Development plan for undersized players

My son's high school second base teammate was 5'6". But he was strong as hell for his size. He was also fast. He hit the ball hard. He got under a couple senior year and hit them out. He played JuCo for a couple of years before deciding college wasn't his thing.

The kid loved baseball so much he quit soccer, his best sport to have more time to work out.

If your oldest is 6'1" might your younger son also sprout up?

We played against a team this summer who had a phenomenal second baseman who was under 5' tall on a 14U team.  We've seen him before and I'm fairly certain he is just very, very short in stature, versus much younger.  Still, his skills at 2nd made him stand out.

@RJM posted:

My son's high school second base teammate was 5'6". But he was strong as hell for his size. He was also fast. He hit the ball hard. He got under a couple senior year and hit them out. He played JuCo for a couple of years before deciding college wasn't his thing.

The kid loved baseball so much he quit soccer, his best sport to have more time to work out.

If you're not a pitcher, the key for most getting on the HS field is being able to hit. My son's HS has some smaller kids in JV with great contact skills but they didn't get to varsity until they could drive the ball.

11 might be a little young to be thinking beyond HS, truthfully I'd hoped my son would see the field in HS, but you don't really know until they get a bit older.  

My son was 5’4” in 8th grade and 14u. He was 5’11” 135 by the following spring. He played at 6’2” 190 in college.

I wouldn't worry about the physical development of an 11 year old. Eat well, train well and teach him good fundamentals, you will see how the rest shakes out in 2-3 years.

Also if your older son got to 6"1 190 why do you think your little kid will stay small?

Like most HS kids he probably will need to gain some weight but I wouldn't worry about how his height develops.

If he really stays short he needs to be a good hitter, have some speed and arm to play all over the infield and have at least enough strength to hit it consistently out of the infield and ideally into the gaps for doubles, maybe even some homers.

Hitting is always number 1, if you can hit for average you have some baseline usefulness for the coach and if you add some power that's even better.

You also need good legs because at well under 6 ft you are unlikely to play 1b or DH and ideally an arm that allows you to play other infield positions than second base.

Although there are also exceptions to this, temarr Johnson is short with a fringy arm and defense and he got drafted top 5 because he has excellent hit tool and good power for his height. But ideally you have the arm for all infield spots.

In short he should develop all his tools, hit, speed, arm, fielding and some strength/power - but really that is something that applies to almost every player.

Sure it probably isn't the best idea to make him 5'9, 210 but that's not super likely to happen anyway so just focus on getting more athletic and a better ball player.

@DroppedStrikeThree posted:

What have you seen work? My youngest (11 YO) is small now and almost certain to stay that way. Yes, weight room, nutrition, and all that when the time comes. We feel Ike we have a decent handle on that from trial and error with my first who is now 6’1 195 at 17.

I’m curious what others have seen work for undersized players who managed to keep playing and have success at high school (and perhaps beyond). Would you recommend focusing on particular aspects of his development knowing he’s likely to always be one of the smaller players on the field?

Thanks.

I agree with others who said they aren't worried much about the weight at that age. Does he have the desire? Does his skill set stand out? Your son will get stronger and heavier just from getting older.  RipkenFanSon always identified as "the little engine that could." I've heard about the mantra "If you are small you have to show you're good." Son and I saw that to an extent. He did have a skill set (elite speed and defense as a MI,  and contact hitter), which caught a collect few eyes along the way. He used to drink milkshakes and has used the protein powder as well.

As for his weight: about 144 beginning of HS, about 160 end of HS, 168-170 playing weight in college, and was 172 at start of pros, though just weighed in at 190 for the first time last week.

Thanks all. My kids are dealing with genetics at two ends of the spectrum - one grandfather is 6’4” and the other is 5’7. My oldest favors the tall side, my youngest is very clearly favoring the small side. My second, non-baseball son is almost done growing and will likely top out at 5’7.

I get that my question is trying to project but I’m also trying to play the odds. I was mostly just curious about what smaller guys that are likely to stay on the smaller side can focus on to maximize their chance to play in high school. The Ripken Fan son model may be the way to go although few are likely to attain those levels.

Thanks.

