty with context. I was referring specifically to TRhit & JH who label themselves as "old timers".If you are going to make wrong assumptions and mis-quotes about people you really ought to tell your wife. Maybe she cares. Just remember every one in the baseball world has gotten along fine without you as it shall continue.
quote:Originally posted by standup:
Just remember every one in the baseball world has gotten along fine without you as it shall continue.
...he says in his sixteenth post in less than 2 months here...an instant expert is born. Next time, bring a thimble, we'll try and get it half full with all that baseball world knowledge of yours.
Standup,
I have been following this website for some time and I can tell you that I honestly believe that TR, PG Staff, and CPLZ know as much as anyone I know about talent evaluation. Once you get over your frustration, re-read the posts carefully and reconsider your exposure strategy for your son. "They know of what they speak."
I have been following this website for some time and I can tell you that I honestly believe that TR, PG Staff, and CPLZ know as much as anyone I know about talent evaluation. Once you get over your frustration, re-read the posts carefully and reconsider your exposure strategy for your son. "They know of what they speak."
standup,
Got to standup for TR and JH (definetly not an "old timer" except in posts) here, although you did not care for how they responded to your question, they are right and make good points, as does PG (especially about comparisons, read carefully his entire post) and Midlo (PG ratings and rankings can open doors). RRF8 also brings up a good point (see last paragraph)as does CPLZ.
Your topic and posting the recruiting site here is not necessary, IMO. Take out the comparison to a top 2012 player, just a suggestion if sending to college coaches and never compare your player to another, especially one not even close to where your son plays.
If you want a rating and ranking, get him to a PG showcase, then you won't need all of that other stuff.
Got to standup for TR and JH (definetly not an "old timer" except in posts) here, although you did not care for how they responded to your question, they are right and make good points, as does PG (especially about comparisons, read carefully his entire post) and Midlo (PG ratings and rankings can open doors). RRF8 also brings up a good point (see last paragraph)as does CPLZ.
Your topic and posting the recruiting site here is not necessary, IMO. Take out the comparison to a top 2012 player, just a suggestion if sending to college coaches and never compare your player to another, especially one not even close to where your son plays.
If you want a rating and ranking, get him to a PG showcase, then you won't need all of that other stuff.
Perhaps everyone take a step back here.
I get both sides on this one. The stats he is talking about mean something. The question is, to whom...
I looked at some of the hitting video. I think your son is a college player standup. His stats will not determine what level of college or which college however.
Coaches recruit what they see. When one of those coaches see something they like, they'll inquire about his stats and then it will mean something.
I get both sides on this one. The stats he is talking about mean something. The question is, to whom...
I looked at some of the hitting video. I think your son is a college player standup. His stats will not determine what level of college or which college however.
Coaches recruit what they see. When one of those coaches see something they like, they'll inquire about his stats and then it will mean something.
Lets try this again and forget about ranking comparisons and meaningless insults from the peanut gallery. What PG events would be recommended to a player starting the process beginning their junior year in High School?
quote:Originally posted by standup:
What PG events would be recommended to a player starting the process beginning their junior year in High School?
I think that Midlo answered that question, but I am not really sure that was what you were looking for, or you would have asked the above question in the first place.
Strange place this HSBBW, many are here to help and answer any quesion, may not always get the answer you would like, but for some of those, "old timers", they are able to read beyond the post as to it's true intentions.
Your son is in his junior year, he just attended WWBA, didn't he get any recruiting letters from his performance? Or any from those championship Legion tournies, etc?
standup - In a prior post in another thread you mentioned your son was going to the tournament in Jupiter. How did that go? I would think that event probably opened some doors for him.
Best of Luck.
Best of Luck.
Mr. Standup,
I also have a 2012. I would suggest going to an Underclass Showcase maybe in Florida after the Christmas break or any underclass events to start with. Other non PG events to consider is the AZ Fall Classics.
We did one during his sophomore year in AZ. Cannot do it this year due to prior commitments.
I have seen your son's video and I think there will be place for him some day. He is a big boy!
The 2012 PG list will also be coming out (State rankings) soon. The 2011 list is out.
I also understand the views of rest of the guys with regards to the start of the thread. Glad you veered away from that.
Good luck to your son! I will be happy just to have Jr be in the right fit one day!
RR23
I also have a 2012. I would suggest going to an Underclass Showcase maybe in Florida after the Christmas break or any underclass events to start with. Other non PG events to consider is the AZ Fall Classics.
We did one during his sophomore year in AZ. Cannot do it this year due to prior commitments.
I have seen your son's video and I think there will be place for him some day. He is a big boy!
The 2012 PG list will also be coming out (State rankings) soon. The 2011 list is out.
I also understand the views of rest of the guys with regards to the start of the thread. Glad you veered away from that.
Good luck to your son! I will be happy just to have Jr be in the right fit one day!
RR23
standup,
It isn't the average HS team or league you need to be comparing them to. Our HS conference is one of the best in SoCal year in and year out but not necessarily the best. BTW, it does look like he comes out of a pretty good HS league.
Would you like to compare the pitching in your son's conference to our HS conference here in SoCal? Let's see a couple years ago the #5 pitcher off the 3rd or 4th place team in the league was drafted and did quite well in his first year of pro ball. He pitched a total of 11 innings that year as a senior. The #1 pitcher for that team was drafted later in the draft but got a well above slot bonus. The #2 pitcher was quite successful at a D1 as a freshman. The #3 pitcher went in the second round the next year. The #4 pitcher went a bit earlier in the 2nd round this year. Several other pitchers in the league were drafted in those years and several more received D1 scholarships.
I believe a team that tied for last with a 2-12 record in league this season had 3 or 4 pitchers go D1 out of a total of 4 or 5 players who went D1 and one who went to a top D2. A team with a first rounder finished 5th. The first rounder had great stats as a freshman on varsity against very strong pitching but after his first showcase, where he didn't happen to perform that well, he wasn't ranked, although the notes were positive. He performed very well at subsequent showcases, continued to improve and was soon very highly ranked.
Several kids who got D1 scholarships hit well under .300. One kid who hit under .250 the previous year got a D1 scholarship at a major D1 and hit close to .300 as a freshman.
The kids who get drafted and who get the D1 scholarships don't always have the stats and the ones who have the stats don't always get drafted or get the scholarships.
It isn't the average HS team or league you need to be comparing them to. Our HS conference is one of the best in SoCal year in and year out but not necessarily the best. BTW, it does look like he comes out of a pretty good HS league.
Would you like to compare the pitching in your son's conference to our HS conference here in SoCal? Let's see a couple years ago the #5 pitcher off the 3rd or 4th place team in the league was drafted and did quite well in his first year of pro ball. He pitched a total of 11 innings that year as a senior. The #1 pitcher for that team was drafted later in the draft but got a well above slot bonus. The #2 pitcher was quite successful at a D1 as a freshman. The #3 pitcher went in the second round the next year. The #4 pitcher went a bit earlier in the 2nd round this year. Several other pitchers in the league were drafted in those years and several more received D1 scholarships.
I believe a team that tied for last with a 2-12 record in league this season had 3 or 4 pitchers go D1 out of a total of 4 or 5 players who went D1 and one who went to a top D2. A team with a first rounder finished 5th. The first rounder had great stats as a freshman on varsity against very strong pitching but after his first showcase, where he didn't happen to perform that well, he wasn't ranked, although the notes were positive. He performed very well at subsequent showcases, continued to improve and was soon very highly ranked.
Several kids who got D1 scholarships hit well under .300. One kid who hit under .250 the previous year got a D1 scholarship at a major D1 and hit close to .300 as a freshman.
The kids who get drafted and who get the D1 scholarships don't always have the stats and the ones who have the stats don't always get drafted or get the scholarships.
Not to be mean or contrary, but I looked up your son in the PG data base - open to the public. Looks like he topped out at 821mph at Jupiter. I'm really not sure how you can compare that to an AFLAC All-American. Those guys are typically over 90mph. Maybe his hitting is much better than his pitching, but a top velocity of 82 is pretty average. If you want to compare stats, how about some that can be compared without worrying about the competition. Fastball velocity, infield velocity, 60 time. How do those stack up?
I agree, get him in a PG showcase and see how he does and gets graded by people who see kids from all over the country, all year long.
I agree, get him in a PG showcase and see how he does and gets graded by people who see kids from all over the country, all year long.