One of my son's travel teammates is at an ACC that went to regionals last year. He's an extremely confident, positive kid with high energy who gets around the bases once on. Hit .380 his freshman year and walked more than his struck out. Made it impossible for the coach to keep him off the field. He's listed at 5'6".

You lost me at 11 YO

@adbono posted:

You lost me at 11 YO

Right, because a question about how best to prepare to try to play in high school for a kid who might otherwise not get the chance is misguided on the HIGH SCHOOL baseball web.

@DroppedStrikeThree posted:

Right, because a question about how best to prepare to try to play in high school for a kid who might otherwise not get the chance is misguided on the HIGH SCHOOL baseball web.

Alright, can't help myself.....

@adbono isn't attacking you (although it may feel like it) he is just simply stating the truth. That truth is most people need to take the time and smell the dam flowers. It all goes by really, really fast. The best development plan at the age of 11 is making sure to take the kid to get some ice cream. Development will be cultivated by simply playing a game that he loves at a young age. Just make sure he is learning how to deal with both success and failure (this is key in becoming a good person) and it all tends to work itself out at the end. 

Re looking into the future …

I’ve been through the journey with a softball player (the oldest) and a baseball player. Until high school I only looked at what they needed to do this year to succeed and what was on the horizon as the challenge for next year. I couldn’t make them grow any faster than their physical later bloomer mother. I didn’t think about their size. I didn’t think about their summer and late spring birthdays. My daughter eventually grew to 5’10. My son to 6’2”. I’m 6’1”. Their mother is 5’8”.

My kids were talented before high school. But they didn’t grow until 8th grade into freshman year. The varsity softball and baseball coaches were aware of my kid’s athletic ability and softball/baseball potential going back to when they were preteens.

How did I know where my kids belonged in relation to travel ball in high school? First, my son was the last cut from a 6A as a freshman. His play in 16U travel as a 14U eligible caught 17U coach’s eyes. My daughter started in center. She was already in a top travel program playing 16U at fourteen. She was moved up to 18U post freshman summer (not unusual for talented softball players, they physically mature sooner than boys).

My son was approached by 17U teams in travel programs and asked to attend a practice. They weren’t talent tryouts. The coaches were watching how he fit in. Was he cocky or confident? Did he blend with the other players?

There’s a point where others who know start telling you what potential your kids have. Listen to them. They’re objective. Don’t fish in the wrong pond. But, don’t go fishing and don’t worry about it until it’s time.

My comments are not directed to the original poster.  Our society is out of whack.  Name the activity and you'll find a parent driving the ship - pushing according to their own ambition and desires rather than what is best for the child.  I see it in girls sports as well - soccer, gymnastics, ballerina, ice skating, etc.  We see it in the entertainment industry with devastating consequences - Judy Garland, MacCauley Caukin, Rick Shroeder, Karen Carpenter, Michael Jackson etc., etc.  We see it in academics.  Any activity where parents drive their kids to be anything other than a kid in order to fill the parent's own ambition.  In sports, we remember Jimmy Piersol and Todd Marinovich but there are countless others.  To the original poster, let the kid be a kid and simply enjoy baseball.  If he loves it and becomes good at it, he'll be asking you to help him develop someday down the road.  Great players love the game and that is the most important part.

@ClevelandDad posted:

My comments are not directed to the original poster.  Our society is out of whack.  Name the activity and you'll find a parent driving the ship - pushing according to their own ambition and desires rather than what is best for the child.  I see it in girls sports as well - soccer, gymnastics, ballerina, ice skating, etc.  We see it in the entertainment industry with devastating consequences - Judy Garland, MacCauley Caukin, Rick Shroeder, Karen Carpenter, Michael Jackson etc., etc.  We see it in academics.  Any activity where parents drive their kids to be anything other than a kid in order to fill the parent's own ambition.  In sports, we remember Jimmy Piersol and Todd Marinovich but there are countless others.  To the original poster, let the kid be a kid and simply enjoy baseball.  If he loves it and becomes good at it, he'll be asking you to help him develop someday down the road.  Great players love the game and that is the most important part.

When I lived in the Philadelphia area I was introduced to Dr Joel Fish. He founded the Center for Sports Psychology. They work with professional teams and Team USA programs. But, they have a huge individual client base of  individual teen age travel athletes. They’re kids who are being pushed by their parents beyond enjoying the game. One example said she was afraid to quit playing a sport she had come to loathe because her parents had so much time and money invested.

Fish wrote a book, 101 Ways To Be A Terrific Sports Parent. It was actually a self analysis. Despite his profession, as his talented kids hit the teen years he recognized he was becoming “one of those parents.”

I think you asked a pretty innocent question.  So I actually have the opposite situation. My 2023 is undersized 5ft 9(ish) and my 2025 is now 6ft 1.

I think the first kid always has it harder.  Certainly I was that pretty horrible academic/sport parent noted above.  I could recognize very early on that 2023 was athletically gifted.  I didn't play baseball myself but I remember a competition when he was 6 or 7 where the average kid threw the ball something like 50-60 ft and he threw it 120.  So we promoted him playing baseball.   BUT... he also played soccer, basketball, skied, golfed. 

2025 has only wanted to play baseball since he was little.  He would play one season of football, basketball, soccer and then want to quit.  So we let him.  I think that was the wrong thing to do.  He doesn't move as fluidly as 2023 despite being pretty athletic also.  I think different sports prior to age 13 or so is important in preventing burnout, injury, and developing athleticism.  So there is some sort of balance between just "letting a kid be a kid" and giving some directed guidance. 

2023 has always been able to hit, even with my crappy no-knowledge dad instruction.  I think you should have an honest assessment of that tool if you are thinking high school or college baseball.  If he's small, he better be one of the top 2 hitters on any youth team he is on.  There are some youth ball kids who were weaker hitters than him who also ended up committing but they almost all grew to be pretty big players.  And I think almost all of them ended up at the same level (D2), or D3/NAIA.   Almost every position player I can think of who went D1 had the same hit tool or better as a youth... but ended up bigger.   The interesting corollary is that so many dominant 12 year olds end up pretty meh as HS players and don't make it to college ball.  I always wonder why that happens.  I suspect it is a combination of stopped growing, became complacent, and some intangible parenting component. 

I would not worry about the size currently.  I would make sure he 1)  is having fun 2) is developing the discipline to be a high school/college player (ie. daily t-work, exercise etc.) and 3) learns the basic fundamentals to develop a high baseball IQ.

My 2015 was a late bloomer. I guided him to focus on what he can control and not worry about what he can't control.

I have a lightly recruited (for college) undersized 2023.  His coaches said that his size hurt him recruiting wise.  So I understand the concern.  However, the short answer is the development plan for undersized players is the same as the development plan for normal sized players and for oversized players.  You teach all the same fundamentals, and make sure they have fun (esp at 11 yrs old).  For my son, I think his size has helped his work ethic and it forced him to work harder on his fundamentals and technique as he can't overcome bad fundamentals and technique with his size/strength.  From that standpoint, I think his smaller size is a blessing.

@ReluctantO'sFan posted:

Alright, can't help myself.....

@adbono isn't attacking you (although it may feel like it) he is just simply stating the truth. That truth is most people need to take the time and smell the dam flowers. It all goes by really, really fast. The best development plan at the age of 11 is making sure to take the kid to get some ice cream. Development will be cultivated by simply playing a game that he loves at a young age. Just make sure he is learning how to deal with both success and failure (this is key in becoming a good person) and it all tends to work itself out at the end.

Well stated. Thank you for the assist. I have been traveling today and didn’t have time to offer any details.

Thanks for all the responses. Let me try one more time. Here’s the situation I have in mind and part of what prompted the question. I coached a 12u Cooperstown team several years ago. Had a player on the team who was the most fun loving kid, loved baseball, and was probably the best athlete on the team. He was also the smallest. His older brother was a successful high school player. When size became increasingly an issue - as it does during the years from 12-15 - he stopped having as much fun and eventually quit playing and picked up lacrosse. I’ve asked myself many times over the years whether more could have been done to keep him playing to the point when size eventually evened out a bit (he’s still small in high school but less so) so he had a better chance against his peers. I’ve seen too many kids wash out during the transition to the “big field” years and so I was looking for guidance to maybe, just maybe get a nugget or two that would me help my kid keep playing baseball and be ready for high school when that times come  

I think making sure your kid loves the game is the key, whether it is extra reps through instructors, going to camps, buying silly baseball tsotchkes, etc...you know it will become real work in a blink and without passion as a foundation, it almost never works out. I certainly tested my oldest kid's love of the game using both fair and often unfair tactics. My youngest retired at age 11 and played other sports and as a HS Soph decided to just specialize in his favorite sport football...wife and I cringe at every collision.