Standup,
If he played for a PG team in Jupiter, then there would be some notes on him. Not sure if you were with Midlo Dad's team or is it some one else I am thinking? It may have been Coach Merc ?
If he played for a PG team in Jupiter, then there would be some notes on him. Not sure if you were with Midlo Dad's team or is it some one else I am thinking? It may have been Coach Merc ?
Just sitting here hopin and prayin my son isnt interested in the same college as his son.....lol
Eric,
Don't throw the kid under the bus, it's the dad who is it a know all.
Don't throw the kid under the bus, it's the dad who is it a know all.
I meant know it all. "It a know all" is the term I use after cocktails on the weekend.
Oh I know but he will lurk at every practice and game....lol
Hope he doesnt find my sons stats, as a Soph on Varsity hit a whopping .170 or so, yet he is still being touted and contacted by some D1 boys, go figure. LOL
bballman,
He's not a primary pitcher so the fastball velocity shouldn't be an issue.
He's not a primary pitcher so the fastball velocity shouldn't be an issue.
Ok. Just something I noticed. Hopefully the rest of his game will be noticed and appreciated.
standup,
Your son looks like a very good hitter. If you're concerned about PG rankings, I'd try and get him in a PG showcase/tournament event so that he can be evaluated? I would also like to know why you'd want to compare numbers with the "2012 number one ranked hitter"? My kid played with him in Georgia this past summer, and he's the real deal, amazing bat speed and very strong. In our only game at the East Cobb Complex, this young man hit 3 bombs in his first 3 AB's (2 were 400' plus) with wood!
Best of luck to your son.
Your son looks like a very good hitter. If you're concerned about PG rankings, I'd try and get him in a PG showcase/tournament event so that he can be evaluated? I would also like to know why you'd want to compare numbers with the "2012 number one ranked hitter"? My kid played with him in Georgia this past summer, and he's the real deal, amazing bat speed and very strong. In our only game at the East Cobb Complex, this young man hit 3 bombs in his first 3 AB's (2 were 400' plus) with wood!
Best of luck to your son.
Had a great time in Jupiter. Pitched two innings at some coaches request and gave up no hits runs or walks in two innings. Was grateful for the handful of plate appearances as it is difficult for great coach with 20 players that were almost all seniors to showcase them all, struckout once, walked once and bounced one over the fence. Had a good game against the Dirtbags who are awsome.He is pretty level when he does great or not and was contacted by two Division 1 coaches that saw him play in Jupiter through his berecruited website. Next time i think of posting here I think I'll stick a fork in my eye instead. Thanks to PG Staff Midlo Dad & ClevelandDad.
Okay...just realized that your son played recently in Jupiter, I hope he did well. If so, I'm sure the staff at Perfect Game have him on the radar now.
Dude, you have issues.
Standup- this thread hasn't turned out too well. You've received some good advise and yes, you've received some sarcasm/critism. Unfortunately, it comes with the territory on not just this HSBB forum but all forums. I wish you and your son all the best and I would encourage you to do the PG showcases. If your son has the tools he'll get noticed. Here is some additional advice for you from a father (and ex-coach of his son) to a father of a ball player - keep your distance from the coaches, scouts, PG, etc...and please don't post anymore with his name in it. Keep your mouth shut at the showcases, games, etc...sometimes good kids don't get recruited because of their fathers or mothers. Google your son's name and see what comes up. Scouts and coaches will see all of that and it will be a real negative...These scouts and old timers and especially PG know what they are doing.
quote:Originally posted by standup:
Had a great time in Jupiter. Pitched two innings at some coaches request and gave up no hits runs or walks in two innings. Was grateful for the handful of plate appearances as it is difficult for great coach with 20 players that were almost all seniors to showcase them all, struckout once, walked once and bounced one over the fence. Had a good game against the Dirtbags who are awsome.He is pretty level when he does great or not and was contacted by two Division 1 coaches that saw him play in Jupiter through his berecruited website. Next time i think of posting here I think I'll stick a fork in my eye instead. Thanks to PG Staff Midlo Dad & ClevelandDad.
You should reconsider, I'm sure that you just want to help your son get to the next level, and there's certainly no harm in that. Your biggest mistake IMO was comparing your son to another player that you probably had never seen!? Again...Best of Luck!
johnj314
Your advice on not talking to coaches is well heeded as both my dad and uncle were high school coaches. I don't go to practices and never talked to one of my daughters D1 College coaches at UC Irvine or before that at UCSD where she was NCAA All-american and National NCAA Rookie of the Year. In fact I think I may have spoken to them once at a dinner and said hello.
Your advice on not talking to coaches is well heeded as both my dad and uncle were high school coaches. I don't go to practices and never talked to one of my daughters D1 College coaches at UC Irvine or before that at UCSD where she was NCAA All-american and National NCAA Rookie of the Year. In fact I think I may have spoken to them once at a dinner and said hello.
That Trey Williams kid does look like a stud. BTW, I checked and their HS leagues were roughly comparable based on the MaxPreps rankings. A bit hard to tell how good the competition was overall relatively speaking given that Valencia had a lot more league games and played some fairly tough teams outside of league. 88 mph from 3b will make people notice right away regardless of the hitting. Williams is also fairly young relatively speaking.
My guess is that if standup's kid continues to produce he's got a decent shot at being ranked eventually. It is harder now to get a numerical ranking than it was a few years ago. The dad's approach could turn off some coaches but I doubt it will have any impact one way or the other on his eventual PG ranking.
standup,
Why wasn't your son on the maxpreps roster for his HS?
My guess is that if standup's kid continues to produce he's got a decent shot at being ranked eventually. It is harder now to get a numerical ranking than it was a few years ago. The dad's approach could turn off some coaches but I doubt it will have any impact one way or the other on his eventual PG ranking.
standup,
Why wasn't your son on the maxpreps roster for his HS?
quote:Originally posted by standup:
Next time i think of posting here I think I'll stick a fork in my eye instead.
Or you could try civility and see how that works out for you. Let's not revise history here, you were the one that started throwing jabs, just because you didn't like what you heard, in spite of its validity.
i.e.
quote:Originally posted by standup:
Thanks TRHit & JH for not answering my polite question and your spurious replies. Hope u enjoy your cyber lovefest!
quote:Originally posted by standup:
Lets try this again and forget about ranking comparisons and meaningless insults from the peanut gallery.
standup,
Your son played JV in 2010 and you are comparing him to a kid who played varsity in 2010 on a top team in a comparable league?
Don't you realize people can do research online? I've seen kids who were absolute studs play JV as sophmores in our league so your son playing JV as a sophmore doesn't mean much one way or the other to me but how can you compare your son's stats to a younger kid who was playing varsity and not say so?
Your son played JV in 2010 and you are comparing him to a kid who played varsity in 2010 on a top team in a comparable league?
Don't you realize people can do research online? I've seen kids who were absolute studs play JV as sophmores in our league so your son playing JV as a sophmore doesn't mean much one way or the other to me but how can you compare your son's stats to a younger kid who was playing varsity and not say so?
From looking at the website for your son's high school team, it looks like he was a sophomore on the JV team for high school last spring (which is not at all unusual for a talented sophomore at a large HS, I went to Putnam City North HS which is just down the road, so I am familiar with your son's high school and I realize it is a large school).
The point I am trying to make is that if you are comparing JV pitching with Varsity pitching then that will impact the stats for the hitters.
Edit: looks like CAdad and I were posting at the same time, sorry for the duplicate comment.
The point I am trying to make is that if you are comparing JV pitching with Varsity pitching then that will impact the stats for the hitters.
Edit: looks like CAdad and I were posting at the same time, sorry for the duplicate comment.
According to TR one never has to say sorry.
How **** are we to check on that?
How **** are we to check on that?
CAdad - I also say "it is my understanding", "I think" and "I heard" but I am not apologizing for any of them. 
I am not apologizing for apologizing either....
I am not apologizing for apologizing either....
FWIW....
JH is not a judgemental old dog but a very smart and intelligent college pitcher.
PGStaff is owner and founder of PG. You probably got his attention, but not sure pointing out to him that the players in OK are better than in CA makes sense.
CPLZ was correct, you did throw out the first punch.
Your son's page got a lot of "hits" today I am sure, but probably not from the right people you intended to see. Especially your son playing on JV while the other player (younger ) played on varsity.
I would follow the advice and remove the comparisons, it'snot going to help the cause.
Just a suggestion.
Best of luck.
Cheapseats that was funny.