"looking for guidance to maybe, just maybe get a nugget or two that would me help my kid keep playing baseball and be ready for high school when that times come".

I suspect that kid you used as an example was a great athlete but not a great hitter?  Hitting = fun.  Work on the process of getting better at that rather than results.  Perfectionism and excessive focus on outcomes leads to burnout and killing of joy.  My 2023 ran into his share of slumps, some from being overpowered, which he had to learn to overcome.  Also he ultimately looked at the travel team snubs because of his size at age 13-15 as a challenge and competes with a bit of a chip on his shoulder. 

So perhaps that.  Focus on the process of learning the art of hitting. With plenty of praise.  But boy those teen years are hard for EVERYONE, filled with landmines, and unpredictable. 

@DroppedStrikeThree posted:

Thanks for all the responses. Let me try one more time. Here’s the situation I have in mind and part of what prompted the question. I coached a 12u Cooperstown team several years ago. Had a player on the team who was the most fun loving kid, loved baseball, and was probably the best athlete on the team. He was also the smallest. His older brother was a successful high school player. When size became increasingly an issue - as it does during the years from 12-15 - he stopped having as much fun and eventually quit playing and picked up lacrosse.

This is when most players leave the sport - when they get to the big field. The big kids are no longer big, the bombs over everybody's heads are caught, the doubles are now long singles. The little guys with speed are no longer beating out ground balls to short, stealing bases, etc. The smaller guys with weaker arms are making a lot of errors.

People complain about 9-10u baseball. I've always thought the first year on the big field was the toughest to watch. I think that's when the kids start to think they're not that good and they'd rather do something else where they aren't going to go 0-3 with an error every time. It's not that they're not good, they just need time to adjust and unfortunately 13-15 is a time where you'd rather be doing to cool easy thing than struggle to get better.

So my son is 14 and was never big. He might be a hair under 5'7" right now  and will probably grow only a few more inches if he is lucky. He's about 6 months older than most of his friends so he is temporarily enjoying being tallish but has always been small up to this point. He's been a grinder since the beginning always worked really hard and his passion for the game continues to grow.  He is not a super star but  definitely has the ability to play in HS according to his coaches. One thing that kept him going is playing with his friends in the community on the local town team, little league and ms school ball. While not very competitive it provided more reps and was very fun for him. He also has excelled there which give him the confidence to persevere when he hit the big field last year.  He struggled a bit with hitting and throwing out runners as a catcher initially when he joined a tournament team last summer and started playing better competition in our region. The success locally helped fuel the belief he could compete and he ended having a successful season on the better team.

I continue to let him do both as we realize while he's a good hitter with good bat speed it's unclear whether his other metrics and size will make him college material. I want him to enjoy his time playing and build memories.

I do feel like I may have  overemphasized size to him when he was younger and if I could turn back the clock I would never talk to him about the big tall kids that could hit the ball a mile at 12U ever again. At the time I stupidly thought I was making him feel better because he used to be self conscious about being a contact hitter and not hitting home runs.

There was a kid on my son's travel team who is very small, probably a late bloomer who will not grow to be very tall. He is an incredible athlete, good glove, fast and a great lead off batter with a wonderful attitude. I know he spends a great deal of time on speed, agility and strength training and has for years and it shows. He has really maximized his gifts and will continue to do so. He can compete with the big boys and always has.

One last thought think about the people you surround your son with for training. Are they positive, tough but encouraging? A few of my sons coaches over the years were not very big. A fair amount of them have played college ball and done well there so he has role models to look up to.

The most important thing for any kid to do in the time before they hit a 60/90 field is to develop a love for the game. Have fun. Play a lot of positions. And play a lot of other sports. From a baseball perspective, what a kid accomplishes on the smaller fields is not necessarily a predictor of future success on the big field. That’s why I cringe every time I hear a parent quote stats and/or metrics on an 11 year old (or younger) player. That stuff is meaningless. Literally. Overall athleticism is much more important than stats at 10u. In the years leading up to jr/sr year of HS the most important thing is the development of the overall athlete. Once that is well underway it usually becomes obvious what sport (or sports) any particular kid is best suited for. And it’s usually clear where the passion lies (or not) also.

I agree that you have to develop a love of baseball sufficient to WANT to put in the work and put up with the aggravations.

As for dropping out, maybe a player doesn't particularly like the other kids who are headed for the HS baseball team, or maybe he doesn't want to spend the time doing the work that is expected for the HS team.  Maybe your lacrosse kid didn't want to compete with his brother.  Sure, failure because of smaller size at age 14 might be part of that - getting ragged on by those kids, or feeling inferior to them.  However, my oldest son was very successful at baseball before 14, but quit at HS because of some of those factors; his best friends all played ultimate frisbee.

@2022NYC posted:

I think making sure your kid loves the game is the key, whether it is extra reps through instructors, going to camps, buying silly baseball tsotchkes, etc...you know it will become real work in a blink and without passion as a foundation, it almost never works out. I certainly tested my oldest kid's love of the game using both fair and often unfair tactics. My youngest retired at age 11 and played other sports and as a HS Soph decided to just specialize in his favorite sport football...wife and I cringe at every collision.

My son played football in middle school. He was 5'4" 120 in 8th grade. He played slot receiver on offense and safety on defense. One game the opposing DE was 6'3" 230. The kid "grew up" to play at Pitt. The idea was to double team him with the tackle and my son. He tossed both around like a rag dolls for the entire game. After the game my son said he did everything possible to stop him short of biting him.

It was a hard game to watch him from a physical standpoint. It was like watching the big guy toss furniture out of the way. I was relieved when my son was on defense at safety.

@PABaseball posted:

This is when most players leave the sport - when they get to the big field. The big kids are no longer big, the bombs over everybody's heads are caught, the doubles are now long singles. The little guys with speed are no longer beating out ground balls to short, stealing bases, etc. The smaller guys with weaker arms are making a lot of errors.

People complain about 9-10u baseball. I've always thought the first year on the big field was the toughest to watch. I think that's when the kids start to think they're not that good and they'd rather do something else where they aren't going to go 0-3 with an error every time. It's not that they're not good, they just need time to adjust and unfortunately 13-15 is a time where you'd rather be doing to cool easy thing than struggle to get better.

My 13u team was top three in the region. They all became high school stars and went on to college ball at some level. I still thought 13u was slow motion baseball. The game really speeded up at 14u as most of them had reached puberty.

Just glad that no one said "reclass him".  Believe it or not, I got some of that from some baseball dads around me regarding my son.  We put my son in school 1 year early so he is actually reclassed 1 yr higher up (athletics was not even in our considerations when we put him in school).  Most told me to at least reclass him to his age level, while some even told me to reclass him 2 years down (1 yr below his age level).

At 11,  feed him good healthy meals, including his broccoli and Keep him active.  In most cases, not much done before puberty works  in terms of where he'll benefit from it after puberty, beyond building healthy habits.  In the meantime, nothing stimulates growth like proper nutrition.

When my son was 13 he was introduced to working out for baseball as part of his club's program, it was only 1 day a week, but during that time he developed a real enjoyment of it.  He wouldn't hit puberty for another 2 years so it didn't do much as far as building muscle.  For a 13u team, most of the kids goofed around but my son was often praised for his focus and dedication.  That told me he would have the work ethic to keep up with it because he enjoyed it.  The next year he worked out at home and the year after that he joined a baseball specific training program. He was extra motivated that year by not making his JV team freshman year, he vowed that wouldn't happen again.  I think though, if he hadn't ended up as a baseball player, he would still  be going to the gym every day, as he enjoyed it that much.