JH is not a judgemental old dog but a very smart and intelligent college pitcher.
PGStaff is owner and founder of PG. You probably got his attention, but not sure pointing out to him that the players in OK are better than in CA makes sense.
CPLZ was correct, you did throw out the first punch.
Your son's page got a lot of "hits" today I am sure, but probably not from the right people you intended to see. Especially your son playing on JV while the other player (younger ) played on varsity.
I would follow the advice and remove the comparisons, it'snot going to help the cause.
Just a suggestion.
Best of luck.
Cheapseats that was funny.
No way you can compare JV stats to varsity stats. Completely different. I think this is what everyone was talking about when they said stats are meaningless because of the context. Maybe this kid is really good and should be ranked higher than the #1 kid in the country, but it certainly won't be based on JV stats.
Cheapseats
The 79 AB's and 96 plate Appearances in the video are 100% E.M.H.S. Varsity/Senior Legion including 55 Senior 19U Legion Tournament AB's. You will see in the video the actual game by game results,20 current college pitchers, a dozen All-State pitchers and about 100 current college players including Marlins JT Realmuto. Only 6 of the games had ordinary high school pitchers At his scool they had 19 seniors and all seniors are on varsity.Wes had another 60 hits on video this year including JV and Junior college games like Seminole State & others
The 79 AB's and 96 plate Appearances in the video are 100% E.M.H.S. Varsity/Senior Legion including 55 Senior 19U Legion Tournament AB's. You will see in the video the actual game by game results,20 current college pitchers, a dozen All-State pitchers and about 100 current college players including Marlins JT Realmuto. Only 6 of the games had ordinary high school pitchers At his scool they had 19 seniors and all seniors are on varsity.Wes had another 60 hits on video this year including JV and Junior college games like Seminole State & others
quote:Originally posted by standup:
Cheapseats
The 79 AB's and 96 plate Appearances in the video are 100% E.M.H.S. Varsity/Senior Legion including 55 Senior 19U Legion Tournament AB's. You will see in the video the actual game by game results,20 current college pitchers, a dozen All-State pitchers and about 100 current college players including Marlins JT Realmuto. Only 6 of the games had ordinary high school pitchers At his scool they had 19 seniors and all seniors are on varsity.Wes had another 60 hits on video this year including JV and Junior college games like Seminole State & others
Okay, thanks for clarifying....I am a CPA but my certificate is a little dusty, help me with the math...
79 AB in Video Analysis (-) Minus 55 Legion AB = 24 Varsity AB ----------> is that correct?
not sure if 24 Varsity AB is enough to do a comparison to the Varsity AB of the CA player you have mentioned.
your son still has a lot of time to be recruited - sounds like you know what kinds of events he needs to attend - with all you have presented I would guess that he will do well and be recruited, heck, you mentioned he has already been contacted by some D1's following the Jupiter WWBA event, sounds like he is doing well, plus he still has lots of time if he is currently a junior. Best of luck for a strong injury free junior/senior year.
Never compare your son to another player publicly. All of us have had people come up to us and say "He's not that good." "My son is just as good as he is." "My son has a higher batting average than he does." The list goes on and on. I have heard people make comments many times about other players. Especially the players with the reps as being very good players. You never make yourself look better by trying to make others look bad. And you simply just dont compare your kid to other kids. And you never do it on the HSBBW. Why? Because everyone of us have been there. Our kids have been those kids others have made those comments about. And we have been there done that , been there seen that.
Its real simple. Get out there and get in the mix and let those that do this stuff for a living tell you what they think. Get out there on the big stage and throw yourself in the fire and see how you stack up. Let his play do the talking. Let him do his talking with his bat and glove. Trying to make a case by comparing your son to another top tier player and using stats etc is lame at best.
Your using JV stats to compare your son to a kid that those that know, those that get paid to do this, those who's reputation is everything in what they do is pathetic at best. Even if your son was better and you knew it I would never say it. I would never put it out there on a message board. Get out on the field and prove what you can do and do it against the best competition you can find. And let OTHER people bang his drum. Never do it yourself. And never compare your son to another player like that. No matter how good that player is or is not. It just doesnt sit well with baseball folks. Of course that just my opinion. Your free to do what you want. But your not free to choose how others will react to it.
Its real simple. Get out there and get in the mix and let those that do this stuff for a living tell you what they think. Get out there on the big stage and throw yourself in the fire and see how you stack up. Let his play do the talking. Let him do his talking with his bat and glove. Trying to make a case by comparing your son to another top tier player and using stats etc is lame at best.
Your using JV stats to compare your son to a kid that those that know, those that get paid to do this, those who's reputation is everything in what they do is pathetic at best. Even if your son was better and you knew it I would never say it. I would never put it out there on a message board. Get out on the field and prove what you can do and do it against the best competition you can find. And let OTHER people bang his drum. Never do it yourself. And never compare your son to another player like that. No matter how good that player is or is not. It just doesnt sit well with baseball folks. Of course that just my opinion. Your free to do what you want. But your not free to choose how others will react to it.
bballman & Coach May
I am amazed by some of the misperceptions here.
There are zero JV stats involved here. In fact 54 of the AB's are from Decker Omaha Legion Majors,Oklahoma Outlaws Legion Majors and Oklahoma Varsity Legion State Tournament. They include multiple hits games the NJ State Champion Brooklawn Post 72, USABF National World Series Champions Oklahoma Travelers, Legion National World Series Champion Outlaws and Oklahoma State Champions along with another dozen teams that are predominantly 19U graduated seniors including Enid Majors, Spivey Stars and Edmond Stars.zero JV stats involved here
I am amazed by some of the misperceptions here.
There are zero JV stats involved here. In fact 54 of the AB's are from Decker Omaha Legion Majors,Oklahoma Outlaws Legion Majors and Oklahoma Varsity Legion State Tournament. They include multiple hits games the NJ State Champion Brooklawn Post 72, USABF National World Series Champions Oklahoma Travelers, Legion National World Series Champion Outlaws and Oklahoma State Champions along with another dozen teams that are predominantly 19U graduated seniors including Enid Majors, Spivey Stars and Edmond Stars.zero JV stats involved here
I really should not have mentioned the JV stuff because that really has nothing to do with it. At least not as far as my post goes. You have more knowledge of what your son has done right there than I have ever had on my own kid. It seems you are really into stats. The people that will make the decisions on your son are not concerned with stats. They are looking at things the untrained eye does not see.
Swing plane , bat speed , bat path , the hands , the swing process , how his tools will play at the next level and much more. If he has what they like you will know it. And his stats , who he got his hits against etc will have nothing to do with it. You will know by the contacts they you get.
Your son may be an absolute stud. I hope he is. Good luck
Swing plane , bat speed , bat path , the hands , the swing process , how his tools will play at the next level and much more. If he has what they like you will know it. And his stats , who he got his hits against etc will have nothing to do with it. You will know by the contacts they you get.
Your son may be an absolute stud. I hope he is. Good luck
Forgot.
Coach May coaches (not sure if he did this year) for the Dirtbags.
Listen to the advice and take it from people who know, people who are in the business people who know lots more than you, me or many here.
At any of these tournaments, weren't there any college coaches or scouts?
Coach May coaches (not sure if he did this year) for the Dirtbags.
Listen to the advice and take it from people who know, people who are in the business people who know lots more than you, me or many here.
At any of these tournaments, weren't there any college coaches or scouts?
Anyone want to do a side by side comparison of the swings..........just kidding. I can't believe what I am reading here.
When reading this thread I can't help but think about the dad that had detailed stats from little league through college that he published while analyzing the University of Houston coach/program - (I think his name was Vic) - To make a long story short (literally it was a long story ) the stats drove him crazy because based on the stats he did not think his son received a fair shake. He got the last word but in the end I don't know how it worked out for him. Don't worry about the stats and how they compare to other players - enjoy the high school years, as you know with your daughter, it will be over before you know it.
) the stats drove him crazy because based on the stats he did not think his son received a fair shake. He got the last word but in the end I don't know how it worked out for him. Don't worry about the stats and how they compare to other players - enjoy the high school years, as you know with your daughter, it will be over before you know it.
Standup. My bad, I took the word of someone else that your son played JV. However, I have never heard of any of those other teams you mentioned. Maybe others have. My son has been involved in the travel/tournament scene for 5 years now - he is also a Junior and I have yet to come across any of those teams in any USSSA, Triple Crown, PG, WWBA or any other tournament. Not saying they are not good, just not familiar. I am also not sure about the Legion stuff. I understand Legion ball is big in some parts of the country, but not where I am from.
The problem comes down to comparing apples to oranges. I really think the only way to truly compare is to get him in a PG showcase and let him get graded. That will stack up his skill set against other kids of all talent levels across the country. Not just the Midwest or just the southeast or just California.
If your son has top level talent, he will make it to the next level. Just keep him in front of those who make the decisions. Individual Showcases, showcase tournaments (Jupiter was a good decision), college camps, anything that you would expect coaches and scouts to be at. He doesn't have to be better than the best kid in the country. Just good enough that a next level team will think he can contribute to their program.
I really do wish you the best of luck.
The problem comes down to comparing apples to oranges. I really think the only way to truly compare is to get him in a PG showcase and let him get graded. That will stack up his skill set against other kids of all talent levels across the country. Not just the Midwest or just the southeast or just California.
If your son has top level talent, he will make it to the next level. Just keep him in front of those who make the decisions. Individual Showcases, showcase tournaments (Jupiter was a good decision), college camps, anything that you would expect coaches and scouts to be at. He doesn't have to be better than the best kid in the country. Just good enough that a next level team will think he can contribute to their program.
I really do wish you the best of luck.
standup
I have had very heated conversations with posters here over opinions of what material the game should be played with and how those rules should be set and who should set them.
That being said, some of the posters I've disagreed with the most on those subjects have also been the ones who helped me the most with their knowledge of how this whole process works for our sons. The knowledge of these posters is invaluable and they will help you with the questions you have.
You will NOT find a better site to gather the info you are looking for and you will not find a site with more knowledgeable "been there, done that" posters. Tap into their experience. The people posting here are more than willing to help you crack the code.
Looks like your son is one heck of a ball player.
I have had very heated conversations with posters here over opinions of what material the game should be played with and how those rules should be set and who should set them.
That being said, some of the posters I've disagreed with the most on those subjects have also been the ones who helped me the most with their knowledge of how this whole process works for our sons. The knowledge of these posters is invaluable and they will help you with the questions you have.
You will NOT find a better site to gather the info you are looking for and you will not find a site with more knowledgeable "been there, done that" posters. Tap into their experience. The people posting here are more than willing to help you crack the code.
Looks like your son is one heck of a ball player.
I finally got to see the vids, I must say he has good hand-eye coordination.
There are some truly wonderful people here.I'm sorry but some people needs to get a litlle closer to reality insteade of making up their own. Can u see how ignorant, wrong assuming & unobservant some people can be. Can they really not differentiate between 19U D1 pitchers and JV baseball? The 79 AB's & 98 PA's are all for one EMHS Varsity High School Team that played an awsome schedule including many of the country's top 19U Legion teams. The pitchers on the video include Legion World Series Champion Pitchers Clark Roberts Cowley County CC & Legion WS Strikeout Record Holder Kevin Hill, USABF World Series Champions Travis Carraway Murray State, Dayne Parker Wichita State, Daniel Edwards OSU, Kellen Smith Labette CC, Nick Fowble NEOSHO, JT Realmuto MLB and I could go on. These 19U Pitchers are far better or more developed than the average HS pitchers in any league. Is it that people dont even watch the video and comment on it or are they truly clueless when watching a D1 pitcher thinking its JV baseball?
quote:Originally posted by standup:
Here is a comparison of a Perfect Game Top Ranked 2012 Hitter and a non ranked player(my son)of the same year. Both Players high school teams played 28 Games and the non ranked player's team played against USABF,Legion Regional & National Champion teams including National Tournaments.The non ranked player has more hits, more walks and less strikeouts per AB in real world games.The top ranked hitter has more homeruns and is excellent.What are recommendations for non ranked players becoming ranked?
http://video.berecruited.com/videos/athletes/658295
Standup - we got off track because your first post (shown above) refers to the 28 game high school schedule for your son and the 28 game schedule for the PG top ranked player you are comparing him to. Then, through the course of discussion we learn that only a portion of the HS games your son played in are Varsity and most are from summer legion ball. We now understand you don't have JV stats in your analysis video but your initial post implied it was apples to apples 28 varsity games. Do you see why we are confused?
To be a valid analysis, you would need the summer stats for the player you are comparing your son to. However, like Coach May said earlier, comparisons to other players are not a good idea, there is no upside in making the comparison.
If your original goal in starting this thread was to have your son noticed by the leading organization for ranking 2012 hitters, I think you have accomplished that goal.
quote:Originally posted by standup:
Can u see how ignorant, wrong assuming & unobservant some people can be.
Ok you win, we are stupid and ignorant and unobservant.
BTW, pardon my ignorance, what was the original purpose of this topic?
Standup doesn't truly want any advise. He already has all of the answers he needs.
I do, however, thank him for presenting this topic. There is a lot of valuable information about what matters by those that responded.
I do, however, thank him for presenting this topic. There is a lot of valuable information about what matters by those that responded.
I can see why you are confused.What confused you was that their high school website is only updated once a year. 100% of the continuous 28 games on the video is for the same single Varsity High shcool team from beginning to end that was 2010 State Legion runnerup and also won the State Wood Bat AABC Prairie League Championship. It is a comparison of all varsity games played by each player in 2010. It is representative of roughly 98 plate appearances for one player and 113 for the other. The only thing thats not apples to apples is the mix of higher level pitching against current college pitchers seen nationally compared with all high school age pitchers in regular league games.It's not terribly important but I sure do see how dramatically less hitting the nationally ranked senior player on my son's team did againt this pitching compared to Spring. By the way, I kind of felt like I was doing good when folks started accusing me of lurking and being called "dirtball"
Billy Martin would be proud.
Billy Martin would be proud.
okay, I think I will bow out of this discussion now because I am still confused....you are using the term "Varsity High School team" but you are talking about what the high school team did in the SUMMER LEAGUE season which is what I would call "summer ball". Actually, even within summer ball there is a big difference between league play and competitive tournament play.
At this school they require all Varsity baseball players to play on the School team they call Varsity/AAA. It is a much more competitive schedule than Spring baseball and it puts them in the position of playing travel ball teams to make them better. The HS coach does a great job.
Standup,
I went to the video. Your son looks like he can swing it. However, his stats mean nothing because there's no baseline for any of us to measure him with. He could be facing outrageous pitching and tearing it up. He could be facing garbage and tearing that up too. I understand you feel he's seeing high level guys. It's a big world out there. I've been through it twice.
Here's my suggestion: get him to one of the Perfect Game showcases - like the World Showcase in January. Put him out there against some of the best players in the nation and see what he does. That's how you will get your son ranked, since it's the clear objective you have.
I was unsure of where my younger guy stood until I took him to PG World and then to PG National. You might have all your questions answered, as I did after seeing him against the best in the country. It's eye-opening to say the least.
I have to add one thing - comparing your son's stats to any other young man, for whatever reason, is pretty well out of line. Perhaps a better way is just to post the very stats you are so proud of and invite people to take a look at the site you've set up.
MM
I went to the video. Your son looks like he can swing it. However, his stats mean nothing because there's no baseline for any of us to measure him with. He could be facing outrageous pitching and tearing it up. He could be facing garbage and tearing that up too. I understand you feel he's seeing high level guys. It's a big world out there. I've been through it twice.
Here's my suggestion: get him to one of the Perfect Game showcases - like the World Showcase in January. Put him out there against some of the best players in the nation and see what he does. That's how you will get your son ranked, since it's the clear objective you have.
I was unsure of where my younger guy stood until I took him to PG World and then to PG National. You might have all your questions answered, as I did after seeing him against the best in the country. It's eye-opening to say the least.
I have to add one thing - comparing your son's stats to any other young man, for whatever reason, is pretty well out of line. Perhaps a better way is just to post the very stats you are so proud of and invite people to take a look at the site you've set up.
MM
Standup,
Unfortunately, the closer I look at what you say, the less persuaded I get.
Like a lot of people at this site, I'm mostly familiar with the PG WWBA events and the teams that consistently show well at them. However, I know it's a big country, so I have an open mind about people and programs and events I haven't heard of. Unfortunately, when I try to verify the information you offer, your compelling narrative starts coming apart.
For example, I looked up one of the players you said your son hit against. I couldn't find him on the roster of the school you said, but I did find him listed at PG--as a MIF committed to a Juco. So I checked the JUCO's fall roster and he's not there. Thus, what you presented as experience against a D1 pitcher turns out to be experience against a MIF who may or may not be on a college roster.