Your sons brother's size can also be a motivator as he can see that his genetics have the potential and it's not a forgone conclusion he's always going to be small and therefore motivation to keep at it.  If he has a setback just let him know he'll get bigger so just keep working and his time will come.

But I do think better to wait until he's closer to the goal before it's about getting better for hS baseball.  If there is a similar introductory class or program to simply introduce him to working out correctly, (and I liked that my son's was only one day a week at that age), it can be a great barometer before there is any pressure on a kid to work towards a goal so far out.  But that class should be age appropriate and focus on technique, stability and healthy development for overhead athletes, etc.

Do not sign him up for some family CrossFit program or go with anyone that brings up doing it in order to keep up or he'll fall behind, the trainer should be stressing the reasons for the class are developing healthy athletes and lifelong enjoyment.

@atlnon posted:

Just glad that no one said "reclass him".  Believe it or not, I got some of that from some baseball dads around me regarding my son.  We put my son in school 1 year early so he is actually reclassed 1 yr higher up (athletics was not even in our considerations when we put him in school).  Most told me to at least reclass him to his age level, while some even told me to reclass him 2 years down (1 yr below his age level).

Or... The dad i know who shot up his kid w growth hormone for 3 years..

@PABaseball posted:

This is when most players leave the sport - when they get to the big field. The big kids are no longer big, the bombs over everybody's heads are caught, the doubles are now long singles. The little guys with speed are no longer beating out ground balls to short, stealing bases, etc. The smaller guys with weaker arms are making a lot of errors.

People complain about 9-10u baseball. I've always thought the first year on the big field was the toughest to watch. I think that's when the kids start to think they're not that good and they'd rather do something else where they aren't going to go 0-3 with an error every time. It's not that they're not good, they just need time to adjust and unfortunately 13-15 is a time where you'd rather be doing to cool easy thing than struggle to get better.

I just wanted to comment on this.  I think a huge issue and reason kids give up at 13, thinking they aren't good on the big field is the age levels of baseball now.  When you used to play in leagues that had 13-15yo, you knew coming in you were smaller and couldn't make that throw from third to first in time or hit bombs much beyond the infield.  But you had kids on your team who could.  Just like when you were in LL at 10 playing with 11 and 12yo.  You learned from them and played your 3.5 innings and one at bat a game while playing 2nd, 1st or the outfield.  You learned to wait your turn till you got older.  The baseball wasn't bad because the older kids were there to handle the pitching, catching, third and shortstop.  And you didn't feel bad because you don't move from your 12u team to 13u team in your existing travel program because they can find bigger kids .

If you got 3-4 hits in a season off mostly 15yo pitcher's your were awesome and if you didn't, he was a 15yo, so that's why.  You learned to deal with failure.

You didn't quit because everyone was in your shoes and coaches, parents and teammates didn't expect you to play like Varsity HS right away or get frustrated watching a game of all 13u's with the walks, passed balls, errors, and bad throws.  

I was one of four players given an exception to make LL at nine. LL was normally 10-12. I was scared to death facing the larger 12yos who threw 70. We didn’t have minimum playing time. I only played ten of eighteen games. When I was twelve I was the pitcher, along with two others no one wanted to face. We just had to wait our turn to have our day.

I barely played at nine. I got ten at bats. I struck out most of them. But I wore my LL hat like a badge of honor. I got my reps playing all day long in pickup games at the field. No one told me my footwork or arm angle were wrong. I figured it out with trial and error.

Bats were about whomever had one. We didn’t worry about weight and size. Bat too big? Choke up. All bats were wood. If we all had broken bats screws and tape worked until the next trip to the mom and pop sporting goods store. In LL we used the bats in the bat bag.

@atlnon posted:

Just glad that no one said "reclass him".  Believe it or not, I got some of that from some baseball dads around me regarding my son.  We put my son in school 1 year early so he is actually reclassed 1 yr higher up (athletics was not even in our considerations when we put him in school).  Most told me to at least reclass him to his age level, while some even told me to reclass him 2 years down (1 yr below his age level).

Good for you atinon. A college teammate of my son's was a year younger (I think he skipped 10th grade). He was drafted after he graduated from college.  I guess the only disadvantage, was he was the last on the team to turn 21!