So I checked another guy on your list. Eureka! He's on the roster of the school you mentioned. But, whoops, he's an infielder, not a pitcher.
So I checked another guy. Same story. He's on the JUCO roster you say, but not primarily as a pitcher and not included in the school's press release about incoming players likely to make an impact.
So I checked another guy: he's not on the roster where you say he is and I couldn't find him at PG.
So basically your list of accomplished pitchers evaporated on contact.
If you want to persuade casual non-expert observers like me, hold the stats until you can show a PG rating or another credible independent evaluation.
Unfortunately, the closer I look at what you say, the less persuaded I get.
Like a lot of people at this site, I'm mostly familiar with the PG WWBA events and the teams that consistently show well at them. However, I know it's a big country, so I have an open mind about people and programs and events I haven't heard of. Unfortunately, when I try to verify the information you offer, your compelling narrative starts coming apart.
For example, I looked up one of the players you said your son hit against. I couldn't find him on the roster of the school you said, but I did find him listed at PG--as a MIF committed to a Juco. So I checked the JUCO's fall roster and he's not there. Thus, what you presented as experience against a D1 pitcher turns out to be experience against a MIF who may or may not be on a college roster.
So I checked another guy on your list. Eureka! He's on the roster of the school you mentioned. But, whoops, he's an infielder, not a pitcher.
So I checked another guy. Same story. He's on the JUCO roster you say, but not primarily as a pitcher and not included in the school's press release about incoming players likely to make an impact.
So I checked another guy: he's not on the roster where you say he is and I couldn't find him at PG.
So basically your list of accomplished pitchers evaporated on contact.
If you want to persuade casual non-expert observers like me, hold the stats until you can show a PG rating or another credible independent evaluation.
standup,
I knew exactly what you had posted when I said your son had played JV as a sophmore. He played JV as a sophmore. Like most kids he then went on to play up with the varsity as a rising junior. What you've posted implies that he played varsity as a sophmore. Williams posted his stats as a younger sophmore playing varsity.
What do you hope to gain from this charade?
I knew exactly what you had posted when I said your son had played JV as a sophmore. He played JV as a sophmore. Like most kids he then went on to play up with the varsity as a rising junior. What you've posted implies that he played varsity as a sophmore. Williams posted his stats as a younger sophmore playing varsity.
What do you hope to gain from this charade?
Swamp Boy. Here I'll help you out.
see Caraway, Parker & Edwards Pitching in USABF WS
http://www.elkcitytravelers.co...ult.asp?xFILE=Recaps
Caraway Murray State
http://www.mscok.edu/athletics/babroster11.html
Daniel Edwards OSU
http://www.njcaa.org/colleges_...4&requesttimeout=500
http://www.elkcitytravelers.co...sp?xFILE=College_Pro
Dayne Parker WSU
http://www.goshockers.com/Spor..._ID=7500&SPSID=61171
Clayton Blackburn OU
http://blog.newsok.com/highsch...commits-to-oklahoma/
See Legion WS Champion Outlaws Pitchers Roberts Realmuto & Head
http://post170.com/History/201...id/2797/Default.aspx
Clark Roberts Ccowley County
http://www.cowleytigers.com/baseball/baseroster.html
See Kellen Smith Labette CC
http://www.labette.edu/dept/at.../baseball/roster.htm
See Nick Fowble NEOSHO
http://www.neosho.edu/Athletic...ball/TeamRoster.aspx
see Caraway, Parker & Edwards Pitching in USABF WS
http://www.elkcitytravelers.co...ult.asp?xFILE=Recaps
Caraway Murray State
http://www.mscok.edu/athletics/babroster11.html
Daniel Edwards OSU
http://www.njcaa.org/colleges_...4&requesttimeout=500
http://www.elkcitytravelers.co...sp?xFILE=College_Pro
Dayne Parker WSU
http://www.goshockers.com/Spor..._ID=7500&SPSID=61171
Clayton Blackburn OU
http://blog.newsok.com/highsch...commits-to-oklahoma/
See Legion WS Champion Outlaws Pitchers Roberts Realmuto & Head
http://post170.com/History/201...id/2797/Default.aspx
Clark Roberts Ccowley County
http://www.cowleytigers.com/baseball/baseroster.html
See Kellen Smith Labette CC
http://www.labette.edu/dept/at.../baseball/roster.htm
See Nick Fowble NEOSHO
http://www.neosho.edu/Athletic...ball/TeamRoster.aspx
CADad
Are you OK? Why do u comment on what u have not read or seen?
"Would you like to compare the pitching in your son's conference to our HS conference here in SoCal?"
We are comparing 100 Varsity Plate appearances against elite pitchers that have already pitched in college
and or represent all-star teams of Legion Majors 19U that are college committed pitchers to anothers players AB's against ordinary HS varsity pitchers.It would be as if your HS team played the Southern California Aangels or San Diego Show. I said at the onset he's wonderful. Charade? Are you kidding me?
"What do you hope to gain from this charade"
Again you read the post from Swampboy whose brain is the only thing that evaporated. He couldn't find his from page 8 so I have to assist another pundit into the light by providing links to college rosters.Every pitcher I mentioned is as represented. Have you ever heard of the USABF?
Are you OK? Why do u comment on what u have not read or seen?
"Would you like to compare the pitching in your son's conference to our HS conference here in SoCal?"
We are comparing 100 Varsity Plate appearances against elite pitchers that have already pitched in college
and or represent all-star teams of Legion Majors 19U that are college committed pitchers to anothers players AB's against ordinary HS varsity pitchers.It would be as if your HS team played the Southern California Aangels or San Diego Show. I said at the onset he's wonderful. Charade? Are you kidding me?
"What do you hope to gain from this charade"
Again you read the post from Swampboy whose brain is the only thing that evaporated. He couldn't find his from page 8 so I have to assist another pundit into the light by providing links to college rosters.Every pitcher I mentioned is as represented. Have you ever heard of the USABF?
Your son has exactly 0 varsity plate appearances to date. He like many others may have played against some top competition in the summer.
I'm sorry but you have nothing out there that compares with the Marmonte League.
I'm sorry but you have nothing out there that compares with the Marmonte League.
I also believe the comparison info should be removed from your recruiting materials. Many coaches will see your data as currently presented and conclude that someday they might recieve an e-mail from you complaining that your son deserves to play more along with an analysis of the players he should be ahead of. The coaches may never look at the other videos of your son playing.
Honestly speaking none of the schools that recruited my son ever asked for his stats and we never offered them. I think you are waging an unecesary battle defending and promoting your son's stats.
Let his play speak for itself.
Good luck.
Honestly speaking none of the schools that recruited my son ever asked for his stats and we never offered them. I think you are waging an unecesary battle defending and promoting your son's stats.
Let his play speak for itself.
Good luck.
You can post all the stats you want to post. I do find it simply amazing you know the names and schools attended by the pitchers your son has faced in summer baseball. It just shows I believe that you are extremely hung up on stats. I once coached a kid in summer baseball who's dad carried a stop watch, radar gun and clip board with him to every game. He would record his sons pop times, every one of them. He would record the pitchers velo when his son was hitting. He had an entire book of stats on his son. None of it mattered one bit as far as recruiting.
Your son may indeed by a stud. Again, I hope he is. But the stats or the pitchers he has hit off of etc is not going to matter. The data YOU as the parent have on him in regards to stats etc will not matter to college coaches or professional scouts. What they see with their eyes is what is going to matter. So simply get him in front of the decision makers and you will have all the answers you need. He just played at Jupiter so that should get you some contacts if he showed what he needs to show. Continue to get him in front of the people that matter and everything will clear up in due time.
When a parent beats the drum of their own child it carries no weight to those that matter. When someone else does that who has credibility in the decision makers eyes it carries weight. When the decision makers start beating his drum you will know it and so will he. Good luck
Your son may indeed by a stud. Again, I hope he is. But the stats or the pitchers he has hit off of etc is not going to matter. The data YOU as the parent have on him in regards to stats etc will not matter to college coaches or professional scouts. What they see with their eyes is what is going to matter. So simply get him in front of the decision makers and you will have all the answers you need. He just played at Jupiter so that should get you some contacts if he showed what he needs to show. Continue to get him in front of the people that matter and everything will clear up in due time.
When a parent beats the drum of their own child it carries no weight to those that matter. When someone else does that who has credibility in the decision makers eyes it carries weight. When the decision makers start beating his drum you will know it and so will he. Good luck
Standup,
Here's what I'm not going to do. I'm not going to drag the names of these innocent bystanders into this discussion by publicly dissecting your list.
The readers of this site will judge for themselves whether my observations are fair.
Here's what I'm not going to do. I'm not going to drag the names of these innocent bystanders into this discussion by publicly dissecting your list.
The readers of this site will judge for themselves whether my observations are fair.
quote:Originally posted by standup:
Appreciate you sharing your knowledge PG Staff. Next time I send a pm it would be nice to avoid
"I don't understand why you chose this particular kid to compare with"
Chosen only because of top ranking. Could have been a comparison of 4 local area code players from one HS team who combined don't have as many varsity extra-base hits as sourced by Max preps this year. However they are good pitchers and though my son's team beat them twice this year with his 8 RBI's in two games helping out, i think they are wonderful players.
"It's one thing to play against top competition a few times and playing against it most all the time.""Can't compare to Southern California when it comes to competition."He is from Southern California and plays for a team that competes against the very best regularly." "There's probably a kid somewhere in a small town in Iowa that has much better stats than both them boys." "Definitely a good baseball state, but can't compare to Southern California when it comes to competition."
In concept all of this is true. But in this specific case there is little doubt that the pitching at Decker Omaha and Senior Legion 19U and Oklahoma State Championships is far more competitive than average California HS pitching. I lived there for 25 years. A more realistic comparison would be the other players performance for the San Digo show which are not published.
"Definitely a good baseball state, but can't compare to Southern California when it comes to competition."
2010 USABF World Series Champion Oklahoma Travelers outscored California teams 87-27 in 10 games during that tournament.
2010 Legion World Series Champions Oklahoma Outlaws outscored all teams 102-37 in 12 games during that tournament. Combined National Championship Tournament record is 21-2 with 132 K's. Wherever your from, if you hit well against these teams you are a hitter.
As For CPLZ please get out your glasses and re-read the post before you tyrade calling people dirtball because you have difficulty with context. I was referring specifically to TRhit & JH who label themselves as "old timers".If you are going to make wrong assumptions and mis-quotes about people you really ought to tell your wife. Maybe she cares. Just remember every one in the baseball world has gotten along fine without you as it shall continue.
standup,
Interestingly enough, I didn't notice this post originally, I guess I skimmed through the thread too quickly. It's true, The Oklahoma Travelers have a very good program. They came out to San Diego for the USABF World Series and won the tournament. I know, because my kid threw 5 innings against the Travelers in a 5-1 loss. He gave up four runs, and 5 hits in his appearance, and struckout eight. I remember the game well because there were two players on the Travelers that owned my son in that game. One of the players (I believe Texas A&M commit) hit two solo HR's off bsbl jr. What you fail to realize is that the SD SHOW was playing with nine players in that game. We had several kids that were playing out of position all over the field. Also, there was another 18u Wood Bat Tournament going on in Southern California that week, , and we had a team entered in that tournament as well. So basically we were playing as a Split Squad. As far as outscoring the California teams by such a wide margin? Consider that ABD, SGV Arsenal, Nor Cal, and several other high profile Calif teams were not in the USABF Series. We played in it because it was in our backyard, but we were a depleted roster. Take nothing away from the Travelers, they're good, but if we had our full contingency of players and the other Calif teams were entered, things would have been much different, JMO. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I had read that your boy was part of the Travelers program? Maybe I misunderstood? I have to agree with you, Oklahoma has outstanding baseball and some very good players...however, not quite as deep as the talent pool here in California!
Wow, you guys still at it...This could be an All Nighter...When PG 2012 State rankings comes out, it will be interesting.
2011 PG State Rankings are out..
bsbl247..Good Luck to Junior on the 10th!
2011 PG State Rankings are out..
bsbl247..Good Luck to Junior on the 10th!
Ryanrod,
I'm done, I originally missed his post regarding the California teams...and since my kid was involved I chimed in. I usually prefer to stay out of these disagreements, I'd much rather debate in person...my fingers can't handle all this typing!
I'm done, I originally missed his post regarding the California teams...and since my kid was involved I chimed in. I usually prefer to stay out of these disagreements, I'd much rather debate in person...my fingers can't handle all this typing!
quote:Originally posted by Ryanrod23:
Wow, you guys still at it...This could be an All Nighter...When PG 2012 State rankings comes out, it will be interesting.
2011 PG State Rankings are out..
bsbl247..Good Luck to Junior on the 10th!
Thank you.
Thanks to everyone for your contributions. I'm leaving the cyber baseball world and appreciate the awsome people on this board.If you have any questions you can re-read my posts. The thing I love most about baseball is the people involved. I truly hope you all have peace and happiness. God bless you and keep you safe.
standup,
Sorry if you think I was slighting baseball in your area. We had two Oklahoma HS pitchers on the Aflac team this year and they are both ranked very high in the 2011 class. We know of a few more current Oklahoma HS pitchers who are outstanding. All of those pitchers played on summer club teams rather than, or in addition to, legion or HS ball. Doesn't necessarily make them better, just much more visible.
I will go out on a limb and say the pitchers I'm talking about are considered the top HS age pitchers in Oklahoma by the entire scouting community.
That said the depth of talent in Southern California is well recognized every year in the MLB draft. The number of draft picks and often very early draft picks is well documented. There's not much to argue about when it comes to that.
Even at that, we don't have (that other player) ranked so high because of what he did in high school. He has created quite a buzz in the scouting community by playing coast to coast against the best possible competition in the country with wood bats. And he has been an absolute animal at those events.
No one is saying your son isn't deserving of more recognition. It's always possible he could be one of the best. I think it's the approach that people disagree with. As far as rankings, we like to think we are the best. However, I assure you that we have been wrong many times and we will be wrong many more times. Everyone who evaluates talent makes mistakes and will admit it, that includes college coaches and MLB scouting departments.
Also I think you mentioned something about a PM. Sorry if I didn't remember, I really get lots of those and can't keep up with all of them.
I understand that you mentioned the other kid as being great while doing the comparison. You did not cut him down at all or I'd be the first to get POed. You were simply trying to describe your sons ability. Personally I think that is the wrong approach. Then again remember that I have been wrong many times before. I also think you might be getting a bit too defensive here, but that too is your decision. Heck I get that way myself at times.
Stick around and you will find lots of good people, who post here, pulling for your son. Even those who might disagree with you now. Lots of people who have already gone through what you are experiencing and will experience. They understand how stressful these things can be at times.
We hear from parents arguing about rankings and grades all the time. Sometimes they have legitimate points. But we have seen a lot... We have seen great scouts who can pick out talent in a heartbeat, but they can't evaluate their own son accurately. We know who a parents favorite player is. We also tell players to never be satisfied with what they have accomplished. Satisfaction is a baseball players biggest enemy! Maybe it's a parents worst enemy as well.
Most important is to let rankings do whatever they do. Maybe the right approach is to go about proving them wrong. I love to see kids prove us wrong, it's not an insult at all because we know we will be wrong or miss kids at times.
Best of luck to your son and to you too.
Sorry if you think I was slighting baseball in your area. We had two Oklahoma HS pitchers on the Aflac team this year and they are both ranked very high in the 2011 class. We know of a few more current Oklahoma HS pitchers who are outstanding. All of those pitchers played on summer club teams rather than, or in addition to, legion or HS ball. Doesn't necessarily make them better, just much more visible.
I will go out on a limb and say the pitchers I'm talking about are considered the top HS age pitchers in Oklahoma by the entire scouting community.
That said the depth of talent in Southern California is well recognized every year in the MLB draft. The number of draft picks and often very early draft picks is well documented. There's not much to argue about when it comes to that.
Even at that, we don't have (that other player) ranked so high because of what he did in high school. He has created quite a buzz in the scouting community by playing coast to coast against the best possible competition in the country with wood bats. And he has been an absolute animal at those events.
No one is saying your son isn't deserving of more recognition. It's always possible he could be one of the best. I think it's the approach that people disagree with. As far as rankings, we like to think we are the best. However, I assure you that we have been wrong many times and we will be wrong many more times. Everyone who evaluates talent makes mistakes and will admit it, that includes college coaches and MLB scouting departments.
Also I think you mentioned something about a PM. Sorry if I didn't remember, I really get lots of those and can't keep up with all of them.
I understand that you mentioned the other kid as being great while doing the comparison. You did not cut him down at all or I'd be the first to get POed. You were simply trying to describe your sons ability. Personally I think that is the wrong approach. Then again remember that I have been wrong many times before. I also think you might be getting a bit too defensive here, but that too is your decision. Heck I get that way myself at times.
Stick around and you will find lots of good people, who post here, pulling for your son. Even those who might disagree with you now. Lots of people who have already gone through what you are experiencing and will experience. They understand how stressful these things can be at times.
We hear from parents arguing about rankings and grades all the time. Sometimes they have legitimate points. But we have seen a lot... We have seen great scouts who can pick out talent in a heartbeat, but they can't evaluate their own son accurately. We know who a parents favorite player is. We also tell players to never be satisfied with what they have accomplished. Satisfaction is a baseball players biggest enemy! Maybe it's a parents worst enemy as well.
Most important is to let rankings do whatever they do. Maybe the right approach is to go about proving them wrong. I love to see kids prove us wrong, it's not an insult at all because we know we will be wrong or miss kids at times.
Best of luck to your son and to you too.
quote:Originally posted by standup:
Again you read the post from Swampboy whose brain is the only thing that evaporated. He couldn't find his from page 8 so I have to assist another pundit into the light by providing links to college rosters.Every pitcher I mentioned is as represented. Have you ever heard of the USABF?
In Swampboys response to you, nowhere was he personally insulting the way you seem to respond to anyone who doesn't agree with you.
What is this penchant you have to retaliating like an 11 year old to adult conversation?
I have a tip for you. If you wouldn't say something face to face to the person you are speaking to, don't say it on a message board either. You are acting like a spoiled brat, who, when he doesn't get people to agree with him, lashes out in anger with insults and derision.
Lets just hope the kid is humble.
I have read the entire thread. I admit that I am new to this site. But what I have read is a bit disheartening. Although standup jr. already has interest from D1 schools, Standup is complaining that jr. is not ranked??? Really??? Thousands of kids would kill just to be noticed by ANY school (DIII NAIA, JUCO, whatever). Who gives a flying you know what whether the kid is ranked. He's clearly a very good player (based on what I read) and apparently will have no problem whatsoever finding a place somewhere, likely D1. IMHO, standup should stop worrying about rankings (even if standup is correct in his/her views) and just be extremely happy with jr's obvious talent and success. A ranking a ballplayer does not make.
2013,
As MidloDad pointed out, there is a legitimate benefit to having a favorable ranking. I can certainly see why someone would pursue it.
On the other hand, there are poor reasons for desiring a high ranking, as you have pointed out.
While I understand your opinion that people should just be happy that their son is desired, I can't blame anyone for wanting to raise their sons exposure or profile to better their opportunities for baseball and life.
In my sons case, a favorable evaluation at a minor showcase opened up the recruiting floodgates. Sometimes little things mean a lot.
As MidloDad pointed out, there is a legitimate benefit to having a favorable ranking. I can certainly see why someone would pursue it.
On the other hand, there are poor reasons for desiring a high ranking, as you have pointed out.
While I understand your opinion that people should just be happy that their son is desired, I can't blame anyone for wanting to raise their sons exposure or profile to better their opportunities for baseball and life.
In my sons case, a favorable evaluation at a minor showcase opened up the recruiting floodgates. Sometimes little things mean a lot.
I think we have all assisted in the success of standup's original plan......his goal was to have his son noticed by Perfect Game. I think his mission is accomplished. 
quote:Originally posted by cheapseats:
I think we have all assisted in the success of standup's original plan......his goal was to have his son noticed by Perfect Game. I think his mission is accomplished.
I don't have any evidence that there was that much forethought put into his effort.
CPLZ i understand your point and I agree to an extent. It just seems that standup is too consumed with the ranking. By way of example, 2013 son is a good ball player, but certainly not a PG 9 or 10, not to mention a ranked player. We are going to attend Underclass Showcase in St. Pete in December. We shall see how he rates. But whatever it is, I'll be ok with it, because I will know he did all he could, and if that means he gets a 6, so be it. You won't find me here complaining that my son did this better and that better than some kid who got an 8. I understand "standing up" for your son is an honorable thing, but you can go too far to the point you lose credibility. I truly wish standup jr all the success in the world, as I do every jr. here on this site.
quote:Originally posted by 2013 Dad:
CPLZ i understand your point and I agree to an extent. It just seems that standup is too consumed with the ranking. By way of example, 2013 son is a good ball player, but certainly not a PG 9 or 10, not to mention a ranked player. We are going to attend Underclass Showcase in St. Pete in December. We shall see how he rates. But whatever it is, I'll be ok with it, because I will know he did all he could, and if that means he gets a 6, so be it. You won't find me here complaining that my son did this better and that better than some kid who got an 8. I understand "standing up" for your son is an honorable thing, but you can go too far to the point you lose credibility. I truly wish standup jr all the success in the world, as I do every jr. here on this site.
2013, I think the problem most see here is that standup's kid has not attended any PG showcases. And from the looks of it, only attended one PG event - the Jupiter event. Most people here are saying that if you want a true evaluation and possibly a ranking, get the player in front of those who make those decisions. He should attend a PG showcase and get himself on a team that plays in more high profile events. To be noticed, you have to get in front of those whose notice will matter.
bballman,
I completely agree with that statement. Hence, 2013 Son going to St. Pete in December
I completely agree with that statement. Hence, 2013 Son going to St. Pete in December
Good choice. I think if your kid is any good at all and aspires to play at the next level, at least one PG showcase is in order. Good luck to your son!!
Get good grades, play and work hard on your baseball skills. Go to some showcases and college camps and forget about rankings.....don't fall into the ego quagmire of comparing players. There is always someone bigger, faster, stronger, smarter or better looking.
Most of us that visit this site daily & regularly know the feedback and advice is excellent and honest. This thread was no exception. PG, you did your best! This was a very interesting read with way too much drama...definetly memorable. I really hope the OP will follow through with the advice given, because his son appears to have talent.
It reminded me of quote about statistics I read not too long ago: "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts—for support rather than for illumination."
It reminded me of quote about statistics I read not too long ago: "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts—for support rather than for illumination."
My son is a 2012 kid. His stats do not fly off the page. He has plus power. He had a great summer, and has been playing scout ball this fall also. He just accepted a verbal offer to a D1 program. We learned a lot in the process. I firmly believe it is not about stats and rankings, it is what that particular college coach is looking for in that specific recruiting class. They have holes to fill, and our son happend to fit perfectly. They really look at attitude, work ethic and grades - and is your son projectable.
Keep swinging it...
Keep swinging it...
quote:Originally posted by fenwaysouth:
It reminded me of quote about statistics I read not too long ago: "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts—for support rather than for illumination."
Outstanding!
A kid from our HS conference was at one of those pitcher's bootcamps with my son a couple weeks ago. His HS stats last season as a junior pitcher weren't very good. ERA, WHIP, K/9, you name it.
He and my son long tossed at the camp and I saw the kid do some throwing drills into a net. That was it. The kid is in the 2011 CA draft rankings. It was clear that he deserves to be in the rankings. I can't tell you if he's going to be a successful HS pitcher in the Marmonte league this coming season, but I can tell you he's got serious potential and the scouts will be showing up at his games.
Stats mean very little.
He and my son long tossed at the camp and I saw the kid do some throwing drills into a net. That was it. The kid is in the 2011 CA draft rankings. It was clear that he deserves to be in the rankings. I can't tell you if he's going to be a successful HS pitcher in the Marmonte league this coming season, but I can tell you he's got serious potential and the scouts will be showing up at his games.
Stats mean very little.
i would echo Sdlefty's comments for Chinny Jr. He will sign early next week with DII who has had him on their watch list since 2008. Never have they asked for stats, nor have we offered them. Jr. did go to a PG Showcase- but did not particularly stand out at it. I have know way of knowing whether the DII ever logged on to PG to check him out. They liked mechanics, size, and upside potential (and grades were not going to be and issue). He did go to DII's evaluation camp this summer and performed well. Bottom line, someone has to NEED a player, they have to LIKE what they have SEEN of that player, and the payer has to feel it is a goo FIT for him.
Stats even at the college level are really not a good judge of a kid's ability and do not tell the whole story. It is really a moot point if the kid can't make grades in the fall- because he will never see the field come Spring! Every year top recruits end up inelligible due to academic reasons...But they had might impressive stats back in the sophmore year in High School! What does it matter?
Stats even at the college level are really not a good judge of a kid's ability and do not tell the whole story. It is really a moot point if the kid can't make grades in the fall- because he will never see the field come Spring! Every year top recruits end up inelligible due to academic reasons...But they had might impressive stats back in the sophmore year in High School! What does it matter?
I've kept my mouth shut the remainder of this thread and decided it'd be best to be an onlooker rather than getting involved. I've learned a lot from everyone who has posted here. As a college player who is looking at his future and possibly considering going into some sort of coaching aspect, this sort of thread helps get a gauge of what some things coaches deal with everyday are out there
quote:Originally posted by standup:
b]What are recommendations for non ranked players becoming ranked?[/b]
I have to agree with cheapseats, there was a purpose to the OP's topic. The question could have been asked without all of the links, and standup already knew from other topics the value of attending PG events.
Early signing is just around the corner, I sense some frustration from startup that there just hasn't been enough interest. I asked a question twice and never received an answer. With all these unbeleivable tournaments, were these events not attended by scouts, coaches to watch players? Are these really events that bring those that the player needed to be in front of?
I know there is talent in OK, the cards 2007 first pick is from OK, along with other players from there as well. True the depth isn't there, but there is talent. I don't hink that anyone was disputing that fact and giving info on other players, IMO is just meaningless.
For parents just setting out on the recruiting road, lots of good stuff here, lots of do's and do not's, most I am sure can figure it out for themselves. In our case, attending a perfect game showcase was not about achieveing a high ranking or rating. My opinion is that what is important is what the player learns and takes away from the experience to improve his game, even the 9 and 10's have something to learn about themselves and what to work on. If you approach it with that in mind, and not worry about where your son is ranked, your experience will be so much more pleasant then eating your heart out that there are other players out there who are touted as better and yours hits better, pitches better, plays better competition, etc., etc.
Remember, it's not how we view our players, but how others view them and how they view themselves and I am pretty sure most couldn't care less about most (ratings, rankings, stats) of what we do.
TPM
You have flushed me out of retirement.
As he kindly acknowledged I originally posed my question to PGSTAFF privately twice about a week apart but unknowingly did so at a time that was understandably inconvenient for him. Had it been a more convenient time the post would have never been made.
. Around here nobody even considers early signing for guys that just entered their junior year in high school. Even the recent Marlins MLB draftee Realmuto didn’t commit to OSU until the fall of his senior year as everyone does locally.
Sorry I didn’t answer your repeated question. I guess I missed it while attempting to address the 50 or 60 posts. As for the tournaments played in my son doesn’t pick them and just goes as part of the team. He is fortunate his coach makes a great schedule. I have met a couple of juco coaches at those events that told me they thought he could play and gave me their card and later reviewed his videos before calling me to express verbal interest. No tournaments compare to PG’s visibility from what I’ve seen. Though it is no big deal 29 college coaches have been in communication with my son including a half dozen personal emails and phone calls. You can see on his page that 62 coaches have viewed his profile and they all send questionnaires and camp invitations. At his favorite D1 School, he loves the coaches and they seem to really like him. I have never met them and stay out of the way. They have seen him almost every week this fall when he was not traveling.
I have been positive about all of the players mentioned and they were mentioned only because another poster questioned the quality of the pitching.
When I see undrafted guys like Brendan McCurry from Roff Oklahoma hit 130 homeruns in high school including 47 in 72 games and play for the Elk City Travelers with an ERA of 1.01 and twice as many extra base hits as strikeouts in a season, I have no illusions about my son’s (or most anyone’s) future in baseball but that’s what he loves to do and its taught him a lot of good life lessons.
It is pretty obvious to me that a PG ranking is valuable to a player, particularly if they develop to the point they are draft quality at the end of high school. Like many have said it’s not what you do but what they see u do and the endorsement of the most respected scouting service is a huge deal even if some guys can make it without it. The flip side is even with it you have to perform or it doesn’t matter. By the way, there is a PG nationally ranked 2011 player on his own team that my son beat out at 3rd base and I guess if I had made the comparison with him I would have had to add the other two returning senior players to the comparison because between the 3 of them combined had no homeruns and about a third of his extra-base hits in the same 28 games. But we all know now that is not what is important though it does explain my question on rankings.
You have flushed me out of retirement.
As he kindly acknowledged I originally posed my question to PGSTAFF privately twice about a week apart but unknowingly did so at a time that was understandably inconvenient for him. Had it been a more convenient time the post would have never been made.
. Around here nobody even considers early signing for guys that just entered their junior year in high school. Even the recent Marlins MLB draftee Realmuto didn’t commit to OSU until the fall of his senior year as everyone does locally.
Sorry I didn’t answer your repeated question. I guess I missed it while attempting to address the 50 or 60 posts. As for the tournaments played in my son doesn’t pick them and just goes as part of the team. He is fortunate his coach makes a great schedule. I have met a couple of juco coaches at those events that told me they thought he could play and gave me their card and later reviewed his videos before calling me to express verbal interest. No tournaments compare to PG’s visibility from what I’ve seen. Though it is no big deal 29 college coaches have been in communication with my son including a half dozen personal emails and phone calls. You can see on his page that 62 coaches have viewed his profile and they all send questionnaires and camp invitations. At his favorite D1 School, he loves the coaches and they seem to really like him. I have never met them and stay out of the way. They have seen him almost every week this fall when he was not traveling.
I have been positive about all of the players mentioned and they were mentioned only because another poster questioned the quality of the pitching.
When I see undrafted guys like Brendan McCurry from Roff Oklahoma hit 130 homeruns in high school including 47 in 72 games and play for the Elk City Travelers with an ERA of 1.01 and twice as many extra base hits as strikeouts in a season, I have no illusions about my son’s (or most anyone’s) future in baseball but that’s what he loves to do and its taught him a lot of good life lessons.
It is pretty obvious to me that a PG ranking is valuable to a player, particularly if they develop to the point they are draft quality at the end of high school. Like many have said it’s not what you do but what they see u do and the endorsement of the most respected scouting service is a huge deal even if some guys can make it without it. The flip side is even with it you have to perform or it doesn’t matter. By the way, there is a PG nationally ranked 2011 player on his own team that my son beat out at 3rd base and I guess if I had made the comparison with him I would have had to add the other two returning senior players to the comparison because between the 3 of them combined had no homeruns and about a third of his extra-base hits in the same 28 games. But we all know now that is not what is important though it does explain my question on rankings.
quote:Originally posted by standup:
By the way, there is a PG nationally ranked 2011 player on his own team that my son beat out at 3rd base and I guess if I had made the comparison with him I would have had to add the other two returning senior players to the comparison because between the 3 of them combined had no homeruns and about a third of his extra-base hits in the same 28 games. But we all know now that is not what is important though it does explain my question on rankings.
I realize you aren't looking for advice anymore, however, I want to caution you about making negative comments or comparisons to your son's current HS teammates. Downgrading teammates stats or skills (even if your comments are 100% true) to build your son up is unwise.
As others have mentioned...the baseball circles are very, very small. It would be very easy for these comments to get back to your sons teammates, their parents or to one of the 8 baseball coaches at EMHS, neither of which would be helpful for your son's HS baseball season. I saw this very scenario play out in the Texas forum a few years ago and it was very public and left some hard feelings between dads of players on the same HS team.
As other have mentioned, let your sons play speak for itself...
There is a whole world of wonderful high school base ball players that don't ever hit a homerun or have many extra-base hits. In fact the majority don't. There are very, very few high school players that have more extra-base hits than strikeouts. The great thing is all your friends and coaches that have known u for years aren't offended if you score 40 points per game in basketball or a third of the team's runs in baseball and they would be the first ones to acknowledge the reality of that.
Yep, your right, I don't even know why they let the other 4 players out on the basketball court or the other 8 players out on the baseball field. 
standup,
I know a few kids who were injured, didn't get along with their coach, were young for their grade, etc. and didn't put up all that great of stats in HS. They were ranked by PG and went on to do well in college or pro ball. Do you realize you are insulting those kids with your comparisons?
I know a few kids who were injured, didn't get along with their coach, were young for their grade, etc. and didn't put up all that great of stats in HS. They were ranked by PG and went on to do well in college or pro ball. Do you realize you are insulting those kids with your comparisons?